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Scribe/calligraphy questions

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  • Judith Epstein
    I tried to join the SCA scribal arts email list, but the request was denied, so I m asking here. Sorry if it s off-topic. I know that scribes do the lettering
    Message 1 of 21 , Oct 1, 2009
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      I tried to join the SCA scribal arts email list, but the request was
      denied, so I'm asking here. Sorry if it's off-topic.

      I know that scribes do the lettering and illuminators do the painting.
      I can't draw, but would like to learn calligraphy and learn to make
      scrolls. That'll work if scribes do only lettering, and illuminators
      don't just color the pictures but also draw the outlines themselves.
      But if scribes have to make the pictures for illuminators to paint in,
      I don't think I'd be able to do that. Which one does the drawings
      which the illuminators color?

      Are there specific styles that must be used for scribing on official
      award scrolls, or will any beautiful manuscript style work? That is,
      does it have to be a documented, Period style ("font") or will
      anything work as long as it looks old-fashioned and lovely?

      Judith / Master Albrecht Waldfurster's egg
    • christopher chastain
      I forwarded your questions on to a Laurel friend of mine who got her laurelate for scroll work. When she replies back ill post it to the list. Some folks on
      Message 2 of 21 , Oct 1, 2009
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        I forwarded your questions on to a Laurel friend of mine who got her laurelate for scroll work. When she replies back ill post it to the list. Some folks on this list might know her, Mistress Maeva of Trimaris





        Yours in Humble Service,
        Pomestnik Dmitrii Zarekoi Ivanov






        To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
        From: judith@...
        Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 12:28:13 -0500
        Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Scribe/calligraphy questions





        I tried to join the SCA scribal arts email list, but the request was
        denied, so I'm asking here. Sorry if it's off-topic.

        I know that scribes do the lettering and illuminators do the painting.
        I can't draw, but would like to learn calligraphy and learn to make
        scrolls. That'll work if scribes do only lettering, and illuminators
        don't just color the pictures but also draw the outlines themselves.
        But if scribes have to make the pictures for illuminators to paint in,
        I don't think I'd be able to do that. Which one does the drawings
        which the illuminators color?

        Are there specific styles that must be used for scribing on official
        award scrolls, or will any beautiful manuscript style work? That is,
        does it have to be a documented, Period style ("font") or will
        anything work as long as it looks old-fashioned and lovely?

        Judith / Master Albrecht Waldfurster's egg








        _________________________________________________________________
        Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that�s right for you.
        http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Judith Epstein
        Thanks so much!
        Message 3 of 21 , Oct 1, 2009
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          Thanks so much!

          On Oct 1, 2009, at 12:34 PM, christopher chastain wrote:

          > I forwarded your questions on to a Laurel friend of mine who got her
          > laurelate for scroll work. When she replies back ill post it to the
          > list. Some folks on this list might know her, Mistress Maeva of
          > Trimaris
          >
          > Yours in Humble Service,
          > Pomestnik Dmitrii Zarekoi Ivanov
          >
          > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
          > From: judith@...
          > Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 12:28:13 -0500
          > Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Scribe/calligraphy questions
          >
          > I tried to join the SCA scribal arts email list, but the request was
          > denied, so I'm asking here. Sorry if it's off-topic. [snip]
          >
          > Judith / Master Albrecht Waldfurster's egg
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > _________________________________________________________________
          > Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that’s right for you.
          > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • Sara L Uckelman
          ... You might consider joining http://scascribes.ning.com/; pretty much anyone who can confirm they re a real person (or a real SCAdian) can join. (There s
          Message 4 of 21 , Oct 1, 2009
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            Quoth Judith Epstein:
            > > I tried to join the SCA scribal arts email list, but the request was
            > > denied, so I'm asking here. Sorry if it's off-topic. [snip]

            You might consider joining http://scascribes.ning.com/;
            pretty much anyone who can confirm they're a real person
            (or a real SCAdian) can join.

            (There's also one for heralds at http://scaheralds.ning.com/).

            -Aryanhwy




            --
            vita sine literis mors est
            http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/
          • (no author)
            I think I can help... or at least find the right direction. Calligraphy and illumination are not my specialties, though I have been known to dabble a bit in
            Message 5 of 21 , Oct 1, 2009
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              I think I can help... or at least find the right direction.

