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Re: [SCA Newcomers] the laena

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  • Coblaith Muimnech
    ... I m not familiar with the term, but the picture on the Garb the World site is virtually identical to the
    Message 1 of 14 , Apr 1, 2009
      Tealah wrote (with "the laena" in the subject line of her post):
      > What is it exactly, and where would it have been found? Is it period?
      >
      >
      > I came across it in casual browsing of the Garb the World site. . .

      I'm not familiar with the term, but the picture on the Garb the World
      site <http://www.garbtheworld.com/items/g0061.shtml> is virtually
      identical to the images of arisaids (late-period Scottish Gaelic
      women's outer garments) on the Reconstructing History site
      <https://www.reconstructinghistory.com/scottish.php?
      s=&c=8&d=117&e=&f=&g=&a=131&w=2>, which is well-researched and
      respected. Arisaids, in turn, developed from brats, the cloaks worn by
      Gaelic men and women in both Ireland and Scotland earlier in period.
      You can learn about those in Finnacan Dub's "Early Gaelic Dress: An
      Introduction" <http://coblaith.net/EarlyGaelicDress/default.html>.


      Coblaith Muimnech
      Barony of Bryn Gwlad
      Kingdom of Ansteorra
      <mailto:Coblaith@...>
    • bronwynmgn@aol.com
      In a message dated 4/1/2009 2:18:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tealah06@yahoo.com writes:
      Message 2 of 14 , Apr 4, 2009
        In a message dated 4/1/2009 2:18:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
        tealah06@... writes:

        <<What is it exactly, and where would it have been found? Is it period?>>

        I'd never heard that term, so I went to the site and looked for it.
        Interestingly enough, when I first joined the SCA, I was taught that that garment was
        Scottish, the female equivalent of the great kilt for men, under a completely
        different name that I can't remember right now. I've since learned that it's
        either very late period or possibly a completely invented garment, not really
        a historical one at all.

        <<I came across it in casual browsing of the Garb the World site as being
        Roman-Briton, but I can find very little mention of it elsewhere. I'm not sure
        how accurate Garb the World is exactly so I thought I'd ask. :) It sure does
        look like a convenient thing to wear.>>

        The site over all is astonishingly bad for historical accuracy. They have
        the exact same garments listed as Roman, 10,000 BC Briton, and Medieval, they
        sell nothing but ring belts (the same ones for every time period I looked at)
        when the archaeological record is brimming with proper belt buckles of a huge
        variety of forms depending on the era and culture, and their materials used are
        all polyester blends except for 100% cotton; they also use stretch velvet, a
        completely modern material.
        Does their stuff pass the SCA's "Attempt at clothing from before 1600" rule?
        Yes, it does. You could certainly wear this to SCA events. Is it historical
        accurate clothing? No, absolutely not.

        Are they convenient to wear? Yes, I had one in my early years in the SCA and
        wore it a lot. Bit of a pain to get arranged, but once it was on, it was
        comfortable. Oddly enough, however, I'd be skeptical of the ability of the ring
        belts they sell to hold tightly enough to keep it in place if you were moving
        around a lot, as ring belts, especially new stiff ones, have a tendency to
        slip.


        Brangwayna Morgan
        Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
        Lancaster, PA
        **************Hurry! April 15th is almost here. File your Federal taxes FREE
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      • christopher chastain
        Garb the world was setup to get new people into garb, they dont do historical accuracy just get folks on the field. Yours in Humble Service, Pomestnik Dmitrii
        Message 3 of 14 , Apr 4, 2009
          Garb the world was setup to get new people into garb, they dont do historical accuracy just get folks on the field.





          Yours in Humble Service,
          Pomestnik Dmitrii Zarekoi Ivanov
          I must go down to the sea again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
          And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by.....














          To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
          From: bronwynmgn@...
          Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 10:45:01 -0400
          Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] the laena





          In a message dated 4/1/2009 2:18:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
          tealah06@... writes:

          <<What is it exactly, and where would it have been found? Is it period?>>

          I'd never heard that term, so I went to the site and looked for it.
          Interestingly enough, when I first joined the SCA, I was taught that that garment was
          Scottish, the female equivalent of the great kilt for men, under a completely
          different name that I can't remember right now. I've since learned that it's
          either very late period or possibly a completely invented garment, not really
          a historical one at all.

