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RE: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question

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  • christopher chastain
    Thank you, I knew there was a logical conclusion to this as I didnt have the answer and dont like to call folks out without it! Yours in Humble Service,
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 16, 2010
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      Thank you, I knew there was a logical conclusion to this as I didnt have the answer and dont like to call folks out without it!





      Yours in Humble Service,
      Pomestnik Dmitrii Ivanov
      Per saltire sable and azure, a two headed eagle displayed and in chief a mullet of eight points argent


      "Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it!"








      To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
      From: sfarmer@...
      Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 11:50:12 -0400
      Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question





      Quoting christopher chastain <ckchastain@...>:

      >
      > Now this brings a question to my mind. I have had folks tell me corn
      > or maize was new world only and I have had some folks say thats
      > false that Europeans had a crop that was very similar to Maize and
      > of the same family. Now I know I was educated in SC but could
      > someone nail this debate to a close for me please.
      >

      Corn is a grass -- so yeah, there was *LOTS* of stuff in Europe from
      the same family. But Corn /Zea mays/ is indeed native to Central and
      South America. When it was introduced, it was seen mostly as a forage
      crop. There are *still* places in Europe where folks won't eat corn
      (now, that may be a very localized phenomenon) because it's perceived
      as "animal food." Columbus brought some back with him.

      The book that we use as a text (why, no, SCAdians aren't book junkies,
      why do you ask?) is _Economic Botany: Plants in Our World_ by Simpson
      and Ogorzaly.

      jerusha
      -----
      Susan Farmer
      sfarmer@...
      Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College
      Division of Science and Math
      http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/





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    • Kristen Praiswater
      They would have been considered a chili.  Most of of our peppers that we have now were new world foods back then.  I help run a kitchen demo, so I have to
      Message 2 of 15 , Jun 16, 2010
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        They would have been considered a chili.  Most of of our peppers that we have now were new world foods back then.  I help run a kitchen demo, so I have to know my stuff.  Hope this helps your debate.
         
        Sherrif of Seleone
        Valentina Elisabetta della Luna
        aka
        Kristen Praiswater
         


        --- On Wed, 6/16/10, Summer <cowboysladygoneinsane@...> wrote:


        From: Summer <cowboysladygoneinsane@...>
        Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question
        To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 12:20 AM


         



        My husband and I were just having an interesting debate. Would there have been Jalapeno's in Period Europe? Or would they have just been considered another Chilli?











        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Kyla
        I think part of the confusion comes from the use of terms. Historically, the word corn has sometimes meant the most common grain grown in an area - I m a
        Message 3 of 15 , Jun 16, 2010
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          I think part of the confusion comes from the use of terms.

          Historically, the word corn has sometimes meant the most common grain grown
          in an area - I'm a little fuzzy on the details of what constitutes an area -
          so the word could be referring to wheat or barley, or any other grain.

          The new world only grew one grain crop - maize - so that was the 'corn' of
          the region.

          You can see how that might have helped to confuse the issue.
          Americans say 'corn' when they mean 'maize', and Europeans think they
          understand the question, but they might be answering by talking about rye or
          millet.

          It always helps to define the terms used.

          Tabitha Pennywarden
          Ravenslake, Midlands
          Middle Kingdom

          -----Original Message-----
          From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com]On
          Behalf Of christopher chastain
          Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:03 AM
          To: SCA New Comers
          Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question




          Thank you, I knew there was a logical conclusion to this as I didnt have
          the answer and dont like to call folks out without it!

          Yours in Humble Service,
          Pomestnik Dmitrii Ivanov
          Per saltire sable and azure, a two headed eagle displayed and in chief a
          mullet of eight points argent

          "Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it!"


          To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
          From: sfarmer@...
          Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 11:50:12 -0400
          Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question

          Quoting christopher chastain <ckchastain@...>:

          >
          > Now this brings a question to my mind. I have had folks tell me corn
          > or maize was new world only and I have had some folks say thats
          > false that Europeans had a crop that was very similar to Maize and
          > of the same family. Now I know I was educated in SC but could
          > someone nail this debate to a close for me please.
          >

          Corn is a grass -- so yeah, there was *LOTS* of stuff in Europe from
          the same family. But Corn /Zea mays/ is indeed native to Central and
          South America. When it was introduced, it was seen mostly as a forage
          crop. There are *still* places in Europe where folks won't eat corn
          (now, that may be a very localized phenomenon) because it's perceived
          as "animal food." Columbus brought some back with him.