              Calligraphy and illumination are not my specialties, though I have been known to dabble a bit in this particular art.

              'Usually'... the person creating the document will do both the lettering of the text and the illumination. As far as styles... I have seen many different styles, but the idea is to keep in within the medeival look as much as possible. If you can document the style and such... GOOD FOR YOU!!! That's fantastic. Keep the lettering as close to period styles as you can. It will give the document a more authentic look and add to the medeival experience... especially if what you are doing is an award document.



              Oh yeah... and by the way... Not all of our award scrolls have been done on paper, vellum, or parchment. I've seen embroidered cloth, painted fabric, leather, stone, metal, a stick of rattan, an ostrich egg...

              There are bunches and bunches of stuff to look at on the web. All of them are a good starting point.



              Here's the link to my home Kongdom's scribal gallery. There's some good examples to look at.



              http://scribes.outlands.org/Default.aspx?tabid=832



              Hope that at least helped...



              Have FUN. Make Stuff!!!



              Grellan



              Mast. Grellan O'Conchobhair OL
              Kingdom of the Outlands







              EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
              Join me




              To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
              From: judith@...
              Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 12:42:30 -0500
              Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Scribe/calligraphy questions




              Thanks so much!

              On Oct 1, 2009, at 12:34 PM, christopher chastain wrote:

              > I forwarded your questions on to a Laurel friend of mine who got her
              > laurelate for scroll work. When she replies back ill post it to the
              > list. Some folks on this list might know her, Mistress Maeva of
              > Trimaris
              >
              > Yours in Humble Service,
              > Pomestnik Dmitrii Zarekoi Ivanov
              >
              > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
              > From: judith@...
              > Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 12:28:13 -0500
              > Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Scribe/calligraphy questions
              >
              > I tried to join the SCA scribal arts email list, but the request was
              > denied, so I'm asking here. Sorry if it's off-topic. [snip]
              >
              > Judith / Master Albrecht Waldfurster's egg
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > __________________________________________________________
              > Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that�s right for you.
              > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >










              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Coblaith Muimnech
              ... This is another of those (many) questions to which the answer will depend at least partly on where you are. When asking questions about S.C.A. practice, I
              Message 6 of 21 , Oct 1, 2009
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                Judith wrote:
                > . . .I can't draw, but would like to learn calligraphy and learn to
                > make scrolls. That'll work if scribes do only lettering, and
                > illuminators don't just color the pictures but also draw the
                > outlines themselves. But if scribes have to make the pictures for
                > illuminators to paint in, I don't think I'd be able to do that.

                This is another of those (many) questions to which the answer will
                depend at least partly on where you are. When asking questions about
                S.C.A. practice, I strongly encourage you to include that information
                in your e-mail.

                In Ansteorra, what's done by whom is entirely up to the individual
                artisan or team of artisans working on any specific project. The
                only people I know of who just color in others' drawings, however,
                are volunteers readying standard award scrolls. (Most scrolls given
                out in Ansteorra start as photocopies on high-quality paper made from
                hand-calligraphed originals with black outline drawings. They're
                painted by volunteers, then delivered to scribal officers for storage
                until they're needed <http://scribe.ansteorra.org/library/
                index.htm>. The names and dates are added to each one before it's
                given out in court.) When entirely hand-made scrolls and charters
                are commissioned, they're typically produced either by single
                individuals or by teams consisting of a calligrapher or two (who do
                all the writing) and an illustrator or two (who do everything else).

                > Are there specific styles that must be used for scribing on
                > official award scrolls, or will any beautiful manuscript style
                > work? That is, does it have to be a documented, Period style
                > ("font") or will anything work as long as it looks old-fashioned
                > and lovely?

                In Ansteorra, the hand used in any custom scroll or charter is at the
                discretion of the artisan(s) making it or the person(s) who
                commissioned it. The hand is usually documentable to a specific
                historical setting--often that of the recipient's persona--and
                consistent with the style of rest of the piece. (If the text is in
                an uncial hand, for example, the illustrations and layout might
                resemble something from the Book of Kells.) Some calligraphers will
                sometimes modify a hand to make it easier for modern Texans to read
                or to accommodate English as the language of the scroll. (For
                instance, eighth-century Irish uncial didn't include the letter "k",
                but it does appear in the standard text for a peerage scroll <http://
                heraldry.ansteorra.org/docs/award_text.pdf>, so a calligrapher using
                that hand and the standard text will typically invent a letter "k"
                that stylistically matches the rest of the uncial alphabet and use
                that.) Others go to a great deal of effort to make the text
                completely historically accurate, up to and including translating it
                into the language used in the inspiration piece(s). (A Book-of-Kells-
                inspired charter might be translated to Old Irish Gaelic, for instance.)

