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RE: [SCA Newcomers] patterns and clothing forms

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  • Elizabeth Walpole
    ... From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bambi TBNL Sent: Friday, 18 December 2009 1:04 PM To:
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 18, 2009
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      -----Original Message-----
      From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Bambi TBNL
      Sent: Friday, 18 December 2009 1:04 PM
      To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] patterns and clothing forms

      I know I am really going out on a limb here but...has anybody sen the newest
      simplicity tudor for women patten....not too shabby!!!!actually is is in 2
      patterns...one is outer clothing and one is underpinnings n such...but
      really , it does not suck considering the stuff that has come out before and
      the sizing is actually quite generous...I just made it for someone.and the 
      tudor corset alone really worked surprisingly well ..I actually had to cut
      the pattern down cause the muslin proved  the fit did not take into accont
      the squishing down that occurs when a real corsett does its job!!!lol
       Bambi (To be named ater) TBNL


      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
      -------

      Simplicity has been coming out with some reasonable patterns recently.
      Especially if you do 18th/19th century as well as SCA (but then the research
      is much easier for 18th & 19th centuries as there are so many extant
      garments, after years of making 16th century clothing it felt like cheating
      when I researched 19th century stuff). Ease in garments that are not
      supposed to have ease is a recurring problem in Simplicity's historic line
      (they had the same problem with the Civil War corset patterns), the pattern
      designer comes up with a corset pattern and then Simplicity adds ease so a
      corset ends up being bigger than the measurements the envelope says it will
      fit!

      Simplicity 2589 (http://www.simplicity.com/p-1547-costumes.aspx) is better
      than anything else I've seen for that period from the major pattern
      companies but unfortunately that's not really saying much. I think its major
      flaw is that it's designed to cash in on The Other Boleyn Girl, so it
      recreates the flawed costumes of that movie (e.g. most Tudor portraits don't
      show the skirt pleated in front, it's smooth in front and pleated at the
      back, though there are a couple of 1550s-1560s gowns with pleats that are
      moving closer to the front as it transitions into something more like an
      Elizabethan style). For a beginner it's much better than most people wear in
      their first few years in the SCA but it really reflects theories on
      construction that are about 20 years old (though my first Tudor gown was
      based on the same research and I still wear it occasionally, when the
      weather and occasion call for 8yds of velvet ;D). If you're serious about
      Tudor get a copy of The Tudor Tailor for the latest research (you can order
      it direct from the authors, http://www.tudortailor.com/, or it's also
      available from other online bookshops), I have yet to hear of anyone who has
      regretted the investment.
      From what I can see the one really bright point in this pattern is the
      French Hood Most other French Hood patterns I've seen look like a sun visor
      turned backwards and tend to stick straight up in the air, this one has a
      really nice looking period silhouette (although it looks like the version in
      the photo used buckram that was too light weight, so it developed wrinkles)
      and it's good to see a pattern with the complete ensemble not just the
      dress.

      Personally I would be happier to see the underwear pattern, 2621
      (http://www.simplicity.com/p-1576-costumes.aspx), combined with the
      Elizabethan pattern, 3782 (http://www.simplicity.com/p-2009-costumes.aspx),
      as the best information we have at the moment suggests that corsets (as
      opposed to an underdress with a stiffened bodice, which gives a similar
      silhouette) probably didn't turn up until around the 1580s or 1590s (it
      basically required somebody to have the brainwave that now bodices are boned
      they will stay in place without the weight of the skirt holding them down
      and we can make the bodice and skirt as separate garments). And overall I am
      happier with the Elizabethan pattern than the Tudor pattern (it has some
      minor inaccuracies I would nitpick, e.g. cross lacing instead of spiral
      lacing, but nothing major).

      Note my assessment of the Tudor patterns is based on looking at the images
      online I haven't got a copy of this pattern yet (though I have got a copy of
      the Elizabethan pattern) Once I have got a copy I may reassess my opinion of
      the pattern.

      Alright that is enough of a novel for now (can you tell that Tudor is my
      passion ;P) if you have more time than money it's possible to improve this
      pattern, but it's probably not a project for a beginner unless you're good
      at visualising how two dimensional shapes will look in three dimensions.
      It's going to be significantly easier to buy a good pattern to start with.

      Yours in service,
      -----------------------------------------
      Elizabeth Walpole | Elizabeth Beaumont
      Canberra, Australia | Politarchopolis, Lochac
      http://magpiecostumer.110mb.com/
    • Theophania
      late to the game but i for one am greatful for all your input listed above. I have both patterns (3728 and 2589) (not really sure how i got them) and have
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 29, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        late to the game but i for one am greatful for all your input listed above. I have both patterns (3728 and 2589) (not really sure how i got them) and have been eyeing to see if they would even be worth making up for a sca event or for just a costume party. i'm am very new to sewing so i tend to cling to easy to understand patterns.

