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Re: [SCA Newcomers] Scribe/calligraphy questions

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  • Judith Epstein
    Thanks so much!
    Message 1 of 21 , Oct 1, 2009
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      Thanks so much!

      On Oct 1, 2009, at 12:34 PM, christopher chastain wrote:

      > I forwarded your questions on to a Laurel friend of mine who got her
      > laurelate for scroll work. When she replies back ill post it to the
      > list. Some folks on this list might know her, Mistress Maeva of
      > Trimaris
      >
      > Yours in Humble Service,
      > Pomestnik Dmitrii Zarekoi Ivanov
      >
      > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
      > From: judith@...
      > Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 12:28:13 -0500
      > Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Scribe/calligraphy questions
      >
      > I tried to join the SCA scribal arts email list, but the request was
      > denied, so I'm asking here. Sorry if it's off-topic. [snip]
      >
      > Judith / Master Albrecht Waldfurster's egg
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > _________________________________________________________________
      > Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that’s right for you.
      > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
    • Sara L Uckelman
      ... You might consider joining http://scascribes.ning.com/; pretty much anyone who can confirm they re a real person (or a real SCAdian) can join. (There s
      Message 2 of 21 , Oct 1, 2009
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        Quoth Judith Epstein:
        > > I tried to join the SCA scribal arts email list, but the request was
        > > denied, so I'm asking here. Sorry if it's off-topic. [snip]

        You might consider joining http://scascribes.ning.com/;
        pretty much anyone who can confirm they're a real person
        (or a real SCAdian) can join.

        (There's also one for heralds at http://scaheralds.ning.com/).

        -Aryanhwy




        --
        vita sine literis mors est
        http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/
      • (no author)
        I think I can help... or at least find the right direction. Calligraphy and illumination are not my specialties, though I have been known to dabble a bit in
        Message 3 of 21 , Oct 1, 2009
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          I think I can help... or at least find the right direction.

          Calligraphy and illumination are not my specialties, though I have been known to dabble a bit in this particular art.

          'Usually'... the person creating the document will do both the lettering of the text and the illumination. As far as styles... I have seen many different styles, but the idea is to keep in within the medeival look as much as possible. If you can document the style and such... GOOD FOR YOU!!! That's fantastic. Keep the lettering as close to period styles as you can. It will give the document a more authentic look and add to the medeival experience... especially if what you are doing is an award document.



          Oh yeah... and by the way... Not all of our award scrolls have been done on paper, vellum, or parchment. I've seen embroidered cloth, painted fabric, leather, stone, metal, a stick of rattan, an ostrich egg...

          There are bunches and bunches of stuff to look at on the web. All of them are a good starting point.



          Here's the link to my home Kongdom's scribal gallery. There's some good examples to look at.



          http://scribes.outlands.org/Default.aspx?tabid=832



          Hope that at least helped...



          Have FUN. Make Stuff!!!



          Grellan



          Mast. Grellan O'Conchobhair OL
          Kingdom of the Outlands







          EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
          Join me




          To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
          From: judith@...
          Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 12:42:30 -0500
          Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Scribe/calligraphy questions




          Thanks so much!

          On Oct 1, 2009, at 12:34 PM, christopher chastain wrote:

          > I forwarded your questions on to a Laurel friend of mine who got her
          > laurelate for scroll work. When she replies back ill post it to the
          > list. Some folks on this list might know her, Mistress Maeva of
          > Trimaris
          >
          > Yours in Humble Service,
          > Pomestnik Dmitrii Zarekoi Ivanov
          >
          > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
          > From: judith@...
          > Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 12:28:13 -0500
          > Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Scribe/calligraphy questions
          >
          > I tried to join the SCA scribal arts email list, but the request was
          > denied, so I'm asking here. Sorry if it's off-topic. [snip]
          >
          > Judith / Master Albrecht Waldfurster's egg
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________________________________
          > Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that�s right for you.
          > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >










          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Coblaith Muimnech
          ... This is another of those (many) questions to which the answer will depend at least partly on where you are. When asking questions about S.C.A. practice, I
          Message 4 of 21 , Oct 1, 2009
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            Judith wrote:
            > . . .I can't draw, but would like to learn calligraphy and learn to
            > make scrolls. That'll work if scribes do only lettering, and
            > illuminators don't just color the pictures but also draw the
            > outlines themselves. But if scribes have to make the pictures for
            > illuminators to paint in, I don't think I'd be able to do that.