          The book that we use as a text (why, no, SCAdians aren't book junkies,
          why do you ask?) is _Economic Botany: Plants in Our World_ by Simpson
          and Ogorzaly.

          jerusha
          -----
          Susan Farmer
          sfarmer@...
          Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College
          Division of Science and Math
          http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/


          __________________________________________________________
          Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your
          inbox.

          http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:W
          L:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Nicole Davis
          Actually yes it did because it gave me a new area to research into to get a decent time frame for when chili s came to europe, around 1493 when Columbus came
          Message 4 of 15 , Jun 16, 2010
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            Actually yes it did because it gave me a new area to research into to get a decent time frame for when chili's came to europe, around 1493 when Columbus came back after visiting The New World again





            ________________________________
            From: Kristen Praiswater <spellsinger28@...>
            To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 9:32:33 AM
            Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question


            They would have been considered a chili. Most of of our peppers that we have now were new world foods back then. I help run a kitchen demo, so I have to know my stuff. Hope this helps your debate.

            Sherrif of Seleone
            Valentina Elisabetta della Luna
            aka
            Kristen Praiswater


            --- On Wed, 6/16/10, Summer <cowboysladygoneinsane@...> wrote:

            From: Summer <cowboysladygoneinsane@...>
            Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question
            To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 12:20 AM



            My husband and I were just having an interesting debate. Would there have been Jalapeno's in Period Europe? Or would they have just been considered another Chilli?

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Kristen Praiswater
            I m glad it helped you.    ... From: Nicole Davis Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question To:
            Message 5 of 15 , Jun 16, 2010
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              I'm glad it helped you. 
               


              --- On Wed, 6/16/10, Nicole Davis <cowboysladygoneinsane@...> wrote:


              From: Nicole Davis <cowboysladygoneinsane@...>
              Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question
              To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 12:41 PM


               



              Actually yes it did because it gave me a new area to research into to get a decent time frame for when chili's came to europe, around 1493 when Columbus came back after visiting The New World again

              ________________________________
              From: Kristen Praiswater <spellsinger28@...>
              To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 9:32:33 AM
              Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question

              They would have been considered a chili. Most of of our peppers that we have now were new world foods back then. I help run a kitchen demo, so I have to know my stuff. Hope this helps your debate.

              Sherrif of Seleone
              Valentina Elisabetta della Luna
              aka
              Kristen Praiswater


              --- On Wed, 6/16/10, Summer <cowboysladygoneinsane@...> wrote:

              From: Summer <cowboysladygoneinsane@...>
              Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question
              To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 12:20 AM

              My husband and I were just having an interesting debate. Would there have been Jalapeno's in Period Europe? Or would they have just been considered another Chilli?

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • bronwynmgn@aol.com
              Message 6 of 15 , Jun 16, 2010
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                <<


                Thank you, I knew there was a logical conclusion to this as I didnt have the answer and dont like to call folks out without it!

                Yours in Humble Service,
                Pomestnik Dmitrii Ivanov
                Per saltire sable and azure, a two headed eagle displayed and in chief a mullet of eight points argent

                "Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it!">>


                There is also the fact that the English refer to wheat and similar grains as "corn". So you may well run into the word "corn" in a period source, but most likely it refers to a variety of wheat rather than to maize.

                Brangwana Morgan
                Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                Lancaster, PA




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Bambi TBNL
                from the dept of boring factoids you never wanted to know if you take a modern german translation of shakespear and an orignal writing of shakes pear...it is
                Message 7 of 15 , Jun 16, 2010
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                  from the dept of boring factoids you never wanted to know
                  if you take a modern german translation of shakespear and
                  an orignal writing of shakes pear...it is pretty sclose word for word...even a lot of the grammer
                  the german  word for grain is Korn
                   the german word for corn is Maize 
                  In germany , Maize is used as annimal fodder because it doe not grow of a humanly marketable quality there.
                  in the late 1940s at the end of WWII when there were no farms with enough to feed the german citizens while they rebuilt their country, the US ,hearing the plea of the  pupolace of war ravage germany, sent a humanitarian gift of corn/maize to feed them.
                  whether accidentally or deliberately , the letter from the newly formed govt had been tranlated incorrectly. in the 1970's I knew people who had been on the receiving end of that debacle and who still could not understand how the US has so callously sent animal fodder to a country whose children were starving.
                  yeah out of period sort of but the language mishap seeds were definately planted in period.Bambi (To be named ater) TBNL


                  I am made for great things by GOD
                  and walk with Pride!!!!
                  Walladah bint al Mustakfi c 1100ad
                  see me dance
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HMtOoXtMs0




                  ________________________________
                  From: "bronwynmgn@..." <bronwynmgn@...>
                  To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 5:16:47 PM
                  Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question

                   


                  <<

                  Thank you, I knew there was a logical conclusion to this as I didnt have the answer and dont like to call folks out without it!

