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Re: [SPAM][SCA Newcomers] Native Personas

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  • David Roland
    ... time period. ... Answering yes to the above question in NO LONGER required to have a persona in the SCA. You may have a persona from anywhere you
    Message 1 of 17 , Sep 27, 2008
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      > Then ask the question,
      > did the culture have enough interaction with Europeans in our
      time > period.
      > Most of the native people personas have some type of back story with
      > interaction of the Spanish. Good luck.
      > Otto

      Answering "yes" to the above question in NO LONGER required to have a
      persona in the SCA. You may have a persona from anywhere you wish
      and anytime pre-1600.

      Per SCA Corpora, December 5, 2006 Revision, Introduction (Pg 9 of
      the .pdf http://www.sca.org/docs/pdf/govdocs.pdf)

      "For Society members, most of the world, and all of the centuries
      prior to the 17th, can serve as a source for personal research."

      That said, it does go on to say, "However, the further you go from
      the core of Medieval and Renaissance Europe, the less
      the environment we offer will resemble what someone of your time and
      country would find natural or homelike. For example, you can be an
      Asian or African guest at a European court, but you cannot expect
      others to share your special interests - like any long-term visitor
      in a foreign land, you are the one who will have to adapt to the
      customs you find around you. Since members have free choice of what
      areas they will explore, it follows that Society branches cannot
      decide to specialize in a specific time and place, since that
      would make it hard for members there to pursue their own interests in
      other times and places."

      You can chooose any place in the world as well as anytime pre-1600
      irregardless if that place had contact with europe in the pre-1600
      period.

      Ian the Green
    • Ziddinaaitzumar@comcast.net
      Oooh, Boy! :) But one could create a Native American persona based on the (at this point, somewhat theoretical) contact between Canadian/Northern U.S.
      Message 2 of 17 , Sep 27, 2008
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        Oooh, Boy! :)' But one could create a Native American persona based on the (at this point, somewhat theoretical) contact between Canadian/Northern U.S. tribes and the Vikings - Leif Erikson, and so on!! Also, just to be reeaaaally far-fetched, one could create a Pacific Northwest Native American persona based on tribes in those areas and the (at this point, somewhat theoretical) contact between the Chinese and that area...

        Plus, I heard somewhere (Discovery Channel?? Nat'l Geographic??) about Sir Francis Drake putting in to port somewhere up in the Pacific Northwest??? Ziddina

        -------------- Original message --------------
        From: "Otto von Schwyz" <ottovonschwyz@...>
        I know of one personally that has a Cherokee persona and has successfully
        documented his name. I know of a few individuals that I have come across in
        the years that I have been playing; some with South American tribal personas
        but I haven't come across anyone form the US Northeastern tribes.

        Just like anyone that is interested in a time period and a culture; start
        doing some research in what you are interested in. Then ask the question,
        did the culture have enough interaction with Europeans in our time period.
        Most of the native people personas have some type of back story with
        interaction of the Spanish. Good luck.

        Otto

        -----Original Message-----
        From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of oldstudent1955
        Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 12:26 PM
        To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [SPAM][SCA Newcomers] Native Personas

        Good day gentle friends.
        Has anyone ever created a persona based on Native peoples? I have Iroquois
        and Lenani Lenape heritage and I'm curious as to how that would work with a
        SCA persona based around the early 1500s. I currently am a Scottish
        highlander of that same time, but I'm exploring a change.
        Elzbeth

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Labhaoise O'Beachain
        There are also Melungeon, we are from the same basic area that you find Eastern Nation Cherokee today. The mythology (one of them) is they are decended from a
        Message 3 of 17 , Sep 27, 2008
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          There are also Melungeon, we are from the same basic area that you
          find Eastern Nation Cherokee today. The mythology (one of them) is
          they are decended from a Portugeuse ship blown off course.
          Here is some:
          http://tb2kfulltopic.yuku.com/topic/412
          http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2002/06/53383
          http://www.melungeons.com/articles/jun2004.htm

