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Re: Scribe/calligraphy questions

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  • Dave Roland
    I started as a Scribe in the Midrealm. Judith Contact THLady Jocelyn of Lutterworth. She is the Midlands Regional Signet and is the person holding Calligraphy
    Message 1 of 21 , Oct 3, 2009
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      I started as a Scribe in the Midrealm.

      Judith Contact THLady Jocelyn of Lutterworth. She is the Midlands Regional Signet and is the person holding Calligraphy and Illumination Nights in your area.

      She is an excellent resource and in the interest of full disclosure is my apprentice sister.

      _All_ scrolls in the Middle Kingdom are original works of art done by the scribes. The Midrealm (AKA Middle Kingdom) does not use printer paper or pre-printed scrolls.

      I myself am a Calligraphy Scribe and have had the pleasure of working with many pre-illuminated scrolls to do court scrolls on. These pre-illuminated scrolls are called scroll blanks. Each of them is hand done original work of art.

      Enjoy your learning experience. People who stick with Calligraphy find it to be a very rewarding hobby in the SCA.

      Ian the Green.
    • Judith Epstein
      ... Paper making would be fun, but what I meant was I wanted to learn to write scroll text. I ll try to be more clear in future. ... Thank you very much for
      Message 2 of 21 , Oct 5, 2009
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        On Oct 2, 2009, at 8:25 PM, Stefan li Rous wrote:

        > Judith asked about the scribal arts:
        > <<< I can't draw, but would like to learn calligraphy and learn to
        > make
        > scrolls. >>>
        >
        > Ah, making scrolls. So you want to learn parchment or paper making?

        Paper making would be fun, but what I meant was I wanted to learn to
        write scroll text. I'll try to be more clear in future.

        > For some info that I have collected over the past, almost 20 years, on
        > calligraphy, see these files in the SCRIBAL-ARTS section of the
        > Florilegium.
        > alphabets-msg (36K) 4/26/99 Alphabets and how they've changed.
        > Beg-C-a-I-lnks (16K) 2/11/05 Links to info on beginners
        > calligraphy and
        > Illumination by Dame Aoife
        > Finn.
        > calligraphy-msg (140K) 2/ 5/08 Inks, papers, calligraphic styles.
        > callig-suppl-msg (47K) 10/15/99 Calligraphy and Illumination
        > supplies.
        > Herald-Scribe-art (14K) 8/19/02 "Heraldry and the Scribe" by
        > Master Giles
        > de Laval.
        > L-Legal-Docs-art (20K) 2/ 9/08 "Large Legal Documents" by Lady
        > Rebecca
        > the Contrary.
        > Here are a
        > couple of files in this section which talk about how the hands changed
        > over time.
        >
        > Paleo-Scribes-art (25K) 9/ 5/97 "An Introduction to Palaeography
        > for
        > Scribes"
        > scrpt-develop-art (57K) 6/20/00 "Societal Influences on Script
        > Development"
        > by Mistress Aquilanne Grace.

        Thank you very much for the above! That'll give me something to look
        through all week.

        > <<< Judith / Master Albrecht Waldfurster's egg >>>
        >
        > Egg? I believe egg whites are used to attach gold foil by scribes...
        > There are also period recipes in the Florilegium for various egg
        > dishes.

        Egg, as in the very basic beginning of life. He's a Pelican, I'm only
        an egg. :)

        Judith / no SCA name yet
        Master Albrecht Waldfurster's egg
        Midrealm, Ayreton, Tree-Girt-Sea (Chicago, IL)
      • Justinos Tekton called Justin
        ... Just to clarify... She was denied posting on another list, not this one. Her post is perfectly acceptable on this list, because it relates to newcomer
        Message 3 of 21 , Oct 5, 2009
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          On Fri, 2009-10-02 at 20:25 -0500, Stefan li Rous wrote:
          > Judith asked about the scribal arts:
          > <<< I tried to join the SCA scribal arts email list, but the request
          > was
          > denied, so I'm asking here. Sorry if it's off-topic. >>>
          >
          > I don't see why it would be considered off-topic. I'd be surprised
          > if
          > the moderator denied your request if you indicated you were an SCA
          > person and were interested in the scribal arts. I would try again,
          > or
          > email the moderator. If there are several, email all of them.


