Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

RE: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question

Expand Messages
  • christopher chastain
    Now this brings a question to my mind. I have had folks tell me corn or maize was new world only and I have had some folks say thats false that Europeans had a
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 16, 2010
      Now this brings a question to my mind. I have had folks tell me corn or maize was new world only and I have had some folks say thats false that Europeans had a crop that was very similar to Maize and of the same family. Now I know I was educated in SC but could someone nail this debate to a close for me please.





      Yours in Humble Service,
      Pomestnik Dmitrii Ivanov
      Per saltire sable and azure, a two headed eagle displayed and in chief a mullet of eight points argent


      "Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it!"








      To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
      From: sfarmer@...
      Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 11:28:36 -0400
      Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question





      Quoting Summer <cowboysladygoneinsane@...>:

      > My husband and I were just having an interesting debate. Would there
      > have been Jalapeno's in Period Europe? Or would they have just been
      > considered another Chilli?
      >

      Peppers are new world plants -- as are *most* Solaneaceous plants.
      Eggplant is native to Asia, but peppers (not /Piper nigrum/, aka Black
      pepper), tomatoes and potatoes are all new world.

      jerusha the botanist
      -----
      Susan Farmer
      sfarmer@...
      Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College
      Division of Science and Math
      http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/





      _________________________________________________________________
      The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail.
      http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Susan Farmer
      ... Corn is a grass -- so yeah, there was *LOTS* of stuff in Europe from the same family. But Corn /Zea mays/ is indeed native to Central and South America.
      Message 2 of 15 , Jun 16, 2010
        Quoting christopher chastain <ckchastain@...>:

        >
        > Now this brings a question to my mind. I have had folks tell me corn
        > or maize was new world only and I have had some folks say thats
        > false that Europeans had a crop that was very similar to Maize and
        > of the same family. Now I know I was educated in SC but could
        > someone nail this debate to a close for me please.
        >

        Corn is a grass -- so yeah, there was *LOTS* of stuff in Europe from
        the same family. But Corn /Zea mays/ is indeed native to Central and
        South America. When it was introduced, it was seen mostly as a forage
        crop. There are *still* places in Europe where folks won't eat corn
        (now, that may be a very localized phenomenon) because it's perceived
        as "animal food." Columbus brought some back with him.

        The book that we use as a text (why, no, SCAdians aren't book junkies,
        why do you ask?) is _Economic Botany: Plants in Our World_ by Simpson
        and Ogorzaly.

        jerusha
        -----
        Susan Farmer
        sfarmer@...
        Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College
        Division of Science and Math
        http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/
      • Bambi TBNL
        I so LOVE talk like this!!!  Bambi (To be named ater) TBNL I am made for great things by GOD and walk with Pride!!!! Walladah bint al Mustakfi c 1100ad see me
        Message 3 of 15 , Jun 16, 2010
          I so LOVE talk like this!!!
           Bambi (To be named ater) TBNL


          I am made for great things by GOD
          and walk with Pride!!!!
          Walladah bint al Mustakfi c 1100ad
          see me dance
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HMtOoXtMs0




          ________________________________
          From: Sara L Uckelman <liana@...>
          To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 9:27:14 AM
          Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question

           
          Quoth "Summer":
          > My husband and I were just having an interesting debate. Would there have bee
          > n Jalapeno's in Period Europe? Or would they have just been considered anothe
          > r Chilli?

          Japalenos are native to Mexico, so they wouldn't have shown up
          in Europe until the end of our period. The city that they are
          named after, Xalapa, was visited by the Spanish as early as 1519,
          so it's certainly possible that one of the explorers could've
          taken some back with him, though I don't know of any positive
          evidence to this effect. The earliest reference in English to
          the pepper that the Oxford English Dictionary (s.v. jalap) has
          is from 1675.

          -Aryanhwy

          --
          vita sine literis mors est
          http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • christopher chastain
          Thank you, I knew there was a logical conclusion to this as I didnt have the answer and dont like to call folks out without it! Yours in Humble Service,
          Message 4 of 15 , Jun 16, 2010
            Thank you, I knew there was a logical conclusion to this as I didnt have the answer and dont like to call folks out without it!





            Yours in Humble Service,
            Pomestnik Dmitrii Ivanov
            Per saltire sable and azure, a two headed eagle displayed and in chief a mullet of eight points argent


            "Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it!"








