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Re: [SCA Newcomers] (no subject)

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  • bronwynmgn@aol.com
    Message 1 of 9 , May 6, 2010
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      <<I'm finding that getting the right clothing to be very difficult. Some say getting a medieval pattern from the internet is good. Others say you HAVE to be 100% authentic, your clothing have to reflect your period. How do we really know? All we really have to go by are paintings and written descriptions. I'm having a hard time finding "authentic" patterns in anything other then peasant clothing. I ordered some book to see if I can come up with my own patterns, but will that be considered authentic dress or will I be scuffed at? I've gotten some sights from some of you before (many thanks) but all of the above is what I've run into. I have a dress that I got from the Ren-Fest, and no it's not a wench outfit. It's a gown with an under skirt and a silk under dress and an A-line outer dress. I was told it wouldn't work because it wasn't anything that would have been worn during that time. I seriously need some help. Send me pics of your cloths or of
      patterns...SOMETHING...I don't really want to create my persona around a peasant dress. Thank you all so much!!! I know I've asked a lot of questions on this subject so I thank you all for being patient with me.

      DeAnna>>

      Hi, DeAnna,

      The problem is that SCA rules are very vague about clothing. All they say is that you must wear "an attempt at clothing from before 1600". It says nothing about how good the attempt must be. So what you are hearing are different people's opinions of what constitutes "an attempt". I'm a Laurel and a die-hard authenticist, but I started from the Ren Faire myself. I wouldn't now wear any of the clothing I started out with (including wench outfits) - but the vast majority of it is in, and stays in, our shire loaner clothing, because it's a valid attempt. We know they didn't use A-line patterning in the middle ages, but it still sounds to me as if that dress would be an appropriate attempt.

      What patterns or website would be helpful to you depends greatly on what time period and culture you are considering. Italian Rennaissance clothing is vastly different from 12th century English clothing or 16th century Spanish clothing. Where and when you are interested in also makes a difference in whether or not any extant clothing survives - and actually, there is a fair amount of extant clothing, and most of it ISN'T peasant clothing - mostly it's noble or religious clothing.

      If you can give us a little more idea of what you are interested in, I'm sure some of us can point you towards more historically correct patterns or clothing from vendors. But you ARE NOT required to have as close to 100% authentic clothing as is humanly possible - not when you start in the SCA, and not ever. How accurate you want to get is, in the end, up to you.

      Brangwayna Morgan
      Shire of Silver Rlle, East Kingdom
      Lancaster, PA




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Bambi TBNL
      Deanna FIrst of all , WElcome to the wonderfu l contradicition the IS the SCA..( that is Society for CREATIV Anachronisms NOT the SOciety for Compulsive
      Message 2 of 9 , May 6, 2010
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        Deanna

