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What Are The Rules About SCA/SCA Related Groups

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  • Kyla
    Hello, I recently came across an issue where a group of performers decided to have a closed tech rehearsal. The performers are all members of the SCA, and are
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 2, 2010
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      Hello,

      I recently came across an issue where a group of performers decided to have
      a closed tech rehearsal.
      The performers are all members of the SCA, and are concentrating on SCA
      period material.
      (The group is eventually looking to enter A&S competitions - any advice
      regarding that would be welcome!)
      The group is not an official SCA group, just an informal gathering a
      friends - that we take it pretty seriously is beside the point.
      It is a small group, and is actively recruiting more members, but decided
      that an hour and a half rehearsal for an hour's worth of material was not a
      good time to meet someone new.
      The new person made this claim, "...It has always been my understanding that
      all SCA-related groups are supposed to have open-door policies at all
      times."

      Could someone with more experience with the SCA help me find a better
      understanding of the rules and traditions regarding official and
      non-official groups within the SCA, and what the differences are?

      Many thanks for your time,

      Tabitha Pennywarden
      Ravenslake, Midlands
      Middle Kingdom


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • G P
      You re not an SCA (official) group. You don t have to follow anyone s rules but your own. Households aren t official, either--would anyone stand on solid
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 2, 2010
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        You're not an SCA (official) group. You don't have to follow anyone's
        rules but your own. Households aren't official, either--would anyone
        stand on solid ground trying to tell households that they can't make
        their own call about who can and can't be a member?

        -Gary


        On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Kyla <skycat@...> wrote:
        > Hello,
        >
        > I recently came across an issue where a group of performers decided to have
        > a closed tech rehearsal.
        > The performers are all members of the SCA, and are concentrating on SCA
        > period material.
        > (The group is eventually looking to enter A&S competitions - any advice
        > regarding that would be welcome!)
        > The group is not an official SCA group, just an informal gathering a
        > friends - that we take it pretty seriously is beside the point.
        > It is a small group, and is actively recruiting more members, but decided
        > that an hour and a half rehearsal for an hour's worth of material was not a
        > good time to meet someone new.
        > The new person made this claim, "...It has always been my understanding that
        > all SCA-related groups are supposed to have open-door policies at all
        > times."
        >
        > Could someone with more experience with the SCA help me find a better
        > understanding of the rules and traditions regarding official and
        > non-official groups within the SCA, and what the differences are?
        >
        > Many thanks for your time,
        >
        > Tabitha Pennywarden
        > Ravenslake, Midlands
        > Middle Kingdom
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Elizabeth Bair
        Your newcomer is not entirely correct. Per Corpora: * Section I. General: E. Unofficial Entities (page 3) * In many kingdoms, there are groups in which many
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 2, 2010
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          Your newcomer is not entirely correct.

          Per Corpora:
          *

          Section I. General: E. Unofficial Entities (page 3)
          *

          "In many kingdoms, there are groups in which many people participate but
          which are not formally recognized by the Society. These can range from
          highly structured guilds to loosely associated camping groups. Entities that
          fall into this category can have many names, including but not limited to
          households, guilds, ships, and clans. Although these entities are not
          recognized by the Society in any formal way, some kingdoms have awards that
          can be given to these groups. Because they are not official Society groups,
          unofficial entities cannot sponsor Society events."


          *

          Bylaws and Corporate Policy: XIII. POLICY ON ACCESSIBILITY TO SOCIETY
          FUNCTIONS (page 15)
          *

          "The SCA, Inc. will not discriminate against any member or participant on
          the basis of race, sex, religion, national origin, age or disability. The
          SCA, Inc. will comply with all laws of the nation in which the meeting or
          event is held. For any meeting or event held in the United States, the SCA,
          Inc. will comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act. The SCA, Inc.
          will provide reasonable accommodations to qualified individuals with
          disabilities to enable all participants to fully enjoy the events whenever
          it is possible to do so. The SCA, Inc. will at all times attempt to provide
          reasonable accommodations, while preserving the fundamental nature of the
          SCA event."