          Just to clarify... She was denied posting on another list, not this
          one. Her post is perfectly acceptable on this list, because it relates
          to newcomer information for scribal arts. :-)

          Kind regards,

          Justin
          List Moderator

          --
          ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
          Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
          Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys
          fesswise reversed sable.

          justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/
        • Justinos Tekton called Justin
          ... As a citizen of the Middle Kingdom, this never ceases to amaze me. I have friends who are calligraphers and illuminators, and so I know the amount of time
          Message 4 of 21 , Oct 5, 2009
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            On Sat, 2009-10-03 at 15:52 +0000, Dave Roland wrote:
            > _All_ scrolls in the Middle Kingdom are original works of art done by
            > the scribes.

            As a citizen of the Middle Kingdom, this never ceases to amaze me. I
            have friends who are calligraphers and illuminators, and so I know the
            amount of time and expense that goes into these beautiful scrolls. I am
            privileged to have received several, and I treasure each one of them.

            The scribes who make these scrolls seldom receive anything more in
            return than a public "thank you" from the royalty. (I will say, the
            Midrealm royalty for the past few reigns have been very good about
            remembering to name and thank the scribes for each court.) Many scribes
            do this not just "once" or "occasionally", but "constantly."

            To me, this sort of behind-the-scenes service is an act of love of the
            highest order, and represents the very best of what we try to be in the
            SCA.

            Justin

            --
            ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
            Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
            Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys
            fesswise reversed sable.

            justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/
          • (no author)
            Here is the response from Mistress Maeva I proised you, shes behind in her email again as shes in full production mode on some new scrolls. Not knowing which
            Message 5 of 21 , Oct 5, 2009
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              Here is the response from Mistress Maeva I proised you, shes behind in her email again as shes in full production mode on some new scrolls.

              Not knowing which kingdom this young lady is from I'd recommend she
              contacts the kingdom Signet Clerk to ask for requirements regarding
              scroll production as these vary greatly from kingdom to kingdom. She
              should also join the scribes' mailinglist for her kingdom (and I have
              no clue as to why her subscription request for a mailinglist denied -
              I've never heard that happen before) and find out if there're any
              active scribes local to her group.


              Generally speaking all talents are desired: illuminators to paint
              artwork, calligraphers to write the words and limners to draw the
              designs. You will find scribes who do any combination of these three,
              some do only one and will do all three. There are plenty of materials
              out there, both online and in print material that teach you the
              medieval and historically accurate way of doing things. Please check
              with your kingdom's signet as to what styles are appropriate, however,
              since we do aspire to study and to re-create the Middle Ages, using
              historical examples to base your artwork on and using a historically
              accurate calligraphy style, also called a script, is always encouraged.


              Hope this helps!

              Cheers!
              Maeva





              Yours in Humble Service,
              Pomestnik Dmitrii Zarekoi Ivanov
              "What man is a man that does not try to make the world better?"
              Kingdom of Heaven




              To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
              From: justin@...
              Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 09:35:00 -0400
              Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Re: Scribe/calligraphy questions





















              On Fri, 2009-10-02 at 20:25 -0500, Stefan li Rous wrote:

              > Judith asked about the scribal arts:

              > <<< I tried to join the SCA scribal arts email list, but the request

              > was

              > denied, so I'm asking here. Sorry if it's off-topic. >>>

              >

              > I don't see why it would be considered off-topic. I'd be surprised

              > if

              > the moderator denied your request if you indicated you were an SCA

              > person and were interested in the scribal arts. I would try again,

              > or

              > email the moderator. If there are several, email all of them.



