Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [SCA Newcomers] Help! Help! How do various Kingdoms handle "Land" disputes???

Expand Messages
  • Ziddinaaitzumar@comcast.net
    Thanks, (?) Lady Keppel (??)!!  I appreciate your input; I especially liked your illustration of the children in the playground - what child playing freely
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 15, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Thanks, (?) Lady Keppel (??)!!  I appreciate your input; I especially liked your illustration of the children in the playground - what child playing freely and having fun would enjoy being told that they are limited in their choices of playmates - much less so for adults!!



      As with the other two replies, I've added your excellent reply to my info - anonymously, of course.  Thanks again!  Ziddina


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Denise Keppel" <dkeppel@...>
      To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 1:07:19 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain
      Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] Help!  Help!  How do various Kingdoms handle "Land" disputes???






      I guess because I live in Atlanta, I never saw the point of "Your zipcode determines the area you can play in."  I've seen situations where people would commute 60 minutes one way to go to work and choose to play with both groups.  It makes sense to me that a person who likes X,Y, Z would like to go to a group that does X,Y,Z.  And as they play, they start to take leadership roles.

      We don't force kids on the playground to only play with the kids in their own classroom, do we?  We should[n't] force [people to] play only within zip codes [either]...

      My advice is to check kingdom law as what is understood and what is can change... and in this case to make the game fun for all involved needs to.

      --- Ziddina Ait Zumar wrote:

      Help! Help! How do various Kingdoms handle "Land" disputes???


      How do the various Kingdoms handle it when someone lives in one Barony's/Canton' s/Shire's territory but wants to play - and HOLD OFFICE in another's???...

      ..Yeesh. This is the sort of 'politicking' and behind-the-scenes

      wrangling that makes participating in the SCA as much fun as getting my teeth pulled, at times...

      Thanks for any insight/information /assistance you can render regarding this situation!   Ziddina ait Zumar



      Recent Activity


        4
      New Members

      Visit Your Group



      Yahoo! News

      Odd News

      You won't believe

      it, but it's true

      Y! Groups blog

      the best source

      for the latest

      scoop on Groups.

      Sell Online

      Start selling with

      our award-winning

      e-commerce tools.
      .



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • svanarose
      Okay, i have to pipe in here. And i will try and be as........polite as possible so as not to sound like a ranting fool. But reading these posts has the hair
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 15, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Okay, i have to pipe in here. And i will try and be as........polite as possible so as not to sound like a ranting fool. But reading these posts has the hair on the back of my neck standing up.

        I still consider myself a newcomer though im in my second year of being an SCA member. But the one thing i do know and i know because i made contact with SCA headquarters on this issue, you dont have to play within your zipcode.

        When i first took an interest in the SCA and this medevial activity, i tried to connect with the local group where i lived. They sponsored a Ren Faire every year. It was a house, that was desperately trying to become a shire. This group was cliquish. They were picky on who they allowed to play with them. I wasnt the only one that was snubbed. Ive run into many. Those that did make it in, left due to the behavior of this particular group.

        So when i connected with people the next county over, i got told that i better use that counties zipcode because the SCA wouldnt let me be part of that group. That according to my zipcode, i was required to be part of the local group in my area. In my mind, how absolutely ridiculous. To take my money as a member and TELL ME where i CAN and CANNOT go.

        I made contact as i said with headquarters. The answer i recieved officially is..........the zip code is only used to determine census of the populace. Members can participate with whatever group they wish to participate with. They can be official members of whatever shire they choose regardless of zipcode.

        The group im with now, we have people within 3 different counties working to make a new shire develop. If my local group is gonna gripe about members in their area being part of another area's group, then maybe they should quit shutting so many people out who could be of benefit to them.

        The point is.........the SCA doesnt force you to stay within your zipcode.



