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Newbie here! Garb question.

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  • Crystal-Joy
    Hello everyone, Wow I am so glad that this group exists! I am very new to the SCA and its seems so overwhelming to get started! =D Anyway, onto my question.
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 30, 2009
      Hello everyone,

      Wow I am so glad that this group exists! I am very new to the SCA and its seems so overwhelming to get started! =D

      Anyway, onto my question. Does one's garb have to be exactly time period? I am just having a very hard time finding a time period with garb that I would be comfortable wearing. I am definitely a pants-wearing type of girl and although I am pretty sure I am going to create a persona of Indian origin, I don't like the traditional garb of the women of that era.

      Would it be acceptable to tweek historical Indian garb so that it still looks period (and is comfortable for me to wear) but isn't quite historically accurate?

      Thank you for any advice! :)

      Bright Blessings,

      Crystal-Joy
    • Maria Buchanan
      Middle eastern women in period wore pants.  Just so you know. Lady Maria ... From: Crystal-Joy Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Newbie
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 1, 2009
        Middle eastern women in period wore pants.  Just so you know.
        Lady Maria

        --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Crystal-Joy <xcrystalizex@...> wrote:

        From: Crystal-Joy <xcrystalizex@...>
        Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Newbie here! Garb question.
        To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 8:03 AM






         





        Hello everyone,



        Wow I am so glad that this group exists! I am very new to the SCA and its seems so overwhelming to get started! =D



        Anyway, onto my question. Does one's garb have to be exactly time period? I am just having a very hard time finding a time period with garb that I would be comfortable wearing. I am definitely a pants-wearing type of girl and although I am pretty sure I am going to create a persona of Indian origin, I don't like the traditional garb of the women of that era.



        Would it be acceptable to tweek historical Indian garb so that it still looks period (and is comfortable for me to wear) but isn't quite historically accurate?



        Thank you for any advice! :)



        Bright Blessings,



        Crystal-Joy




























        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Coblaith Muimnech
        ... Corpora requires you to wear an attempt at pre-17th century clothing to events . Attempt means try , not do passing
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 1, 2009
          Crystal-Joy wrote:
          > Does one's garb have to be exactly time period?

          Corpora requires you to wear "an attempt at pre-17th century
          clothing" to events <http://sca.org/docs/#govdocs>. "Attempt" means
          "try", not "do passing lip-service" or "make a perfunctory show", so,
          in my opinion, if you're not doing the best you, personally, can
          manage, with your resources (which includes your available funds,
          knowledge, and skills), to wear something that looks like it belongs
          somewhere, some time in our period, you're not living up to the
          letter *or* the spirit of that requirement.

          That said, nobody expects you to do somebody else's best. If you
          don't have the money to buy an authentic silk brocade for that 16th-
          century Italian gown, or don't know how to tablet-weave trim for your
          apron dress, or haven't time before your upcoming first event to do
          the appropriate embroidery on your sleeves, taking shortcuts is
          understandable. As long as you're really trying, you're doing what's
          expected.

          > I am just having a very hard time finding a time period with garb
          > that I would be comfortable wearing. I am definitely a pants-
          > wearing type of girl. . .

          It's fairly common in the S.C.A. for women to have male personae.
          Many of them (maybe most) choose to take that route because they're
          more comfortable in masculine garb, either generally or when
          performing specific tasks (like fighting or shoveling horse poop).
          Some keep their male personae as alternates, and take on female
          personae for court or in other settings where they want to "be
          pretty", but others use the male personae all the time. There is
          absolutely no stigma attached to the practice whatsoever.

          Of course, pants aren't all that common in medieval and Renaissance
          Europe, even for men, but it gives you a few more options.

          > . . .although I am pretty sure I am going to create a persona of
          > Indian origin, I don't like the traditional garb of the women of
          > that era.

          I don't know a great deal about life in India before 1600, but it's a
          large, very culturally diverse place. Are you sure paijama <http://
          en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pajamas> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
          Churidar> and/or salvar <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salwar> weren't
          worn by women, at least in the north, by the 16th century? You might
          ask the members of the S.C.A. India Yahoo! Group <http://
          groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA_India/> whether they know.

