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Re: [SCA Newcomers] Hard over soft armor

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  • Cailin Mac Kinnach
    You need rigid armor over elbows, knees, kidneys. there is a list of acceptable rigid materials in the society hand book, which all kingdoms use as a minimum.
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 28, 2010
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      You need rigid armor over elbows, knees, kidneys.

      there is a list of acceptable rigid materials in the society hand book,
      which all kingdoms use as a minimum. Some kingdoms may impose higher
      standards, but none can go below those in the society book.

      Fighters who go with cloth or chainmail kits go with stealth armor to meet
      the requirements, such as lacross gear and the like.

      Cailin

      On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Mike <beefers96@...> wrote:

      >
      >
      > Hail and well met.
      >
      > I had a question about the "hard over soft" rule for Armored Combat
      > protection. Although each kingdom does seem to have different standards,
      > would a traditional steel coat of mail over a thick padded gambeson meet
      > those requirements? Or would you still need additional armor on the elbow
      > joints, kidneys, ect?
      >
      > Thanks
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Gavin Kinkade
      In most kingdoms they specify that a RIGID armour be used over joints, Kidneys and head. Rigid in most kingdoms equates to 1/4 thick Hardened leather, 16ga.
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 28, 2010
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        In most kingdoms they specify that a RIGID armour be used over joints,
        Kidneys and head.

        Rigid in most kingdoms equates to 1/4" thick Hardened leather, 16ga. Mild or
        Stainles Steel, or 1/8" aluminum, or 1/4" hardend plastic . And most kingdoms
        specify that 1/2 inch of closed cell foam under the rigid piece.

        Chain mail and a gambeson will not pass for the joints, kidneys and head, and it
        is described as flexible armor, and not rigid.

        the minimum armour kits consist of the following, will have a helmet (of
        course), a rigid elbow and forarms, rigid demi-or full- gauntlets, a kidney belt
        with hardned leather or aluminum plates attached over the belt, a groin
        protection, rigid knees  and thats it per the minimums.

        Adding a Chain mail shirt/hauberk and padded gambeson would be additional and
        not required. However it does add to the authenticity of our group, and some
        protection from blows, but its entirely up to you.

         



        ________________________________
        From: Mike <beefers96@...>
        To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wed, July 28, 2010 2:41:10 PM
        Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Hard over soft armor

         
        Hail and well met.

        I had a question about the "hard over soft" rule for Armored Combat protection.
        Although each kingdom does seem to have different standards, would a traditional
        steel coat of mail over a thick padded gambeson meet those requirements? Or
        would you still need additional armor on the elbow joints, kidneys, ect?

        Thanks







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Mike
        Thanks to both of you for helping me to clear that up!
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 28, 2010
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          Thanks to both of you for helping me to clear that up!
        • Stefan li Rous
          Mike asked:
          Message 4 of 5 , Jul 29, 2010
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            Mike asked:
            <<< I had a question about the "hard over soft" rule for Armored Combat protection. Although each kingdom does seem to have different standards, would a traditional steel coat of mail over a thick padded gambeson meet those requirements? Or would you still need additional armor on the elbow joints, kidneys, ect? >>>

            Others have answered the SCA legal requirements. You don't see mail used in SCA as the main body armor. It would be nice to see it used more.

            There are several reasons for this.
            1) Mail is beneficial mostly against edged weapons. One of the reasons that clubs and maces were used was that they kill and damage by concussion and the blow itself. Plate armor tends to spread the blow better than mail.

            SCA weapons are much more like clubs than edged weapons, so much of the advantage of the mail isn't being used.

            2) Mail by itself will protect from an edged weapon, but as mentioned above, it doesn't deflect or absorb the force of a club well. This is why you need to wear a gambeson underneath the mail. Unfortunately, much of the US is rather warm compared to Europe and particularly late-period Europe during the "little ice age", so that padded gambeson can get rather hot. Making the gambeson out of natural cloth, particularly linen, and being careful with what you stuff it, can help.

            3) Making mail can take a long time. I started my mail shirt when I joined the SCA 20 years ago. It still isn't finished because it has no sleeves. Partly because I hadn't figured out how to go from vest to sleeves and partly because I don't have the time I used to have. Commercially made, even riveted mail, shirts are now becoming much more affordable than they were. Not cheap, though.

            If you wish to try your hand at making mail, you might wish to look at these files in the COMBAT section of the Florilegium:

            chainmail-beg-art (24K) 11/ 2/00 "Chainmaille Tutorial for Beginners" by Culann Mac Cruimeinn.
            http://www.florilegium.org/files/COMBAT/chainmail-beg-art.html

            chainmail-msg (132K) 1/ 8/08 Making chainmail. Mail armor. References.
            http://www.florilegium.org/files/COMBAT/chainmail-msg.html

            chnmail-clean-msg (6K) 10/18/01 Cleaning mail armor in period and today.
            http://www.florilegium.org/files/COMBAT/chnmail-clean-msg.html

            merch-chainml-msg (24K) 4/29/06 Chainmail merchants and supplies.
            http://www.florilegium.org/files/COMBAT/merch-chainml-msg.html

            Stefan

            --------
            THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
            Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas StefanliRous@...
            **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org ****
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