          This applies to all official events and meetings held and/or sponsored by a
          branch of the SCA, Inc. This means group meetings, revels hosted by a local
          group, events hosted by the local group, and even kingdom officer meetings.
          It does not apply to unofficial sub-groups as defined by the statute above
          defining Unofficial Entities.



          In other words, if I decide to host the local Shire's Arts & Sciences night
          at my home I cannot bar anyone from attending.

          If I choose to invite a select group of individuals to my home to rehearse
          music/a play/dancing/whatever, and that group of individuals is not
          sponsored by the shire or listed as an official shire activity, then I do
          not have to allow anyone else to attend. This is true even if my group
          regularly performs at and for the SCA at meetings, revels, events and
          demos. As long as you start a private group, and keep it private, you are
          not obligated to allow participation by anyone without invitation. You can
          recruite members -and- maintain the group as a private group as long as you
          keep your intentions clear at all times. I would suggest, though, not
          making general recruiting announcements at meetings or on mailing lists, etc
          if you have a private group that you intend to keep private.
          On the other hand, if your group is named "Shire of Wherever Glee Club"
          and/or you have announced that the group is open for anyone to participate
          in at local meetings/online/in newsletters/whereever, the implication is
          that this group is open to anyone from the local group who would like to
          participate. In this case, the best you can do is allow interested people
          to attend the rehearsal, but with the understanding that the roster for the
          current project now under rehearsal is already filled. They may attend to
          learn about the group and what you do, but should plan to observe quietly
          and not disrupt the rehearsals. Plan to spend a few minutes at the
          beginning and end of rehearsals with the new people and tell them that
          opportunities for participation will be available in future projects... and
          then you will need to make sure those opportunities do become available. If
          the new people are disruptive to your rehearsals you may want to consider
          holding additional rehearsals at a time and place only disclosed to the
          active participants.

          I know that you said it's an "unofficial group" but you also said that you
          are actively recruiting new members. The catch, as I read it, is
          how/when/where you are actively recruiting those members. If you are making
          open announcements at a local meeting and are not making it clear that this
          group is NOT officially offiliated with the SCA, nor is it sponsored by the
          SCA, then you need to fix that ASAP. As a veteran of unofficial performance
          groups in the SCA, my best advice to you is to NEVER make open announcements
          that you are recruiting membership unless your intention is to become an
          open group. If your group is "private" and wants to stay "private" the best
          way to recruit is on a one-to-one basis as members of your group find other
          individuals who have the right interests, background, or whatever for your
          private group. The trouble comes when you blur the lines and try to be
          something in the middle between "private/unofficial" and "local SCA group
          affiliated". Be one or the other and be prepared for some hurt feelings if
          you are "private".


          I hope that this helps....

          Dulcia

          Countess Dulcia MacPherson, OL OR
          Kindom of Trimaris




          On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Kyla <skycat@...> wrote:

          >
          >
          > Hello,
          >
          > I recently came across an issue where a group of performers decided to have
          > a closed tech rehearsal.
          > The performers are all members of the SCA, and are concentrating on SCA
          > period material.
          > (The group is eventually looking to enter A&S competitions - any advice
          > regarding that would be welcome!)
          > The group is not an official SCA group, just an informal gathering a
          > friends - that we take it pretty seriously is beside the point.
          > It is a small group, and is actively recruiting more members, but decided
          > that an hour and a half rehearsal for an hour's worth of material was not a
          > good time to meet someone new.
          > The new person made this claim, "...It has always been my understanding
          > that
          > all SCA-related groups are supposed to have open-door policies at all
          > times."
          >
          > Could someone with more experience with the SCA help me find a better
          > understanding of the rules and traditions regarding official and
          > non-official groups within the SCA, and what the differences are?
          >
          > Many thanks for your time,
          >
          > Tabitha Pennywarden
          > Ravenslake, Midlands
          > Middle Kingdom
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >



          --
          "Deus solum perfectus est" - Only God is perfect.

