Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [SCA Newcomers] (no subject)

Expand Messages
  • Robert Bohler
    The McCalls and Simplicity patterns are ....... ok, but I d suggest looking at some of the patterns available through Reconstructing History .
    Message 1 of 10 , May 6, 2010
    View Source
    • 0 Attachment
      The McCalls and Simplicity patterns are ....... ok, but I'd suggest looking at some of the patterns available through "Reconstructing History".

      https://www.reconstructinghistory.com/patterns.php?c=1&w=38&r=Y

      Ulrich of Greyfells

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Shellie
      To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 11:37 PM
      Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] (no subject)



      I hate it when people do this to me also. I have very limited funds and can't go getting what I really want and then when I do make something I am berated. Unfortunately with me when this happens I cry quietly to myself then explode on them fiercely. The Barony I am in here isn't that picky from what I am told there are a few that are period from the ankles up. Of course back then they didn't have sewing machines either so technically I would have to look at that person and say well you aren't quite authentic either now are you. I saw some nice looking patterns from McCalls and Simplicity online they are a bit expensive for me but I guess they would be a reasonable price.

      Shellie
      Gwyntarian
      Mogadore, Ohio

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: DeAnna Ziots
      To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 10:27 PM
      Subject: [SCA Newcomers] (no subject)

      I'm finding that getting the right clothing to be very difficult. Some say getting a medieval pattern from the internet is good. Others say you HAVE to be 100% authentic, your clothing have to reflect your period. How do we really know? All we really have to go by are paintings and written descriptions. I'm having a hard time finding "authentic" patterns in anything other then peasant clothing. I ordered some book to see if I can come up with my own patterns, but will that be considered authentic dress or will I be scuffed at? I've gotten some sights from some of you before (many thanks) but all of the above is what I've run into. I have a dress that I got from the Ren-Fest, and no it's not a wench outfit. It's a gown with an under skirt and a silk under dress and an A-line outer dress. I was told it wouldn't work because it wasn't anything that would have been worn during that time. I seriously need some help. Send me pics of your cloths or of
      patterns...SOMETHING...I don't really want to create my persona around a peasant dress. Thank you all so much!!! I know I've asked a lot of questions on this subject so I thank you all for being patient with me.

      DeAnna

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • D'vorah bint al-Attar
      ... I ve also been informed by someone on (mumble -- can t remember which email list) that http://www.historicenterprises.com not only SAYS that their clothing
      Message 2 of 10 , May 6, 2010
      View Source
      • 0 Attachment
        On 6 May 2010, at 5:31 AM, Robert Bohler wrote:

        > The McCalls and Simplicity patterns are ....... ok, but I'd suggest looking at some of the patterns available through "Reconstructing History".
        >
        > https://www.reconstructinghistory.com/patterns.php?c=1&w=38&r=Y

        I've also been informed by someone on (mumble -- can't remember which email list) that http://www.historicenterprises.com not only SAYS that their clothing patterns and construction methods are period, but are actually correct. If you wanted to buy one full set of garb and then use that as a pattern to make future sets, I'm told that would be an excellent thing to do.

        But, again, no one is going to... no, no one SHOULD be berating you because you aren't 100% authentic. The rule is "an attempt at pre-17th century clothing," not "perfection at all costs." There are historical re-enactment groups that do demand that level of authenticity, but the SCA is more understanding of beginners, hobbyists, and those who want to focus on only a handful of aspects, as well as being geared towards helping everyone raise their authenticity in the ways, and at the paces, that they themselves find compelling.
        -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
        D'vorah bint al-Attar
        Master Albrecht Waldfurster's Egg
        Middle Kingdom, Midlands, Ayreton, Tree-Girt-Sea (Chicago, IL)
        dvorah@...
        http://www.consensualreality.net/sca AND
        Facebook: D'vorah Bint Al-Attar
        -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
      • Robert Bohler
        What I m currently doing is working with the Reconstructing History , 1560 s doublet and pluderhose pattern, which cost ~$30. ( buy their patterns through
        Message 3 of 10 , May 6, 2010
        View Source
        • 0 Attachment
          What I'm currently doing is working with the "Reconstructing History", 1560's doublet and pluderhose pattern, which cost ~$30. ( buy their patterns through Amazon.com though, shipping is cheaper).
          For fabric I raided my local sewing supply shop and hit the bargain bins for upholstery fabrics, which often look close enough to period. I found some really nice stuff for ~$5/yrd. Figure in what you need, main fabric, inter-lining, lining, thread, pins, buttons etc, and you can create a complete outfit for ~$120.