                Those designing master scrolls that are to be reproduced and used
                throughout the Stellar Kingdom are asked to base their work on period
                exemplars, to match their calligraphic hand, layout, and
                illustrations to the appropriate period, and to include information
                on their sources when they submit their work <http://
                scribe.ansteorra.org/articles.htm> <http://scribe.ansteorra.org/
                faq.htm#a15>.

                If you aren't fortunate enough to live in Ansteorra, you might search
                for "College of Scribes" or "scribal guild" and your kingdom's name
                to find details on how things are done there. The Middle Kingdom
                <http://www.midrealm.org/signet/> and Atenveldt <http://
                www.atenveldt.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=Ghq13MGsx8w%
                3d&tabid=86&mid=1384>, for example, both have very detailed scribes'
                handbooks.


                Coblaith Muimnech
                Barony of Bryn Gwlad
                Kingdom of Ansteorra
                <mailto:Coblaith@...>
                <http://coblaith.net>
              • Judith Epstein
                ... Oops, my bad! I m in the Middle Kingdom, Barony of Ayreton, Tree-Girt- Sea. ... Thank you for the information, and especially the links! I hope it s the
                Message 7 of 21 , Oct 1, 2009
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                  On Oct 1, 2009, at 4:38 PM, Coblaith Muimnech wrote:

                  > When asking questions about S.C.A. practice, I strongly encourage
                  > you to include that information in your e-mail.

                  Oops, my bad! I'm in the Middle Kingdom, Barony of Ayreton, Tree-Girt-
                  Sea.

                  > When entirely hand-made scrolls and charters are commissioned,
                  > they're typically produced either by single individuals or by teams
                  > consisting of a calligrapher or two (who do all the writing) and an
                  > illustrator or two (who do everything else). [snip] http://scribe.ansteorra.org/articles.htm
                  > [snip] http://www.atenveldt.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=Ghq13MGsx8w%3d&tabid=86&mid=1384
                  > [snip] http://www.midrealm.org/signet/

                  Thank you for the information, and especially the links! I hope it's
                  the same in the Midrealm as in Ansteorra; I might actually be able to
                  do something useful, if so. Slammin'. :)

                  Judith
                  Master Albrecht Waldfurster's Egg
                • Janet
                  Judith, As far as I know, the Middle Kingdom doesn t use the photocopy and color in scrolls, but I have heard of people making scroll blanks meaning they do
                  Message 8 of 21 , Oct 1, 2009
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                    Judith,
                    As far as I know, the Middle Kingdom doesn't use the photocopy and color in scrolls, but I have heard of people making scroll blanks meaning they do just the illuminations so the calligraphy can be added later for a specific award text. There is usually a need for someone to add the text later on once it is determined what the blank will be used for. Another might be to find someone who enjoys the illuminations and not so much the calligraphy that you could team up with.

                    Here is the site for the Dragon Signet which is the office that handles award scrolls given out by the Kingdom.
                    http://www.midrealm.org/heraldry/signet/

                    If you look on the right side of that page, there will be contact info for the regional deputies. Try to contact the deputy for your area and he or she could direct you to people who can help you get started.

                    This link is for the Middle Kingdom Scribes Yahoo group where you will probably find some more useful information.
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MK-SCRIBES/

                    I hope these are of some help to you.

                    Janet
                    Falcon's Quarry, North Oaken, Middle Kingdom

                    ________________________________
                    From: Judith Epstein <judith@...>
                    To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thu, October 1, 2009 7:02:26 PM
                    Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Scribe/calligraphy questions

                    Oops, my bad! I'm in the Middle Kingdom, Barony of Ayreton, Tree-Girt-
                    Sea.
                    Judith
                    Master Albrecht Waldfurster' s Egg
                  • Judith Epstein
                    My comments below. ... Ah! This sounds more and more doable. Thank you! And thank you for the links as well. I know they ll be very helpful to me in my
                    Message 9 of 21 , Oct 2, 2009
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                      My comments below.