        FIrst of all , WElcome to the wonderfu l contradicition the IS the SCA..( that is Society for CREATIV Anachronisms NOT the SOciety for Compulsive Authenticity!)
        I know folks who are Laurels and Pelicans and yeah even a few former Queens  (who shall remain nameless!!! giggle)who did not worry about it. Their first attempted Garb were things like, (I f Im lyin Im Dyin!!) an Orange Moomoo with brown silouoettes of hula dancers in the border and a ruffled collar) a pair of scrubs (hey they had draw string pants and a tunic shirt with no modern clsure for pitys sake!)
        and, yeah it was some time ago but one of my oldest aquaintances in the SCA was wearing a bunnyfur bikini the first time her Brother I believe , won crown for her..( the first thing she was asked as they realized he had won was..."honey do you even OWN a dress?")
        Now I am not for one minute encouraging anyone going through that...after all I always tell my students I make mistakes so you dont have to, but you dont have to WIN and competitions you first time out.  The SCa covers a wide time line and geographical scope. nomatter what you think you are interested in the first tim you go...you will at least look @ the shmorgasboard of people, garb and  interests and  want a little time to focus ANd in a coudple of years, you might actually ove on to another whole persona/period/geographical culture.
        Loaner Garb is a safe bet for you first event. contact the gold Key of the event and let them know what you need, ( are you male female? approximate hieght and measurements )
        Noe I will admit, as a 6 ft @ the time 200lb tall woman, I did not follow my own advice , BUT, I did have an ace in the hole. I had just maet a Woman who was a Laurel in Clothing in the SCA who had invited me to my first event and..wouldnt you now it..she actually had a line of patterns she had produced herself with pages and pages of foot notes.
        So I got lucky, my first event was Garbwars... which is something like Iron Chef for SCA Garb folks. I was on her team and she told me if I brought the fabric I could keep the dress. She loaned me a Houpelande which should fit almost anyone, and I wore it till the dress was finished an I could change into it for the judging and dinner afterwards.
        It was actually a prototype for a pattern she marketed years later...the german ren pattern from Period
        PAtterns.
        Oh yeah, our team won.
        But especially if you are going to an outdoor event which from now till October is a pretty safe bet, you probably wont need to start you first event  in something velvet embroidered in gold thread(just kidding you may NEVER need that)
        What ever "historic"pattern you find made out of natural fabrics (trust me on that one) will be fine. you can always fine tuen later after you have decided you need more than one garment. If you cannot find real linen where you are, some of the homespun cottens will do just fine in a stripe and most of them come in acceptable color combinations. there are also natural fiber upholstery fabrics that work. becarful not to purchase anything with a backing that will not breath or worse crunch. you an learn to deal with that later if you REALL want to.
        as far as under garments like under tunics ot chemises. my first one was out of discarded sheet that was nice and soft and 100% cotton...not great and it only made it through 1 event before it ripped beyond beliefe but I was actually able to buy linen @ the event and replace it for the next one. (LOL)
        I have been in 21 years and just when I get something right that I really like , something like my my body changes...and I gotta start all over again...and sometimes...I dont get it right....but it is all good. you can always relegate the piece you dont like to your"helping in the kitchen" garb or your "setting up camp" garb or your "wear this thing under my armor" garb...
        Enojoy honey!

        Lady Maria Beatriz la Mora aka Khalillah Bint Temur CoP  WIndmasters Hill, Atlantia



         Bambi (To be named later) TBNL


        I am made for great things by GOD
        and walk with Pride!!!!
        Walladah bint al Mustakfi c 1100ad
        see me dance
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HMtOoXtMs0




        ________________________________
        From: "bronwynmgn@..." <bronwynmgn@...>
        To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thu, May 6, 2010 4:51:17 PM
        Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] (no subject)

         


        <<I'm finding that getting the right clothing to be very difficult. Some say getting a medieval pattern from the internet is good. Others say you HAVE to be 100% authentic, your clothing have to reflect your period. How do we really know? All we really have to go by are paintings and written descriptions. I'm having a hard time finding "authentic" patterns in anything other then peasant clothing. I ordered some book to see if I can come up with my own patterns, but will that be considered authentic dress or will I be scuffed at? I've gotten some sights from some of you before (many thanks) but all of the above is what I've run into. I have a dress that I got from the Ren-Fest, and no it's not a wench outfit. It's a gown with an under skirt and a silk under dress and an A-line outer dress. I was told it wouldn't work because it wasn't anything that would have been worn during that time. I seriously need some help. Send me pics of your cloths or of
        patterns...SOMETHIN G...I don't really want to create my persona around a peasant dress. Thank you all so much!!! I know I've asked a lot of questions on this subject so I thank you all for being patient with me.

        DeAnna>>

        Hi, DeAnna,

        The problem is that SCA rules are very vague about clothing. All they say is that you must wear "an attempt at clothing from before 1600". It says nothing about how good the attempt must be. So what you are hearing are different people's opinions of what constitutes "an attempt". I'm a Laurel and a die-hard authenticist, but I started from the Ren Faire myself. I wouldn't now wear any of the clothing I started out with (including wench outfits) - but the vast majority of it is in, and stays in, our shire loaner clothing, because it's a valid attempt. We know they didn't use A-line patterning in the middle ages, but it still sounds to me as if that dress would be an appropriate attempt.