          As for the sewing itself, I can barely sew on a button by hand. So I've borrowed my mum's sewing machine, deciphered its mysteries and just using that. If anyone nitpicks that it isn't hand sewn, I don't really care. I've made the effort, and put all the work into the project, that's reward enough for me.

          Ulrich of Greyfells
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: D'vorah bint al-Attar
          To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 7:39 AM
          Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] (no subject)




          On 6 May 2010, at 5:31 AM, Robert Bohler wrote:

          > The McCalls and Simplicity patterns are ....... ok, but I'd suggest looking at some of the patterns available through "Reconstructing History".
          >
          > https://www.reconstructinghistory.com/patterns.php?c=1&w=38&r=Y

          I've also been informed by someone on (mumble -- can't remember which email list) that http://www.historicenterprises.com not only SAYS that their clothing patterns and construction methods are period, but are actually correct. If you wanted to buy one full set of garb and then use that as a pattern to make future sets, I'm told that would be an excellent thing to do.

          But, again, no one is going to... no, no one SHOULD be berating you because you aren't 100% authentic. The rule is "an attempt at pre-17th century clothing," not "perfection at all costs." There are historical re-enactment groups that do demand that level of authenticity, but the SCA is more understanding of beginners, hobbyists, and those who want to focus on only a handful of aspects, as well as being geared towards helping everyone raise their authenticity in the ways, and at the paces, that they themselves find compelling.
          -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
          D'vorah bint al-Attar
          Master Albrecht Waldfurster's Egg
          Middle Kingdom, Midlands, Ayreton, Tree-Girt-Sea (Chicago, IL)
          dvorah@...
          http://www.consensualreality.net/sca AND
          Facebook: D'vorah Bint Al-Attar
          -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • S H
          ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Message 4 of 10 , May 6, 2010
          View Source
          • 0 Attachment
            >
            > Thanks for the insite here D'vorah! I love the fact that everyone in my
            > barony is so.. pationt. Personality I figuar I could try to get something
            > "Gendrc" made for now and then something more accurate once I get my
            > persona together..... (anyone have advice for Jewish womans outfits of
            > Southern France prior to 1390 by the way?) rhe very first thing I went to
            > ended up being a barony event (and roaly cort too!) and no one said anything
            > event hough I was in nothing more then a Long bulky Skirt, the most
            > pesantish thing I could find from our modern wardrob, some kind of head
            > covering I can't remember and something draped around me as a shawl- I knew
            > I was faking it- but I just didn't have anything elce. Oh and nice big
            > basket with cloth on it
            >


            > to hold my stuff... I like baskets.. they cover a multitude of sins...
            >




            Devorah says:

            > I've also been informed by someone on (mumble -- can't remember which email
            > list) that http://www.historicenterprises.com not only SAYS that their
            > clothing patterns and construction methods are period, but are actually
            > correct. If you wanted to buy one full set of garb and then use that as a
            > pattern to make future sets, I'm told that would be an excellent thing to
            > do.
            >
            > But, again, no one is going to... no, no one SHOULD be berating you because
            > you aren't 100% authentic. The rule is "an attempt at pre-17th century
            > clothing," not "perfection at all costs." There are historical re-enactment
            > groups that do demand that level of authenticity, but the SCA is more
            > understanding of beginners, hobbyists, and those who want to focus on only a
            > handful of aspects, as well as being geared towards helping everyone raise
            > their authenticity in the ways, and at the paces, that they themselves find
            > compelling.
            >
            > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
            > D'vorah bint al-Attar
            > Master Albrecht Waldfurster's Egg
            > Middle Kingdom, Midlands, Ayreton, Tree-Girt-Sea (Chicago, IL)
            > dvorah@... <dvorah%40consensualreality.net>
            > http://www.consensualreality.net/sca AND
            > Facebook: D'vorah Bint Al-Attar
            >
            > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • S H
            ... I relly love the SCA- I went to FP a few days ago- and two people brought ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 10 , May 6, 2010
            View Source
            • 0 Attachment
              >
              > :) well said.. and really- better it should stay together and not fall
              > apart during court right? I can't immagion gthe skill necessary to keep
              > a doublet together when its just you a needle a a zillion yards of upultry
              > fabic....On that note I know down here one of the local sewing Mesahine
              > reapaie places has a speacal deals for SCA members- I don't know if its
              > noraml thing.. but it more then proves sewing meshens are the norm... and
              > more over probbly that *leaning* to sew is the norm...
              >
              I relly love the SCA- I went to FP a few days ago- and two people brought
              > like f boxed filled with fabric they where to get ride of to move and little
              > everyone- from little glirsl to burly guys in fully body armor was like
              > "Free Fabric! Where! Where!" "I don't know what I'd do with that piece"
              > "Take it anyway" ...
              >

