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Using Sexfoil in Heraldry

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  • intuitiveartisan
    Does anyone know if use of a sexfoil (sixfoil/narcissus) would be acceptable in heraldry for someone who is not a royal peer? I would like to use a sexfoil in
    Message 1 of 11 , May 29, 2009
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      Does anyone know if use of a sexfoil (sixfoil/narcissus) would be acceptable in heraldry for someone who is not a royal peer?

      I would like to use a sexfoil in my heraldry, but they sometimes represent roses, and I was told not to wear roses because they are the symbol for members of the Order of the Rose.

      If anyone knows if this is ok or who I could ask, I would be very greatful. Thank you!

      ~Sarah~
    • christopher chastain
      Im not exactly sure on the rose issue but the best person to ask would be your local herald. They should know if its allowable or not. Yours in Humble Service,
      Message 2 of 11 , May 30, 2009
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        Im not exactly sure on the rose issue but the best person to ask would be your local herald. They should know if its allowable or not.





        Yours in Humble Service,
        Pomestnik Dmitrii Zarekoi Ivanov
        "Man is not Lost!"





        To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
        From: intuitiveartisan@...
        Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 06:32:15 +0000
        Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Using Sexfoil in Heraldry







        Does anyone know if use of a sexfoil (sixfoil/narcissus) would be acceptable in heraldry for someone who is not a royal peer?

        I would like to use a sexfoil in my heraldry, but they sometimes represent roses, and I was told not to wear roses because they are the symbol for members of the Order of the Rose.

        If anyone knows if this is ok or who I could ask, I would be very greatful. Thank you!

        ~Sarah~









        _________________________________________________________________
        Windows Live�: Keep your life in sync.
        http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Spike
        I believe that roses are allowable so long as you do not use a circlet of roses or a Tudor rose. ... From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
        Message 3 of 11 , May 30, 2009
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          I believe that roses are allowable so long as you do not use a circlet of
          roses or a Tudor rose.

          -----Original Message-----
          From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of christopher chastain
          Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 10:00 AM
          To: SCA New Comers
          Subject: RE: [SCA Newcomers] Using Sexfoil in Heraldry


          Im not exactly sure on the rose issue but the best person to ask would be
          your local herald. They should know if its allowable or not.





          Yours in Humble Service,
          Pomestnik Dmitrii Zarekoi Ivanov
          "Man is not Lost!"





          To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
          From: intuitiveartisan@...
          Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 06:32:15 +0000
          Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Using Sexfoil in Heraldry







          Does anyone know if use of a sexfoil (sixfoil/narcissus) would be acceptable
          in heraldry for someone who is not a royal peer?

          I would like to use a sexfoil in my heraldry, but they sometimes represent
          roses, and I was told not to wear roses because they are the symbol for
          members of the Order of the Rose.

          If anyone knows if this is ok or who I could ask, I would be very greatful.
          Thank you!

          ~Sarah~









          _________________________________________________________________
          Windows LiveT: Keep your life in sync.
          http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • Coblaith Muimnech
          ... You may not use as a heraldic charge: a chaplet of roses if you re not a princess, a wreath of roses if you re not a member of the Order of the Rose, a
          Message 4 of 11 , May 30, 2009
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            > I would like to use a sexfoil in my heraldry, but they sometimes
            > represent roses, and I was told not to wear roses because they are
            > the symbol for members of the Order of the Rose.

            You may not use as a heraldic charge:

            a chaplet of roses if you're not a princess,

            a wreath of roses if you're not a member of the Order of the Rose,

            a crowned rose, or

            a Tudor rose,

            because each of those is either reserved or restricted <http://
            heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/coagloss.html#reserved>.

            Any other rose or rose-like charge used in a manner consistent with
            the Rules for Submissions <http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/
            rfs.html> is available to anyone.


            In any event, what you can *wear* is a completely separate issue from
            what you can use in armory (heraldic devices and badges). Even if
            all roses were reserved as charges, that wouldn't mean you couldn't
            pin a rose to your hat or embroider roses on your coif. There are no
            Society-wide rules preventing you from wearing anything you want that
            isn't specifically reserved *as regalia* <http://heraldry.sca.org/
            loar/1999/01/cvr.html>. Wreaths of roses fit this criterion, as they
            are reserved to companions of the Order of the Rose <http://
            heraldry.sca.org/loar/1998/10/cvr.html>. Regular old roses do not.
            Nor do any of the roses that are reserved or restricted only as
            heraldic charges.

