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  • Cailin Mac Kinnach
    Hey guys, I have a noobish question that I never thought of before. I know that red belts aren t specifically reserved for squires, as the only belt reserved
    Message 1 of 18 , Jun 7, 2011
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      Hey guys, I have a noobish question that I never thought of before.

      I know that red belts aren't specifically reserved for squires, as the
      only belt reserved in corpa is the white belt of chivalry. That being
      said, generally, the only people I ever see wearing red belts is guys
      that are squires.

      I'm looking into a plaque belt with enamaled peweter plaques in red
      and white, as those are both my colors, and aethelmearc's colors. They
      would look awesome set on a red belt, but i was wondering if I'd cause
      no end of grief for myself by mounting them to a belt of red leather.

      If so, I can go with a dark brown, or maybe a black.

      Cheers!

      Cailin
    • Judith Winner
      I think that going with a black ground (black belt) would make the red and white plaques pop better. Nothing like making a great visual impact. That and
      Message 2 of 18 , Jun 7, 2011
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        I think that going with a black ground (black belt) would make the red and white
        plaques "pop" better. Nothing like making a great visual impact.

        That and while it's true that only the white belt is reserved by Corpora, you'd
        catch no end of grief going against custom.

        Finnseach
        Midrealm

        On 6/7/2011 5:10 PM, Cailin Mac Kinnach wrote:
        > Hey guys, I have a noobish question that I never thought of before.
        >
        > I know that red belts aren't specifically reserved for squires, as the
        > only belt reserved in corpa is the white belt of chivalry. That being
        > said, generally, the only people I ever see wearing red belts is guys
        > that are squires.
        >
        > I'm looking into a plaque belt with enamaled peweter plaques in red
        > and white, as those are both my colors, and aethelmearc's colors. They
        > would look awesome set on a red belt, but i was wondering if I'd cause
        > no end of grief for myself by mounting them to a belt of red leather.
        >
        > If so, I can go with a dark brown, or maybe a black.
        >
        > Cheers!
        >
        > Cailin
      • Dave Roland
        A story I was told once by the former Kingdom Chatelaine for An Tir forgive me for not remembering her name: A new lady came to an event wearing what she could
        Message 3 of 18 , Jun 7, 2011
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          A story I was told once by the former Kingdom Chatelaine for An Tir forgive me for not remembering her name:

          A new lady came to an event wearing what she could that looked pre-17th century. Included was a red belt to help give her dress some shape.

          That day two young men also wearing red belts spoke with the lady about who her knight was. She, being new, did not understand the question and the two young men made quite a big deal about it.

          Along came a Laurel who knew the two young men and saw the consternation on the face of the lady and so the Laurel stepped in and attempted to assist. The two young men, themselves squires, were acting far less than chivalry would prefer you see.

          Finally the Laurel asked the two young men who their Knight was. After being asked a second time by the Laurel the two squires gave the name of their Knight.

          Within half an hour the new lady received an apology in full from the two squires and their Knight, being a man of Chivalry, loaned the lady the use of his two squires for whatever purposes as man-at-arms that she would desire for the rest of that event. And if the Knight saw the lady doing anything for herself he asked the squires why they were not doing it for the lady.

          Custom is merely custom. I am an apprentice and wear the green belt it does not make it solely an apprentice's belt and so it is true for all the colors of the belt except white.

          It is less than chivalrous to claim the force of protection on things that are, well, merely custom as well knew the Knight in the tale and so did his squires by the end of the day. If you wish, wear whatever color you want.

          Understand that people may come up and ask you who you are attached to. A simple explanation of, "No one, the color works well for... [insert reason such as "my colors"" And that should be the end of it.

          And it should not create any problems.

          Ian the Green


          --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Judith Winner <fionnseachdelochielle@...> wrote:
          >
          > I think that going with a black ground (black belt) would make the red and white
          > plaques "pop" better. Nothing like making a great visual impact.
          >
          > That and while it's true that only the white belt is reserved by Corpora, you'd
          > catch no end of grief going against custom.
          >
          > Finnseach
          > Midrealm
          >
          > On 6/7/2011 5:10 PM, Cailin Mac Kinnach wrote:
          > > Hey guys, I have a noobish question that I never thought of before.
          > >
          > > I know that red belts aren't specifically reserved for squires, as the
          > > only belt reserved in corpa is the white belt of chivalry. That being
          > > said, generally, the only people I ever see wearing red belts is guys
          > > that are squires.
          > >
          > > I'm looking into a plaque belt with enamaled peweter plaques in red
          > > and white, as those are both my colors, and aethelmearc's colors. They
          > > would look awesome set on a red belt, but i was wondering if I'd cause
          > > no end of grief for myself by mounting them to a belt of red leather.
          > >
          > > If so, I can go with a dark brown, or maybe a black.
          > >
          > > Cheers!
          > >
          > > Cailin
          >
        • Susan B. Farmer
          ... In general, that s an *unadorned* white/green/yellow/red belt. IMO, go with whatever color looks best -- and say so if asked. The tradition is also
          Message 4 of 18 , Jun 7, 2011
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            On 6/7/2011 5:10 PM, Cailin Mac Kinnach wrote:
            > Hey guys, I have a noobish question that I never thought of before.
            >
            > I know that red belts aren't specifically reserved for squires, as the
            > only belt reserved in corpa is the white belt of chivalry. That being
            > said, generally, the only people I ever see wearing red belts is guys
            > that are squires.
            >
            > I'm looking into a plaque belt with enamaled peweter plaques in red
            > and white, as those are both my colors, and aethelmearc's colors. They
            > would look awesome set on a red belt, but i was wondering if I'd cause
            > no end of grief for myself by mounting them to a belt of red leather.
            >
            > If so, I can go with a dark brown, or maybe a black.
            >

            In general, that's an *unadorned* white/green/yellow/red belt. IMO, go
            with whatever color looks best -- and say so if asked.