              >

              > As for the sewing itself, I can barely sew on a button by hand. So I've
              > borrowed my mum's sewing machine, deciphered its mysteries and just using
              > that. If anyone nitpicks that it isn't hand sewn, I don't really care. I've
              > made the effort, and put all the work into the project, that's reward enough
              > for me.
              >
              >
              > Recent Activity:
              >
              > - New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scanewcomers/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmMG0xcGZoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzU1NDg5OTkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI2MjgzBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEyNzMxNDc0MzE-?o=6>
              > 3[image: Yahoo! Groups]<http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkN3ViY3VxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzU1NDg5OTkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI2MjgzBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMjczMTQ3NDMy>
              >
              > Switch to: Text-Only<scanewcomers-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change+Delivery+Format:+Traditional>,
              > Daily Digest<scanewcomers-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email+Delivery:+Digest>�
              > Unsubscribe <scanewcomers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>� Terms
              > of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
              > .
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • D'vorah bint al-Attar
              ... Jewish women s outfits in all times and ages had to be, above all, modest. In my area of the world (Yemen, 13th century), that meant (and still means) that
              Message 6 of 10 , May 6, 2010
              View Source
              • 0 Attachment
                On 6 May 2010, at 7:11 AM, S H wrote:

                >> Thanks for the insite here D'vorah! I love the fact that everyone in my
                >> barony is so.. pationt. Personality I figuar I could try to get something
                >> "Gendrc" made for now and then something more accurate once I get my
                >> persona together..... (anyone have advice for Jewish womans outfits of
                >> Southern France prior to 1390 by the way?) rhe very first thing I went to
                >> ended up being a barony event (and roaly cort too!) and no one said anything
                >> event hough I was in nothing more then a Long bulky Skirt, the most
                >> pesantish thing I could find from our modern wardrob, some kind of head
                >> covering I can't remember and something draped around me as a shawl- I knew
                >> I was faking it- but I just didn't have anything elce. Oh and nice big
                >> basket with cloth on it

                Jewish women's outfits in all times and ages had to be, above all, modest. In my area of the world (Yemen, 13th century), that meant (and still means) that one could expose face, hands, feet, and nothing else. It also meant (and still means) that clothing should be loose enough to hide the details of one's figure. You can't disguise the fact that you have breasts, for instance, but you can disguise the exact shape. Everyone knows that you have thighs, but you cover them so that no one can see above the knee -- no one should see the separation of thighs, and no one should see the place where they rejoin, so one must wear a skirt, dress, or long tunic over one's trousers.

                In Europe, the opposite was true, apparently. Modesty in (mid? late?) period Europe seemed to be that the bodice should be tight so that one could see the figure, but could not get to it easily. Hence the fitted bodices and the corsets and all. Breasts could be mostly uncovered, too, because a good deal of in-period thinking was that they were basically there to serve babies their lunches. Caveat: I don't know for how much of our period of interest this was true. It may have only been a late-period or even a post-period thing, which would mean that this isn't a valid statement for your late 14th century persona. Europeans, speak up! :) Jews usually wore what their non-Jewish neighbors wore, barring the (frequent) laws which the non-Jewish communities passed to force the Jews to visually differentiate themselves. Look up whether a southern French Jew was subject to any of those laws, and that'll help.