            This is another of those (many) questions to which the answer will
            depend at least partly on where you are. When asking questions about
            S.C.A. practice, I strongly encourage you to include that information
            in your e-mail.

            In Ansteorra, what's done by whom is entirely up to the individual
            artisan or team of artisans working on any specific project. The
            only people I know of who just color in others' drawings, however,
            are volunteers readying standard award scrolls. (Most scrolls given
            out in Ansteorra start as photocopies on high-quality paper made from
            hand-calligraphed originals with black outline drawings. They're
            painted by volunteers, then delivered to scribal officers for storage
            until they're needed <http://scribe.ansteorra.org/library/
            index.htm>. The names and dates are added to each one before it's
            given out in court.) When entirely hand-made scrolls and charters
            are commissioned, they're typically produced either by single
            individuals or by teams consisting of a calligrapher or two (who do
            all the writing) and an illustrator or two (who do everything else).

            > Are there specific styles that must be used for scribing on
            > official award scrolls, or will any beautiful manuscript style
            > work? That is, does it have to be a documented, Period style
            > ("font") or will anything work as long as it looks old-fashioned
            > and lovely?

            In Ansteorra, the hand used in any custom scroll or charter is at the
            discretion of the artisan(s) making it or the person(s) who
            commissioned it. The hand is usually documentable to a specific
            historical setting--often that of the recipient's persona--and
            consistent with the style of rest of the piece. (If the text is in
            an uncial hand, for example, the illustrations and layout might
            resemble something from the Book of Kells.) Some calligraphers will
            sometimes modify a hand to make it easier for modern Texans to read
            or to accommodate English as the language of the scroll. (For
            instance, eighth-century Irish uncial didn't include the letter "k",
            but it does appear in the standard text for a peerage scroll <http://
            heraldry.ansteorra.org/docs/award_text.pdf>, so a calligrapher using
            that hand and the standard text will typically invent a letter "k"
            that stylistically matches the rest of the uncial alphabet and use
            that.) Others go to a great deal of effort to make the text
            completely historically accurate, up to and including translating it
            into the language used in the inspiration piece(s). (A Book-of-Kells-
            inspired charter might be translated to Old Irish Gaelic, for instance.)

            Those designing master scrolls that are to be reproduced and used
            throughout the Stellar Kingdom are asked to base their work on period
            exemplars, to match their calligraphic hand, layout, and
            illustrations to the appropriate period, and to include information
            on their sources when they submit their work <http://
            scribe.ansteorra.org/articles.htm> <http://scribe.ansteorra.org/
            faq.htm#a15>.

            If you aren't fortunate enough to live in Ansteorra, you might search
            for "College of Scribes" or "scribal guild" and your kingdom's name
            to find details on how things are done there. The Middle Kingdom
            <http://www.midrealm.org/signet/> and Atenveldt <http://
            www.atenveldt.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=Ghq13MGsx8w%
            3d&tabid=86&mid=1384>, for example, both have very detailed scribes'
            handbooks.


            Coblaith Muimnech
            Barony of Bryn Gwlad
            Kingdom of Ansteorra
            <mailto:Coblaith@...>
            <http://coblaith.net>
          • Judith Epstein
            ... Oops, my bad! I m in the Middle Kingdom, Barony of Ayreton, Tree-Girt- Sea. ... Thank you for the information, and especially the links! I hope it s the
            Message 5 of 21 , Oct 1, 2009
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              On Oct 1, 2009, at 4:38 PM, Coblaith Muimnech wrote:

              > When asking questions about S.C.A. practice, I strongly encourage
              > you to include that information in your e-mail.