            To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
            From: sfarmer@...
            Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 11:50:12 -0400
            Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question





            Quoting christopher chastain <ckchastain@...>:

            >
            > Now this brings a question to my mind. I have had folks tell me corn
            > or maize was new world only and I have had some folks say thats
            > false that Europeans had a crop that was very similar to Maize and
            > of the same family. Now I know I was educated in SC but could
            > someone nail this debate to a close for me please.
            >

            Corn is a grass -- so yeah, there was *LOTS* of stuff in Europe from
            the same family. But Corn /Zea mays/ is indeed native to Central and
            South America. When it was introduced, it was seen mostly as a forage
            crop. There are *still* places in Europe where folks won't eat corn
            (now, that may be a very localized phenomenon) because it's perceived
            as "animal food." Columbus brought some back with him.

            The book that we use as a text (why, no, SCAdians aren't book junkies,
            why do you ask?) is _Economic Botany: Plants in Our World_ by Simpson
            and Ogorzaly.

            jerusha
            -----
            Susan Farmer
            sfarmer@...
            Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College
            Division of Science and Math
            http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/





            _________________________________________________________________
            Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox.
            http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Kristen Praiswater
            They would have been considered a chili.  Most of of our peppers that we have now were new world foods back then.  I help run a kitchen demo, so I have to
            Message 5 of 15 , Jun 16, 2010
              They would have been considered a chili.  Most of of our peppers that we have now were new world foods back then.  I help run a kitchen demo, so I have to know my stuff.  Hope this helps your debate.
               
              Sherrif of Seleone
              Valentina Elisabetta della Luna
              aka
              Kristen Praiswater
               


              --- On Wed, 6/16/10, Summer <cowboysladygoneinsane@...> wrote:


              From: Summer <cowboysladygoneinsane@...>
              Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question
              To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 12:20 AM


               



              My husband and I were just having an interesting debate. Would there have been Jalapeno's in Period Europe? Or would they have just been considered another Chilli?











              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Kyla
              I think part of the confusion comes from the use of terms. Historically, the word corn has sometimes meant the most common grain grown in an area - I m a
              Message 6 of 15 , Jun 16, 2010
                I think part of the confusion comes from the use of terms.

                Historically, the word corn has sometimes meant the most common grain grown
                in an area - I'm a little fuzzy on the details of what constitutes an area -
                so the word could be referring to wheat or barley, or any other grain.

                The new world only grew one grain crop - maize - so that was the 'corn' of
                the region.

                You can see how that might have helped to confuse the issue.
                Americans say 'corn' when they mean 'maize', and Europeans think they
                understand the question, but they might be answering by talking about rye or
                millet.

                It always helps to define the terms used.

                Tabitha Pennywarden
                Ravenslake, Midlands
                Middle Kingdom

                -----Original Message-----
                From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com]On
                Behalf Of christopher chastain
                Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:03 AM
                To: SCA New Comers
                Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question




                Thank you, I knew there was a logical conclusion to this as I didnt have
                the answer and dont like to call folks out without it!

                Yours in Humble Service,
                Pomestnik Dmitrii Ivanov
                Per saltire sable and azure, a two headed eagle displayed and in chief a
                mullet of eight points argent

                "Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it!"


                To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                From: sfarmer@...
                Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 11:50:12 -0400
                Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question

                Quoting christopher chastain <ckchastain@...>:

                >
                > Now this brings a question to my mind. I have had folks tell me corn
                > or maize was new world only and I have had some folks say thats
                > false that Europeans had a crop that was very similar to Maize and
                > of the same family. Now I know I was educated in SC but could
                > someone nail this debate to a close for me please.
                >

                Corn is a grass -- so yeah, there was *LOTS* of stuff in Europe from
                the same family. But Corn /Zea mays/ is indeed native to Central and
                South America. When it was introduced, it was seen mostly as a forage
                crop. There are *still* places in Europe where folks won't eat corn
                (now, that may be a very localized phenomenon) because it's perceived
                as "animal food." Columbus brought some back with him.