                      On Oct 1, 2009, at 8:08 PM, Janet wrote:

                      > Judith,
                      > As far as I know, the Middle Kingdom doesn't use the photocopy and
                      > color in scrolls, but I have heard of people making scroll blanks
                      > meaning they do just the illuminations so the calligraphy can be
                      > added later for a specific award text. There is usually a need for
                      > someone to add the text later on once it is determined what the
                      > blank will be used for. Another might be to find someone who enjoys
                      > the illuminations and not so much the calligraphy that you could
                      > team up with. [snip]

                      Ah! This sounds more and more doable. Thank you! And thank you for the
                      links as well. I know they'll be very helpful to me in my beginnings.

                      By the way, I know I keep casting about here and there, lacking focus,
                      rushing into everything I can find, all at once -- heraldry, scribing,
                      service, yurt, tent, vardo. It's because I just have such enthusiasm
                      and so many terrific choices of where to spend my energies. There
                      really IS something for everyone here, and it's like being "trapped"
                      in a candy store, wanting to just grab handfuls of everything and
                      stuff them all into my mouth at the same time, to get the most out of
                      the experience. There's so much to do here that ANYONE would be able
                      to find something that made their little heart flutter. Maybe a lot of
                      somethings. I don't know, as the saying goes (when it's cleaned up a
                      bit), whether to freak or go blind!

                      Judith
                    • Stefan li Rous
                      Judith asked about the scribal arts:
                      Message 10 of 21 , Oct 2, 2009
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                        Judith asked about the scribal arts:
                        <<< I tried to join the SCA scribal arts email list, but the request was
                        denied, so I'm asking here. Sorry if it's off-topic. >>>

                        I don't see why it would be considered off-topic. I'd be surprised if
                        the moderator denied your request if you indicated you were an SCA
                        person and were interested in the scribal arts. I would try again, or
                        email the moderator. If there are several, email all of them.

                        <<< I know that scribes do the lettering and illuminators do the
                        painting.
                        I can't draw, but would like to learn calligraphy and learn to make
                        scrolls. >>>

                        Ah, making scrolls. So you want to learn parchment or paper making?
                        Both of these are done in the SCA and there is some information on
                        doing these in the SCRIBAL-ARTS section in the Florilegium. Oh.
                        That's not what you meant? :-) You want to write on materials you get
                        from elsewhere? Well, quite a lot of that is also done in the SCA,
                        although very little is actually done on parchment.

                        <<< That'll work if scribes do only lettering, and illuminators
                        don't just color the pictures but also draw the outlines themselves.
                        But if scribes have to make the pictures for illuminators to paint in,
                        I don't think I'd be able to do that. Which one does the drawings
                        which the illuminators color? >>>

                        After you get good enough, you will sometimes be working with another
                        person who will illuminate a scroll and leave some blank space for you
                        to calig the legalese into, although most of the illumination and
                        calligraphy in the SCA resembles that of period books of hours and not
                        actual legal papers. Period legal papers and letters seldom had any
                        illumination on them.

                        For some info that I have collected over the past, almost 20 years, on
                        calligraphy, see these files in the SCRIBAL-ARTS section of the
                        Florilegium.
                        alphabets-msg (36K) 4/26/99 Alphabets and how they've changed.
                        Beg-C-a-I-lnks (16K) 2/11/05 Links to info on beginners
                        calligraphy and
                        Illumination by Dame Aoife Finn.
                        calligraphy-msg (140K) 2/ 5/08 Inks, papers, calligraphic styles.
                        callig-suppl-msg (47K) 10/15/99 Calligraphy and Illumination
                        supplies.
                        Herald-Scribe-art (14K) 8/19/02 "Heraldry and the Scribe" by
                        Master Giles
                        de Laval.
                        L-Legal-Docs-art (20K) 2/ 9/08 "Large Legal Documents" by Lady
                        Rebecca
                        the Contrary.

                        <<< Are there specific styles that must be used for scribing on official
                        award scrolls, or will any beautiful manuscript style work? That is,
                        does it have to be a documented, Period style ("font") or will
                        anything work as long as it looks old-fashioned and lovely? >>>

                        The handwriting and lettering style differed over time and place. Like
                        the addition of new letters as detailed in the alphabets-msg file
                        above, the scribes learn the handwriting for a particular culture and
                        time. When you start working with someone, hopefully locally, they
                        will probably work with you to learn an easy "hand" and you can then
                        progress to others as your time and interest permits. Here are a
                        couple of files in this section which talk about how the hands changed
                        over time.