          François Pyrard de Laval's account of his stay in Goa around 1607
          reportedly indicates Portuguese men had already adopted paijama as
          sleepwear at that time <http://www.jpgmonline.com/article.asp?
          issn=0022-3859;year=1982;volume=28;issue=3;spage=123;epage=48;aulast=Pan
          dya>. Since they borrowed the fashion from the East, the men there,
          at least, must already have been wearing them.

          > Would it be acceptable to tweek historical Indian garb so that it
          > still looks period (and is comfortable for me to wear) but isn't
          > quite historically accurate?

          If women didn't wear pants in a given setting, I'm not sure I
          understand how you're going to "tweak" yourself into a pair without
          completely abandoning the look of women's clothing from that
          setting. I suppose you could wear a relatively tight pair under a
          long, loose-fitting skirt without too much problem, if that'd satisfy
          your intent.


          Coblaith Muimnech
          Barony of Bryn Gwlad
          Kingdom of Ansteorra
          <mailto:Coblaith@...>
          <http://coblaith.net>
        • Ziddinaaitzumar@comcast.net
          Check out Mongolian personas also; there is a HUGE Mongol population within the SCA that could give you information if you choose to go that route.  Also,
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 1, 2009
            Check out Mongolian personas also; there is a HUGE Mongol population within the SCA that could give you information if you choose to go that route.  Also, check out some of the later-period Moroccan/Moorish personas; I have seen woodcuts that indicated that they wore some sort of 'pants' also...



            Ziddina

            (I am the BIONIC RE-enactor!  "We can RE-build IT!  We can make it BETTER than it was!")


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Coblaith Muimnech" <Coblaith@...>
            To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2009 1:05:58 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain
            Subject: [SCA Newcomers] women in pants (was: Newbie here!. . .)

             




            Crystal-Joy wrote:
            > Does one's garb have to be exactly time period?

            Corpora requires you to wear "an attempt at pre-17th century
            clothing" to events < http://sca.org/docs/#govdocs >. "Attempt" means
            "try", not "do passing lip-service" or "make a perfunctory show", so,
            in my opinion, if you're not doing the best you, personally, can
            manage, with your resources (which includes your available funds,
            knowledge, and skills), to wear something that looks like it belongs
            somewhere, some time in our period, you're not living up to the
            letter *or* the spirit of that requirement.

            That said, nobody expects you to do somebody else's best. If you
            don't have the money to buy an authentic silk brocade for that 16th-
            century Italian gown, or don't know how to tablet-weave trim for your
            apron dress, or haven't time before your upcoming first event to do
            the appropriate embroidery on your sleeves, taking shortcuts is
            understandable. As long as you're really trying, you're doing what's
            expected.

            > I am just having a very hard time finding a time period with garb
            > that I would be comfortable wearing. I am definitely a pants-
            > wearing type of girl. . .

            It's fairly common in the S.C.A. for women to have male personae.
            Many of them (maybe most) choose to take that route because they're
            more comfortable in masculine garb, either generally or when
            performing specific tasks (like fighting or shoveling horse poop).
            Some keep their male personae as alternates, and take on female
            personae for court or in other settings where they want to "be
            pretty", but others use the male personae all the time. There is
            absolutely no stigma attached to the practice whatsoever.

            Of course, pants aren't all that common in medieval and Renaissance
            Europe, even for men, but it gives you a few more options.

            > . . .although I am pretty sure I am going to create a persona of
            > Indian origin, I don't like the traditional garb of the women of
            > that era.

            I don't know a great deal about life in India before 1600, but it's a
            large, very culturally diverse place. Are you sure paijama <http://
            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pajamas> < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
            Churidar> and/or salvar < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salwar > weren't
            worn by women, at least in the north, by the 16th century? You might
            ask the members of the S.C.A. India Yahoo! Group <http://
            groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA_India/> whether they know.

            François Pyrard de Laval's account of his stay in Goa around 1607
            reportedly indicates Portuguese men had already adopted paijama as
            sleepwear at that time < http://www.jpgmonline.com/article.asp?
            issn=0022-3859;year=1982;volume=28;issue=3;spage=123;epage=48;aulast=Pan
            dya>. Since they borrowed the fashion from the East, the men there,
            at least, must already have been wearing them.

            > Would it be acceptable to tweek historical Indian garb so that it
            > still looks period (and is comfortable for me to wear) but isn't
            > quite historically accurate?

