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Re: [SCA Newcomers] the laena

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  • bronwynmgn@aol.com
    In a message dated 4/1/2009 2:18:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tealah06@yahoo.com writes:
    Message 1 of 14 , Apr 4, 2009
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      In a message dated 4/1/2009 2:18:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
      tealah06@... writes:

      <<What is it exactly, and where would it have been found? Is it period?>>

      I'd never heard that term, so I went to the site and looked for it.
      Interestingly enough, when I first joined the SCA, I was taught that that garment was
      Scottish, the female equivalent of the great kilt for men, under a completely
      different name that I can't remember right now. I've since learned that it's
      either very late period or possibly a completely invented garment, not really
      a historical one at all.

      <<I came across it in casual browsing of the Garb the World site as being
      Roman-Briton, but I can find very little mention of it elsewhere. I'm not sure
      how accurate Garb the World is exactly so I thought I'd ask. :) It sure does
      look like a convenient thing to wear.>>

      The site over all is astonishingly bad for historical accuracy. They have
      the exact same garments listed as Roman, 10,000 BC Briton, and Medieval, they
      sell nothing but ring belts (the same ones for every time period I looked at)
      when the archaeological record is brimming with proper belt buckles of a huge
      variety of forms depending on the era and culture, and their materials used are
      all polyester blends except for 100% cotton; they also use stretch velvet, a
      completely modern material.
      Does their stuff pass the SCA's "Attempt at clothing from before 1600" rule?
      Yes, it does. You could certainly wear this to SCA events. Is it historical
      accurate clothing? No, absolutely not.

      Are they convenient to wear? Yes, I had one in my early years in the SCA and
      wore it a lot. Bit of a pain to get arranged, but once it was on, it was
      comfortable. Oddly enough, however, I'd be skeptical of the ability of the ring
      belts they sell to hold tightly enough to keep it in place if you were moving
      around a lot, as ring belts, especially new stiff ones, have a tendency to
      slip.


      Brangwayna Morgan
      Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
      Lancaster, PA
      **************Hurry! April 15th is almost here. File your Federal taxes FREE
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    • christopher chastain
      Garb the world was setup to get new people into garb, they dont do historical accuracy just get folks on the field. Yours in Humble Service, Pomestnik Dmitrii
      Message 2 of 14 , Apr 4, 2009
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        Garb the world was setup to get new people into garb, they dont do historical accuracy just get folks on the field.





        Yours in Humble Service,
        Pomestnik Dmitrii Zarekoi Ivanov
        I must go down to the sea again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
        And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by.....














        To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
        From: bronwynmgn@...
        Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 10:45:01 -0400
        Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] the laena





        In a message dated 4/1/2009 2:18:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
        tealah06@... writes:

        <<What is it exactly, and where would it have been found? Is it period?>>

        I'd never heard that term, so I went to the site and looked for it.
        Interestingly enough, when I first joined the SCA, I was taught that that garment was
        Scottish, the female equivalent of the great kilt for men, under a completely
        different name that I can't remember right now. I've since learned that it's
        either very late period or possibly a completely invented garment, not really
        a historical one at all.

        <<I came across it in casual browsing of the Garb the World site as being
        Roman-Briton, but I can find very little mention of it elsewhere. I'm not sure
        how accurate Garb the World is exactly so I thought I'd ask. :) It sure does
        look like a convenient thing to wear.>>

        The site over all is astonishingly bad for historical accuracy. They have
        the exact same garments listed as Roman, 10,000 BC Briton, and Medieval, they
        sell nothing but ring belts (the same ones for every time period I looked at)
        when the archaeological record is brimming with proper belt buckles of a huge
        variety of forms depending on the era and culture, and their materials used are
        all polyester blends except for 100% cotton; they also use stretch velvet, a
        completely modern material.
        Does their stuff pass the SCA's "Attempt at clothing from before 1600" rule?
        Yes, it does. You could certainly wear this to SCA events. Is it historical
        accurate clothing? No, absolutely not.

        Are they convenient to wear? Yes, I had one in my early years in the SCA and
        wore it a lot. Bit of a pain to get arranged, but once it was on, it was
        comfortable. Oddly enough, however, I'd be skeptical of the ability of the ring
        belts they sell to hold tightly enough to keep it in place if you were moving
        around a lot, as ring belts, especially new stiff ones, have a tendency to
        slip.