                        Paleo-Scribes-art (25K) 9/ 5/97 "An Introduction to Palaeography for
                        Scribes"
                        scrpt-develop-art (57K) 6/20/00 "Societal Influences on Script
                        Development"
                        by Mistress Aquilanne Grace.

                        <<< Judith / Master Albrecht Waldfurster's egg >>>

                        Egg? I believe egg whites are used to attach gold foil by scribes...
                        There are also period recipes in the Florilegium for various egg dishes.

                        Stefan
                        --------
                        THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
                        Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas StefanliRous@...
                        **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org ****
                      • Dave Roland
                        I started as a Scribe in the Midrealm. Judith Contact THLady Jocelyn of Lutterworth. She is the Midlands Regional Signet and is the person holding Calligraphy
                        Message 11 of 21 , Oct 3, 2009
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                          I started as a Scribe in the Midrealm.

                          Judith Contact THLady Jocelyn of Lutterworth. She is the Midlands Regional Signet and is the person holding Calligraphy and Illumination Nights in your area.

                          She is an excellent resource and in the interest of full disclosure is my apprentice sister.

                          _All_ scrolls in the Middle Kingdom are original works of art done by the scribes. The Midrealm (AKA Middle Kingdom) does not use printer paper or pre-printed scrolls.

                          I myself am a Calligraphy Scribe and have had the pleasure of working with many pre-illuminated scrolls to do court scrolls on. These pre-illuminated scrolls are called scroll blanks. Each of them is hand done original work of art.

                          Enjoy your learning experience. People who stick with Calligraphy find it to be a very rewarding hobby in the SCA.

                          Ian the Green.
                        • Judith Epstein
                          ... Paper making would be fun, but what I meant was I wanted to learn to write scroll text. I ll try to be more clear in future. ... Thank you very much for
                          Message 12 of 21 , Oct 5, 2009
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                            On Oct 2, 2009, at 8:25 PM, Stefan li Rous wrote:

                            > Judith asked about the scribal arts:
                            > <<< I can't draw, but would like to learn calligraphy and learn to
                            > make
                            > scrolls. >>>
                            >
                            > Ah, making scrolls. So you want to learn parchment or paper making?

                            Paper making would be fun, but what I meant was I wanted to learn to
                            write scroll text. I'll try to be more clear in future.

                            > For some info that I have collected over the past, almost 20 years, on
                            > calligraphy, see these files in the SCRIBAL-ARTS section of the
                            > Florilegium.
                            > alphabets-msg (36K) 4/26/99 Alphabets and how they've changed.
                            > Beg-C-a-I-lnks (16K) 2/11/05 Links to info on beginners
                            > calligraphy and
                            > Illumination by Dame Aoife
                            > Finn.
                            > calligraphy-msg (140K) 2/ 5/08 Inks, papers, calligraphic styles.
                            > callig-suppl-msg (47K) 10/15/99 Calligraphy and Illumination
                            > supplies.
                            > Herald-Scribe-art (14K) 8/19/02 "Heraldry and the Scribe" by
                            > Master Giles
                            > de Laval.
                            > L-Legal-Docs-art (20K) 2/ 9/08 "Large Legal Documents" by Lady
                            > Rebecca
                            > the Contrary.
                            > Here are a
                            > couple of files in this section which talk about how the hands changed
                            > over time.
                            >
                            > Paleo-Scribes-art (25K) 9/ 5/97 "An Introduction to Palaeography
                            > for
                            > Scribes"
                            > scrpt-develop-art (57K) 6/20/00 "Societal Influences on Script
                            > Development"
                            > by Mistress Aquilanne Grace.

                            Thank you very much for the above! That'll give me something to look
                            through all week.

                            > <<< Judith / Master Albrecht Waldfurster's egg >>>
                            >
                            > Egg? I believe egg whites are used to attach gold foil by scribes...
                            > There are also period recipes in the Florilegium for various egg
                            > dishes.