        What patterns or website would be helpful to you depends greatly on what time period and culture you are considering. Italian Rennaissance clothing is vastly different from 12th century English clothing or 16th century Spanish clothing. Where and when you are interested in also makes a difference in whether or not any extant clothing survives - and actually, there is a fair amount of extant clothing, and most of it ISN'T peasant clothing - mostly it's noble or religious clothing.

        If you can give us a little more idea of what you are interested in, I'm sure some of us can point you towards more historically correct patterns or clothing from vendors. But you ARE NOT required to have as close to 100% authentic clothing as is humanly possible - not when you start in the SCA, and not ever. How accurate you want to get is, in the end, up to you.

        Brangwayna Morgan
        Shire of Silver Rlle, East Kingdom
        Lancaster, PA

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Muninn
        DeAnna- So, speaking as one newbie to another, I was first interested in the SCA twelve years ago back when the local university had a demonstration day.
        Message 3 of 9 , May 7, 2010
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          DeAnna-
          So, speaking as one newbie to another, I was first interested in the SCA twelve years ago back when the local university had a demonstration day. However, I was turned off by some clothing snobs (who insisted that clothing had to be hand-sewn) and have only come back into the fold recently, with the prodding and poking of my SCA boyfriend. Now researching clothing has become somewhat of a hobby (one I attempt to indulge in only infrequently what with finals coming up soon).
          However, what I can tell you is this: Use Google. It is your best friend and will help you find some amazing things if you tell it the right thing to look for. Failing that, look on Delicious.com for the keyword "SCA". (My collection of bookmarks is here: http://delicious.com/munineye/sca+costume It includes both sewing instruction pages and shopping websites with commentary. Also a great deal of photos from Lithuanian reenactment groups, since my persona is early 15th-century Lithuanian, so apologies if you're not into Baltic fashion.)
          As for "all we have to go by are paintings and written descriptions", this is simply not true. Several articles of clothing have been found and are invaluable to the strict period costumer. One website I would check out if you at least want to look appropriately period is Historic Enterprises: http://historicenterprises.com/womens-c-100.html . While they are quite expensive, you can get a good idea as far as outfits go and then move on from there. They also have accuracy ratings if you'd like to get into that kind of thing. If you'd rather buy garb as opposed to making it (I know plenty who are in this boat), there's Garb the World, http://www.garbtheworld.com/pgs/hist/medieval.shtml which has some decently inexpensive garb that will get you started. Beyond that, Wikipedia is a good reference for how people dressed during the loooong period that we call the Middle Ages.
          So, you might ask, what do I wear? Well, that's a complicated question right now. My first event, I went in an old Renfaire skirt and an extra tunic my boyfriend had lying around. I wore a pair of no-heeled walking shoes that were earth toned, a white kerchief made from some scrap fabric, and a straw hat we'd bought the previous day and stretched the top so that it'd be round instead of cowboy-shaped. It worked wonderfully and while I know I'll cringe when I see the photos later, it was great for my first event (even our Queen was impressed! :) ). I now have a chemise and a pair of leather clogs and we're working on a kirtle/cote set for my next event (which will probably be our Arts & Sciences classes).
          In sum:
          1. Those people who were meanyhead accuracy nuts are lame and you should take their words with a grain of salt.
          2. There are resources for period clothing all over the internet.
          3. Google and Delicious are your friends.
          4. Get ideas from the expensive stores and then buy (or make!) the cheaper version.
          ...Boy, it took me how long to say all that?

          Laurel (Laurai Zemajite)
          Kingdom of the West
          Barony of Darkwood

          P.S.: Oops, I almost forgot to mention my most valuable resource as far as pattern-making books go: The Medieval Tailor's Assistant at http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0896762394/ for $33-$39. The instructions are in metric, but that just means you switch to the other side of the tape, right? ;) (Also try Bookfinder.com for comparison tome shopping. Happy hunting!)