        --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Sadira Aka Ziddina Ait Zumar" <Ziddinaaitzumar@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > How do the various Kingdoms handle it when someone lives in one
        > Barony's/Canton's/Shire's territory but wants to play - and HOLD OFFICE
        > - in another's???
        >
        > This question is a bit above the average "Newcomer's" level. Let's call
        > it an "Intermediate Member's" question. Maybe it will benefit the
        > newcomers also, as they will get a foretaste of an issue that may affect
        > them in their future in the SCA...
        >
        > I live in a Canton. That is, the U.S. Postal Service zip code area that
        > I live in has been designated as part of a "Canton's" territory.
        >
        > Well and good. I like this Canton, I like the people, it's close to my
        > house and everything was going well - UNTIL!!!
        >
        > Some OTHER people who live in this zip code who were playing with a
        > TOTALLY different Barony - and holding positions as OFFICERS within that
        > Barony - got caught. [The other Barony is AT LEAST 25 miles away, by
        > the way!!!]
        >
        > So now these errant members of that Barony want to claim this zip code
        > for that Barony. That Barony's territory hardly even reaches as far as
        > the territory owned/claimed by my favorite little Canton. The meeting
        > place of the Canton - and its official archery practice location - are
        > both SO close to my house that I can BICYCLE to them!
        >
        > According to the SCA officers of this Canton, there are only two
        > possible solutions:
        >
        > (1) The zip code goes to a Barony that is 25 miles away, and their
        > "Populace Meetings", archery practice, and events are often much farther
        > away...
        >
        > Or: (2) The people in this zip code who choose to burn their gas
        > attending - and hopefully continuing to perform as officers in - the
        > Barony 25 miles away... MUST MOVE... into a zip code that 'officially'
        > belongs to that Barony.
        >
        > Frankly, NEITHER solution sounds workable to me. If the zip code is
        > given to the distant Barony because of a few errant players, what's to
        > stop said Barony from taking yet more territory away from our little
        > Canton as others decide that they want to play with that Barony??? Our
        > little Canton could disappear as a result of a 'hostile takeover', in
        > effect.
        >
        > The THIRD solution - which I'd like to see implemented - would be to
        > ALLOW said Canton members to OFFICIALLY become members of that Barony -
        > as an EXCEPTION - within this zip code. And to make that an official
        > policy, as follows:
        >
        > If said member residing within an SCA group
        > [Barony/Canton/Shire/whatever] wishes to 'play' with a different group
        > [Barony/Canton/Shire/whatever], they must:
        >
        > (a) Not be currently functioning as an
        > officer/nobility/royalty/laurel/knight/whatever within the group they
        > wish to exit/leave...
        >
        > (b) Obtain a letter of permission from the
        > Baron/Baroness/leaders/Senechal/whatever of the group they wish to
        > leave...
        >
        > (c) Obtain a letter of permission from the
        > Baron/Baroness/leaders/Senechal/whatever of the group they wish to
        > join...
        >
        > (d) This transference of group membership shall REMAIN VALID throughout
        > and in spite of any changes in the Monarchy.
        >
        > I would not imply that this would allow a person to switch from one
        > Kingdom to another; but that is also a rare possibility...
        >
        > Yeesh. This is the sort of 'politicking' and behind-the-scenes
        > wrangling that makes participating in the SCA as much fun as getting my
        > teeth pulled, at times...
        >
        > Thanks for any insight/information/assistance you can render regarding
        > this situation! Ziddina ait Zumar
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Ziddinaaitzumar@comcast.net
        Way cool!  Thanks for that information!  Would you consider passing on the name of the person you contacted - or SCA Corpora bylaw - or whatever SCA
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 15, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Way cool!  Thanks for that information!  Would you consider passing on the name of the person you contacted - or SCA Corpora bylaw - or whatever SCA Corporate referenced - so I can pass it on to those who wish to play with - and be officers in - a different Barony than that [Canton] which they are located in??



          By the way, you controlled yourself quite well.  It sounds like you had a beast of a time with that initial group - sounds like some of the [mis]adventures I've had with various members, myself...



          Some of the stories I could tell would curl your hair - a Laurel trying to snatch my hat off my head at a 12th Night celebration without so much as a 'by your leave' because she wanted to get a closer look at it...  And then the others in the Barony [same Barony that's trying to obtain this zip code as their territory] tried to convince me that it was a COMPLIMENT that she behaved so boorishly towards me!!



          A 'knight', his 'lady', and their son who I PAID to take care of my little hamsters for two weeks while I was on vacation - supplied them with EVERYTHING they needed to properly take care of my little tykes...

          Only to return to find that NO-ONE in that monstrous threesome had bothered to FEED OR WATER MY BABIES FOR TWO SOLID WEEKS!!!  [Two of the three died horrible, lingering deaths as a direct result!!]



          And then, to have one of their idiot buddies within the Barony cluck at me in self-righteous loyalty as to what great friends she was with them - without even hearing my side of the story!!  I hope she leaves her beloved little dogs with them for two weeks, if she thinks they're so blasted trustworthy...



          Like I said before, Yeeeesh!  I am so TOTALLY inactive right now, although still a paying member, as a result of this sort of viciousness, stupidity, and sheer brain-dead nastiness!!  Don't know whether I'll ever get over it...