          "Everyone is entitled to their own opinions; but everyone is not entitled to
          their own facts."--Daniel Patrick Moynihan
          Sent from Gainesville, FL, United States


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Nicole E. Miller
          If this particular meeting was more or less a dress rehearsal for something specific, then trying to integrate a new person may have grave consequences for the
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 2, 2010
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            If this particular meeting was more or less a dress rehearsal for something specific, then trying to integrate a new person may have grave consequences for the performance. To me, I would say the group was correct in restricting this specific meeting was just fine. Another option would have been to make sure the person understood this was not just a genneral gathering, but a specifc rehearsal and while they could watch, they could not participate since all the bits had been worked out for this performance and that they could join in on the next project. We will often get a new person in our singing group, but if they want to come for the first time the last practice before a performance, we reccomend they don't as we need to tweak with those actually performing, but they are most welcome after that.

            Hope that helps a little.

            Sian
            ---- Kyla <skycat@...> wrote:

            =============
            Hello,

            I recently came across an issue where a group of performers decided to have
            a closed tech rehearsal.
            The performers are all members of the SCA, and are concentrating on SCA
            period material.
            (The group is eventually looking to enter A&S competitions - any advice
            regarding that would be welcome!)
            The group is not an official SCA group, just an informal gathering a
            friends - that we take it pretty seriously is beside the point.
            It is a small group, and is actively recruiting more members, but decided
            that an hour and a half rehearsal for an hour's worth of material was not a
            good time to meet someone new.
            The new person made this claim, "...It has always been my understanding that
            all SCA-related groups are supposed to have open-door policies at all
            times."

            Could someone with more experience with the SCA help me find a better
            understanding of the rules and traditions regarding official and
            non-official groups within the SCA, and what the differences are?

            Many thanks for your time,

            Tabitha Pennywarden
            Ravenslake, Midlands
            Middle Kingdom


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Justinos Tekton called Justin
            ... I m not on the Board and don t speak for them, but I ll take a crack at this question as a lay member of the populace who has a lot of experience as a
            Message 5 of 6 , Feb 2, 2010
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              On Tue, 2010-02-02 at 13:33 -0600, Kyla wrote:
              > Could someone with more experience with the SCA help me find a better
              > understanding of the rules and traditions regarding official and
              > non-official groups within the SCA, and what the differences are?


              I'm not on the Board and don't speak for them, but I'll take a crack at
              this question as a lay member of the populace who has a lot of
              experience as a Seneschal at various levels.

              As always, the official source is the Governing Documents, which defines
              what constitutes an official SCA event. SCA events *are* open-door
              affairs provided the attendees meet the requirements of the SCA
              Governing Documents (basically, wear garb, follow the rules of the SCA
              Inc., and have a warranted SCA officer in charge of the event...read the
              details from the Gov Docs linked from www.sca.org).

              In this case, you have said that "[t]he group is not an official SCA
              group, just an informal gathering [of] friends...". That says it all --
              the SCA has no authority to regulate who is or is not welcome at an
              activity that is not an SCA sanctioned activity.

              There are many activities and groups "around" the SCA culture that are
              not officially sanctioned. For example:

              * Households -- In some kingdoms, these may seem quasi-official, but
              they are not. Households are groups of people who may or may not be SCA
              members and who attend SCA events together or otherwise participate
              together. They have to obey SCA rules while they are at SCA events, but
              outside of that environment they are governed only by modern-world law
              and whatever agreements and covenants are made by their own members.

              * Some guilds -- Some guilds have charters from the kingdom level, and
              their activities may therefore be officially sanctioned. But others who
              call themselves guilds are really just craft households, and all the
              things said about households apply. Technically, at least in some
              kingdoms, they shouldn't be calling themselves guilds -- but the SCA
              Inc. doesn't own the word "guild" and therefore can't enforce that
              legally.

