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RE: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question

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  • Susan Farmer
    ... Corn is a grass -- so yeah, there was *LOTS* of stuff in Europe from the same family. But Corn /Zea mays/ is indeed native to Central and South America.
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 16, 2010
      Quoting christopher chastain <ckchastain@...>:

      >
      > Now this brings a question to my mind. I have had folks tell me corn
      > or maize was new world only and I have had some folks say thats
      > false that Europeans had a crop that was very similar to Maize and
      > of the same family. Now I know I was educated in SC but could
      > someone nail this debate to a close for me please.
      >

      Corn is a grass -- so yeah, there was *LOTS* of stuff in Europe from
      the same family. But Corn /Zea mays/ is indeed native to Central and
      South America. When it was introduced, it was seen mostly as a forage
      crop. There are *still* places in Europe where folks won't eat corn
      (now, that may be a very localized phenomenon) because it's perceived
      as "animal food." Columbus brought some back with him.

      The book that we use as a text (why, no, SCAdians aren't book junkies,
      why do you ask?) is _Economic Botany: Plants in Our World_ by Simpson
      and Ogorzaly.

      jerusha
      -----
      Susan Farmer
      sfarmer@...
      Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College
      Division of Science and Math
      http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/
    • Bambi TBNL
      I so LOVE talk like this!!!  Bambi (To be named ater) TBNL I am made for great things by GOD and walk with Pride!!!! Walladah bint al Mustakfi c 1100ad see me
      Message 2 of 15 , Jun 16, 2010
        I so LOVE talk like this!!!
         Bambi (To be named ater) TBNL


        I am made for great things by GOD
        and walk with Pride!!!!
        Walladah bint al Mustakfi c 1100ad
        see me dance
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HMtOoXtMs0




        ________________________________
        From: Sara L Uckelman <liana@...>
        To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 9:27:14 AM
        Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question

         
        Quoth "Summer":
        > My husband and I were just having an interesting debate. Would there have bee
        > n Jalapeno's in Period Europe? Or would they have just been considered anothe
        > r Chilli?

        Japalenos are native to Mexico, so they wouldn't have shown up
        in Europe until the end of our period. The city that they are
        named after, Xalapa, was visited by the Spanish as early as 1519,
        so it's certainly possible that one of the explorers could've
        taken some back with him, though I don't know of any positive
        evidence to this effect. The earliest reference in English to
        the pepper that the Oxford English Dictionary (s.v. jalap) has
        is from 1675.

        -Aryanhwy

        --
        vita sine literis mors est
        http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • christopher chastain
        Thank you, I knew there was a logical conclusion to this as I didnt have the answer and dont like to call folks out without it! Yours in Humble Service,
        Message 3 of 15 , Jun 16, 2010
          Thank you, I knew there was a logical conclusion to this as I didnt have the answer and dont like to call folks out without it!





          Yours in Humble Service,
          Pomestnik Dmitrii Ivanov
          Per saltire sable and azure, a two headed eagle displayed and in chief a mullet of eight points argent


          "Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it!"








          To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
          From: sfarmer@...
          Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 11:50:12 -0400
          Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question





          Quoting christopher chastain <ckchastain@...>:

          >
          > Now this brings a question to my mind. I have had folks tell me corn
          > or maize was new world only and I have had some folks say thats
          > false that Europeans had a crop that was very similar to Maize and
          > of the same family. Now I know I was educated in SC but could
          > someone nail this debate to a close for me please.
          >

          Corn is a grass -- so yeah, there was *LOTS* of stuff in Europe from
          the same family. But Corn /Zea mays/ is indeed native to Central and
          South America. When it was introduced, it was seen mostly as a forage
          crop. There are *still* places in Europe where folks won't eat corn
          (now, that may be a very localized phenomenon) because it's perceived
          as "animal food." Columbus brought some back with him.