            The tradition is also stronger in some kingdoms than others.

            Jerusha
            --
            Susan Farmer
            sfarmer@...
            Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College
            Division of Science and Math
            http://www.abac.edu/sfarmer/
            http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/
          • Justinos Tekton called Justin
            ... And in just about *any* misstep, short of overt and deliberate rudeness or violation of modern-world law, an explanation of, Oh, I m sorry. I m a newcomer
            Message 5 of 18 , Jun 7, 2011
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              On Tue, 2011-06-07 at 22:30 +0000, Dave Roland wrote:
              > Understand that people may come up and ask you who you are attached
              > to. A simple explanation of, "No one, the color works well for...
              > [insert reason such as "my colors"" And that should be the end of it.


              And in just about *any* misstep, short of overt and deliberate rudeness
              or violation of modern-world law, an explanation of, "Oh, I'm sorry. I'm
              a newcomer and wasn't aware _______ was a problem," should suffice.

              As a very wise person once taught me, when I was a newcomer, even the
              highest-ranking noble in the SCA is still just a regular person in the
              real world: "Fill it up with unleaded and check the oil, please, Your
              Grace."

              Justin

              --
              ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
              Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
              Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys
              fesswise reversed sable.

              justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/
            • Chris
              Hail, First, the belt mentioned sounds like a very worthy project. I myself would like to see it. It will cause commotion with some and be admired by others. I
              Message 6 of 18 , Jun 7, 2011
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                Hail,
                First, the belt mentioned sounds like a very worthy project. I myself would like to see it. It will cause commotion with some and be admired by others. I myself was scared away years and years ago by a group who didn't want an unwashed heathen norseman or his plain round shield,sounding horn and battlecries at their noble events. To my detriment I didn't get back into the SCA until much later. I am now a "newbie" at a late age and glad of it.Do what makes you happy. The fact that you asked shows you are thinking of others. I agree with most of the advice given. If you have a good explanation and present it with knowledge of law and respect for tradition many will be appeased.And some you can never make happy.
                That said,I was wondering about ring belts. I have read some messages and dug around some,but haven't got a solid grasp. Is the ring belt an accepted SCA fashion accessory that is not exactly period? I have looked (internet only, have no access to hard copy or library books due to deployment)and find a lot of material on belt buckles and belt ends dating back to pre-600. Not a lot about just ring belts.
                I am no history scholar and am no slave to living history style accuracy. I am all in favor of a "look" (i.e butted chainmail vs super expensive flatring mail)because we are creating the current middle ages after all. Usually on a budget. But I do like authenticity and strive for it where I can.
                So if someone can help straighten me out it would be much appreciated.

                --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Cailin Mac Kinnach <cailin.sca@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hey guys, I have a noobish question that I never thought of before.
                >
                > I know that red belts aren't specifically reserved for squires, as the
                > only belt reserved in corpa is the white belt of chivalry. That being
                > said, generally, the only people I ever see wearing red belts is guys
                > that are squires.
                >
                > I'm looking into a plaque belt with enamaled peweter plaques in red
                > and white, as those are both my colors, and aethelmearc's colors. They
                > would look awesome set on a red belt, but i was wondering if I'd cause
                > no end of grief for myself by mounting them to a belt of red leather.
                >
                > If so, I can go with a dark brown, or maybe a black.
                >
                > Cheers!
                >
                > Cailin
                >
              • Justinos Tekton called Justin
                ... Hah! Around here, in the Middle Kingdom, it seems that lately when we see some unwashed heathen Norseman sounding his battlehorn, we say, Lead on, YOUR
                Message 7 of 18 , Jun 8, 2011
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                  On Wed, 2011-06-08 at 05:56 +0000, Chris wrote:
                  > a group who didn't want an unwashed heathen norseman or his plain
                  > round shield,sounding horn and battlecries at their noble events.


                  Hah! Around here, in the Middle Kingdom, it seems that lately when we
                  see some unwashed heathen Norseman sounding his battlehorn, we say,
                  "Lead on, YOUR MAJESTY!" Most of our royalty lately have been Norse
                  persona. :-)

                  Justin

                  --
                  ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                  Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                  Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys
                  fesswise reversed sable.

                  justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                • warbow67
                  OK could someone please clarify these color rules for belts specifically listing the colors? I have a new belt I was planing on wearing that I dyed myself to a
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jun 8, 2011
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                    OK could someone please clarify these color rules for belts specifically listing the colors? I have a new belt I was planing on wearing that I dyed myself to a burgundy color, and nobody has told me yet of any color restrictions, this is all new to me. And I have no intention of using the "beginner" excuse as what I make stays with me for life no matter what anyone says. Failure goes completely to the SCA as a whole for dropping the ball and not clearly explaining this stuff for newcomers.

                    Not a happy person right now.