            Your kingdom may have sumptuary laws that restrict the wearing of
            some particular arrangement of roses (like a chaplet, for instance).
            If you'll tell us which kingdom that is, we'll try to help you find
            out. (It's always a good idea to specify your kingdom when you send
            any question to the list, by the way. The answer will depend on
            where you are more often than you might think.)

            And the next time somebody tells you something is "not allowed", tell
            them you're eager to learn all the rules, and you'd appreciate it if
            they could specify the source of the one they're citing so you can
            read it for yourself and make sure you've got it straight. If they
            can't give you an answer, take what they're saying with a grain of
            salt. There's a lot of misinformation out there (and not only where
            heraldry is concerned).



            Coblaith Muimnech
            Barony of Bryn Gwlad
            Kingdom of Ansteorra
            <mailto:Coblaith@...>
            <http://coblaith.net>
          • Susan Farmer
            Quoting Coblaith Muimnech : *snip* ... Ain t that the truth! Back when I joined (when rocks were soft and there were only 4 kingdoms)
            Message 5 of 11 , May 30, 2009
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              Quoting Coblaith Muimnech <Coblaith@...>:


              *snip*

              >
              > And the next time somebody tells you something is "not allowed", tell
              > them you're eager to learn all the rules, and you'd appreciate it if
              > they could specify the source of the one they're citing so you can
              > read it for yourself and make sure you've got it straight. If they
              > can't give you an answer, take what they're saying with a grain of
              > salt. There's a lot of misinformation out there (and not only where
              > heraldry is concerned).
              >

              Ain't that the truth! Back when I joined (when rocks were soft and
              there were only 4 kingdoms) I was told that ...

              - the color pink wasn't period
              - buttons weren't period
              - coats weren't period (you had to wear a cloak)
              - belts didn't have holes or the metal (aargh! I've lost the word!)
              piece that fastens it
              - you carried all your worldly possessions on your belt
              - everybody wore drab colors (see comment on pink)

              and I later heard from a friend that she was actually told that *salt*
              wasn't period!

              jerusha
              -----
              Susan Farmer
              sfarmer@...
              Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College
              Division of Science and Math
              http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/
            • Giertrud Gyldenstierne
              lol salt is even BIBLICAL! YIS, Giertrud Gyldenstierne (g yair-trood ghee-yule-den-stee-air-nuh) God is my lyght and saluation, whom then shall I feare? God is
              Message 6 of 11 , May 30, 2009
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                lol salt is even BIBLICAL!
                YIS,

                Giertrud Gyldenstierne

                (g'yair-trood ghee-yule-den-stee-air-nuh)

                God is my lyght and saluation, whom then shall I feare? God is the strength
                of my life, of whom then shall I be afraide?




                > and I later heard from a friend that she was actually told that *salt*
                > wasn't period!
                >
                > jerusha
                > -----
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Justinos Tekton called Justin
                ... Don t tell that to the courtly men of Constantinople! That was one of our favorite colors! Justin -- ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::
                Message 7 of 11 , May 30, 2009
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                  On Sat, 2009-05-30 at 13:04 -0400, Susan Farmer wrote:
                  > - the color pink wasn't period


                  Don't tell that to the courtly men of Constantinople! That was one of
                  our favorite colors!

                  Justin

                  --
                  ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                  Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                  Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys
                  fesswise reversed sable.

                  justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                • Justinos Tekton called Justin
                  ... And it doesn t exactly take high-tech machinery to obtain it, either. If you can t mine it, just evaporate off some seawater from an open container. Justin
                  Message 8 of 11 , May 30, 2009
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                    On Sat, 2009-05-30 at 12:47 -0500, Giertrud Gyldenstierne wrote:
                    > lol salt is even BIBLICAL!


                    And it doesn't exactly take high-tech machinery to obtain it, either. If
                    you can't mine it, just evaporate off some seawater from an open
                    container.

                    Justin

                    --
                    ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                    Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                    Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two keys
                    fesswise reversed sable.

                    justin@... http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                  • intuitiveartisan
                    Thanks everyone! That really helps. ~Sarah~
                    Message 9 of 11 , May 30, 2009
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                      Thanks everyone! That really helps.