        --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth Walpole" <ewalpole@...> wrote:
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com] On
        > Behalf Of Bambi TBNL
        > Sent: Friday, 18 December 2009 1:04 PM
        > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] patterns and clothing forms
        >
        > I know I am really going out on a limb here but...has anybody sen the newest
        > simplicity tudor for women patten....not too shabby!!!!actually is is in 2
        > patterns...one is outer clothing and one is underpinnings n such...but
        > really , it does not suck considering the stuff that has come out before and
        > the sizing is actually quite generous...I just made it for someone.and the 
        > tudor corset alone really worked surprisingly well ..I actually had to cut
        > the pattern down cause the muslin proved  the fit did not take into accont
        > the squishing down that occurs when a real corsett does its job!!!lol
        >  Bambi (To be named ater) TBNL
        >
        >
        > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
        > -------
        >
        > Simplicity has been coming out with some reasonable patterns recently.
        > Especially if you do 18th/19th century as well as SCA (but then the research
        > is much easier for 18th & 19th centuries as there are so many extant
        > garments, after years of making 16th century clothing it felt like cheating
        > when I researched 19th century stuff). Ease in garments that are not
        > supposed to have ease is a recurring problem in Simplicity's historic line
        > (they had the same problem with the Civil War corset patterns), the pattern
        > designer comes up with a corset pattern and then Simplicity adds ease so a
        > corset ends up being bigger than the measurements the envelope says it will
        > fit!
        >
        > Simplicity 2589 (http://www.simplicity.com/p-1547-costumes.aspx) is better
        > than anything else I've seen for that period from the major pattern
        > companies but unfortunately that's not really saying much. I think its major
        > flaw is that it's designed to cash in on The Other Boleyn Girl, so it
        > recreates the flawed costumes of that movie (e.g. most Tudor portraits don't
        > show the skirt pleated in front, it's smooth in front and pleated at the
        > back, though there are a couple of 1550s-1560s gowns with pleats that are
        > moving closer to the front as it transitions into something more like an
        > Elizabethan style). For a beginner it's much better than most people wear in
        > their first few years in the SCA but it really reflects theories on
        > construction that are about 20 years old (though my first Tudor gown was
        > based on the same research and I still wear it occasionally, when the
        > weather and occasion call for 8yds of velvet ;D). If you're serious about
        > Tudor get a copy of The Tudor Tailor for the latest research (you can order
        > it direct from the authors, http://www.tudortailor.com/, or it's also
        > available from other online bookshops), I have yet to hear of anyone who has
        > regretted the investment.
        > From what I can see the one really bright point in this pattern is the
        > French Hood Most other French Hood patterns I've seen look like a sun visor
        > turned backwards and tend to stick straight up in the air, this one has a
        > really nice looking period silhouette (although it looks like the version in
        > the photo used buckram that was too light weight, so it developed wrinkles)
        > and it's good to see a pattern with the complete ensemble not just the
        > dress.
        >
        > Personally I would be happier to see the underwear pattern, 2621
        > (http://www.simplicity.com/p-1576-costumes.aspx), combined with the
        > Elizabethan pattern, 3782 (http://www.simplicity.com/p-2009-costumes.aspx),
        > as the best information we have at the moment suggests that corsets (as
        > opposed to an underdress with a stiffened bodice, which gives a similar
        > silhouette) probably didn't turn up until around the 1580s or 1590s (it
        > basically required somebody to have the brainwave that now bodices are boned
        > they will stay in place without the weight of the skirt holding them down
        > and we can make the bodice and skirt as separate garments). And overall I am
        > happier with the Elizabethan pattern than the Tudor pattern (it has some
        > minor inaccuracies I would nitpick, e.g. cross lacing instead of spiral
        > lacing, but nothing major).
        >
        > Note my assessment of the Tudor patterns is based on looking at the images
        > online I haven't got a copy of this pattern yet (though I have got a copy of
        > the Elizabethan pattern) Once I have got a copy I may reassess my opinion of
        > the pattern.
        >
        > Alright that is enough of a novel for now (can you tell that Tudor is my
        > passion ;P) if you have more time than money it's possible to improve this
        > pattern, but it's probably not a project for a beginner unless you're good
        > at visualising how two dimensional shapes will look in three dimensions.
        > It's going to be significantly easier to buy a good pattern to start with.
        >
        > Yours in service,
        > -----------------------------------------
        > Elizabeth Walpole | Elizabeth Beaumont
        > Canberra, Australia | Politarchopolis, Lochac
        > http://magpiecostumer.110mb.com/
        >
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