                    Dave H
                    Ainninn the Graye


                    --------------------------------


                    --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Cailin Mac Kinnach <cailin.sca@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hey guys, I have a noobish question that I never thought of before.
                    >
                    > I know that red belts aren't specifically reserved for squires, as the
                    > only belt reserved in corpa is the white belt of chivalry. That being
                    > said, generally, the only people I ever see wearing red belts is guys
                    > that are squires.
                    >
                    > I'm looking into a plaque belt with enamaled peweter plaques in red
                    > and white, as those are both my colors, and aethelmearc's colors. They
                    > would look awesome set on a red belt, but i was wondering if I'd cause
                    > no end of grief for myself by mounting them to a belt of red leather.
                    >
                    > If so, I can go with a dark brown, or maybe a black.
                    >
                    > Cheers!
                    >
                    > Cailin
                    >
                  • Bill Toscano
                    White belts are specifically, by Society law, restricted to members of the the Order of Chivalry. (Technically unadorned. ) The following are not in law, but
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jun 8, 2011
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                      White belts are specifically, by Society law, restricted to members of the
                      the Order of Chivalry. (Technically "unadorned.")

                      The following are not in law, but are generally accepted:

                      Red for squires.
                      Green for apprences to Laurels.
                      Yellow for proteges to Pelicans.

                      The colors are fairly standard colors.

                      Also, at least in parts of the East, people who are men-at-arms to squires
                      and knights where blue belts, but I do not think that is widespread.

                      Liam



                      On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 11:56 AM, warbow67 <warbow67@...> wrote:

                      >
                      >
                      > OK could someone please clarify these color rules for belts specifically
                      > listing the colors? I have a new belt I was planing on wearing that I dyed
                      > myself to a burgundy color, and nobody has told me yet of any color
                      > restrictions, this is all new to me. And I have no intention of using the
                      > "beginner" excuse as what I make stays with me for life no matter what
                      > anyone says. Failure goes completely to the SCA as a whole for dropping the
                      > ball and not clearly explaining this stuff for newcomers.
                      >
                      > Not a happy person right now.
                      >
                      > Dave H
                      > Ainninn the Graye
                      >
                      > --------------------------------
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Cailin Mac Kinnach <cailin.sca@...>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hey guys, I have a noobish question that I never thought of before.
                      > >
                      > > I know that red belts aren't specifically reserved for squires, as the
                      > > only belt reserved in corpa is the white belt of chivalry. That being
                      > > said, generally, the only people I ever see wearing red belts is guys
                      > > that are squires.
                      > >
                      > > I'm looking into a plaque belt with enamaled peweter plaques in red
                      > > and white, as those are both my colors, and aethelmearc's colors. They
                      > > would look awesome set on a red belt, but i was wondering if I'd cause
                      > > no end of grief for myself by mounting them to a belt of red leather.
                      > >
                      > > If so, I can go with a dark brown, or maybe a black.
                      > >
                      > > Cheers!
                      > >
                      > > Cailin
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Cailin Mac Kinnach
                      The only color of belt that is reserved is white, for the chivalry. Traditional colors are: red belts for someone squired to a knight (SCA peer relating to
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jun 8, 2011
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                        The only color of belt that is reserved is white, for the chivalry.

                        Traditional colors are: red belts for someone squired to a knight (SCA peer
                        relating to combat), green belts for someone apprenticed to a pelican (SCA
                        Peer related to service), yellow belts for someone apprenticed to a Laurel,
                        (SCA peer related to Arts and Sciences).

                        Some kingdoms include these traditions in sumptery laws, others do not. What
                        kingdom are you in?
                        If a kingdom does not have as law that a particular belt color is reserved,
                        then as long as it is not white, there is nothing to stop you from wearing
                        it. Even if there is, as its burgundy, I think you'd be fine as long as you
                        did not walk up to every squire and say something like, "See this not red
                        belt? I'm not a squire, and its not red, so I can wear it!" (Yes, I've seen
                        people do stuff like this, allot, in the SCA.) you should be fine.

                        Do you fight? Do you have aspirations of striving for knighthood? If the
                        answer is no to either of these questions, then I would not worry overly
                        much. If you do, then you have to consider that some people with direct
                        influence in that circle may be touchy about it.

                        Honestly, after having looked through allot of pictures, I think you'll be
                        fine with a burgandy belt. The red squires belt tends to be a very red
                        color.

                        The question is a big deal for me becaue I'm a: not new, (I've been playing
                        since 2006), and b: fighting is my main pursuit, and I am striving towards
                        knighthood. The only excuse I have for not knowing after all this time is
                        living in the hinterlands for the past few years.

