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Re: [SCA Newcomers] An outdated can of worms

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  • Riff Raff
    A true Viking would never be caught dead wearing a hat like that!!!    :P ... From: Ziddinaaitzumar@comcast.net Subject: Re:
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 13, 2008
      A true Viking would never be caught dead wearing a hat like that!!!    :P

      --- On Wed, 8/13/08, Ziddinaaitzumar@... <Ziddinaaitzumar@...> wrote:

      From: Ziddinaaitzumar@... <Ziddinaaitzumar@...>
      Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] An outdated can of worms
      To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, August 13, 2008, 9:49 PM

      As the others who replied stated... However, if you are interested in
      wearing garb that has "cavalier" elements, I've found that many of
      the garments that are so-called "cavalier" can actually be shown to
      have existed in "period" - that is, before 1600 AD.

      For example, the wide-brimmed and heavily decorated hats can be found in the
      painting "Ball at the Valois Court" (detail) executed in 1580. I
      found this painting (photo of) in the book "French Art - The Renaissance
      1430-1620" by Andre Chastel. [I used the comment from "Queen
      Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlocked" on page 201-202, "Women's hats
      (Figs 287 and 288) followed the masculine styles which Stubbes roundly condemned
      in his Anatomie of Abuses in 1583: ...Othersome be flat, and broad on the
      crowne, ..." to justify my creattion of a broad brimmed, flat-crowned hat
      that is strikingly similar to the hats worn by the male musicians in the
      above-mentioned painting. This style is typically considered
      "cavalier" by most people; however, it did exist "in

      As to the "falling collar" (which, in my opinion, would be much more
      comfortable to wear than the 'ruff'), I found the following - in the
      book "A Survey of Historic Costume" by Phyllis Tortora and Keith
      Eubank, on page 135, there is an [?woodcut or pencil?] illustration of a
      "Group of gentlemen, second half of the 16th century." (That's
      1550-1600 - I've always had to mentally translate the "th's
      century"....) The caption continues "These gentlemen of the court of
      Queen Elizabeth I of England... Both ruffs and a square collar are
      visible". {Italics and underline mine - look at the fellow in the second
      row, between the gent facing right and the fellow looking at the illustrator
      over his left shoulder in a dark cape.}

      Hope this helps. If you are dealing with a group of "Argh" (anal
      retentive garb hotheads) you may want to carry a small packet of research (with
      illustrations!) around with you... Ziddina

      -------------- Original message --------------
      From: "Danel Fisher" <danel56@...>
      Greetings good gentles of the list;

      I started a long introduction but was afraid my question would be lost
      in the mess so I'll ask simply:

      What is the end of period for the SCA? Is it 1600 or 1650? Is the
      cavalier styles of the english civil war era an SCA counter-culture or
      an acceptable garb and persona? Tall boots and broad brimmed hats are
      awesome, but are the legitimately 'authentic'?

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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