                            Egg, as in the very basic beginning of life. He's a Pelican, I'm only
                            an egg. :)

                            Judith / no SCA name yet
                            Master Albrecht Waldfurster's egg
                            Midrealm, Ayreton, Tree-Girt-Sea (Chicago, IL)
                          • Justinos Tekton called Justin
                            ... Just to clarify... She was denied posting on another list, not this one. Her post is perfectly acceptable on this list, because it relates to newcomer
                            Message 13 of 21 , Oct 5, 2009
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                              On Fri, 2009-10-02 at 20:25 -0500, Stefan li Rous wrote:
                              > Judith asked about the scribal arts:
                              > <<< I tried to join the SCA scribal arts email list, but the request
                              > was
                              > denied, so I'm asking here. Sorry if it's off-topic. >>>
                              >
                              > I don't see why it would be considered off-topic. I'd be surprised
                              > if
                              > the moderator denied your request if you indicated you were an SCA
                              > person and were interested in the scribal arts. I would try again,
                              > or
                              > email the moderator. If there are several, email all of them.


                              Just to clarify... She was denied posting on another list, not this
                              one. Her post is perfectly acceptable on this list, because it relates
                              to newcomer information for scribal arts. :-)

                              Kind regards,

                              Justin
                              List Moderator

                              --
                              ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                              Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                              Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys
                              fesswise reversed sable.

                              justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                            • Justinos Tekton called Justin
                              ... As a citizen of the Middle Kingdom, this never ceases to amaze me. I have friends who are calligraphers and illuminators, and so I know the amount of time
                              Message 14 of 21 , Oct 5, 2009
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                                On Sat, 2009-10-03 at 15:52 +0000, Dave Roland wrote:
                                > _All_ scrolls in the Middle Kingdom are original works of art done by
                                > the scribes.

                                As a citizen of the Middle Kingdom, this never ceases to amaze me. I
                                have friends who are calligraphers and illuminators, and so I know the
                                amount of time and expense that goes into these beautiful scrolls. I am
                                privileged to have received several, and I treasure each one of them.

                                The scribes who make these scrolls seldom receive anything more in
                                return than a public "thank you" from the royalty. (I will say, the
                                Midrealm royalty for the past few reigns have been very good about
                                remembering to name and thank the scribes for each court.) Many scribes
                                do this not just "once" or "occasionally", but "constantly."

                                To me, this sort of behind-the-scenes service is an act of love of the
                                highest order, and represents the very best of what we try to be in the
                                SCA.

                                Justin

                                --
                                ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                                Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                                Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys
                                fesswise reversed sable.

                                justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                              • (no author)
                                Here is the response from Mistress Maeva I proised you, shes behind in her email again as shes in full production mode on some new scrolls. Not knowing which
                                Message 15 of 21 , Oct 5, 2009
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                                  Here is the response from Mistress Maeva I proised you, shes behind in her email again as shes in full production mode on some new scrolls.

                                  Not knowing which kingdom this young lady is from I'd recommend she
                                  contacts the kingdom Signet Clerk to ask for requirements regarding
                                  scroll production as these vary greatly from kingdom to kingdom. She
                                  should also join the scribes' mailinglist for her kingdom (and I have
                                  no clue as to why her subscription request for a mailinglist denied -
                                  I've never heard that happen before) and find out if there're any
                                  active scribes local to her group.


                                  Generally speaking all talents are desired: illuminators to paint
                                  artwork, calligraphers to write the words and limners to draw the
                                  designs. You will find scribes who do any combination of these three,
                                  some do only one and will do all three. There are plenty of materials
                                  out there, both online and in print material that teach you the
                                  medieval and historically accurate way of doing things. Please check
                                  with your kingdom's signet as to what styles are appropriate, however,
                                  since we do aspire to study and to re-create the Middle Ages, using
                                  historical examples to base your artwork on and using a historically
                                  accurate calligraphy style, also called a script, is always encouraged.


                                  Hope this helps!