                        Cheers,

                        Cailin

                        On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 11:56 AM, warbow67 <warbow67@...> wrote:

                        >
                        >
                        > OK could someone please clarify these color rules for belts specifically
                        > listing the colors? I have a new belt I was planing on wearing that I dyed
                        > myself to a burgundy color, and nobody has told me yet of any color
                        > restrictions, this is all new to me. And I have no intention of using the
                        > "beginner" excuse as what I make stays with me for life no matter what
                        > anyone says. Failure goes completely to the SCA as a whole for dropping the
                        > ball and not clearly explaining this stuff for newcomers.
                        >
                        > Not a happy person right now.
                        >
                        > Dave H
                        > Ainninn the Graye
                        >
                        > --------------------------------
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Cailin Mac Kinnach <cailin.sca@...>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hey guys, I have a noobish question that I never thought of before.
                        > >
                        > > I know that red belts aren't specifically reserved for squires, as the
                        > > only belt reserved in corpa is the white belt of chivalry. That being
                        > > said, generally, the only people I ever see wearing red belts is guys
                        > > that are squires.
                        > >
                        > > I'm looking into a plaque belt with enamaled peweter plaques in red
                        > > and white, as those are both my colors, and aethelmearc's colors. They
                        > > would look awesome set on a red belt, but i was wondering if I'd cause
                        > > no end of grief for myself by mounting them to a belt of red leather.
                        > >
                        > > If so, I can go with a dark brown, or maybe a black.
                        > >
                        > > Cheers!
                        > >
                        > > Cailin
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Nicole E. Miller
                        The only restricted belt is an unadorned white belt reserved for members of the Chiv. That is in Corpora. Everything else is merely a custom. Its
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jun 8, 2011
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                          The only "restricted" belt is "an unadorned white belt" reserved for members of the Chiv. That is in Corpora. Everything else is merely a custom. Its stronger in some places than others, but it is by no means a rule. If people are snarky about it, its a failing on their part, not yours.

                          Sian

                          ---- warbow67 <warbow67@...> wrote:

                          =============
                          OK could someone please clarify these color rules for belts specifically listing the colors? I have a new belt I was planing on wearing that I dyed myself to a burgundy color, and nobody has told me yet of any color restrictions, this is all new to me. And I have no intention of using the "beginner" excuse as what I make stays with me for life no matter what anyone says. Failure goes completely to the SCA as a whole for dropping the ball and not clearly explaining this stuff for newcomers.

                          Not a happy person right now.

                          Dave H
                          Ainninn the Graye


                          --------------------------------


                          --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Cailin Mac Kinnach <cailin.sca@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hey guys, I have a noobish question that I never thought of before.
                          >
                          > I know that red belts aren't specifically reserved for squires, as the
                          > only belt reserved in corpa is the white belt of chivalry. That being
                          > said, generally, the only people I ever see wearing red belts is guys
                          > that are squires.
                          >
                          > I'm looking into a plaque belt with enamaled peweter plaques in red
                          > and white, as those are both my colors, and aethelmearc's colors. They
                          > would look awesome set on a red belt, but i was wondering if I'd cause
                          > no end of grief for myself by mounting them to a belt of red leather.
                          >
                          > If so, I can go with a dark brown, or maybe a black.
                          >
                          > Cheers!
                          >
                          > Cailin
                          >
                        • Ian the Green
                          There is only one rule regarding belts. White is reserved for Knights. In some Kingdoms it is only an undecorated white belt. Anyone can where any other color
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jun 8, 2011
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                            There is only one rule regarding belts.

                            White is reserved for Knights. In some Kingdoms it is only an undecorated
                            white belt.

                            Anyone can where any other color belt that they desire.

                            CUSTOM (and the force of custom) varies from Kingdom to Kingdom. However,
                            the norm that I know of in the three Kingdoms I have lived in is as follows
                            regarding belts.

                            Squires (a person attached to a Knight in a formal manner) often wear red
                            belts;

                            Apprentices (a person attached to a Laurel in a formal manner) often wear
                            green belts;

                            Proteges (a person attached to a Pelican in a formal manner) often wear
                            yellow belts.

                            Generally speaking those who wear these belts as a sign of being attached to
                            one of the above wear them plain or with the arms of who they are attached
                            to or those who wore the belt before them. Some belts have great lineage on
                            them and it is a great conversation opener.

                            Anyone who desires to may wear any color belt that they desire to. Be aware
                            that if you wear any of the colors above that you may get asked who your
                            Knight/Laurel/Pelican is. There is no need to use, "I'm new," as an excuse.

                            You can simply say that, "These are my personal colors," or, "I saw this
                            kind and color of a belt in a period painting/illumination/picture and
                            thought it was very neat," or any such thing such as, "It looks great with
                            my outfit."

                            In some Kingdoms they are taking Man-at-Arms and giving them Blue Belts
                            though this is hardly society-wide.

                            It is also strongly recommended that you avoid wearing an undecorated gold
                            chain (largish links most often) as this is also a symbol of Knighthood.

                            As a Chatelain, and as an apprentice, I tell my newcomers what the custom is
                            and to be aware if they wear these colors of belts people may ask them some
                            questions. But being an apprentice/protege/squire does not give anyone any
                            more privileges than anyone else. In fact it gives us (often) a higher code
                            of conduct to follow and perhaps some greater visibility but nothing in the
                            way of higher station at all. These are not stations in the SCA such as
                            Lord, Honorable Lord, Peer, Baron(ess) etc etc etc.

                            Be aware of what can happen. And welcome to the SCA where if you ask three
                            people the same question you will get at least 5 different answers. If you
                            choose to wear one of the "Stoplight belt colors" (Red, Yellow and Green,)
                            do so with respect to others but also without fear.