              Oops, my bad! I'm in the Middle Kingdom, Barony of Ayreton, Tree-Girt-
              Sea.

              > When entirely hand-made scrolls and charters are commissioned,
              > they're typically produced either by single individuals or by teams
              > consisting of a calligrapher or two (who do all the writing) and an
              > illustrator or two (who do everything else). [snip] http://scribe.ansteorra.org/articles.htm
              > [snip] http://www.atenveldt.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=Ghq13MGsx8w%3d&tabid=86&mid=1384
              > [snip] http://www.midrealm.org/signet/

              Thank you for the information, and especially the links! I hope it's
              the same in the Midrealm as in Ansteorra; I might actually be able to
              do something useful, if so. Slammin'. :)

              Judith
              Master Albrecht Waldfurster's Egg
            • Janet
              Judith, As far as I know, the Middle Kingdom doesn t use the photocopy and color in scrolls, but I have heard of people making scroll blanks meaning they do
              Message 6 of 21 , Oct 1, 2009
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                Judith,
                As far as I know, the Middle Kingdom doesn't use the photocopy and color in scrolls, but I have heard of people making scroll blanks meaning they do just the illuminations so the calligraphy can be added later for a specific award text. There is usually a need for someone to add the text later on once it is determined what the blank will be used for. Another might be to find someone who enjoys the illuminations and not so much the calligraphy that you could team up with.

                Here is the site for the Dragon Signet which is the office that handles award scrolls given out by the Kingdom.
                http://www.midrealm.org/heraldry/signet/

                If you look on the right side of that page, there will be contact info for the regional deputies. Try to contact the deputy for your area and he or she could direct you to people who can help you get started.

                This link is for the Middle Kingdom Scribes Yahoo group where you will probably find some more useful information.
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MK-SCRIBES/

                I hope these are of some help to you.

                Janet
                Falcon's Quarry, North Oaken, Middle Kingdom

                ________________________________
                From: Judith Epstein <judith@...>
                To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thu, October 1, 2009 7:02:26 PM
                Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Scribe/calligraphy questions

                Oops, my bad! I'm in the Middle Kingdom, Barony of Ayreton, Tree-Girt-
                Sea.
                Judith
                Master Albrecht Waldfurster' s Egg
              • Judith Epstein
                My comments below. ... Ah! This sounds more and more doable. Thank you! And thank you for the links as well. I know they ll be very helpful to me in my
                Message 7 of 21 , Oct 2, 2009
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                  My comments below.

                  On Oct 1, 2009, at 8:08 PM, Janet wrote:

                  > Judith,
                  > As far as I know, the Middle Kingdom doesn't use the photocopy and
                  > color in scrolls, but I have heard of people making scroll blanks
                  > meaning they do just the illuminations so the calligraphy can be
                  > added later for a specific award text. There is usually a need for
                  > someone to add the text later on once it is determined what the
                  > blank will be used for. Another might be to find someone who enjoys
                  > the illuminations and not so much the calligraphy that you could
                  > team up with. [snip]

                  Ah! This sounds more and more doable. Thank you! And thank you for the
                  links as well. I know they'll be very helpful to me in my beginnings.

                  By the way, I know I keep casting about here and there, lacking focus,
                  rushing into everything I can find, all at once -- heraldry, scribing,
                  service, yurt, tent, vardo. It's because I just have such enthusiasm
                  and so many terrific choices of where to spend my energies. There
                  really IS something for everyone here, and it's like being "trapped"
                  in a candy store, wanting to just grab handfuls of everything and
                  stuff them all into my mouth at the same time, to get the most out of
                  the experience. There's so much to do here that ANYONE would be able
                  to find something that made their little heart flutter. Maybe a lot of
                  somethings. I don't know, as the saying goes (when it's cleaned up a
                  bit), whether to freak or go blind!