          --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, DeAnna Ziots <deezer23@...> wrote:
          I'm finding that getting the right clothing to be very difficult. Some say getting a medieval pattern from the internet is good. Others say you HAVE to be 100% authentic, your clothing have to reflect your period. How do we really know? All we really have to go by are paintings and written descriptions. I'm having a hard time finding "authentic" patterns in anything other then peasant clothing. I ordered some book to see if I can come up with my own patterns, but will that be considered authentic dress or will I be scuffed at? I've gotten some sights from some of you before (many thanks) but all of the above is what I've run into. I have a dress that I got from the Ren-Fest, and no it's not a wench outfit. It's a gown with an under skirt and a silk under dress and an A-line outer dress. I was told it wouldn't work because it wasn't anything that would have been worn during that time. I seriously need some help. Send me pics of your cloths or of patterns...SOMETHING...I don't really want to create my persona around a peasant dress.
        • Bambi TBNL
          oh yesh, I forgot one other point. There are peole, very very 100% authenticity folks and those who are not so much, who have their whole persona + kit
          Message 4 of 9 , May 7, 2010
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            oh yesh, I forgot one other point.
            There are peole, very very 100% authenticity folks and those who are not so much, who have their whole "persona + kit" worked out and then there comes a really cool event that has nothing to do with either and they creat garb and kit for just that event...
            so theyende up with a bunch of "random" periods and cultures in their garb closet that only come out once a year. and a lot of these folkse have SUCH awards...ach! But then, there are the die hards who have, what they have and wear it to everything no matter WHAT the focus..and  if anybody gets their knicker in a twist about it..they are in the minority...
            there are Laurels in costuming who show up  in beautiful 14thc. french at a tudor ball...and just look great for them, THAT is the ANACHRONISM part...and it works just fine.
            I do hope you will just jump in and play with us...and figure the small stuff out as you go along.
            I dont know where you are..but it is starting to be the season..look up an event in the kingdom calandar...contact the folks running it to reserve you place at the table and get in touch with the chatelaine if you feel you dont have anything to wear..( I always feel like thatLOL) and ask about what else you might need like feast gear...etc.... hope you live somewhere near Atlantia...means I might get to meet you some time...you sound lke a great asset to any group you choose to be a part of!!!Bambi (To be named l ater) TBNL


            I am made for great things by GOD
            and walk with Pride!!!!
            Walladah bint al Mustakfi c 1100ad
            see me dance
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HMtOoXtMs0




            ________________________________
            From: "LCopland@..." <LCopland@...>
            To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thu, May 6, 2010 1:15:12 PM
            Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] (no subject)

             

            DeAnna: I've only been with the SCA for a few years now but the rules just say that some attempt at period is required. I also ran into a few people at the begining who were all about being 100% authentic but remember this is for play. It is supposed to be fun, so don't stress it. I have garb from a few different periods depending on the occasion and it has taken me 3 years to find a name that I have yet to submit. Some people may complain but www.renstore. com has a very nice sideless surcoat with chemise for beginners garb then go to some events and check out what others are wearing and feel free to ask where they got it or how did they make it. Usually people are very receptive and pleased that you noticed their garb and will be willing to assist. But first and foremost, don't sweat it, this is supposed to be fun!

            Lori (Eilinora inghean du Ruac)

            -----Original Message-----
            From: DeAnna Ziots <deezer23@yahoo. com>
            To: scanewcomers@ yahoogroups. com
            Sent: Wed, May 5, 2010 10:27 pm
            Subject: [SCA Newcomers] (no subject)

            I'm finding that getting the right clothing to be very difficult. Some say getting a medieval pattern from the internet is good. Others say you HAVE to be 100% authentic, your clothing have to reflect your period. How do we really know? All we really have to go by are paintings and written descriptions. I'm having a hard time finding "authentic" patterns in anything other then peasant clothing. I ordered some book to see if I can come up with my own patterns, but will that be considered authentic dress or will I be scuffed at? I've gotten some sights from some of you before (many thanks) but all of the above is what I've run into. I have a dress that I got from the Ren-Fest, and no it's not a wench outfit. It's a gown with an under skirt and a silk under dress and an A-line outer dress. I was told it wouldn't work because it wasn't anything that would have been worn during that time. I seriously need some help. Send me pics of your cloths or of
            patterns...SOMETHIN G...I don't really want to create my persona around a peasant dress. Thank you all so much!!! I know I've asked a lot of questions on this subject so I thank you all for being patient with me.

            DeAnna

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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