          Thanks for listening.  Ziddina


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "svanarose" <svanarose@...>
          To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:24:24 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain
          Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Re: Help!  Help!  How do various Kingdoms handle "Land" disputes???

           




          Okay, i have to pipe in here. And i will try and be as........polite as possible so as not to sound like a ranting fool. But reading these posts has the hair on the back of my neck standing up.

          I still consider myself a newcomer though im in my second year of being an SCA member. But the one thing i do know and i know because i made contact with SCA headquarters on this issue, you dont have to play within your zipcode.

          When i first took an interest in the SCA and this medevial activity, i tried to connect with the local group where i lived. They sponsored a Ren Faire every year. It was a house, that was desperately trying to become a shire. This group was cliquish. They were picky on who they allowed to play with them. I wasnt the only one that was snubbed. Ive run into many. Those that did make it in, left due to the behavior of this particular group.

          So when i connected with people the next county over, i got told that i better use that counties zipcode because the SCA wouldnt let me be part of that group. That according to my zipcode, i was required to be part of the local group in my area. In my mind, how absolutely ridiculous. To take my money as a member and TELL ME where i CAN and CANNOT go.

          I made contact as i said with headquarters. The answer i recieved officially is..........the zip code is only used to determine census of the populace. Members can participate with whatever group they wish to participate with. They can be official members of whatever shire they choose regardless of zipcode.

          The group im with now, we have people within 3 different counties working to make a new shire develop. If my local group is gonna gripe about members in their area being part of another area's group, then maybe they should quit shutting so many people out who could be of benefit to them.

          The point is.........the SCA doesnt force you to stay within your zipcode.

          ---  Ziddina Ait Zumar" wrote:
          >
          >
          > How do the various Kingdoms handle it when someone lives in one Barony's/Canton's/Shire's territory but wants to play - and HOLD OFFICE - in another's???
          >
          > > I live in a Canton. That is, the U.S. Postal Service zip code area that  I live in has been designated as part of a "Canton's" territory.
          >
          > Well and good. I like this Canton, I like the people, it's close to my house and everything was going well - UNTIL!!!
          >
          > Some OTHER people who live in this zip code who were playing with a TOTALLY different Barony - and holding positions as OFFICERS within that Barony - got caught. [The other Barony is AT LEAST 25 miles away, by the way!!!]
          >
          > So now these errant members of that Barony want to claim this zip code for that Barony. That Barony's territory hardly even reaches as far as the territory owned/claimed by my favorite little Canton. The meeting place of the Canton - and its official archery practice location - are both SO close to my house that I can BICYCLE to them!
          >
          > According to the SCA officers of this Canton, there are only two possible solutions:
          >
          > (1) The zip code goes to a Barony that is 25 miles away, and their "Populace Meetings", archery practice, and events are often much farther away...
          >
          > Or: (2) The people in this zip code who choose to burn their gas attending - and hopefully continuing to perform as officers in - the Barony 25 miles away... MUST MOVE... into a zip code that 'officially' belongs to that Barony.
          >
          > Frankly, NEITHER solution sounds workable to me. If the zip code is given to the distant Barony because of a few errant players, what's to stop said Barony from taking yet more territory away from our little Canton as others decide that they want to play with that Barony??? Our little Canton could disappear as a result of a 'hostile takeover', in effect.
          >
          > The THIRD solution - which I'd like to see implemented - would be to ALLOW said Canton members to OFFICIALLY become members of that Barony - as an EXCEPTION - within this zip code....
          >
          > Yeesh. This is the sort of 'politicking' and behind-the-scenes
          > wrangling that makes participating in the SCA as much fun as getting my teeth pulled, at times...
          >
          > Thanks for any insight/information/assistance you can render regarding this situation! Ziddina ait Zumar
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Justinos Tekton called Justin
          ... A good and fair question for all of us giving advice on this matter. Here are the relevant citations from Corpora for the advice I gave ...
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 16, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            On Thu, 2009-07-16 at 06:58 +0000, Ziddinaaitzumar@... wrote:
            > Way cool! Thanks for that information! Would you consider passing on
            > the name of the person you contacted - or SCA Corpora bylaw - or
            > whatever SCA Corporate referenced - so I can pass it on to those who
            > wish to play with - and be officers in - a different Barony than that
            > [Canton] which they are located in??