            If women didn't wear pants in a given setting, I'm not sure I
            understand how you're going to "tweak" yourself into a pair without
            completely abandoning the look of women's clothing from that
            setting. I suppose you could wear a relatively tight pair under a
            long, loose-fitting skirt without too much problem, if that'd satisfy
            your intent.

            Coblaith Muimnech
            Barony of Bryn Gwlad
            Kingdom of Ansteorra
            <mailto: Coblaith@... >
            < http://coblaith.net >




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Judith Epstein
            Hi, Crystal-Joy! There are a few different styles of clothing that might suit your needs. I don t know how much you ve already learned about Indian traditional
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 2, 2009
              Hi, Crystal-Joy!

              There are a few different styles of clothing that might suit your
              needs. I don't know how much you've already learned about Indian
              traditional clothing, so I apologize if you're already aware of these
              and if this message is redundant.

              Have you looked into salwar kameez? (loose pajama-style trouser or
              harem pant with a long tunic on top, usually worn with a huge scarf
              known as a dupatta) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salwar_kameez

              What about lehenga choli? (loose pajama-style trouser or skirt with a
              matching undershirt such as those worn with saris, sometimes worn with
              a dupatta)

              There are also pirate women who wore trousers, I'm told; Arab women,
              who wear a slightly different cut of salwar kameez (with or without an
              over-abaya or jilbab); Persian women's attire, which often involves a
              loose trouser beneath a dress (doesn't get rid of the dress idea, but
              does eliminate the thigh chafe, which is my chief concern).

              Judith

              On Jul 30, 2009, at 8:03 AM, Crystal-Joy wrote:

              > I am definitely a pants-wearing type of girl and although I am
              > pretty sure I am going to create a persona of Indian origin, I don't
              > like the traditional garb of the women of that era.
              >
              > Would it be acceptable to tweek historical Indian garb so that it
              > still looks period (and is comfortable for me to wear) but isn't
              > quite historically accurate?
            • Crystal-Joy
              First of all thank you for the very kind welcome! Since my post I have actually completely changed my mind with regards to my persona s heritage. =P I have
              Message 6 of 6 , Aug 2, 2009
                First of all thank you for the very kind welcome!

                Since my post I have actually completely changed my mind with regards to my persona's heritage. =P I have actually decided to go with my own personal heritage which is Portuguese. Thank you for all for all of the great information about the Indian clothing, though! As far as wearing trousers, I figured that I would sew my own bodices in the style of Medieval Portuguese/Spanish gowns and wear them with pants and tall boots. I'm sure its not historically accurate, and I do plan on wearing dresses as well actually seeing as they are so gorgeous!

                My husband warned me about the "garb nazis" as he put it. Haha. I will be sure to ignore them. =D

                Thank you again for the welcome and the information!

                --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Judith Epstein <judith@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi, Crystal-Joy!
                >
                > There are a few different styles of clothing that might suit your
                > needs. I don't know how much you've already learned about Indian
                > traditional clothing, so I apologize if you're already aware of these
                > and if this message is redundant.
                >
                > Have you looked into salwar kameez? (loose pajama-style trouser or
                > harem pant with a long tunic on top, usually worn with a huge scarf
                > known as a dupatta) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salwar_kameez
                >
                > What about lehenga choli? (loose pajama-style trouser or skirt with a
                > matching undershirt such as those worn with saris, sometimes worn with
                > a dupatta)
                >
                > There are also pirate women who wore trousers, I'm told; Arab women,
                > who wear a slightly different cut of salwar kameez (with or without an
                > over-abaya or jilbab); Persian women's attire, which often involves a
                > loose trouser beneath a dress (doesn't get rid of the dress idea, but
                > does eliminate the thigh chafe, which is my chief concern).
                >
                > Judith
                >
                > On Jul 30, 2009, at 8:03 AM, Crystal-Joy wrote:
                >
                > > I am definitely a pants-wearing type of girl and although I am
                > > pretty sure I am going to create a persona of Indian origin, I don't
                > > like the traditional garb of the women of that era.
                > >
                > > Would it be acceptable to tweek historical Indian garb so that it
                > > still looks period (and is comfortable for me to wear) but isn't
                > > quite historically accurate?
                >
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