                                  Cheers!
                                  Maeva





                                  Yours in Humble Service,
                                  Pomestnik Dmitrii Zarekoi Ivanov
                                  "What man is a man that does not try to make the world better?"
                                  Kingdom of Heaven




                                  To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                  From: justin@...
                                  Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 09:35:00 -0400
                                  Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Re: Scribe/calligraphy questions





















                                  On Fri, 2009-10-02 at 20:25 -0500, Stefan li Rous wrote:

                                  > Judith asked about the scribal arts:

                                  > <<< I tried to join the SCA scribal arts email list, but the request

                                  > was

                                  > denied, so I'm asking here. Sorry if it's off-topic. >>>

                                  >

                                  > I don't see why it would be considered off-topic. I'd be surprised

                                  > if

                                  > the moderator denied your request if you indicated you were an SCA

                                  > person and were interested in the scribal arts. I would try again,

                                  > or

                                  > email the moderator. If there are several, email all of them.



                                  Just to clarify... She was denied posting on another list, not this

                                  one. Her post is perfectly acceptable on this list, because it relates

                                  to newcomer information for scribal arts. :-)



                                  Kind regards,



                                  Justin

                                  List Moderator



                                  --

                                  ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()

                                  Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)

                                  Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys

                                  fesswise reversed sable.



                                  justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/






















                                  _________________________________________________________________
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                                • Judith Epstein
                                  Thank you so much, and thanks to Mistress Maeva. I ve written the Signet Clerk and will see what comes next. Judith / no SCA name yet Protege of Master
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Oct 5, 2009
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                                    Thank you so much, and thanks to Mistress Maeva. I've written the
                                    Signet Clerk and will see what comes next.

                                    Judith / no SCA name yet
                                    Protege of Master Albrecht Waldfurster OP
                                    Middle Kingdom, Barony of Ayreton, Shire of Tree-Girt-Sea (Chicago, IL)

                                    On Oct 5, 2009, at 1:29 PM, christopher chastain wrote:

                                    >
                                    > Here is the response from Mistress Maeva I proised you, shes behind
                                    > in her email again as shes in full production mode on some new
                                    > scrolls. [snip]
                                  • Dave Roland
                                    ... ************* Having been a scribe in the Middle Kingdom and in Northshield, I must say that I greatly appreciate the public thank yous. I truly do. But
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Oct 6, 2009
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                                      --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Justinos Tekton called Justin <justin@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > On Sat, 2009-10-03 at 15:52 +0000, Dave Roland wrote:
                                      > > _All_ scrolls in the Middle Kingdom are original works of art done by
                                      > > the scribes.
                                      >
                                      > As a citizen of the Middle Kingdom, this never ceases to amaze me. I
                                      > have friends who are calligraphers and illuminators, and so I know the
                                      > amount of time and expense that goes into these beautiful scrolls. I am
                                      > privileged to have received several, and I treasure each one of them.
                                      >
                                      > The scribes who make these scrolls seldom receive anything more in
                                      > return than a public "thank you" from the royalty.\

                                      *************

                                      Having been a scribe in the Middle Kingdom and in Northshield, I must say that I greatly appreciate the public thank yous. I truly do. But I do have to say that the "payment" I get is the smile on the recipient's face as they walk back to their seat holding the scroll.

                                      Their Majesties are the ones who chose to give the award or induct someone into an order. The person receiving it is the person who earned it by their deeds and actions. Me? I merely am the person who put pen to paper so the recipient will have a tangible memory and proof. And the smile tells me that it will be a good memory for them and in some small way, I had a part in that. It is a happy service I and other scribes provide.

                                      Ian the Green, AoA, APF
                                    • Justinos Tekton called Justin
                                      ... I received a scroll a couple of years ago for an A&S award, for armouring. The scribe who got the illumination assignment took the time to go find a photo
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Oct 6, 2009
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                                        On Tue, 2009-10-06 at 19:54 +0000, Dave Roland wrote:
                                        > Having been a scribe in the Middle Kingdom and in Northshield, I must
                                        > say that I greatly appreciate the public thank yous. I truly do. But
                                        > I do have to say that the "payment" I get is the smile on the
                                        > recipient's face as they walk back to their seat holding the scroll.

                                        I received a scroll a couple of years ago for an A&S award, for
                                        armouring. The scribe who got the illumination assignment took the time
                                        to go find a photo of me on a web site. Then she illuminated the scroll
                                        with an excellent rendering of me hammering rivets at a workbench! It is
                                        so unbelievably cool! It took some doing, but I was really glad to
                                        finally track her down at an event and thank her in person.

                                        Justin

                                        --
                                        ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                                        Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                                        Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys
                                        fesswise reversed sable.