                            Ian the Green

                            On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 11:56 AM, warbow67 <warbow67@...> wrote:

                            >
                            >
                            > OK could someone please clarify these color rules for belts specifically
                            > listing the colors? I have a new belt I was planing on wearing that I dyed
                            > myself to a burgundy color, and nobody has told me yet of any color
                            > restrictions, this is all new to me. And I have no intention of using the
                            > "beginner" excuse as what I make stays with me for life no matter what
                            > anyone says. Failure goes completely to the SCA as a whole for dropping the
                            > ball and not clearly explaining this stuff for newcomers.
                            >
                            > Not a happy person right now.
                            >
                            > Dave H
                            > Ainninn the Graye
                            >
                            > --------------------------------
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Cailin Mac Kinnach <cailin.sca@...>
                            > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Hey guys, I have a noobish question that I never thought of before.
                            > >
                            > > I know that red belts aren't specifically reserved for squires, as the
                            > > only belt reserved in corpa is the white belt of chivalry. That being
                            > > said, generally, the only people I ever see wearing red belts is guys
                            > > that are squires.
                            > >
                            > > I'm looking into a plaque belt with enamaled peweter plaques in red
                            > > and white, as those are both my colors, and aethelmearc's colors. They
                            > > would look awesome set on a red belt, but i was wondering if I'd cause
                            > > no end of grief for myself by mounting them to a belt of red leather.
                            > >
                            > > If so, I can go with a dark brown, or maybe a black.
                            > >
                            > > Cheers!
                            > >
                            > > Cailin
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >



                            --
                            Yours In Service,

                            Lord Ian the Green


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • christopher chastain
                            Blue belts are used here in Trimaris by some. I personnaly say if they want those colors only used by those select individuals then they need to get it placed
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jun 8, 2011
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                              Blue belts are used here in Trimaris by some. I personnaly say if they want those colors only used by those select individuals then they need to get it placed in corpora otherwise its fair game.





                              Yours in Humble Service,
                              Pomestnik Dmitrii Ivanov


                              The goal shouldnt be knighthood,laurel or pelican but an answer to the following question, am I better today than I was yesterday?


                              ()====[]::::::::::::::::::>







                              > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                              > From: liamstliam@...
                              > Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 12:10:18 -0400
                              > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Re: On belts...
                              >
                              > White belts are specifically, by Society law, restricted to members of the
                              > the Order of Chivalry. (Technically "unadorned.")
                              >
                              > The following are not in law, but are generally accepted:
                              >
                              > Red for squires.
                              > Green for apprences to Laurels.
                              > Yellow for proteges to Pelicans.
                              >
                              > The colors are fairly standard colors.
                              >
                              > Also, at least in parts of the East, people who are men-at-arms to squires
                              > and knights where blue belts, but I do not think that is widespread.
                              >
                              > Liam
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 11:56 AM, warbow67 <warbow67@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > OK could someone please clarify these color rules for belts specifically
                              > > listing the colors? I have a new belt I was planing on wearing that I dyed
                              > > myself to a burgundy color, and nobody has told me yet of any color
                              > > restrictions, this is all new to me. And I have no intention of using the
                              > > "beginner" excuse as what I make stays with me for life no matter what
                              > > anyone says. Failure goes completely to the SCA as a whole for dropping the
                              > > ball and not clearly explaining this stuff for newcomers.
                              > >
                              > > Not a happy person right now.
                              > >
                              > > Dave H
                              > > Ainninn the Graye
                              > >
                              > > --------------------------------
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Cailin Mac Kinnach <cailin.sca@...>
                              > > wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Hey guys, I have a noobish question that I never thought of before.
                              > > >
                              > > > I know that red belts aren't specifically reserved for squires, as the
                              > > > only belt reserved in corpa is the white belt of chivalry. That being
                              > > > said, generally, the only people I ever see wearing red belts is guys
                              > > > that are squires.
                              > > >
                              > > > I'm looking into a plaque belt with enamaled peweter plaques in red
                              > > > and white, as those are both my colors, and aethelmearc's colors. They
                              > > > would look awesome set on a red belt, but i was wondering if I'd cause
                              > > > no end of grief for myself by mounting them to a belt of red leather.
                              > > >
                              > > > If so, I can go with a dark brown, or maybe a black.
                              > > >
                              > > > Cheers!
                              > > >
                              > > > Cailin
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Ian the Green
                              Cailin, //Traditional colors are: red belts for someone squired to a knight (SCA peer relating to combat), green belts for someone apprenticed to a pelican
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jun 8, 2011
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Cailin,

                                //Traditional colors are: red belts for someone squired to a knight (SCA
                                peer
                                relating to combat), green belts for someone apprenticed to a pelican (SCA
                                Peer related to service), yellow belts for someone apprenticed to a Laurel,
                                (SCA peer related to Arts and Sciences).//

                                Did you mean to say it this way? I am unaware of a kingdom where
                                apprentices wear yellow and proteges wear green. It is a cool thought
                                though.