                  Yours in Humble Service,
                  Pomestnik Dmitrii Ivanov
                  Per saltire sable and azure, a two headed eagle displayed and in chief a mullet of eight points argent

                  "Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it!">>

                  There is also the fact that the English refer to wheat and similar grains as "corn". So you may well run into the word "corn" in a period source, but most likely it refers to a variety of wheat rather than to maize.

                  Brangwana Morgan
                  Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                  Lancaster, PA

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • julian wilson
                  Bambi, some of us are well aware of the pitfalls of foreign languages which contain words like US or UK English, but have altered meanings. Chuckle!! When I
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jun 17, 2010
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                    Bambi, some of us are well aware of the pitfalls of foreign languages which contain words like US or UK English, but have altered meanings. Chuckle!!
                    When I first visited France as a schoolboy, " when the world was young, and the Queen was new, and there were no unclean ideals in the land" [points for anyone recdognising the quotation] -  I stayed with a VIP upper-Middle-Class  family who owned a string of Breweries and Bars throughout Metropolitan France. One of the French words for a [drinking] Bar is "brasserie". I kept on confusing it with "brassiere" to their great amusement, and my considerable embarrassment.
                    Then there are the opportunities to make bi-lingual puns - as in "in Germany, fast food is the würst that can happen to you!" ["würst" being the German word for sausage].
                     When I learned my German, at school over 60 years ago, one of the first nouns we were taught in preparation for a School Exchange Trip to Solingen, was  "Abort" so that if we were "caught-short", - we could ask for directions to the nearest Toilet. Andhow  to find a Policeman - or the local Police Station - it was "SchüPo" or "SchüPoHaus" ["ShüPo" bering short for "SchützPolizei"]
                    Returning to Germany to work, after an absence of decades, I found my school-era German came flooding back - but noticed that many words - "Abort" and "SchüPo" amongst them - had either gone out of use entirely - or changed their meanings.
                    More embarassment while i updated my vocab. and my idioms!
                    However, a compensation [especially when visiting Museums] was that I'd not forgotten how to both write and read the "alte Deutsche Scrift" [still in wide user during my school-age visits] - to the considerable surprise of many Germans younger than I - who had never learned how to do this.

                    Lord Matthewe Baker,
                     [still amused ny the memories!]

                    --- On Thu, 17/6/10, Bambi TBNL <hippy_dippy_dancer@...> wrote:

                    From: Bambi TBNL <hippy_dippy_dancer@...>
                    Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question
                    To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Thursday, 17 June, 2010, 2:15







                     









                    from the dept of boring factoids you never wanted to know

                    if you take a modern german translation of shakespear and

                    an orignal writing of shakes pear...it is pretty sclose word for word...even a lot of the grammer

                    the german  word for grain is Korn

                     the german word for corn is Maize 

                    In germany , Maize is used as annimal fodder because it doe not grow of a humanly marketable quality there.

                    in the late 1940s at the end of WWII when there were no farms with enough to feed the german citizens while they rebuilt their country, the US ,hearing the plea of the  pupolace of war ravage germany, sent a humanitarian gift of corn/maize to feed them.

                    whether accidentally or deliberately , the letter from the newly formed govt had been tranlated incorrectly. in the 1970's I knew people who had been on the receiving end of that debacle and who still could not understand how the US has so callously sent animal fodder to a country whose children were starving.

                    yeah out of period sort of but the language mishap seeds were definately planted in period.Bambi (To be named ater) TBNL



                    I am made for great things by GOD

                    and walk with Pride!!!!

                    Walladah bint al Mustakfi c 1100ad

                    see me dance

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HMtOoXtMs0



                    ________________________________

                    From: "bronwynmgn@..." <bronwynmgn@...>

                    To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com

                    Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 5:16:47 PM

                    Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question



                     



                    <<



                    Thank you, I knew there was a logical conclusion to this as I didnt have the answer and dont like to call folks out without it!



                    Yours in Humble Service,

                    Pomestnik Dmitrii Ivanov

                    Per saltire sable and azure, a two headed eagle displayed and in chief a mullet of eight points argent



                    "Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it!">>



                    There is also the fact that the English refer to wheat and similar grains as "corn". So you may well run into the word "corn" in a period source, but most likely it refers to a variety of wheat rather than to maize.



                    Brangwana Morgan

                    Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom

                    Lancaster, PA



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






















                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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