                  Judith
                • Stefan li Rous
                  Judith asked about the scribal arts:
                  Message 8 of 21 , Oct 2, 2009
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                    Judith asked about the scribal arts:
                    <<< I tried to join the SCA scribal arts email list, but the request was
                    denied, so I'm asking here. Sorry if it's off-topic. >>>

                    I don't see why it would be considered off-topic. I'd be surprised if
                    the moderator denied your request if you indicated you were an SCA
                    person and were interested in the scribal arts. I would try again, or
                    email the moderator. If there are several, email all of them.

                    <<< I know that scribes do the lettering and illuminators do the
                    painting.
                    I can't draw, but would like to learn calligraphy and learn to make
                    scrolls. >>>

                    Ah, making scrolls. So you want to learn parchment or paper making?
                    Both of these are done in the SCA and there is some information on
                    doing these in the SCRIBAL-ARTS section in the Florilegium. Oh.
                    That's not what you meant? :-) You want to write on materials you get
                    from elsewhere? Well, quite a lot of that is also done in the SCA,
                    although very little is actually done on parchment.

                    <<< That'll work if scribes do only lettering, and illuminators
                    don't just color the pictures but also draw the outlines themselves.
                    But if scribes have to make the pictures for illuminators to paint in,
                    I don't think I'd be able to do that. Which one does the drawings
                    which the illuminators color? >>>

                    After you get good enough, you will sometimes be working with another
                    person who will illuminate a scroll and leave some blank space for you
                    to calig the legalese into, although most of the illumination and
                    calligraphy in the SCA resembles that of period books of hours and not
                    actual legal papers. Period legal papers and letters seldom had any
                    illumination on them.

                    For some info that I have collected over the past, almost 20 years, on
                    calligraphy, see these files in the SCRIBAL-ARTS section of the
                    Florilegium.
                    alphabets-msg (36K) 4/26/99 Alphabets and how they've changed.
                    Beg-C-a-I-lnks (16K) 2/11/05 Links to info on beginners
                    calligraphy and
                    Illumination by Dame Aoife Finn.
                    calligraphy-msg (140K) 2/ 5/08 Inks, papers, calligraphic styles.
                    callig-suppl-msg (47K) 10/15/99 Calligraphy and Illumination
                    supplies.
                    Herald-Scribe-art (14K) 8/19/02 "Heraldry and the Scribe" by
                    Master Giles
                    de Laval.
                    L-Legal-Docs-art (20K) 2/ 9/08 "Large Legal Documents" by Lady
                    Rebecca
                    the Contrary.

                    <<< Are there specific styles that must be used for scribing on official
                    award scrolls, or will any beautiful manuscript style work? That is,
                    does it have to be a documented, Period style ("font") or will
                    anything work as long as it looks old-fashioned and lovely? >>>

                    The handwriting and lettering style differed over time and place. Like
                    the addition of new letters as detailed in the alphabets-msg file
                    above, the scribes learn the handwriting for a particular culture and
                    time. When you start working with someone, hopefully locally, they
                    will probably work with you to learn an easy "hand" and you can then
                    progress to others as your time and interest permits. Here are a
                    couple of files in this section which talk about how the hands changed
                    over time.

                    Paleo-Scribes-art (25K) 9/ 5/97 "An Introduction to Palaeography for
                    Scribes"
                    scrpt-develop-art (57K) 6/20/00 "Societal Influences on Script
                    Development"
                    by Mistress Aquilanne Grace.

                    <<< Judith / Master Albrecht Waldfurster's egg >>>

                    Egg? I believe egg whites are used to attach gold foil by scribes...
                    There are also period recipes in the Florilegium for various egg dishes.

                    Stefan
                    --------
                    THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
                    Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas StefanliRous@...
                    **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org ****
                  • Dave Roland
                    I started as a Scribe in the Midrealm. Judith Contact THLady Jocelyn of Lutterworth. She is the Midlands Regional Signet and is the person holding Calligraphy
                    Message 9 of 21 , Oct 3, 2009
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                      I started as a Scribe in the Midrealm.