                The book that we use as a text (why, no, SCAdians aren't book junkies,
                why do you ask?) is _Economic Botany: Plants in Our World_ by Simpson
                and Ogorzaly.

                jerusha
                -----
                Susan Farmer
                sfarmer@...
                Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College
                Division of Science and Math
                http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/


                __________________________________________________________
                Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your
                inbox.

                http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:W
                L:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Nicole Davis
                Actually yes it did because it gave me a new area to research into to get a decent time frame for when chili s came to europe, around 1493 when Columbus came
                Message 7 of 15 , Jun 16, 2010
                  Actually yes it did because it gave me a new area to research into to get a decent time frame for when chili's came to europe, around 1493 when Columbus came back after visiting The New World again





                  ________________________________
                  From: Kristen Praiswater <spellsinger28@...>
                  To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 9:32:33 AM
                  Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question


                  They would have been considered a chili. Most of of our peppers that we have now were new world foods back then. I help run a kitchen demo, so I have to know my stuff. Hope this helps your debate.

                  Sherrif of Seleone
                  Valentina Elisabetta della Luna
                  aka
                  Kristen Praiswater


                  --- On Wed, 6/16/10, Summer <cowboysladygoneinsane@...> wrote:

                  From: Summer <cowboysladygoneinsane@...>
                  Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question
                  To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 12:20 AM



                  My husband and I were just having an interesting debate. Would there have been Jalapeno's in Period Europe? Or would they have just been considered another Chilli?

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Kristen Praiswater
                  I m glad it helped you.    ... From: Nicole Davis Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question To:
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jun 16, 2010
                    I'm glad it helped you. 
                     


                    --- On Wed, 6/16/10, Nicole Davis <cowboysladygoneinsane@...> wrote:


                    From: Nicole Davis <cowboysladygoneinsane@...>
                    Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question
                    To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 12:41 PM


                     



                    Actually yes it did because it gave me a new area to research into to get a decent time frame for when chili's came to europe, around 1493 when Columbus came back after visiting The New World again

                    ________________________________
                    From: Kristen Praiswater <spellsinger28@...>
                    To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 9:32:33 AM
                    Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question

                    They would have been considered a chili. Most of of our peppers that we have now were new world foods back then. I help run a kitchen demo, so I have to know my stuff. Hope this helps your debate.

                    Sherrif of Seleone
                    Valentina Elisabetta della Luna
                    aka
                    Kristen Praiswater


                    --- On Wed, 6/16/10, Summer <cowboysladygoneinsane@...> wrote:

                    From: Summer <cowboysladygoneinsane@...>
                    Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question
                    To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 12:20 AM

                    My husband and I were just having an interesting debate. Would there have been Jalapeno's in Period Europe? Or would they have just been considered another Chilli?

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • bronwynmgn@aol.com
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jun 16, 2010
                      <<


                      Thank you, I knew there was a logical conclusion to this as I didnt have the answer and dont like to call folks out without it!

                      Yours in Humble Service,
                      Pomestnik Dmitrii Ivanov
                      Per saltire sable and azure, a two headed eagle displayed and in chief a mullet of eight points argent

                      "Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it!">>


                      There is also the fact that the English refer to wheat and similar grains as "corn". So you may well run into the word "corn" in a period source, but most likely it refers to a variety of wheat rather than to maize.

                      Brangwana Morgan
                      Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                      Lancaster, PA




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Bambi TBNL
                      from the dept of boring factoids you never wanted to know if you take a modern german translation of shakespear and an orignal writing of shakes pear...it is
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jun 16, 2010
                        from the dept of boring factoids you never wanted to know
                        if you take a modern german translation of shakespear and
                        an orignal writing of shakes pear...it is pretty sclose word for word...even a lot of the grammer
                        the german  word for grain is Korn
                         the german word for corn is Maize 
                        In germany , Maize is used as annimal fodder because it doe not grow of a humanly marketable quality there.
                        in the late 1940s at the end of WWII when there were no farms with enough to feed the german citizens while they rebuilt their country, the US ,hearing the plea of the  pupolace of war ravage germany, sent a humanitarian gift of corn/maize to feed them.
                        whether accidentally or deliberately , the letter from the newly formed govt had been tranlated incorrectly. in the 1970's I knew people who had been on the receiving end of that debacle and who still could not understand how the US has so callously sent animal fodder to a country whose children were starving.
                        yeah out of period sort of but the language mishap seeds were definately planted in period.Bambi (To be named ater) TBNL


                        I am made for great things by GOD
                        and walk with Pride!!!!
                        Walladah bint al Mustakfi c 1100ad
                        see me dance
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HMtOoXtMs0




                        ________________________________
                        From: "bronwynmgn@..." <bronwynmgn@...>
                        To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 5:16:47 PM
                        Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question

                         


                        <<

                        Thank you, I knew there was a logical conclusion to this as I didnt have the answer and dont like to call folks out without it!