          <<I came across it in casual browsing of the Garb the World site as being
          Roman-Briton, but I can find very little mention of it elsewhere. I'm not sure
          how accurate Garb the World is exactly so I thought I'd ask. :) It sure does
          look like a convenient thing to wear.>>

          The site over all is astonishingly bad for historical accuracy. They have
          the exact same garments listed as Roman, 10,000 BC Briton, and Medieval, they
          sell nothing but ring belts (the same ones for every time period I looked at)
          when the archaeological record is brimming with proper belt buckles of a huge
          variety of forms depending on the era and culture, and their materials used are
          all polyester blends except for 100% cotton; they also use stretch velvet, a
          completely modern material.
          Does their stuff pass the SCA's "Attempt at clothing from before 1600" rule?
          Yes, it does. You could certainly wear this to SCA events. Is it historical
          accurate clothing? No, absolutely not.

          Are they convenient to wear? Yes, I had one in my early years in the SCA and
          wore it a lot. Bit of a pain to get arranged, but once it was on, it was
          comfortable. Oddly enough, however, I'd be skeptical of the ability of the ring
          belts they sell to hold tightly enough to keep it in place if you were moving
          around a lot, as ring belts, especially new stiff ones, have a tendency to
          slip.


          Brangwayna Morgan
          Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
          Lancaster, PA
          **************Hurry! April 15th is almost here. File your Federal taxes FREE
          with TaxACT.
          (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220239440x1201335902/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.taxact.com%2F08tax.asp%3Fsc%3D084102950001%26p%3D82)

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        • bronwynmgn@aol.com
          In a message dated 4/4/2009 11:04:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ckchastain@hotmail.com writes:
          Message 4 of 14 , Apr 4, 2009
            In a message dated 4/4/2009 11:04:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
            ckchastain@... writes:

            <<Garb the world was setup to get new people into garb, they dont do
            historical accuracy just get folks on the field.>>

            I understand that we need merchants to fill that particular demand.

            However, I think that if they are not doing historically accurate clothing,
            then they should not be dividing the clothing into historically-based
            categories and thereby implying that those clothes are correct for that time period.
            Hence the original poster's question of "When and where is this garment from
            and is it accurate?". Or, they should put a statement somewhere very obvious
            that says "Our costumes are inspired by clothes of the time period mentioned,
            but are not intended to be historically accurate in detail" or something similar.


            Brangwayna Morgan
            Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
            Lancaster, PA
            **************Hurry! April 15th is almost here. File your Federal taxes FREE
            with TaxACT.
            (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220239440x1201335902/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.taxact.com%2F08tax.asp%3Fsc%3D084102950001%26p%3D82)


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • christopher chastain
            I agree with you on that but to be fair should you trust everything you see or read on the internet? Send them a suggestion, Ive bought some stuff from them
            Message 5 of 14 , Apr 4, 2009
              I agree with you on that but to be fair should you trust everything you see or read on the internet? Send them a suggestion, Ive bought some stuff from them for my oldest son. They are pretty reasonable people.





              Yours in Humble Service,
              Pomestnik Dmitrii Zarekoi Ivanov
              I must go down to the sea again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
              And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by.....














              To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
              From: bronwynmgn@...
              Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 11:28:32 -0400
              Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] the laena





              In a message dated 4/4/2009 11:04:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
              ckchastain@... writes:

              <<Garb the world was setup to get new people into garb, they dont do
              historical accuracy just get folks on the field.>>

              I understand that we need merchants to fill that particular demand.

              However, I think that if they are not doing historically accurate clothing,
              then they should not be dividing the clothing into historically-based
              categories and thereby implying that those clothes are correct for that time period.
              Hence the original poster's question of "When and where is this garment from
              and is it accurate?". Or, they should put a statement somewhere very obvious
              that says "Our costumes are inspired by clothes of the time period mentioned,
              but are not intended to be historically accurate in detail" or something similar.


              Brangwayna Morgan
              Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
              Lancaster, PA
              **************Hurry! April 15th is almost here. File your Federal taxes FREE
              with TaxACT.
              (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220239440x1201335902/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.taxact.com%2F08tax.asp%3Fsc%3D084102950001%26p%3D82)

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            • Laurie Firth
              Whether this is helpful or not, I ve been meaning to look laena up in my Latin dictionary. A laena is a cloak. There you go. Rosamund (The Not-So-Helpful)
              Message 6 of 14 , Apr 4, 2009
                Whether this is helpful or not, I've been meaning to look "laena" up in
                my Latin dictionary. A laena is a cloak. There you go.

                Rosamund (The Not-So-Helpful)
              • Labhaoise O'Beachain
                Hmmm, I d rather they sold, I bit closer to the real thing , what they end up doing is reinforcing(they are the experts, after all) all the worst
                Message 7 of 14 , Apr 4, 2009
                  Hmmm, I'd rather they sold, I bit closer to the "real thing", what they end up doing is reinforcing(they are the experts, after all) all the worst stereotypes....