                      Judith Contact THLady Jocelyn of Lutterworth. She is the Midlands Regional Signet and is the person holding Calligraphy and Illumination Nights in your area.

                      She is an excellent resource and in the interest of full disclosure is my apprentice sister.

                      _All_ scrolls in the Middle Kingdom are original works of art done by the scribes. The Midrealm (AKA Middle Kingdom) does not use printer paper or pre-printed scrolls.

                      I myself am a Calligraphy Scribe and have had the pleasure of working with many pre-illuminated scrolls to do court scrolls on. These pre-illuminated scrolls are called scroll blanks. Each of them is hand done original work of art.

                      Enjoy your learning experience. People who stick with Calligraphy find it to be a very rewarding hobby in the SCA.

                      Ian the Green.
                    • Judith Epstein
                      ... Paper making would be fun, but what I meant was I wanted to learn to write scroll text. I ll try to be more clear in future. ... Thank you very much for
                      Message 10 of 21 , Oct 5, 2009
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                        On Oct 2, 2009, at 8:25 PM, Stefan li Rous wrote:

                        > Judith asked about the scribal arts:
                        > <<< I can't draw, but would like to learn calligraphy and learn to
                        > make
                        > scrolls. >>>
                        >
                        > Ah, making scrolls. So you want to learn parchment or paper making?

                        Paper making would be fun, but what I meant was I wanted to learn to
                        write scroll text. I'll try to be more clear in future.

                        > For some info that I have collected over the past, almost 20 years, on
                        > calligraphy, see these files in the SCRIBAL-ARTS section of the
                        > Florilegium.
                        > alphabets-msg (36K) 4/26/99 Alphabets and how they've changed.
                        > Beg-C-a-I-lnks (16K) 2/11/05 Links to info on beginners
                        > calligraphy and
                        > Illumination by Dame Aoife
                        > Finn.
                        > calligraphy-msg (140K) 2/ 5/08 Inks, papers, calligraphic styles.
                        > callig-suppl-msg (47K) 10/15/99 Calligraphy and Illumination
                        > supplies.
                        > Herald-Scribe-art (14K) 8/19/02 "Heraldry and the Scribe" by
                        > Master Giles
                        > de Laval.
                        > L-Legal-Docs-art (20K) 2/ 9/08 "Large Legal Documents" by Lady
                        > Rebecca
                        > the Contrary.
                        > Here are a
                        > couple of files in this section which talk about how the hands changed
                        > over time.
                        >
                        > Paleo-Scribes-art (25K) 9/ 5/97 "An Introduction to Palaeography
                        > for
                        > Scribes"
                        > scrpt-develop-art (57K) 6/20/00 "Societal Influences on Script
                        > Development"
                        > by Mistress Aquilanne Grace.

                        Thank you very much for the above! That'll give me something to look
                        through all week.

                        > <<< Judith / Master Albrecht Waldfurster's egg >>>
                        >
                        > Egg? I believe egg whites are used to attach gold foil by scribes...
                        > There are also period recipes in the Florilegium for various egg
                        > dishes.

                        Egg, as in the very basic beginning of life. He's a Pelican, I'm only
                        an egg. :)

                        Judith / no SCA name yet
                        Master Albrecht Waldfurster's egg
                        Midrealm, Ayreton, Tree-Girt-Sea (Chicago, IL)
                      • Justinos Tekton called Justin
                        ... Just to clarify... She was denied posting on another list, not this one. Her post is perfectly acceptable on this list, because it relates to newcomer
                        Message 11 of 21 , Oct 5, 2009
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                          On Fri, 2009-10-02 at 20:25 -0500, Stefan li Rous wrote:
                          > Judith asked about the scribal arts:
                          > <<< I tried to join the SCA scribal arts email list, but the request
                          > was
                          > denied, so I'm asking here. Sorry if it's off-topic. >>>
                          >
                          > I don't see why it would be considered off-topic. I'd be surprised
                          > if
                          > the moderator denied your request if you indicated you were an SCA
                          > person and were interested in the scribal arts. I would try again,
                          > or
                          > email the moderator. If there are several, email all of them.