          Sorry, I couldn't find some of the more "amusing" links.
          Labhaoise

          Ziddinaaitzumar@... wrote:
          >
          > There are gentles around with valid Native American personas.
          There's one (or used to be) in our group in Caerthe, but I don't
          remember his name. If I find out more, I'll pass it along. Feel
          free to research and create your own; there were many native tribes
          in contact with Europeans during the SCA period - you could even
          base your persona on the contact between the lost Viking tribes that
          found America before Columbus and Native Americans! Ziddina
        • Ron Osceola
          ... In Virginia we tend to think about european influence starting in the early 1600 s, but the Seminole people in South Florida experiences visitors in the
          Message 4 of 17 , Sep 27, 2008
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            --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "oldstudent1955" <bethgolds@...> wrote:
            >
            > Good day gentle friends.
            > Has anyone ever created a persona based on Native peoples? I have
            > Iroquois and Lenani Lenape heritage and I'm curious as to how that
            > would work with a SCA persona based around the early 1500s. I
            > currently am a Scottish highlander of that same time, but I'm exploring
            > a change.
            > Elzbeth
            >

            In Virginia we tend to think about european influence starting in the early 1600's, but the
            Seminole people in South Florida experiences visitors in the 1400 and 1500's. I tend to think
            that a strong case could be made that links the Iroquois people to a 14th century Knights
            Templar fortification that was found in New England several years ago.
          • Ziddinaaitzumar@comcast.net
            Fascinating! There s a mythology/serendipitous coincidence connecting my persona (North African Berber) with the Hawaiian Islands and the Polynesians - the
            Message 5 of 17 , Sep 28, 2008
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              Fascinating! There's a mythology/serendipitous coincidence connecting my persona (North African Berber) with the Hawaiian Islands and the Polynesians - the Hawaiian word "Kahina" (for pretty girl) is the exact same identical word used by the Tuareg Berbers as the name of one of their great queens who fought against the invading Muslim forces. Since the Berbers had contact with the Phoenicians through Carthage, maybe some Berber made it all the way to Hawaii???? Really far-fetched, but fun to speculate about... Ziddina

              -------------- Original message --------------
              From: "Labhaoise O'Beachain" <labhaoise_obeachain@...>
              There are also Melungeon, we are from the same basic area that you
              find Eastern Nation Cherokee today. The mythology (one of them) is
              they are decended from a Portugeuse ship blown off course.
              Here is some:
              http://tb2kfulltopic.yuku.com/topic/412
              http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2002/06/53383
              http://www.melungeons.com/articles/jun2004.htm

              Sorry, I couldn't find some of the more "amusing" links.
              Labhaoise

              Ziddinaaitzumar@... wrote:
              >
              > There are gentles around with valid Native American personas.
              There's one (or used to be) in our group in Caerthe, but I don't
              remember his name. If I find out more, I'll pass it along. Feel
              free to research and create your own; there were many native tribes
              in contact with Europeans during the SCA period - you could even
              base your persona on the contact between the lost Viking tribes that
              found America before Columbus and Native Americans! Ziddina




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • bronwynmgn@aol.com
              In a message dated 9/27/2008 10:53:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mystborne@yahoo.com writes:
              Message 6 of 17 , Sep 28, 2008
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                In a message dated 9/27/2008 10:53:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                mystborne@... writes:

                <<You can chooose any place in the world as well as anytime pre-1600
                irregardless if that place had contact with europe in the pre-1600
                period.>>

                I suppose you can interpret the wording of what you quoted that way.

                But I guess my question then is, what is the fun in researching and
                portraying a character that is so far out of the mainstream of the group that you are
                unlikely ever to find another person who shares your interest? In always being
                the outsider who is expected to behave as a guest?
                I guess I feel that way because I find that the most fun I have is when I can
                get down to some serious geeking with other people who share my specific
                interest. If there wasn't anyone else who really cared what a 12th century woman
                would have worn or eaten, I'd feel a bit out on a limb.
                This is why I wonder if people who would like to pursue personas that are
                outside of the mainstream of SCA time and place wouldn't be happier and be able
                to go further with their portrayal if they were part of a different
                re-enactment organization that provided more support and outlet for their area of
                interest.

                I admit freely to some selfishness as well. The 12th century often seems to
                be a part of the SCA period (and a pretty central part at that) that gets
                neglected a bit by the overall SCA, despite all sorts of interesting history and
                fashion changes and such. If you do 14th century, you have multiple persona
                specific events per year and several high quality merchants catering to you. In
                18 years in the SCA, I've seen about three specific 12th century European
                themed events, and the only merchant I know of that advertises 12th century
                clothing doesn't so a very good job of it, in my opinion, because they are
                following very outdated research for their patterns. But if we open the SCA to exotic
                stuff like 12th century Japanese and Chinese and ancient Rome and Greece,
                these take up time and resources that could be used for more 12th century
                European stuff. There are only so many weekends in the year.