              * Revels -- Ever been to a "post revel" at someone's house after an
              event? Or a similar informal party that happened to include a bunch of
              SCA people but which wasn't presided over by an SCA officer acting in
              that capacity? These are unofficial activities. Just because multiple
              people gather in a room who are members of the SCA does not imply that
              the gathering itself is an SCA activity.

              By contrast, there are actually activities that seem unofficial but
              which can be considered official because of the way they are run. For
              example:

              * Shire/Barony business meetings -- They are official because an SCA
              Seneschal presides over them and because official business is transacted
              there under the auspices of warranted officers. (Business meetings are
              an exception to the garb requirement, however.)

              * Fighter practices -- They are official because a warranted SCA Marshal
              is presiding over them in an official capacity.

              * Revels that are actually sponsored by the SCA Inc. -- Just the word
              "revel" or "party" doesn't make something *un*official. Rather, it is
              the lack of SCA supervision, funding, regulation, and insurance. So just
              as it is possible to have an unofficial revel/party without these
              things, it is equally possible to have an official revel/party *with*
              full SCA sanction.

              The SCA has no problem with unofficial events. It's just important to
              understand and clearly differentiate:

              * SCA activities/groups must follow SCA rules, have SCA insurance, and
              can be paid for with SCA funds.

              * Unofficial activities/groups are not bound by SCA rules, have no SCA
              insurance, and cannot be paid for with SCA funds.

              Hope this helps. I would encourage everyone to familiarize themselves
              with the Governing Documents. As a newcomer, one wouldn't necessarily
              need to read every section down to the minute details, but skim it over
              so you know what's in it and can find it easily in the future.

              http://www.sca.org/docs/#govdocs

              Kind regards,

              Justin

              --
              ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
              Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
              Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys
              fesswise reversed sable.

              justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/
            • Kyla
              Thank you all for your help - I believe every aspect of this issue has been addressed - you guys are great! The concert that the tech rehearsal was for was
              Message 6 of 6 , Feb 8, 2010
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                Thank you all for your help - I believe every aspect of this issue has been addressed - you guys are great!
                The concert that the tech rehearsal was for was this past Saturday, and it went very well - there were more people watching us when we finished than when we started!

                There were some aspects of this issue mentioned here, which no one in the group has thought of, or mentioned - may I share these issues with my group?

                (I mean all of the responses I've read, not just this one.)

                I really appreciate each suggestion made, thank you all!

                Tabitha Pennywarden
                Ravenslake Midlands,
                Middle Kingdom

                -----Original Message-----
                From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of G P
                Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 1:38 PM
                To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] What Are The Rules About SCA/SCA Related Groups



                You're not an SCA (official) group. You don't have to follow anyone's
                rules but your own. Households aren't official, either--would anyone
                stand on solid ground trying to tell households that they can't make
                their own call about who can and can't be a member?

                -Gary

                On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Kyla <skycat@...> wrote:
                > Hello,
                >
                > I recently came across an issue where a group of performers decided to have
                > a closed tech rehearsal.
                > The performers are all members of the SCA, and are concentrating on SCA
                > period material.
                > (The group is eventually looking to enter A&S competitions - any advice
                > regarding that would be welcome!)
                > The group is not an official SCA group, just an informal gathering a
                > friends - that we take it pretty seriously is beside the point.
                > It is a small group, and is actively recruiting more members, but decided
                > that an hour and a half rehearsal for an hour's worth of material was not a
                > good time to meet someone new.
                > The new person made this claim, "...It has always been my understanding that
                > all SCA-related groups are supposed to have open-door policies at all
                > times."
                >
                > Could someone with more experience with the SCA help me find a better
                > understanding of the rules and traditions regarding official and
                > non-official groups within the SCA, and what the differences are?
                >
                > Many thanks for your time,
                >
                > Tabitha Pennywarden
                > Ravenslake, Midlands
                > Middle Kingdom
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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