                          Just to clarify... She was denied posting on another list, not this
                          one. Her post is perfectly acceptable on this list, because it relates
                          to newcomer information for scribal arts. :-)

                          Kind regards,

                          Justin
                          List Moderator

                          --
                          ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                          Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                          Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys
                          fesswise reversed sable.

                          justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                        • Justinos Tekton called Justin
                          ... As a citizen of the Middle Kingdom, this never ceases to amaze me. I have friends who are calligraphers and illuminators, and so I know the amount of time
                          Message 12 of 21 , Oct 5, 2009
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                            On Sat, 2009-10-03 at 15:52 +0000, Dave Roland wrote:
                            > _All_ scrolls in the Middle Kingdom are original works of art done by
                            > the scribes.

                            As a citizen of the Middle Kingdom, this never ceases to amaze me. I
                            have friends who are calligraphers and illuminators, and so I know the
                            amount of time and expense that goes into these beautiful scrolls. I am
                            privileged to have received several, and I treasure each one of them.

                            The scribes who make these scrolls seldom receive anything more in
                            return than a public "thank you" from the royalty. (I will say, the
                            Midrealm royalty for the past few reigns have been very good about
                            remembering to name and thank the scribes for each court.) Many scribes
                            do this not just "once" or "occasionally", but "constantly."

                            To me, this sort of behind-the-scenes service is an act of love of the
                            highest order, and represents the very best of what we try to be in the
                            SCA.

                            Justin

                            --
                            ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                            Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                            Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys
                            fesswise reversed sable.

                            justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                          • (no author)
                            Here is the response from Mistress Maeva I proised you, shes behind in her email again as shes in full production mode on some new scrolls. Not knowing which
                            Message 13 of 21 , Oct 5, 2009
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                              Here is the response from Mistress Maeva I proised you, shes behind in her email again as shes in full production mode on some new scrolls.

                              Not knowing which kingdom this young lady is from I'd recommend she
                              contacts the kingdom Signet Clerk to ask for requirements regarding
                              scroll production as these vary greatly from kingdom to kingdom. She
                              should also join the scribes' mailinglist for her kingdom (and I have
                              no clue as to why her subscription request for a mailinglist denied -
                              I've never heard that happen before) and find out if there're any
                              active scribes local to her group.


                              Generally speaking all talents are desired: illuminators to paint
                              artwork, calligraphers to write the words and limners to draw the
                              designs. You will find scribes who do any combination of these three,
                              some do only one and will do all three. There are plenty of materials
                              out there, both online and in print material that teach you the
                              medieval and historically accurate way of doing things. Please check
                              with your kingdom's signet as to what styles are appropriate, however,
                              since we do aspire to study and to re-create the Middle Ages, using
                              historical examples to base your artwork on and using a historically
                              accurate calligraphy style, also called a script, is always encouraged.


                              Hope this helps!

                              Cheers!
                              Maeva





                              Yours in Humble Service,
                              Pomestnik Dmitrii Zarekoi Ivanov
                              "What man is a man that does not try to make the world better?"
                              Kingdom of Heaven




                              To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                              From: justin@...
                              Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 09:35:00 -0400
                              Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Re: Scribe/calligraphy questions





















                              On Fri, 2009-10-02 at 20:25 -0500, Stefan li Rous wrote:

                              > Judith asked about the scribal arts:

                              > <<< I tried to join the SCA scribal arts email list, but the request

                              > was

                              > denied, so I'm asking here. Sorry if it's off-topic. >>>

                              >

                              > I don't see why it would be considered off-topic. I'd be surprised

                              > if

                              > the moderator denied your request if you indicated you were an SCA

                              > person and were interested in the scribal arts. I would try again,

                              > or

                              > email the moderator. If there are several, email all of them.



