Re: [SCA Newcomers] forks (was: Feast Gear)
- Oh. Hang on. I said Pompeii. I meant to say Ancient Rome. Still not exactly late in the period. I read somewhere that forks were actually quite commonly used in the Italian City States because of Pasta. So you know, my source is my eyes. I saw the arifacts when the Ancient Rome exhibit was here in Houston.
So everyone knows ... yes I do know that there are places where forks are not period until a certain time. However, I distrust the blanket statement "_____ is out of period." It is better to say "____ is out of period for my persona." Even if you don't say "My persona is ____." It still shows that you have at least checked to see if something is period for your persona.
That said. Coblaith, you're here in Ansteorra. So there's a chance that you've actually seen my feast gear, since you're only like 2 or 3 hour drive from my Shire. (So you know, I was the one who made feast at the last Lysts at Castelton. Lady Maria from the Longship Co.) My Feast gear is about the FARTHEST from period you will find. Plastic dishes, gingham check napkins and tablecloth. The only thing that even LOOKS period are my lucite goblets. They look like glass. Do I care? No.
I think what we need to get through to people is ... Yes it's nice if you want to buy period feast gear. Bu make sure you are really sure what you want your persona to be before you decide on buying. The stuff can get expensive.
My persona went from 16th c Italian to 13th c Italian to late 14th/early 15th C Italian. I also have viking garb, english garb and some kind of non discript garb that could be french/english kind of thing. Just because you like the idea of a 16th C Russian garb, are you sure you can make it or afford to have it made? You may decide to choose a different persona simply for financial reasons. Mine went through changes because of monetary concerns and also because I wanted to actually MAKE my clothing myself. I have not made the attempt to get feast gear that is period to my persona because, no matter of the persona, I am a 21st century woman who likes to have it easy to eat. That only happens when I have my knife, fork and spoon, napkin, glass, salt and pepper, etc.
I guess my point is this ... Do what's comfortable and remember this is a HOBBY.
--- On Fri, 1/16/09, Coblaith Muimnech <Coblaith@...> wrote:
From: Coblaith Muimnech <Coblaith@...>
Subject: [SCA Newcomers] forks (was: Feast Gear)
Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 12:02 PM
Lady Maria wrote:
> . . .If one more person says forks are out of period I'm gonna
> explode. They are NOT out of period!!!!!
"Out of period" (like "period") is meaningful only if presented in
context. Forks are out of period for 10th century Ireland. They're
out of period for 12th century Spain. They're out of period for 14th
century Germany. They're out of period for 16th century England.
They're out of period virtually anywhere in Europe, any time in the
pre-17th century Middle Ages and Renaissance.
> Look at the artifacts that came out of Pompeii. They had forks.
If you're right, that makes some form of fork period for those whose
personae are from first-century Campania. I'd have to see your sources
to be convinced they were used to insert food directly into diners'
mouths, of course. (That's not how the first forks to make their way
into Europe from the east were used
<http://www.hospital ityguild. com/History/
Table_Forks_ of_the_Medieval& Renaissance. htm>.) And we'd have to look
at photos or dig reports to see how they were shaped and how big they
were. I'm betting it wasn't much like anything at your local discount
Billy and Charlie sell a couple of reproductions of 15th-century forks
<http://www.billyand charlie.com/ misc.html>. If your persona is part of
the small minority for whom forks are appropriate, it's likely the
forks (s)he would've used would have resembled those.
Barony of Bryn Gwlad
Kingdom of Ansteorra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- As far as I know nothing designates it as 'Yul'. This lady simply had her feast gear at the 'Yul' is what I heard her to say. For my T W O pence worth or were they ducats:(I promise you I know nothing of Irish money) I believe the Irish like the peoples in the Norse lands were slow to adopt the fork. The Irish seem despite their proximity to have been fairly cut off from the goings on in Europe and were slow in adopting anything European preferring to continue their Gaelic traditions in stead.