                                Ian

                                On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Cailin Mac Kinnach <cailin.sca@...>wrote:

                                > The only color of belt that is reserved is white, for the chivalry.
                                >
                                > Traditional colors are: red belts for someone squired to a knight (SCA peer
                                > relating to combat), green belts for someone apprenticed to a pelican (SCA
                                > Peer related to service), yellow belts for someone apprenticed to a Laurel,
                                > (SCA peer related to Arts and Sciences).
                                >
                                > Some kingdoms include these traditions in sumptery laws, others do not.
                                > What
                                > kingdom are you in?
                                > If a kingdom does not have as law that a particular belt color is reserved,
                                > then as long as it is not white, there is nothing to stop you from wearing
                                > it. Even if there is, as its burgundy, I think you'd be fine as long as
                                > you
                                > did not walk up to every squire and say something like, "See this not red
                                > belt? I'm not a squire, and its not red, so I can wear it!" (Yes, I've
                                > seen
                                > people do stuff like this, allot, in the SCA.) you should be fine.
                                >
                                > Do you fight? Do you have aspirations of striving for knighthood? If the
                                > answer is no to either of these questions, then I would not worry overly
                                > much. If you do, then you have to consider that some people with direct
                                > influence in that circle may be touchy about it.
                                >
                                > Honestly, after having looked through allot of pictures, I think you'll be
                                > fine with a burgandy belt. The red squires belt tends to be a very red
                                > color.
                                >
                                > The question is a big deal for me becaue I'm a: not new, (I've been playing
                                > since 2006), and b: fighting is my main pursuit, and I am striving towards
                                > knighthood. The only excuse I have for not knowing after all this time is
                                > living in the hinterlands for the past few years.
                                >
                                > Cheers,
                                >
                                > Cailin
                                >
                                > On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 11:56 AM, warbow67 <warbow67@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > OK could someone please clarify these color rules for belts specifically
                                > > listing the colors? I have a new belt I was planing on wearing that I
                                > dyed
                                > > myself to a burgundy color, and nobody has told me yet of any color
                                > > restrictions, this is all new to me. And I have no intention of using the
                                > > "beginner" excuse as what I make stays with me for life no matter what
                                > > anyone says. Failure goes completely to the SCA as a whole for dropping
                                > the
                                > > ball and not clearly explaining this stuff for newcomers.
                                > >
                                > > Not a happy person right now.
                                > >
                                > > Dave H
                                > > Ainninn the Graye
                                > >
                                > > --------------------------------
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Cailin Mac Kinnach <cailin.sca@...>
                                > > wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Hey guys, I have a noobish question that I never thought of before.
                                > > >
                                > > > I know that red belts aren't specifically reserved for squires, as the
                                > > > only belt reserved in corpa is the white belt of chivalry. That being
                                > > > said, generally, the only people I ever see wearing red belts is guys
                                > > > that are squires.
                                > > >
                                > > > I'm looking into a plaque belt with enamaled peweter plaques in red
                                > > > and white, as those are both my colors, and aethelmearc's colors. They
                                > > > would look awesome set on a red belt, but i was wondering if I'd cause
                                > > > no end of grief for myself by mounting them to a belt of red leather.
                                > > >
                                > > > If so, I can go with a dark brown, or maybe a black.
                                > > >
                                > > > Cheers!
                                > > >
                                > > > Cailin
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >


                                --
                                Yours In Service,

                                Lord Ian the Green


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Bill Toscano
                                No, that s me not paying attention to making sure the words were green, apprentice, Laurel and yellow, protege, Pelican. Liam ... [Non-text portions of this
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jun 8, 2011
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  No, that's me not paying attention to making sure the words were green,
                                  apprentice, Laurel and yellow, protege, Pelican.

                                  Liam


                                  On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 12:28 PM, Ian the Green <ianthegreen01@...>wrote:

                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Cailin,
                                  >
                                  > //Traditional colors are: red belts for someone squired to a knight (SCA
                                  >
                                  > peer
                                  > relating to combat), green belts for someone apprenticed to a pelican (SCA
                                  > Peer related to service), yellow belts for someone apprenticed to a Laurel,
                                  > (SCA peer related to Arts and Sciences).//
                                  >
                                  > Did you mean to say it this way? I am unaware of a kingdom where
                                  > apprentices wear yellow and proteges wear green. It is a cool thought
                                  > though.
                                  >
                                  > Ian
                                  >
                                  > On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Cailin Mac Kinnach <cailin.sca@...
                                  > >wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > > The only color of belt that is reserved is white, for the chivalry.
                                  > >
                                  > > Traditional colors are: red belts for someone squired to a knight (SCA
                                  > peer
                                  > > relating to combat), green belts for someone apprenticed to a pelican
                                  > (SCA
                                  > > Peer related to service), yellow belts for someone apprenticed to a
                                  > Laurel,
                                  > > (SCA peer related to Arts and Sciences).
                                  > >
                                  > > Some kingdoms include these traditions in sumptery laws, others do not.
                                  > > What
                                  > > kingdom are you in?
                                  > > If a kingdom does not have as law that a particular belt color is
                                  > reserved,
                                  > > then as long as it is not white, there is nothing to stop you from
                                  > wearing
                                  > > it. Even if there is, as its burgundy, I think you'd be fine as long as
                                  > > you
                                  > > did not walk up to every squire and say something like, "See this not red
                                  > > belt? I'm not a squire, and its not red, so I can wear it!" (Yes, I've
                                  > > seen
                                  > > people do stuff like this, allot, in the SCA.) you should be fine.
                                  > >
                                  > > Do you fight? Do you have aspirations of striving for knighthood? If the
                                  > > answer is no to either of these questions, then I would not worry overly
                                  > > much. If you do, then you have to consider that some people with direct
                                  > > influence in that circle may be touchy about it.
                                  > >
                                  > > Honestly, after having looked through allot of pictures, I think you'll
                                  > be
                                  > > fine with a burgandy belt. The red squires belt tends to be a very red
                                  > > color.
                                  > >
                                  > > The question is a big deal for me becaue I'm a: not new, (I've been
                                  > playing
                                  > > since 2006), and b: fighting is my main pursuit, and I am striving
                                  > towards
                                  > > knighthood. The only excuse I have for not knowing after all this time is
                                  > > living in the hinterlands for the past few years.
                                  > >
                                  > > Cheers,
                                  > >
                                  > > Cailin
                                  > >
                                  > > On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 11:56 AM, warbow67 <warbow67@...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > OK could someone please clarify these color rules for belts
                                  > specifically
                                  > > > listing the colors? I have a new belt I was planing on wearing that I
                                  > > dyed
                                  > > > myself to a burgundy color, and nobody has told me yet of any color
                                  > > > restrictions, this is all new to me. And I have no intention of using
                                  > the
                                  > > > "beginner" excuse as what I make stays with me for life no matter what
                                  > > > anyone says. Failure goes completely to the SCA as a whole for dropping
                                  > > the
                                  > > > ball and not clearly explaining this stuff for newcomers.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Not a happy person right now.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Dave H
                                  > > > Ainninn the Graye
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --------------------------------
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Cailin Mac Kinnach <cailin.sca@
                                  > ...>
                                  > > > wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Hey guys, I have a noobish question that I never thought of before.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I know that red belts aren't specifically reserved for squires, as
                                  > the
                                  > > > > only belt reserved in corpa is the white belt of chivalry. That being
                                  > > > > said, generally, the only people I ever see wearing red belts is guys
                                  > > > > that are squires.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I'm looking into a plaque belt with enamaled peweter plaques in red
                                  > > > > and white, as those are both my colors, and aethelmearc's colors.
                                  > They
                                  > > > > would look awesome set on a red belt, but i was wondering if I'd
                                  > cause
                                  > > > > no end of grief for myself by mounting them to a belt of red leather.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > If so, I can go with a dark brown, or maybe a black.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Cheers!
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Cailin
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ------------------------------------
                                  > >
                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > --
                                  > Yours In Service,
                                  >
                                  > Lord Ian the Green
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Cailin Mac Kinnach
                                  I did, but that does not mean I was correct. I ve been out in the country and away from things like laurels and apprentices and squires and knights. Out here,
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Jun 8, 2011
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I did, but that does not mean I was correct. I've been out in the country
                                    and away from things like laurels and apprentices and squires and knights.
                                    Out here, we get excited when we see a belt that isn't black or brown. Or a
                                    pointy hat. Any of these things gets conversation going for -months-.

                                    Cailin

                                    On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 12:28 PM, Ian the Green <ianthegreen01@...>wrote:

                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Cailin,
                                    >
                                    > //Traditional colors are: red belts for someone squired to a knight (SCA
                                    >
                                    > peer
                                    > relating to combat), green belts for someone apprenticed to a pelican (SCA
                                    > Peer related to service), yellow belts for someone apprenticed to a Laurel,
                                    > (SCA peer related to Arts and Sciences).//
                                    >
                                    > Did you mean to say it this way? I am unaware of a kingdom where
                                    > apprentices wear yellow and proteges wear green. It is a cool thought
                                    > though.
                                    >
                                    > Ian
                                    >
                                    > On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Cailin Mac Kinnach <cailin.sca@...
                                    > >wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > > The only color of belt that is reserved is white, for the chivalry.
                                    > >
                                    > > Traditional colors are: red belts for someone squired to a knight (SCA
                                    > peer
                                    > > relating to combat), green belts for someone apprenticed to a pelican
                                    > (SCA
                                    > > Peer related to service), yellow belts for someone apprenticed to a
                                    > Laurel,
                                    > > (SCA peer related to Arts and Sciences).
                                    > >
                                    > > Some kingdoms include these traditions in sumptery laws, others do not.
                                    > > What
                                    > > kingdom are you in?
                                    > > If a kingdom does not have as law that a particular belt color is
                                    > reserved,
                                    > > then as long as it is not white, there is nothing to stop you from
                                    > wearing
                                    > > it. Even if there is, as its burgundy, I think you'd be fine as long as
                                    > > you
                                    > > did not walk up to every squire and say something like, "See this not red
                                    > > belt? I'm not a squire, and its not red, so I can wear it!" (Yes, I've
                                    > > seen
                                    > > people do stuff like this, allot, in the SCA.) you should be fine.
                                    > >
                                    > > Do you fight? Do you have aspirations of striving for knighthood? If the
                                    > > answer is no to either of these questions, then I would not worry overly
                                    > > much. If you do, then you have to consider that some people with direct
                                    > > influence in that circle may be touchy about it.
                                    > >
                                    > > Honestly, after having looked through allot of pictures, I think you'll
                                    > be
                                    > > fine with a burgandy belt. The red squires belt tends to be a very red
                                    > > color.
                                    > >
                                    > > The question is a big deal for me becaue I'm a: not new, (I've been
                                    > playing
                                    > > since 2006), and b: fighting is my main pursuit, and I am striving
                                    > towards
                                    > > knighthood. The only excuse I have for not knowing after all this time is
                                    > > living in the hinterlands for the past few years.
                                    > >
                                    > > Cheers,
                                    > >
                                    > > Cailin
                                    > >
                                    > > On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 11:56 AM, warbow67 <warbow67@...> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > OK could someone please clarify these color rules for belts
                                    > specifically
                                    > > > listing the colors? I have a new belt I was planing on wearing that I
                                    > > dyed
                                    > > > myself to a burgundy color, and nobody has told me yet of any color
                                    > > > restrictions, this is all new to me. And I have no intention of using
                                    > the
                                    > > > "beginner" excuse as what I make stays with me for life no matter what
                                    > > > anyone says. Failure goes completely to the SCA as a whole for dropping
                                    > > the
                                    > > > ball and not clearly explaining this stuff for newcomers.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Not a happy person right now.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Dave H
                                    > > > Ainninn the Graye
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --------------------------------
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Cailin Mac Kinnach <cailin.sca@
                                    > ...>
                                    > > > wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Hey guys, I have a noobish question that I never thought of before.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > I know that red belts aren't specifically reserved for squires, as
                                    > the
                                    > > > > only belt reserved in corpa is the white belt of chivalry. That being
                                    > > > > said, generally, the only people I ever see wearing red belts is guys
                                    > > > > that are squires.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > I'm looking into a plaque belt with enamaled peweter plaques in red
                                    > > > > and white, as those are both my colors, and aethelmearc's colors.
                                    > They
                                    > > > > would look awesome set on a red belt, but i was wondering if I'd
                                    > cause
                                    > > > > no end of grief for myself by mounting them to a belt of red leather.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > If so, I can go with a dark brown, or maybe a black.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Cheers!
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Cailin
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ------------------------------------
                                    > >
                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > --
                                    > Yours In Service,
                                    >
                                    > Lord Ian the Green
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Chris
                                    Master Tekton, Oh this was many,many years ago in a land I will, out of politeness and sureness that most of the perpetrators are gone,not mention. I was 22
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Jun 9, 2011
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Master Tekton,
                                      Oh this was many,many years ago in a land I will, out of politeness and sureness that most of the perpetrators are gone,not mention. I was 22 and a Marine. I was the only Viking in a group and let us not say shunned, but there was friendly coercion to see the error of my ways and deny Red Thor for White Jesus! At the ripe age of 36 I found a group, which out of politeness and admiration I will mention, in Ansteorra. I walked into the Shire of Seawinds thinking I wanted to be an 11th century Welsh crusader. In the limited time I was there, I learned really what the SCA is about. Fun and friendship. Unfortunately, I had but a year with them. In that short period I decided it was time to be a Viking. I am an "experienced newcomer" and am chomping at the bit to jump in with both feet.

