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Re: [SCA Newcomers] Re: names you can't register (was: stuck at square one)

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  • Sara L Uckelman
    ... This is not quite correct. The term holding name is a special label used only by the Laurel Sovereign of Arms. A person can be given a holding name if
    Message 1 of 30 , May 8, 2008
      Quoth "David Roland":
      > > --It makes it possible for you to register armory (i.e., a
      > heraldic
      > > device and/or up to three badges for yourself or a household or
      > other
      > > group).
      >
      > You can of course go ahead and register your amory (device or
      > badges) under a "holding name" as well, so you don't HAVE to
      > register a name to register a device.

      This is not quite correct. The term "holding name" is a special
      label used only by the Laurel Sovereign of Arms. A person can
      be given a holding name if the name they have submitted is not
      registerable but the armory they have submitted is. Since all
      registered armory must be associated with a name, the holding
      name prevents registerable armory from being returned just because
      the name was also returned. Only Laurel can create holding names,
      but changing a holding name is easy because it never costs any
      fees. (You just have to send the relevant paperwork to your
      kingdom submissions herald.)

      So, you do have to have a registered name in order to register a
      device. If Laurel creates a holding name, that *is* your registered
      name, until such time as you choose to change it.

      > That said it can complicate
      > things for later should you choose to register a name after you
      > register a device.

      As noted above, it is not possible to register a device without
      having submitted a name. Changing your name once it has been
      registered is straightforward; it handled exactly the same was as
      registering the name in the first place, you just check the "change"
      box on the submissions forms.

      -Aryanhwy



      --
      vita sine literis mors est
      http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/
    • Coblaith Mhuimhneach
      ... Someone should probably mention, too, that in some kingdoms your official, registered name will go on any awards you receive regardless of whether you ve
      Message 2 of 30 , May 8, 2008
        Ian wrote:
        > You can of course go ahead and register your amory (device or badges)
        > under a "holding name" as well, so you don't HAVE to register a name
        > to register a device.

        Aryanhwy answered:
        > If Laurel creates a holding name, that *is* your registered name,
        > until such time as you choose to change it.

        Someone should probably mention, too, that in some kingdoms your
        official, registered name will go on any awards you receive regardless
        of whether you've ever used it for anything else. (It may even be a
        Society policy that some branches in some kingdoms are just more
        conscientious about following; I'm not sure.) Since it's just a
        place-holder, Laurel doesn't sweat too much about what to use for a
        holding name. You could end up with the S.C.A. equivalent of "Jane
        Doe" on your scroll(s).


        Coblaith Mhuimhneach
        Barony of Bryn Gwlad
        Kingdom of Ansteorra
        <mailto:Coblaith@...>
      • Coblaith Mhuimhneach
        ... You know, I hear that noised about a lot. But my observation has been that (1) most people are willing to make an effort to switch over to a new name if
        Message 3 of 30 , May 8, 2008
          Ian wrote:
          > Just don't register you name in the first year of your SCA life
          > because "the Society never forgets" and people will continue to call
          > you by that name for a very long time.

          You know, I hear that noised about a lot. But my observation has been
          that (1) most people are willing to make an effort to switch over to a
          new name if they know you want them to and that (2) the better-known
          someone is by Name A, the longer it takes for them to switch to Name B.
          Someone brand-new to the S.C.A. who hasn't even had time to research a
          name yet can probably change her name in about a week. It took our
          Minister of A&S, who'd been using the same name for over 15 years and
          is one of the best-known artisans in our area, about six months to get
          everybody to start calling her by the new one. It took our Hospitaler,
          who'd been around for a couple of years and a very visible part of our
          barony, maybe two. I don't know how long it took the inimitable
          Tangwystyl
          <http://www.heatherrosejones.com/simplearticles/taleoftangwystyl.html>,
          but I've never heard anyone call her anything else, or seen her older
          name anywhere other than in her article on the subject.

          In any event, it's what people CALL you that lingers, not what you
          register. Changing what you've registered always and only takes
          exactly as long as the paperwork does. So even if the "it's so hard to
          change it" argument were valid, it would be an argument against
          choosing a name at all, not registering one. And since it takes just
          as long to get it into everybody's head that the name they've been
          using is your real-life name and now you want them to call you
          something else as it does to get it into their heads that the name
          they've been using was your "'til I decide" name and now you want them
          to call you something else, you don't gain anything by not choosing a
          good medieval name to use. (They're not going to call you "Hey, you!"
          indefinitely.)

          I wrote:
          > There are people who make "don't lock yourself into anything" a mantra
          > for newcomers. Well, let me add another. Don't close any doors in
          > your own face.

          Ian answered:
          > And the whole registering/not registering your name can do both at the
          > same time. If you register you name you close all sorts of doors,
          > which can be a very good thing, or a bad thing, so wait a while, try
          > it on and RESEARCH names for something you might like.

          I don't recommend you register a name you're not sure you want to keep,
          either, but only because it takes about a year for the paperwork to
          process and if you decide you want a different one half way through
          you've wasted everybody's time and effort. Registering a name doesn't
          make anything happen that you can't make un-happen just by releasing
          it. It doesn't lock you into anything.


          Coblaith Mhuimhneach
          Barony of Bryn Gwlad
          Kingdom of Ansteorra
          <mailto:Coblaith@...>
        • Briana Delaney
          This don t lock yourself in mentality drives me NUTS! I have been researching my name since BEFORE I was in the SCA. I had not done serious research
          Message 4 of 30 , May 8, 2008
            This "don't lock yourself in" mentality drives me NUTS! I have been
            researching my name since BEFORE I was in the SCA. I had not done serious
            research then, but asked questions to people who might know, and now have
            dug much deeper. I still need to register my name, but, I have all the
            research done now, and got only a small amount of help with it (I needed the
            Drachenwald herald for a bit!) I actually probably could have used what I
            had but I wanted to see primary documentation...I'm picky sometimes!

            Now, I have been in the SCA for ... 5 months. I think it's time.

            Begging to differ,

            (not telling my name; you can't have it)


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Kristine Elliott
            On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Coblaith Mhuimhneach ... I ve changed my name 2 times (well, actually just a bit more.) Roughly, I went from Triste (completely
            Message 5 of 30 , May 8, 2008
              On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Coblaith Mhuimhneach
              <Coblaith@...> wrote:
              > Ian wrote:
              >> Just don't register you name in the first year of your SCA life
              >> because "the Society never forgets" and people will continue to call
              >> you by that name for a very long time.
              >
              > You know, I hear that noised about a lot. But my observation has been
              > that (1) most people are willing to make an effort to switch over to a
              > new name if they know you want them to and that (2) the better-known
              > someone is by Name A, the longer it takes for them to switch to Name B.

              I've changed my name 2 times (well, actually just a bit more.)
              Roughly, I went from Triste (completely undocumentable) to Cateline to
              Scolastica. The first big change was from something unregisterable to
              something registerable. The second change was from something I knew I
              was mispronouncing and had grown to dislike to something documentable
              to my time and place AND that I had loved when I ran across it 25
              years before. (Then it didn't fit my persona.)

              I find the important thing with a name change is to announce it
              publicly, explain why and ask people to help by using your new name.
              Those that respect your wishes will. Those that refuse to even try –
              are they really worth retaining as friends? That's my attitude. I
              figure that calling someone by the name they want to be called is a
              real basic level of respect that is reasonable to give to any human
              being.

              Scolastica
              --
              http://www.geocities.com/souriete/

              If you can't get rid of them ugly old skeletons in the closet, at least teach
              'em how to dance funny. Billy C. Wirtz
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