                                        justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                                      • Stefan li Rous
                                        ... Paper making would be fun, but what I meant was I wanted to learn to write scroll text. I ll try to be more clear in future. ... I was joking. I understood
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Oct 6, 2009
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                                          Judith replied to me with:

                                          > Judith asked about the scribal arts:
                                          > <<< I can't draw, but would like to learn calligraphy and learn to
                                          > make scrolls. >>>
                                          >
                                          > Ah, making scrolls. So you want to learn parchment or paper making?

                                          Paper making would be fun, but what I meant was I wanted to learn to
                                          write scroll text. I'll try to be more clear in future.
                                          -------

                                          I was joking. I understood what your original question was about.

                                          However, there are these two files in the SCRIBAL-ARTS section of the
                                          Florilegium, for those who might be interested.
                                          paper-msg (9K) 9/27/00 Medieval paper. Sources for
                                          similar paper.
                                          parchment-msg (62K) 1/16/08 Making and buying parchment.
                                          substitutes.

                                          Unfortunately, not a lot on making paper. Perhaps someone has written
                                          or would be willing to write an for the Florilegium. I remember a
                                          good, hands-on demo on making paper at Lilies War a few years ago.


                                          > <<< Judith / Master Albrecht Waldfurster's egg >>>
                                          >
                                          > Egg? I believe egg whites are used to attach gold foil by scribes...
                                          > There are also period recipes in the Florilegium for various egg
                                          > dishes.

                                          Egg, as in the very basic beginning of life. He's a Pelican, I'm only
                                          an egg. :)
                                          --------
                                          Okay, just so you don't get hard-boiled or scrambled.

                                          Stefan
                                          An old egg (or was that odd...)
                                          --------
                                          THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
                                          Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas StefanliRous@...
                                          **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org ****
                                        • Judith Epstein
                                          ... I m pretty sure it s too late for that. I m already a bit scrambled. ;) Judith / no SCA name yet Protege to Master Albrecht Waldfurster OP Middle Kingdom,
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Oct 7, 2009
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                                            On Oct 6, 2009, at 6:42 PM, Stefan li Rous wrote:

                                            >> <<< Judith / Master Albrecht Waldfurster's egg >>>
                                            >>
                                            >> Egg? I believe egg whites are used to attach gold foil by scribes...
                                            >> There are also period recipes in the Florilegium for various egg
                                            >> dishes.
                                            >
                                            > Egg, as in the very basic beginning of life. He's a Pelican, I'm only
                                            > an egg. :)
                                            > --------
                                            > Okay, just so you don't get hard-boiled or scrambled.
                                            >
                                            > Stefan
                                            > An old egg (or was that odd...)

                                            I'm pretty sure it's too late for that. I'm already a bit scrambled. ;)

                                            Judith / no SCA name yet
                                            Protege to Master Albrecht Waldfurster OP
                                            Middle Kingdom, Midlands, Ayreton, Tree-Girt-Sea (Chicago, IL)
                                          • Dave Roland
                                            Egg yolk for tempura in paints. Egg whites for glaire. Egg shells for tempering Oak Gall ink. Ian the Green
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Oct 8, 2009
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                                              Egg yolk for tempura in paints.

                                              Egg whites for glaire.

                                              Egg shells for tempering Oak Gall ink.

                                              Ian the Green

                                              --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Judith Epstein <judith@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > On Oct 6, 2009, at 6:42 PM, Stefan li Rous wrote:
                                              >
                                              > >> <<< Judith / Master Albrecht Waldfurster's egg >>>
                                              > >>
                                              > >> Egg? I believe egg whites are used to attach gold foil by scribes...
                                              > >> There are also period recipes in the Florilegium for various egg
                                              > >> dishes.
                                              > >
                                              > > Egg, as in the very basic beginning of life. He's a Pelican, I'm only
                                              > > an egg. :)
                                              > > --------
                                              > > Okay, just so you don't get hard-boiled or scrambled.
                                              > >
                                              > > Stefan
                                              > > An old egg (or was that odd...)
                                              >
                                              > I'm pretty sure it's too late for that. I'm already a bit scrambled. ;)
                                              >
                                              > Judith / no SCA name yet
                                              > Protege to Master Albrecht Waldfurster OP
                                              > Middle Kingdom, Midlands, Ayreton, Tree-Girt-Sea (Chicago, IL)
                                              >
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