                                      Arngrimr Thorvaldson

                                      --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Justinos Tekton called Justin <justin@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > On Wed, 2011-06-08 at 05:56 +0000, Chris wrote:
                                      > > a group who didn't want an unwashed heathen norseman or his plain
                                      > > round shield,sounding horn and battlecries at their noble events.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Hah! Around here, in the Middle Kingdom, it seems that lately when we
                                      > see some unwashed heathen Norseman sounding his battlehorn, we say,
                                      > "Lead on, YOUR MAJESTY!" Most of our royalty lately have been Norse
                                      > persona. :-)
                                      >
                                      > Justin
                                      >
                                      > --
                                      > ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                                      > Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                                      > Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys
                                      > fesswise reversed sable.
                                      >
                                      > justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                                      >
                                    • Franchesca Bush
                                      I do find that the people in Ansteorra are most helpful and I m glad they are my first real experience in the SCA. Thanks! ... [Non-text portions of this
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Jun 9, 2011
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        I do find that the people in Ansteorra are most helpful and I'm glad they
                                        are my first real experience in the SCA. Thanks!

                                        On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 2:30 AM, Chris <chris_brock00@...> wrote:

                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Master Tekton,
                                        > Oh this was many,many years ago in a land I will, out of politeness and
                                        > sureness that most of the perpetrators are gone,not mention. I was 22 and a
                                        > Marine. I was the only Viking in a group and let us not say shunned, but
                                        > there was friendly coercion to see the error of my ways and deny Red Thor
                                        > for White Jesus! At the ripe age of 36 I found a group, which out of
                                        > politeness and admiration I will mention, in Ansteorra. I walked into the
                                        > Shire of Seawinds thinking I wanted to be an 11th century Welsh crusader. In
                                        > the limited time I was there, I learned really what the SCA is about. Fun
                                        > and friendship. Unfortunately, I had but a year with them. In that short
                                        > period I decided it was time to be a Viking. I am an "experienced newcomer"
                                        > and am chomping at the bit to jump in with both feet.
                                        >
                                        > Arngrimr Thorvaldson
                                        >
                                        > --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Justinos Tekton called Justin
                                        > <justin@...> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > On Wed, 2011-06-08 at 05:56 +0000, Chris wrote:
                                        > > > a group who didn't want an unwashed heathen norseman or his plain
                                        > > > round shield,sounding horn and battlecries at their noble events.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Hah! Around here, in the Middle Kingdom, it seems that lately when we
                                        > > see some unwashed heathen Norseman sounding his battlehorn, we say,
                                        > > "Lead on, YOUR MAJESTY!" Most of our royalty lately have been Norse
                                        > > persona. :-)
                                        > >
                                        > > Justin
                                        > >
                                        > > --
                                        > > ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                                        > > Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                                        > > Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys
                                        > > fesswise reversed sable.
                                        > >
                                        > > justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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