              Just to clarify... She was denied posting on another list, not this

              one. Her post is perfectly acceptable on this list, because it relates

              to newcomer information for scribal arts. :-)



              Kind regards,



              Justin

              List Moderator



              --

              ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()

              Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)

              Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys

              fesswise reversed sable.



              justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/






















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            • Judith Epstein
              Thank you so much, and thanks to Mistress Maeva. I ve written the Signet Clerk and will see what comes next. Judith / no SCA name yet Protege of Master
              Message 6 of 21 , Oct 5, 2009
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                Thank you so much, and thanks to Mistress Maeva. I've written the
                Signet Clerk and will see what comes next.

                Judith / no SCA name yet
                Protege of Master Albrecht Waldfurster OP
                Middle Kingdom, Barony of Ayreton, Shire of Tree-Girt-Sea (Chicago, IL)

                On Oct 5, 2009, at 1:29 PM, christopher chastain wrote:

                >
                > Here is the response from Mistress Maeva I proised you, shes behind
                > in her email again as shes in full production mode on some new
                > scrolls. [snip]
              • Dave Roland
                ... ************* Having been a scribe in the Middle Kingdom and in Northshield, I must say that I greatly appreciate the public thank yous. I truly do. But
                Message 7 of 21 , Oct 6, 2009
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                  --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Justinos Tekton called Justin <justin@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > On Sat, 2009-10-03 at 15:52 +0000, Dave Roland wrote:
                  > > _All_ scrolls in the Middle Kingdom are original works of art done by
                  > > the scribes.
                  >
                  > As a citizen of the Middle Kingdom, this never ceases to amaze me. I
                  > have friends who are calligraphers and illuminators, and so I know the
                  > amount of time and expense that goes into these beautiful scrolls. I am
                  > privileged to have received several, and I treasure each one of them.
                  >
                  > The scribes who make these scrolls seldom receive anything more in
                  > return than a public "thank you" from the royalty.\

                  *************

                  Having been a scribe in the Middle Kingdom and in Northshield, I must say that I greatly appreciate the public thank yous. I truly do. But I do have to say that the "payment" I get is the smile on the recipient's face as they walk back to their seat holding the scroll.

                  Their Majesties are the ones who chose to give the award or induct someone into an order. The person receiving it is the person who earned it by their deeds and actions. Me? I merely am the person who put pen to paper so the recipient will have a tangible memory and proof. And the smile tells me that it will be a good memory for them and in some small way, I had a part in that. It is a happy service I and other scribes provide.

                  Ian the Green, AoA, APF
                • Justinos Tekton called Justin
                  ... I received a scroll a couple of years ago for an A&S award, for armouring. The scribe who got the illumination assignment took the time to go find a photo
                  Message 8 of 21 , Oct 6, 2009
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                    On Tue, 2009-10-06 at 19:54 +0000, Dave Roland wrote:
                    > Having been a scribe in the Middle Kingdom and in Northshield, I must
                    > say that I greatly appreciate the public thank yous. I truly do. But
                    > I do have to say that the "payment" I get is the smile on the
                    > recipient's face as they walk back to their seat holding the scroll.

                    I received a scroll a couple of years ago for an A&S award, for
                    armouring. The scribe who got the illumination assignment took the time
                    to go find a photo of me on a web site. Then she illuminated the scroll
                    with an excellent rendering of me hammering rivets at a workbench! It is
                    so unbelievably cool! It took some doing, but I was really glad to
                    finally track her down at an event and thank her in person.

                    Justin

                    --
                    ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                    Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                    Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys
                    fesswise reversed sable.

                    justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                  • Stefan li Rous
                    ... Paper making would be fun, but what I meant was I wanted to learn to write scroll text. I ll try to be more clear in future. ... I was joking. I understood
                    Message 9 of 21 , Oct 6, 2009
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                      Judith replied to me with:

                      > Judith asked about the scribal arts:
                      > <<< I can't draw, but would like to learn calligraphy and learn to
                      > make scrolls. >>>
                      >
                      > Ah, making scrolls. So you want to learn parchment or paper making?