            A good and fair question for all of us giving advice on this matter.
            Here are the relevant citations from Corpora for the advice I gave
            earlier:


            >From the SCA Governing Documents, a PDF file located at:
            http://www.sca.org/docs/pdf/govdocs.pdf

            II.B. Requirements for Participants at Society events

            Anyone may attend Society events provided he or she wears an attempt at
            pre-17th century clothing, conforms to the provisions in Corpora, and
            complies with any other requirements (such as site fees or waivers)
            which may be imposed. At business meetings and informal classes, the
            requirement to wear pre-17th century dress may be waived. All
            participants are expected to behave as ladies or gentlemen.


            and from the SCA Bylaws (an appendix to the same PDF document):

            V.2.a. Eligibility for Office.

            Officers at all levels of the SCA must be members and must have
            immediate access to the corporate newsletter for their area provided by
            a subscribing membership at their residence. (Alternate access
            arrangements may be made on a case-by-case basis for people with post
            office boxes and for International Members.) This standard also applies
            to deputies designated as successors to officers subject to this
            provision, or assigned independent administrative duties. Deputies who
            only assist with specific tasks are exempt from the newsletter access
            requirement.


            Do bear in mind that your Kingdom may have Kingdom Laws that impose
            stricter requirements. You should research that as well before pursuing
            this further. :-)

            Kind regards,

            Justin

            --
            ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
            Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
            Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys
            fesswise reversed sable.

            justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/
          • svanarose
            Thank you Justin. I like very much what you put out to SCA newcomers. Besides my own experiences which nearly pushed me away from the SCA a few times, I have
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 16, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Thank you Justin. I like very much what you put out to SCA newcomers. Besides my own experiences which nearly pushed me away from the SCA a few times, I have run into many who have had bad info given them. So my goal as a newcomer is to help other newcomers gain correct info so that they may enjoy the SCA and not run. There are individuals and groups imposing their ideas, desires, wants and control. Fortunately i have come to know others that have helped dispell false info and guide me to seek further knowledge.

              AND IM LOVING IT. Im enjoying events, kingdom and SCA. Loving my garb, loving feasts, loving the camping and loving the friends i make across the country. Dont give up if this is something you know in your heart you want in your life.

              I believe i posted this here once before, but my first and foremost advice to all newcomers is.......if you are being stressed by others that "you have to" , "you must" , or "you cant" ,...take the time to research and make contact with SCA headquarters. From there, your specific kingdom.



              --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Justinos Tekton called Justin <justin@...> wrote:
              >
              > On Thu, 2009-07-16 at 06:58 +0000, Ziddinaaitzumar@... wrote:
              > > Way cool! Thanks for that information! Would you consider passing on
              > > the name of the person you contacted - or SCA Corpora bylaw - or
              > > whatever SCA Corporate referenced - so I can pass it on to those who
              > > wish to play with - and be officers in - a different Barony than that
              > > [Canton] which they are located in??
              >
              >
              > A good and fair question for all of us giving advice on this matter.
              > Here are the relevant citations from Corpora for the advice I gave
              > earlier:
              >
              >
              > >From the SCA Governing Documents, a PDF file located at:
              > http://www.sca.org/docs/pdf/govdocs.pdf
              >
              > II.B. Requirements for Participants at Society events
              >
              > Anyone may attend Society events provided he or she wears an attempt at
              > pre-17th century clothing, conforms to the provisions in Corpora, and
              > complies with any other requirements (such as site fees or waivers)
              > which may be imposed. At business meetings and informal classes, the
              > requirement to wear pre-17th century dress may be waived. All
              > participants are expected to behave as ladies or gentlemen.
              >
              >
              > and from the SCA Bylaws (an appendix to the same PDF document):
              >
              > V.2.a. Eligibility for Office.
              >
              > Officers at all levels of the SCA must be members and must have
              > immediate access to the corporate newsletter for their area provided by
              > a subscribing membership at their residence. (Alternate access
              > arrangements may be made on a case-by-case basis for people with post
              > office boxes and for International Members.) This standard also applies
              > to deputies designated as successors to officers subject to this
              > provision, or assigned independent administrative duties. Deputies who
              > only assist with specific tasks are exempt from the newsletter access
              > requirement.
              >
              >
              > Do bear in mind that your Kingdom may have Kingdom Laws that impose
              > stricter requirements. You should research that as well before pursuing
              > this further. :-)
              >
              > Kind regards,
              >
              > Justin
              >
              > --
              > ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
              > Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
              > Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys
              > fesswise reversed sable.
              >
              > justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/
              >
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.