                But either way, a Jewish woman was required to be modest, and an *observant* Jewish woman held herself to that standard. At the very minimum, one must cover the legs, the upper arms (including elbows; including even when stretching to reach something high), the collarbones and all below them; and the hair if married. If you're portraying a Jewish woman, your first real task will be to determine how observant she is, and then you'll know how she dresses. Email me privately if you want help figuring that out. I'm Jewish and observant in and out of persona.
                -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                D'vorah bint al-Attar
                Master Albrecht Waldfurster's Egg
                Middle Kingdom, Midlands, Ayreton, Tree-Girt-Sea (Chicago, IL)
                dvorah@...
                http://www.consensualreality.net/sca AND
                Facebook: D'vorah Bint Al-Attar
                -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
              • Justinos Tekton called Justin
                ... I am always so sorry to hear about situations like this! As someone else pointed out, the SCA Inc. only requires an attempt at pre-1600 costume. It is
                Message 7 of 10 , May 6, 2010
                View Source
                • 0 Attachment
                  On Wed, 2010-05-05 at 23:37 -0400, Shellie wrote:
                  > I have very limited funds and can't go getting what I really want and
                  > then when I do make something I am berated.


                  I am always so sorry to hear about situations like this! As someone else
                  pointed out, the SCA Inc. only requires "an attempt" at pre-1600
                  costume. It is against the rules for a local group to demand a
                  particular style or culture. As long as you are making a reasonable
                  attempt at the historical costume of some culture that was known to
                  exist by western Europeans within the time period 600-1600 CE, you are
                  complying with SCA rules. If someone tells you that in a particular
                  shire or barony you *must* wear garb from a particular country or a
                  particular narrow time period, they are wrong, and the rules are on your
                  side.

                  We have some really wonderful authenticity mavens on this list, and
                  their approach is very much to encourage first efforts and offer
                  kindness and gentle guidance to improve as you learn at your own pace.
                  Unfortunately, out there in the wide world there are a few individuals
                  who try to boost their own self-esteem by berating the work of others
                  who have less experience. They apparently don't "get" that whole thing
                  about flies, honey, and vinegar. :-/

                  There are almost certainly people in your locale with a better attitude
                  also. We just need to get you started and help you find them.

                  For what it's worth.... My very first SCA event was Pennsic 20, back
                  in the early 1990s. I showed up at the site with some garb made by my ex
                  wife, and it fit so horribly that I literally couldn't wear it. (There
                  is probably a life-lesson in this....but that's another subject.) So I
                  arrived on site with, for all practical purposes, no garb. I had to buy
                  off the rack from merchants. I wanted to do Byzantine persona, but all I
                  knew of them was that Constantinople is near the Middle East. So I ended
                  up wearing a crazy mishmash of north-European tunic, North American
                  pioneer high moccasins, and (to protect my bald head from sun) a Middle
                  Eastern kafiya and agal (the traditional Arabic male headgear). I'm
                  proud to say I made the agal (the ornamented headband) myself -- my very
                  first A&S project. But.... To any reasonable person, I looked like a
                  crazy mix of cultures.

                  Friends talked me into attending a class in the Enchanted Ground, the
                  most authenticity-driven campsite at Pennsic. While I was there, I got
                  to talking with several of their folk, including Duke Cariadoc himself.
                  By all rights, they could have (with good reason) criticized my garb.
                  They didn't. Instead, they chose to say nothing about what I did wrong,
                  but rather dug deep to find one or two tiny things I did correctly (such
                  as beginning to research my persona while at Pennsic), and they praised
                  the small points they could.

                  I went away from that encounter feeling terrific. By this point, I had
                  figured out that I had done a poor job of garbing myself, but these
                  folks had given me hope that there was something I was doing well, also.

                  I am still not exactly a garb maven, but I'm wearing a lot better now
                  than I was then. They could have easily crushed my attempts and probably
                  driven me out of the SCA. Instead, they encouraged me gently. This year
                  I will attend my 20th Pennsic, and I'm still having fun.