                      Paper making would be fun, but what I meant was I wanted to learn to
                      write scroll text. I'll try to be more clear in future.
                      -------

                      I was joking. I understood what your original question was about.

                      However, there are these two files in the SCRIBAL-ARTS section of the
                      Florilegium, for those who might be interested.
                      paper-msg (9K) 9/27/00 Medieval paper. Sources for
                      similar paper.
                      parchment-msg (62K) 1/16/08 Making and buying parchment.
                      substitutes.

                      Unfortunately, not a lot on making paper. Perhaps someone has written
                      or would be willing to write an for the Florilegium. I remember a
                      good, hands-on demo on making paper at Lilies War a few years ago.


                      > <<< Judith / Master Albrecht Waldfurster's egg >>>
                      >
                      > Egg? I believe egg whites are used to attach gold foil by scribes...
                      > There are also period recipes in the Florilegium for various egg
                      > dishes.

                      Egg, as in the very basic beginning of life. He's a Pelican, I'm only
                      an egg. :)
                      --------
                      Okay, just so you don't get hard-boiled or scrambled.

                      Stefan
                      An old egg (or was that odd...)
                      --------
                      THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
                      Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas StefanliRous@...
                      **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org ****
                    • Judith Epstein
                      ... I m pretty sure it s too late for that. I m already a bit scrambled. ;) Judith / no SCA name yet Protege to Master Albrecht Waldfurster OP Middle Kingdom,
                      Message 10 of 21 , Oct 7, 2009
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                        On Oct 6, 2009, at 6:42 PM, Stefan li Rous wrote:

                        >> <<< Judith / Master Albrecht Waldfurster's egg >>>
                        >>
                        >> Egg? I believe egg whites are used to attach gold foil by scribes...
                        >> There are also period recipes in the Florilegium for various egg
                        >> dishes.
                        >
                        > Egg, as in the very basic beginning of life. He's a Pelican, I'm only
                        > an egg. :)
                        > --------
                        > Okay, just so you don't get hard-boiled or scrambled.
                        >
                        > Stefan
                        > An old egg (or was that odd...)

                        I'm pretty sure it's too late for that. I'm already a bit scrambled. ;)

                        Judith / no SCA name yet
                        Protege to Master Albrecht Waldfurster OP
                        Middle Kingdom, Midlands, Ayreton, Tree-Girt-Sea (Chicago, IL)
                      • Dave Roland
                        Egg yolk for tempura in paints. Egg whites for glaire. Egg shells for tempering Oak Gall ink. Ian the Green
                        Message 11 of 21 , Oct 8, 2009
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                          Egg yolk for tempura in paints.

                          Egg whites for glaire.

                          Egg shells for tempering Oak Gall ink.

                          Ian the Green

                          --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Judith Epstein <judith@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > On Oct 6, 2009, at 6:42 PM, Stefan li Rous wrote:
                          >
                          > >> <<< Judith / Master Albrecht Waldfurster's egg >>>
                          > >>
                          > >> Egg? I believe egg whites are used to attach gold foil by scribes...
                          > >> There are also period recipes in the Florilegium for various egg
                          > >> dishes.
                          > >
                          > > Egg, as in the very basic beginning of life. He's a Pelican, I'm only
                          > > an egg. :)
                          > > --------
                          > > Okay, just so you don't get hard-boiled or scrambled.
                          > >
                          > > Stefan
                          > > An old egg (or was that odd...)
                          >
                          > I'm pretty sure it's too late for that. I'm already a bit scrambled. ;)
                          >
                          > Judith / no SCA name yet
                          > Protege to Master Albrecht Waldfurster OP
                          > Middle Kingdom, Midlands, Ayreton, Tree-Girt-Sea (Chicago, IL)
                          >
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