        Brangwayna Morgan
        Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
        Lancaster, PA
        **************Hurry! April 15th is almost here. File your Federal taxes FREE
        with TaxACT.
        (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220239440x1201335902/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.taxact.com%2F08tax.asp%3Fsc%3D084102950001%26p%3D82)

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      • bronwynmgn@aol.com
        In a message dated 4/4/2009 11:04:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ckchastain@hotmail.com writes:
        Message 3 of 14 , Apr 4, 2009
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          In a message dated 4/4/2009 11:04:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
          ckchastain@... writes:

          <<Garb the world was setup to get new people into garb, they dont do
          historical accuracy just get folks on the field.>>

          I understand that we need merchants to fill that particular demand.

          However, I think that if they are not doing historically accurate clothing,
          then they should not be dividing the clothing into historically-based
          categories and thereby implying that those clothes are correct for that time period.
          Hence the original poster's question of "When and where is this garment from
          and is it accurate?". Or, they should put a statement somewhere very obvious
          that says "Our costumes are inspired by clothes of the time period mentioned,
          but are not intended to be historically accurate in detail" or something similar.


          Brangwayna Morgan
          Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
          Lancaster, PA
          **************Hurry! April 15th is almost here. File your Federal taxes FREE
          with TaxACT.
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        • christopher chastain
          I agree with you on that but to be fair should you trust everything you see or read on the internet? Send them a suggestion, Ive bought some stuff from them
          Message 4 of 14 , Apr 4, 2009
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            I agree with you on that but to be fair should you trust everything you see or read on the internet? Send them a suggestion, Ive bought some stuff from them for my oldest son. They are pretty reasonable people.





            Yours in Humble Service,
            Pomestnik Dmitrii Zarekoi Ivanov
            I must go down to the sea again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
            And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by.....














            To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
            From: bronwynmgn@...
            Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 11:28:32 -0400
            Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] the laena





            In a message dated 4/4/2009 11:04:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
            ckchastain@... writes:

            <<Garb the world was setup to get new people into garb, they dont do
            historical accuracy just get folks on the field.>>

            I understand that we need merchants to fill that particular demand.

            However, I think that if they are not doing historically accurate clothing,
            then they should not be dividing the clothing into historically-based
            categories and thereby implying that those clothes are correct for that time period.
            Hence the original poster's question of "When and where is this garment from
            and is it accurate?". Or, they should put a statement somewhere very obvious
            that says "Our costumes are inspired by clothes of the time period mentioned,
            but are not intended to be historically accurate in detail" or something similar.


            Brangwayna Morgan
            Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
            Lancaster, PA
            **************Hurry! April 15th is almost here. File your Federal taxes FREE
            with TaxACT.
            (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220239440x1201335902/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.taxact.com%2F08tax.asp%3Fsc%3D084102950001%26p%3D82)

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          • Laurie Firth
            Whether this is helpful or not, I ve been meaning to look laena up in my Latin dictionary. A laena is a cloak. There you go. Rosamund (The Not-So-Helpful)
            Message 5 of 14 , Apr 4, 2009
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              Whether this is helpful or not, I've been meaning to look "laena" up in
              my Latin dictionary. A laena is a cloak. There you go.

              Rosamund (The Not-So-Helpful)
            • Labhaoise O'Beachain
              Hmmm, I d rather they sold, I bit closer to the real thing , what they end up doing is reinforcing(they are the experts, after all) all the worst
              Message 6 of 14 , Apr 4, 2009
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                Hmmm, I'd rather they sold, I bit closer to the "real thing", what they end up doing is reinforcing(they are the experts, after all) all the worst stereotypes....

                AND they get reccommended way to often, 'cause they sell "everything" and it's all really nothing!
                Labhaoise

                Wuld I fault you for wearing it? Nope

                Wouldn't even give you direction for improvements unless you asked!

                christopher chastain <ckchastain@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Garb the world was setup to get new people into garb, they dont do historical accuracy just get folks on the field.
              • Labhaoise O'Beachain
                Don t you love it, got to historical and they have columns for Elves and fairies ; pirates (holywood); and wizards and monks ..... Maybe they have a
                Message 7 of 14 , Apr 4, 2009
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                  Don't you love it, got to historical and they have columns for "Elves and fairies"; "pirates" (holywood); and "wizards and monks".....