                      ~Sarah~


                      --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Coblaith Muimnech <Coblaith@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > I would like to use a sexfoil in my heraldry, but they sometimes
                      > > represent roses, and I was told not to wear roses because they are
                      > > the symbol for members of the Order of the Rose.
                      >
                      > You may not use as a heraldic charge:
                      >
                      > a chaplet of roses if you're not a princess,
                      >
                      > a wreath of roses if you're not a member of the Order of the Rose,
                      >
                      > a crowned rose, or
                      >
                      > a Tudor rose,
                      >
                      > because each of those is either reserved or restricted <http://
                      > heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/coagloss.html#reserved>.
                      >
                      > Any other rose or rose-like charge used in a manner consistent with
                      > the Rules for Submissions <http://heraldry.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/
                      > rfs.html> is available to anyone.
                      >
                      >
                      > In any event, what you can *wear* is a completely separate issue from
                      > what you can use in armory (heraldic devices and badges). Even if
                      > all roses were reserved as charges, that wouldn't mean you couldn't
                      > pin a rose to your hat or embroider roses on your coif. There are no
                      > Society-wide rules preventing you from wearing anything you want that
                      > isn't specifically reserved *as regalia* <http://heraldry.sca.org/
                      > loar/1999/01/cvr.html>. Wreaths of roses fit this criterion, as they
                      > are reserved to companions of the Order of the Rose <http://
                      > heraldry.sca.org/loar/1998/10/cvr.html>. Regular old roses do not.
                      > Nor do any of the roses that are reserved or restricted only as
                      > heraldic charges.
                      >
                      > Your kingdom may have sumptuary laws that restrict the wearing of
                      > some particular arrangement of roses (like a chaplet, for instance).
                      > If you'll tell us which kingdom that is, we'll try to help you find
                      > out. (It's always a good idea to specify your kingdom when you send
                      > any question to the list, by the way. The answer will depend on
                      > where you are more often than you might think.)
                      >
                      > And the next time somebody tells you something is "not allowed", tell
                      > them you're eager to learn all the rules, and you'd appreciate it if
                      > they could specify the source of the one they're citing so you can
                      > read it for yourself and make sure you've got it straight. If they
                      > can't give you an answer, take what they're saying with a grain of
                      > salt. There's a lot of misinformation out there (and not only where
                      > heraldry is concerned).
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Coblaith Muimnech
                      > Barony of Bryn Gwlad
                      > Kingdom of Ansteorra
                      > <mailto:Coblaith@...>
                      > <http://coblaith.net>
                      >
                    • Sara L Uckelman
                      ... I m not aware of sexfoils being used to represent roses. In general, roses are more often associated with cinquefoils. The only rose-related charge which
                      Message 10 of 11 , May 31, 2009
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                        Quoth "intuitiveartisan":
                        > I would like to use a sexfoil in my heraldry, but they sometimes represent ro
                        > ses, and I was told not to wear roses because they are the symbol for members
                        > of the Order of the Rose.

                        I'm not aware of sexfoils being used to represent roses. In general,
                        roses are more often associated with cinquefoils.

                        The only rose-related charge which is restricted to members of the
                        Order of the Rose is the wreath of roses. The use of a plain, single
                        unadorned rose is not restricted.

                        -Aryanhwy



                        --
                        vita sine literis mors est
                        http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/
                      • Trish Mickelsen
                        Ya, ask Lots wife about salt.  LOL  Sorry, I just had to say that.  Hugs & Kisses, Trish ________________________________ From: Giertrud Gyldenstierne
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jun 1, 2009
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                          Ya, ask Lots wife about salt.  LOL  Sorry, I just had to say that.
                           Hugs & Kisses,
                          Trish




                          ________________________________
                          From: Giertrud Gyldenstierne <giertrud@...>
                          To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 10:47:05 AM
                          Subject: Re: Misinformation (was Re: [SCA Newcomers] Using Sexfoil in Heraldry





                          lol salt is even BIBLICAL!
                          YIS,

                          Giertrud Gyldenstierne

                          (g'yair-trood ghee-yule-den- stee-air- nuh)

                          God is my lyght and saluation, whom then shall I feare? God is the strength
                          of my life, of whom then shall I be afraide?

                          > and I later heard from a friend that she was actually told that *salt*
                          > wasn't period!
                          >
                          > jerusha
                          > -----
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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