                And before you ask why I don't join a more focused group, I've considered it.
                But my husband has no interest in 12th century, and I have no interest in
                14th century. If we each joined a focused group, we'd have to pursue our hobby
                seperately instead of together, or spend each other's events being bored. At
                least in the SCA we can participate together.


                Brangwayna Morgan
                Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                Lancaster, PA



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                challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Giertrud Gyldenstierne
                Try 16th c. Dano-Norwegian :) Past Viking times, That area of the world is rather overlooked. YIS, Giertrud Gyldenstierne [Non-text portions of this message
                Message 7 of 17 , Sep 28, 2008
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                  Try 16th c. Dano-Norwegian :) Past Viking times,
                  That area of the world is rather overlooked.

                  YIS,

                  Giertrud Gyldenstierne


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • bronwynmgn@aol.com
                  In a message dated 9/27/2008 9:35:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ronosceola@gmail.com writes:
                  Message 8 of 17 , Sep 28, 2008
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                    In a message dated 9/27/2008 9:35:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                    ronosceola@... writes:

                    <<I tend to think
                    that a strong case could be made that links the Iroquois people to a 14th
                    century Knights
                    Templar fortification that was found in New England several years ago.>>

                    I think I'd like to see the evidence that is interpreted as a Knight Templar
                    center in New England in the 1300's (considering that I have heard of no other
                    evidence suggesting that Europeans were active anywhere on the Eastern
                    seaboard at that time, although there almost certainly was an isolated Norse
                    expedition several hundred years before). I think that a "strong case" for this
                    suggesting Iroqouis with links to Europe would only be as strong as the
                    interpretation of whatever archaeological site they are dealing with. And that area has
                    been subject to some extraordinarily bad archaeological interpretation over
                    the years. Barry Fell has been particularly bad in this respect; if his name
                    is associated in any way with this interpretation I would take it with a very
                    large bucket of salt. Considering that the Knights Templar were firmly
                    suppressed in Europe in 1307, I assume that this is supposed to be the site they fled
                    to?


                    Brangwayna Morgan
                    Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                    Lancaster, PA



                    **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
                    challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
                    calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • David Roland
                    ... 1600 ... Actually that is not an interpretation. It is just about exactly what SCA inc. Corpora says. Period. But the points you made about being out of
                    Message 9 of 17 , Sep 29, 2008
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                      --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, bronwynmgn@... wrote:
                      >
                      > In a message dated 9/27/2008 10:53:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                      > mystborne@... writes:
                      >
                      > <<You can chooose any place in the world as well as anytime pre-
                      1600
                      > irregardless if that place had contact with europe in the pre-1600
                      > period.>>
                      >
                      > I suppose you can interpret the wording of what you quoted that way.
                      >

                      Actually that is not an interpretation. It is just about exactly
                      what SCA inc. Corpora says. Period.

                      But the points you made about being out of the mainstream and not
                      feeling like you fit in (no others of you around etc) also is made in
                      SCA inc. Corpora.

                      Why do it? Why not? Because it is an area of interest you have that
                      is why.

                      Ian
                    • Ziddinaaitzumar@comcast.net
                      Right on, Ian! By the way, my persona, North African Berber, is so poorly known in the SCA (in spite of the fact that they had extensive contact with the
                      Message 10 of 17 , Sep 30, 2008
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                        Right on, Ian! By the way, my persona, North African Berber, is so poorly known in the SCA (in spite of the fact that they had extensive contact with the Byzantine Empire, the Middle Eastern Muslims, actually ruled Spain for a hundred years, were pirates preying on the Italians in the Mediterranean, and other contacts...) that the SCA main Herald group passed my name without conflict because they had too little information on the subject to raise any serious objections!!

                        Ziddina Ait Zumar (which, after subsequent research, should actually be Ziddina wt Zumar...)

                        -------------- Original message --------------
                        From: "David Roland" <mystborne@...>
                        --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, bronwynmgn@... wrote:
                        >
                        > In a message dated 9/27/2008 10:53:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                        > mystborne@... writes:
                        >
                        > <<You can chooose any place in the world as well as anytime pre-
                        1600
                        > irregardless if that place had contact with europe in the pre-1600
                        > period.>>
                        >
                        > I suppose you can interpret the wording of what you quoted that way.
                        >

                        Actually that is not an interpretation. It is just about exactly
                        what SCA inc. Corpora says. Period.

                        But the points you made about being out of the mainstream and not
                        feeling like you fit in (no others of you around etc) also is made in
                        SCA inc. Corpora.

                        Why do it? Why not? Because it is an area of interest you have that
                        is why.

                        Ian




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