                        Yours in Humble Service,
                        Pomestnik Dmitrii Ivanov
                        Per saltire sable and azure, a two headed eagle displayed and in chief a mullet of eight points argent

                        "Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it!">>

                        There is also the fact that the English refer to wheat and similar grains as "corn". So you may well run into the word "corn" in a period source, but most likely it refers to a variety of wheat rather than to maize.

                        Brangwana Morgan
                        Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                        Lancaster, PA

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • julian wilson
                        Bambi, some of us are well aware of the pitfalls of foreign languages which contain words like US or UK English, but have altered meanings. Chuckle!! When I
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jun 17, 2010
                          Bambi, some of us are well aware of the pitfalls of foreign languages which contain words like US or UK English, but have altered meanings. Chuckle!!
                          When I first visited France as a schoolboy, " when the world was young, and the Queen was new, and there were no unclean ideals in the land" [points for anyone recdognising the quotation] -  I stayed with a VIP upper-Middle-Class  family who owned a string of Breweries and Bars throughout Metropolitan France. One of the French words for a [drinking] Bar is "brasserie". I kept on confusing it with "brassiere" to their great amusement, and my considerable embarrassment.
                          Then there are the opportunities to make bi-lingual puns - as in "in Germany, fast food is the würst that can happen to you!" ["würst" being the German word for sausage].
                           When I learned my German, at school over 60 years ago, one of the first nouns we were taught in preparation for a School Exchange Trip to Solingen, was  "Abort" so that if we were "caught-short", - we could ask for directions to the nearest Toilet. Andhow  to find a Policeman - or the local Police Station - it was "SchüPo" or "SchüPoHaus" ["ShüPo" bering short for "SchützPolizei"]
                          Returning to Germany to work, after an absence of decades, I found my school-era German came flooding back - but noticed that many words - "Abort" and "SchüPo" amongst them - had either gone out of use entirely - or changed their meanings.
                          More embarassment while i updated my vocab. and my idioms!
                          However, a compensation [especially when visiting Museums] was that I'd not forgotten how to both write and read the "alte Deutsche Scrift" [still in wide user during my school-age visits] - to the considerable surprise of many Germans younger than I - who had never learned how to do this.

                          Lord Matthewe Baker,
                           [still amused ny the memories!]

                          --- On Thu, 17/6/10, Bambi TBNL <hippy_dippy_dancer@...> wrote:

                          From: Bambi TBNL <hippy_dippy_dancer@...>
                          Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question
                          To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Thursday, 17 June, 2010, 2:15







                           









                          from the dept of boring factoids you never wanted to know

                          if you take a modern german translation of shakespear and

                          an orignal writing of shakes pear...it is pretty sclose word for word...even a lot of the grammer

                          the german  word for grain is Korn

                           the german word for corn is Maize 

                          In germany , Maize is used as annimal fodder because it doe not grow of a humanly marketable quality there.

                          in the late 1940s at the end of WWII when there were no farms with enough to feed the german citizens while they rebuilt their country, the US ,hearing the plea of the  pupolace of war ravage germany, sent a humanitarian gift of corn/maize to feed them.

                          whether accidentally or deliberately , the letter from the newly formed govt had been tranlated incorrectly. in the 1970's I knew people who had been on the receiving end of that debacle and who still could not understand how the US has so callously sent animal fodder to a country whose children were starving.

                          yeah out of period sort of but the language mishap seeds were definately planted in period.Bambi (To be named ater) TBNL



                          I am made for great things by GOD

                          and walk with Pride!!!!

                          Walladah bint al Mustakfi c 1100ad

                          see me dance

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HMtOoXtMs0



                          ________________________________

                          From: "bronwynmgn@..." <bronwynmgn@...>

                          To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com

                          Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 5:16:47 PM

                          Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Interesting Question



                           



                          <<



                          Thank you, I knew there was a logical conclusion to this as I didnt have the answer and dont like to call folks out without it!



                          Yours in Humble Service,

                          Pomestnik Dmitrii Ivanov

                          Per saltire sable and azure, a two headed eagle displayed and in chief a mullet of eight points argent



                          "Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it!">>



                          There is also the fact that the English refer to wheat and similar grains as "corn". So you may well run into the word "corn" in a period source, but most likely it refers to a variety of wheat rather than to maize.



                          Brangwana Morgan

                          Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom

                          Lancaster, PA



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






















                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.