                              Just to clarify... She was denied posting on another list, not this

                              one. Her post is perfectly acceptable on this list, because it relates

                              to newcomer information for scribal arts. :-)



                              Kind regards,



                              Justin

                              List Moderator



                              --

                              ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()

                              Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)

                              Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys

                              fesswise reversed sable.



                              justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/






















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                            • Judith Epstein
                              Thank you so much, and thanks to Mistress Maeva. I ve written the Signet Clerk and will see what comes next. Judith / no SCA name yet Protege of Master
                              Message 14 of 21 , Oct 5, 2009
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                                Thank you so much, and thanks to Mistress Maeva. I've written the
                                Signet Clerk and will see what comes next.

                                Judith / no SCA name yet
                                Protege of Master Albrecht Waldfurster OP
                                Middle Kingdom, Barony of Ayreton, Shire of Tree-Girt-Sea (Chicago, IL)

                                On Oct 5, 2009, at 1:29 PM, christopher chastain wrote:

                                >
                                > Here is the response from Mistress Maeva I proised you, shes behind
                                > in her email again as shes in full production mode on some new
                                > scrolls. [snip]
                              • Dave Roland
                                ... ************* Having been a scribe in the Middle Kingdom and in Northshield, I must say that I greatly appreciate the public thank yous. I truly do. But
                                Message 15 of 21 , Oct 6, 2009
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                                  --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Justinos Tekton called Justin <justin@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > On Sat, 2009-10-03 at 15:52 +0000, Dave Roland wrote:
                                  > > _All_ scrolls in the Middle Kingdom are original works of art done by
                                  > > the scribes.
                                  >
                                  > As a citizen of the Middle Kingdom, this never ceases to amaze me. I
                                  > have friends who are calligraphers and illuminators, and so I know the
                                  > amount of time and expense that goes into these beautiful scrolls. I am
                                  > privileged to have received several, and I treasure each one of them.
                                  >
                                  > The scribes who make these scrolls seldom receive anything more in
                                  > return than a public "thank you" from the royalty.\

                                  *************

                                  Having been a scribe in the Middle Kingdom and in Northshield, I must say that I greatly appreciate the public thank yous. I truly do. But I do have to say that the "payment" I get is the smile on the recipient's face as they walk back to their seat holding the scroll.

                                  Their Majesties are the ones who chose to give the award or induct someone into an order. The person receiving it is the person who earned it by their deeds and actions. Me? I merely am the person who put pen to paper so the recipient will have a tangible memory and proof. And the smile tells me that it will be a good memory for them and in some small way, I had a part in that. It is a happy service I and other scribes provide.

                                  Ian the Green, AoA, APF
                                • Justinos Tekton called Justin
                                  ... I received a scroll a couple of years ago for an A&S award, for armouring. The scribe who got the illumination assignment took the time to go find a photo
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Oct 6, 2009
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                                    On Tue, 2009-10-06 at 19:54 +0000, Dave Roland wrote:
                                    > Having been a scribe in the Middle Kingdom and in Northshield, I must
                                    > say that I greatly appreciate the public thank yous. I truly do. But
                                    > I do have to say that the "payment" I get is the smile on the
                                    > recipient's face as they walk back to their seat holding the scroll.

                                    I received a scroll a couple of years ago for an A&S award, for
                                    armouring. The scribe who got the illumination assignment took the time
                                    to go find a photo of me on a web site. Then she illuminated the scroll
                                    with an excellent rendering of me hammering rivets at a workbench! It is
                                    so unbelievably cool! It took some doing, but I was really glad to
                                    finally track her down at an event and thank her in person.

                                    Justin

                                    --
                                    ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                                    Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                                    Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys
                                    fesswise reversed sable.

                                    justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                                  • Stefan li Rous
                                    ... Paper making would be fun, but what I meant was I wanted to learn to write scroll text. I ll try to be more clear in future. ... I was joking. I understood
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Oct 6, 2009
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                                      Judith replied to me with:

                                      > Judith asked about the scribal arts:
                                      > <<< I can't draw, but would like to learn calligraphy and learn to
                                      > make scrolls. >>>
                                      >
                                      > Ah, making scrolls. So you want to learn parchment or paper making?