          The book that we use as a text (why, no, SCAdians aren't book junkies,
          why do you ask?) is _Economic Botany: Plants in Our World_ by Simpson
          and Ogorzaly.

          jerusha
          -----
          Susan Farmer
          sfarmer@...
          Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College
          Division of Science and Math
          http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/





          _________________________________________________________________
          Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox.
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Kristen Praiswater
          They would have been considered a chili.  Most of of our peppers that we have now were new world foods back then.  I help run a kitchen demo, so I have to
          Message 4 of 15 , Jun 16, 2010
            They would have been considered a chili.  Most of of our peppers that we have now were new world foods back then.  I help run a kitchen demo, so I have to know my stuff.  Hope this helps your debate.
             
            Sherrif of Seleone
            Valentina Elisabetta della Luna
            aka
            Kristen Praiswater
             


            --- On Wed, 6/16/10, Summer <cowboysladygoneinsane@...> wrote:


            From: Summer <cowboysladygoneinsane@...>
            Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question
            To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 12:20 AM


             



            My husband and I were just having an interesting debate. Would there have been Jalapeno's in Period Europe? Or would they have just been considered another Chilli?











            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Kyla
            I think part of the confusion comes from the use of terms. Historically, the word corn has sometimes meant the most common grain grown in an area - I m a
            Message 5 of 15 , Jun 16, 2010
              I think part of the confusion comes from the use of terms.

              Historically, the word corn has sometimes meant the most common grain grown
              in an area - I'm a little fuzzy on the details of what constitutes an area -
              so the word could be referring to wheat or barley, or any other grain.

              The new world only grew one grain crop - maize - so that was the 'corn' of
              the region.

              You can see how that might have helped to confuse the issue.
              Americans say 'corn' when they mean 'maize', and Europeans think they
              understand the question, but they might be answering by talking about rye or
              millet.

              It always helps to define the terms used.

              Tabitha Pennywarden
              Ravenslake, Midlands
              Middle Kingdom

              -----Original Message-----
              From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com]On
              Behalf Of christopher chastain
              Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:03 AM
              To: SCA New Comers
              Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question




              Thank you, I knew there was a logical conclusion to this as I didnt have
              the answer and dont like to call folks out without it!

              Yours in Humble Service,
              Pomestnik Dmitrii Ivanov
              Per saltire sable and azure, a two headed eagle displayed and in chief a
              mullet of eight points argent

              "Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it!"


              To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
              From: sfarmer@...
              Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 11:50:12 -0400
              Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question

              Quoting christopher chastain <ckchastain@...>:

              >
              > Now this brings a question to my mind. I have had folks tell me corn
              > or maize was new world only and I have had some folks say thats
              > false that Europeans had a crop that was very similar to Maize and
              > of the same family. Now I know I was educated in SC but could
              > someone nail this debate to a close for me please.
              >

              Corn is a grass -- so yeah, there was *LOTS* of stuff in Europe from
              the same family. But Corn /Zea mays/ is indeed native to Central and
              South America. When it was introduced, it was seen mostly as a forage
              crop. There are *still* places in Europe where folks won't eat corn
              (now, that may be a very localized phenomenon) because it's perceived
              as "animal food." Columbus brought some back with him.

              The book that we use as a text (why, no, SCAdians aren't book junkies,
              why do you ask?) is _Economic Botany: Plants in Our World_ by Simpson
              and Ogorzaly.

              jerusha
              -----
              Susan Farmer
              sfarmer@...
              Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College
              Division of Science and Math
              http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/


              __________________________________________________________
              Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your
              inbox.

              http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:W
              L:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Nicole Davis
              Actually yes it did because it gave me a new area to research into to get a decent time frame for when chili s came to europe, around 1493 when Columbus came
              Message 6 of 15 , Jun 16, 2010
                Actually yes it did because it gave me a new area to research into to get a decent time frame for when chili's came to europe, around 1493 when Columbus came back after visiting The New World again





                ________________________________
                From: Kristen Praiswater <spellsinger28@...>
                To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 9:32:33 AM
                Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question


                They would have been considered a chili. Most of of our peppers that we have now were new world foods back then. I help run a kitchen demo, so I have to know my stuff. Hope this helps your debate.