                  AND they get reccommended way to often, 'cause they sell "everything" and it's all really nothing!
                  Labhaoise

                  Wuld I fault you for wearing it? Nope

                  Wouldn't even give you direction for improvements unless you asked!

                  christopher chastain <ckchastain@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Garb the world was setup to get new people into garb, they dont do historical accuracy just get folks on the field.
                • Labhaoise O'Beachain
                  Don t you love it, got to historical and they have columns for Elves and fairies ; pirates (holywood); and wizards and monks ..... Maybe they have a
                  Message 8 of 14 , Apr 4, 2009
                    Don't you love it, got to historical and they have columns for "Elves and fairies"; "pirates" (holywood); and "wizards and monks".....

                    Maybe they have a different history than I
                    Labhaoise

                    bronwynmgn@... wrote:
                    > I understand that we need merchants to fill that particular demand.
                    >
                    > However, I think that if they are not doing historically accurate clothing,
                    > then they should not be dividing the clothing into historically-based
                    > categories and thereby implying that those clothes are correct for that time period.
                    > Hence the original poster's question of "When and where is this garment from
                    > and is it accurate?". Or, they should put a statement somewhere very obvious
                    > that says "Our costumes are inspired by clothes of the time period mentioned,
                    > but are not intended to be historically accurate in detail" or something similar.
                  • Lava Quod est Sordidium
                    Unto Pomestnik Dmitrii Zarekoi Ivanov, Where are you located? It seems from the way you ve been handling the Garb the World discussion that I would enjoy
                    Message 9 of 14 , Apr 5, 2009
                      Unto Pomestnik Dmitrii Zarekoi Ivanov,
                      Where are you located? It seems from the way you've been handling the 'Garb the World' discussion that I would enjoy 'playing' with you at an event some day.

                      Aelfwyn
                    • christopher chastain
                      I am in trimaris. I also agree with their complaints about garb the world but I also remember what it s like to just be starting out in the sca and trying to
                      Message 10 of 14 , Apr 5, 2009
                        I am in trimaris. I also agree with their complaints about garb the world but I also remember what it's like to just be starting out in the sca and trying to get garb together. Now once out on the field and going I expect folks to get a bit more historically accurate in their garb as im sure (knowing our laurels of garb and that how they love to share their knowledge to make us all better) would have learned after a short period of time what is historically more accurate. I only support them to the point of a new person getting in the door after that they need to get it together.





                        Yours in Humble Service,
                        Pomestnik Dmitrii Zarekoi Ivanov
                        I must go down to the sea again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
                        And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by.....














                        To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                        From: lavaquod@...
                        Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 07:54:56 -0700
                        Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Contact question






                        Unto Pomestnik Dmitrii Zarekoi Ivanov,
                        Where are you located? It seems from the way you've been handling the 'Garb the World' discussion that I would enjoy 'playing' with you at an event some day.

                        Aelfwyn









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                      • Lava Quod est Sordidium
                        ... I certainly didn t mean to imply that you did not have high standards for your SCA play. As a former professional perfectly period historic reinactor I
                        Message 11 of 14 , Apr 5, 2009
                          > I am in trimaris. I also agree with their complaints about
                          > garb the world but I also remember what it's like to
                          > just be starting out in the sca and trying to get garb
                          > together. Now once out on the field and going I expect folks
                          > to get a bit more historically accurate in their garb as im
                          > sure (knowing our laurels of garb and that how they love to
                          > share their knowledge to make us all better) would have
                          > learned after a short period of time what is historically
                          > more accurate. I only support them to the point of a new
                          > person getting in the door after that they need to get it
                          > together.

                          I certainly didn't mean to imply that you did not have high standards for your SCA play. As a former professional perfectly period historic reinactor I appreciate holding ones self to a high standard. I also appreciate those of the Society who remember that what the SCA has always been trying to recreate is the Victorian ideal of the middle ages which included politeness and courtesy.

                          Thank you for your example,
                          Lady Aelfwyn Elswith of the Confraternity of St. Eve
                        • bronwynmgn@aol.com
                          In a message dated 4/4/2009 11:47:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lanneth@fastmail.fm writes:
                          Message 12 of 14 , Apr 5, 2009
                            In a message dated 4/4/2009 11:47:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                            lanneth@... writes:

                            <<Whether this is helpful or not, I've been meaning to look "laena" up in
                            my Latin dictionary. A laena is a cloak. There you go.>>

                            Interesting. So the seller is using the word the Romans would have used for
                            a cloak to describe a garment which is not only not Roman, but isn't a cloak
                            either.


                            Brangwayna Morgan
                            Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                            Lancaster, PA
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