                                      Paper making would be fun, but what I meant was I wanted to learn to
                                      write scroll text. I'll try to be more clear in future.
                                      -------

                                      I was joking. I understood what your original question was about.

                                      However, there are these two files in the SCRIBAL-ARTS section of the
                                      Florilegium, for those who might be interested.
                                      paper-msg (9K) 9/27/00 Medieval paper. Sources for
                                      similar paper.
                                      parchment-msg (62K) 1/16/08 Making and buying parchment.
                                      substitutes.

                                      Unfortunately, not a lot on making paper. Perhaps someone has written
                                      or would be willing to write an for the Florilegium. I remember a
                                      good, hands-on demo on making paper at Lilies War a few years ago.


                                      > <<< Judith / Master Albrecht Waldfurster's egg >>>
                                      >
                                      > Egg? I believe egg whites are used to attach gold foil by scribes...
                                      > There are also period recipes in the Florilegium for various egg
                                      > dishes.

                                      Egg, as in the very basic beginning of life. He's a Pelican, I'm only
                                      an egg. :)
                                      --------
                                      Okay, just so you don't get hard-boiled or scrambled.

                                      Stefan
                                      An old egg (or was that odd...)
                                      --------
                                      THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
                                      Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas StefanliRous@...
                                      **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org ****
                                    • Judith Epstein
                                      ... I m pretty sure it s too late for that. I m already a bit scrambled. ;) Judith / no SCA name yet Protege to Master Albrecht Waldfurster OP Middle Kingdom,
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Oct 7, 2009
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                                        On Oct 6, 2009, at 6:42 PM, Stefan li Rous wrote:

                                        >> <<< Judith / Master Albrecht Waldfurster's egg >>>
                                        >>
                                        >> Egg? I believe egg whites are used to attach gold foil by scribes...
                                        >> There are also period recipes in the Florilegium for various egg
                                        >> dishes.
                                        >
                                        > Egg, as in the very basic beginning of life. He's a Pelican, I'm only
                                        > an egg. :)
                                        > --------
                                        > Okay, just so you don't get hard-boiled or scrambled.
                                        >
                                        > Stefan
                                        > An old egg (or was that odd...)

                                        I'm pretty sure it's too late for that. I'm already a bit scrambled. ;)

                                        Judith / no SCA name yet
                                        Protege to Master Albrecht Waldfurster OP
                                        Middle Kingdom, Midlands, Ayreton, Tree-Girt-Sea (Chicago, IL)
                                      • Dave Roland
                                        Egg yolk for tempura in paints. Egg whites for glaire. Egg shells for tempering Oak Gall ink. Ian the Green
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Oct 8, 2009
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                                          Egg yolk for tempura in paints.

                                          Egg whites for glaire.

                                          Egg shells for tempering Oak Gall ink.

                                          Ian the Green

                                          --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Judith Epstein <judith@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > On Oct 6, 2009, at 6:42 PM, Stefan li Rous wrote:
                                          >
                                          > >> <<< Judith / Master Albrecht Waldfurster's egg >>>
                                          > >>
                                          > >> Egg? I believe egg whites are used to attach gold foil by scribes...
                                          > >> There are also period recipes in the Florilegium for various egg
                                          > >> dishes.
                                          > >
                                          > > Egg, as in the very basic beginning of life. He's a Pelican, I'm only
                                          > > an egg. :)
                                          > > --------
                                          > > Okay, just so you don't get hard-boiled or scrambled.
                                          > >
                                          > > Stefan
                                          > > An old egg (or was that odd...)
                                          >
                                          > I'm pretty sure it's too late for that. I'm already a bit scrambled. ;)
                                          >
                                          > Judith / no SCA name yet
                                          > Protege to Master Albrecht Waldfurster OP
                                          > Middle Kingdom, Midlands, Ayreton, Tree-Girt-Sea (Chicago, IL)
                                          >
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