                Sherrif of Seleone
                Valentina Elisabetta della Luna
                aka
                Kristen Praiswater


                --- On Wed, 6/16/10, Summer <cowboysladygoneinsane@...> wrote:

                From: Summer <cowboysladygoneinsane@...>
                Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question
                To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 12:20 AM



                My husband and I were just having an interesting debate. Would there have been Jalapeno's in Period Europe? Or would they have just been considered another Chilli?

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Kristen Praiswater
                I m glad it helped you.    ... From: Nicole Davis Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question To:
                Message 7 of 15 , Jun 16, 2010
                  I'm glad it helped you. 
                   


                  --- On Wed, 6/16/10, Nicole Davis <cowboysladygoneinsane@...> wrote:


                  From: Nicole Davis <cowboysladygoneinsane@...>
                  Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question
                  To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 12:41 PM


                   



                  Actually yes it did because it gave me a new area to research into to get a decent time frame for when chili's came to europe, around 1493 when Columbus came back after visiting The New World again

                  ________________________________
                  From: Kristen Praiswater <spellsinger28@...>
                  To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 9:32:33 AM
                  Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question

                  They would have been considered a chili. Most of of our peppers that we have now were new world foods back then. I help run a kitchen demo, so I have to know my stuff. Hope this helps your debate.

                  Sherrif of Seleone
                  Valentina Elisabetta della Luna
                  aka
                  Kristen Praiswater


                  --- On Wed, 6/16/10, Summer <cowboysladygoneinsane@...> wrote:

                  From: Summer <cowboysladygoneinsane@...>
                  Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question
                  To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 12:20 AM

                  My husband and I were just having an interesting debate. Would there have been Jalapeno's in Period Europe? Or would they have just been considered another Chilli?

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • bronwynmgn@aol.com
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jun 16, 2010
                    <<


                    Thank you, I knew there was a logical conclusion to this as I didnt have the answer and dont like to call folks out without it!

                    Yours in Humble Service,
                    Pomestnik Dmitrii Ivanov
                    Per saltire sable and azure, a two headed eagle displayed and in chief a mullet of eight points argent

                    "Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it!">>


                    There is also the fact that the English refer to wheat and similar grains as "corn". So you may well run into the word "corn" in a period source, but most likely it refers to a variety of wheat rather than to maize.

                    Brangwana Morgan
                    Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                    Lancaster, PA




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Bambi TBNL
                    from the dept of boring factoids you never wanted to know if you take a modern german translation of shakespear and an orignal writing of shakes pear...it is
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jun 16, 2010
                      from the dept of boring factoids you never wanted to know
                      if you take a modern german translation of shakespear and
                      an orignal writing of shakes pear...it is pretty sclose word for word...even a lot of the grammer
                      the german  word for grain is Korn
                       the german word for corn is Maize 
                      In germany , Maize is used as annimal fodder because it doe not grow of a humanly marketable quality there.
                      in the late 1940s at the end of WWII when there were no farms with enough to feed the german citizens while they rebuilt their country, the US ,hearing the plea of the  pupolace of war ravage germany, sent a humanitarian gift of corn/maize to feed them.
                      whether accidentally or deliberately , the letter from the newly formed govt had been tranlated incorrectly. in the 1970's I knew people who had been on the receiving end of that debacle and who still could not understand how the US has so callously sent animal fodder to a country whose children were starving.
                      yeah out of period sort of but the language mishap seeds were definately planted in period.Bambi (To be named ater) TBNL


                      I am made for great things by GOD
                      and walk with Pride!!!!
                      Walladah bint al Mustakfi c 1100ad
                      see me dance
                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HMtOoXtMs0




                      ________________________________
                      From: "bronwynmgn@..." <bronwynmgn@...>
                      To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 5:16:47 PM
                      Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question

                       


                      <<

                      Thank you, I knew there was a logical conclusion to this as I didnt have the answer and dont like to call folks out without it!

                      Yours in Humble Service,
                      Pomestnik Dmitrii Ivanov
                      Per saltire sable and azure, a two headed eagle displayed and in chief a mullet of eight points argent

                      "Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it!">>

                      There is also the fact that the English refer to wheat and similar grains as "corn". So you may well run into the word "corn" in a period source, but most likely it refers to a variety of wheat rather than to maize.