                  Maybe they have a different history than I
                  Labhaoise

                  bronwynmgn@... wrote:
                  > I understand that we need merchants to fill that particular demand.
                  >
                  > However, I think that if they are not doing historically accurate clothing,
                  > then they should not be dividing the clothing into historically-based
                  > categories and thereby implying that those clothes are correct for that time period.
                  > Hence the original poster's question of "When and where is this garment from
                  > and is it accurate?". Or, they should put a statement somewhere very obvious
                  > that says "Our costumes are inspired by clothes of the time period mentioned,
                  > but are not intended to be historically accurate in detail" or something similar.
                • Lava Quod est Sordidium
                  Unto Pomestnik Dmitrii Zarekoi Ivanov, Where are you located? It seems from the way you ve been handling the Garb the World discussion that I would enjoy
                  Message 8 of 14 , Apr 5, 2009
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                    Unto Pomestnik Dmitrii Zarekoi Ivanov,
                    Where are you located? It seems from the way you've been handling the 'Garb the World' discussion that I would enjoy 'playing' with you at an event some day.

                    Aelfwyn
                  • christopher chastain
                    I am in trimaris. I also agree with their complaints about garb the world but I also remember what it s like to just be starting out in the sca and trying to
                    Message 9 of 14 , Apr 5, 2009
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                      I am in trimaris. I also agree with their complaints about garb the world but I also remember what it's like to just be starting out in the sca and trying to get garb together. Now once out on the field and going I expect folks to get a bit more historically accurate in their garb as im sure (knowing our laurels of garb and that how they love to share their knowledge to make us all better) would have learned after a short period of time what is historically more accurate. I only support them to the point of a new person getting in the door after that they need to get it together.





                      Yours in Humble Service,
                      Pomestnik Dmitrii Zarekoi Ivanov
                      I must go down to the sea again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
                      And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by.....














                      To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                      From: lavaquod@...
                      Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 07:54:56 -0700
                      Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Contact question






                      Unto Pomestnik Dmitrii Zarekoi Ivanov,
                      Where are you located? It seems from the way you've been handling the 'Garb the World' discussion that I would enjoy 'playing' with you at an event some day.

                      Aelfwyn









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                    • Lava Quod est Sordidium
                      ... I certainly didn t mean to imply that you did not have high standards for your SCA play. As a former professional perfectly period historic reinactor I
                      Message 10 of 14 , Apr 5, 2009
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                        > I am in trimaris. I also agree with their complaints about
                        > garb the world but I also remember what it's like to
                        > just be starting out in the sca and trying to get garb
                        > together. Now once out on the field and going I expect folks
                        > to get a bit more historically accurate in their garb as im
                        > sure (knowing our laurels of garb and that how they love to
                        > share their knowledge to make us all better) would have
                        > learned after a short period of time what is historically
                        > more accurate. I only support them to the point of a new
                        > person getting in the door after that they need to get it
                        > together.

                        I certainly didn't mean to imply that you did not have high standards for your SCA play. As a former professional perfectly period historic reinactor I appreciate holding ones self to a high standard. I also appreciate those of the Society who remember that what the SCA has always been trying to recreate is the Victorian ideal of the middle ages which included politeness and courtesy.

                        Thank you for your example,
                        Lady Aelfwyn Elswith of the Confraternity of St. Eve
                      • bronwynmgn@aol.com
                        In a message dated 4/4/2009 11:47:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lanneth@fastmail.fm writes:
                        Message 11 of 14 , Apr 5, 2009
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                          In a message dated 4/4/2009 11:47:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                          lanneth@... writes:

                          <<Whether this is helpful or not, I've been meaning to look "laena" up in
                          my Latin dictionary. A laena is a cloak. There you go.>>

                          Interesting. So the seller is using the word the Romans would have used for
                          a cloak to describe a garment which is not only not Roman, but isn't a cloak
                          either.


                          Brangwayna Morgan
                          Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                          Lancaster, PA
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