                  Please don't give up -- most of the SCA is more likely to offer you help
                  and tutoring rather than criticism. We just need to get you linked up
                  with the right people, and this list is a pretty good starting point for
                  that.

                  Kind regards and welcome,

                  Justin

                  --
                  ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                  Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                  Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys
                  fesswise reversed sable.

                  justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                • Justinos Tekton called Justin
                  ... I have a tunic and under-tunic that I bought last year at Pennsic from Black Swan Designs, which is part of Historic Enterprises. I am extremely pleased
                  Message 8 of 10 , May 6, 2010
                  View Source
                  • 0 Attachment
                    On Thu, 2010-05-06 at 06:39 -0500, D'vorah bint al-Attar wrote:
                    > I've also been informed by someone on (mumble -- can't remember which
                    > email list) that http://www.historicenterprises.com not only SAYS that
                    > their clothing patterns and construction methods are period, but are
                    > actually correct. If you wanted to buy one full set of garb and then
                    > use that as a pattern to make future sets, I'm told that would be an
                    > excellent thing to do.


                    I have a tunic and under-tunic that I bought last year at Pennsic from
                    Black Swan Designs, which is part of Historic Enterprises. I am
                    extremely pleased with the quality of the garments, and I get
                    compliments from others almost every time I wear the tunic. Both inner
                    and outer are made of 100% linen, and it's wonderfully comfortable in
                    summer weather. :-)

                    So I second D'vorah's recommendation of these folks. I don't have any
                    commercial connection to them -- I'm just a customer who's happy with
                    what I bought.

                    Justin

                    --
                    ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                    Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                    Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys
                    fesswise reversed sable.

                    justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                  • Maria Buchanan
                    Shellie, Go to JoAnns Fabrics online and sign up for their e-newsletter.  When you get it read it.  It will tell you when the patterns go on sale.  I ve
                    Message 9 of 10 , May 6, 2010
                    View Source
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Shellie,
                      Go to JoAnns Fabrics online and sign up for their e-newsletter.  When you get it read it.  It will tell you when the patterns go on sale.  I've gotten McCalls and Simplicity patterns for 99 cents at JoAnn's when they are on sale.  Sometimes they are 1.99.  I've never bought a pattern at JoAnn's at full price. 
                      Maria

                      --- On Wed, 5/5/10, Shellie <mbuter30@...> wrote:

                      From: Shellie <mbuter30@...>
                      Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] (no subject)
                      To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Wednesday, May 5, 2010, 10:37 PM







                       









                      I hate it when people do this to me also. I have very limited funds and can't go getting what I really want and then when I do make something I am berated. Unfortunately with me when this happens I cry quietly to myself then explode on them fiercely. The Barony I am in here isn't that picky from what I am told there are a few that are period from the ankles up. Of course back then they didn't have sewing machines either so technically I would have to look at that person and say well you aren't quite authentic either now are you. I saw some nice looking patterns from McCalls and Simplicity online they are a bit expensive for me but I guess they would be a reasonable price.



                      Shellie

                      Gwyntarian

                      Mogadore, Ohio



                      ----- Original Message -----

                      From: DeAnna Ziots

                      To: scanewcomers@ yahoogroups. com

                      Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 10:27 PM

                      Subject: [SCA Newcomers] (no subject)



                      I'm finding that getting the right clothing to be very difficult. Some say getting a medieval pattern from the internet is good. Others say you HAVE to be 100% authentic, your clothing have to reflect your period. How do we really know? All we really have to go by are paintings and written descriptions. I'm having a hard time finding "authentic" patterns in anything other then peasant clothing. I ordered some book to see if I can come up with my own patterns, but will that be considered authentic dress or will I be scuffed at? I've gotten some sights from some of you before (many thanks) but all of the above is what I've run into. I have a dress that I got from the Ren-Fest, and no it's not a wench outfit. It's a gown with an under skirt and a silk under dress and an A-line outer dress. I was told it wouldn't work because it wasn't anything that would have been worn during that time. I seriously need some help. Send me pics of your cloths or of

                      patterns...SOMETHIN G...I don't really want to create my persona around a peasant dress. Thank you all so much!!! I know I've asked a lot of questions on this subject so I thank you all for being patient with me.



                      DeAnna



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






















                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.