                      Brangwana Morgan
                      Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                      Lancaster, PA

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • julian wilson
                      Bambi, some of us are well aware of the pitfalls of foreign languages which contain words like US or UK English, but have altered meanings. Chuckle!! When I
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jun 17, 2010
                        Bambi, some of us are well aware of the pitfalls of foreign languages which contain words like US or UK English, but have altered meanings. Chuckle!!
                        When I first visited France as a schoolboy, " when the world was young, and the Queen was new, and there were no unclean ideals in the land" [points for anyone recdognising the quotation] -  I stayed with a VIP upper-Middle-Class  family who owned a string of Breweries and Bars throughout Metropolitan France. One of the French words for a [drinking] Bar is "brasserie". I kept on confusing it with "brassiere" to their great amusement, and my considerable embarrassment.
                        Then there are the opportunities to make bi-lingual puns - as in "in Germany, fast food is the würst that can happen to you!" ["würst" being the German word for sausage].
                         When I learned my German, at school over 60 years ago, one of the first nouns we were taught in preparation for a School Exchange Trip to Solingen, was  "Abort" so that if we were "caught-short", - we could ask for directions to the nearest Toilet. Andhow  to find a Policeman - or the local Police Station - it was "SchüPo" or "SchüPoHaus" ["ShüPo" bering short for "SchützPolizei"]
                        Returning to Germany to work, after an absence of decades, I found my school-era German came flooding back - but noticed that many words - "Abort" and "SchüPo" amongst them - had either gone out of use entirely - or changed their meanings.
                        More embarassment while i updated my vocab. and my idioms!
                        However, a compensation [especially when visiting Museums] was that I'd not forgotten how to both write and read the "alte Deutsche Scrift" [still in wide user during my school-age visits] - to the considerable surprise of many Germans younger than I - who had never learned how to do this.

                        Lord Matthewe Baker,
                         [still amused ny the memories!]

                        --- On Thu, 17/6/10, Bambi TBNL <hippy_dippy_dancer@...> wrote:

                        From: Bambi TBNL <hippy_dippy_dancer@...>
                        Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question
                        To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Thursday, 17 June, 2010, 2:15







                         









                        from the dept of boring factoids you never wanted to know

                        if you take a modern german translation of shakespear and

                        an orignal writing of shakes pear...it is pretty sclose word for word...even a lot of the grammer

                        the german  word for grain is Korn

                         the german word for corn is Maize 

                        In germany , Maize is used as annimal fodder because it doe not grow of a humanly marketable quality there.

                        in the late 1940s at the end of WWII when there were no farms with enough to feed the german citizens while they rebuilt their country, the US ,hearing the plea of the  pupolace of war ravage germany, sent a humanitarian gift of corn/maize to feed them.

                        whether accidentally or deliberately , the letter from the newly formed govt had been tranlated incorrectly. in the 1970's I knew people who had been on the receiving end of that debacle and who still could not understand how the US has so callously sent animal fodder to a country whose children were starving.

                        yeah out of period sort of but the language mishap seeds were definately planted in period.Bambi (To be named ater) TBNL



                        I am made for great things by GOD

                        and walk with Pride!!!!

                        Walladah bint al Mustakfi c 1100ad

                        see me dance

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HMtOoXtMs0



                        ________________________________

                        From: "bronwynmgn@..." <bronwynmgn@...>

                        To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com

                        Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 5:16:47 PM

                        Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question



                         



                        <<



                        Thank you, I knew there was a logical conclusion to this as I didnt have the answer and dont like to call folks out without it!



                        Yours in Humble Service,

                        Pomestnik Dmitrii Ivanov

                        Per saltire sable and azure, a two headed eagle displayed and in chief a mullet of eight points argent



                        "Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it!">>



                        There is also the fact that the English refer to wheat and similar grains as "corn". So you may well run into the word "corn" in a period source, but most likely it refers to a variety of wheat rather than to maize.



                        Brangwana Morgan

                        Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom

                        Lancaster, PA



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






















                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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