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Re: [SCA Newcomers] Re: First aid in the SCA?

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  • Janet
    Ok, so I am not a Chiurgeon, but I spend a lot of time near the list field. Yes, hydration certainly is a huge issue, but something I noticed a lot last summer
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 3, 2008
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      Ok, so I am not a Chiurgeon, but I spend a lot of time near the list field. Yes, hydration certainly is a huge issue, but something I noticed a lot last summer was guys getting up in the morning and eatting breakfast (sometimes they don't even eat breakfast) then they go out and fight all day in the hot sun without eating a thing.

      I've seen several people literally dragged off the list because they didn't have the strength to stand on their own with those around them confused because "they've been drinking water and gatorade all day." It seems that people are forgetting that you're body needs FOOD too. I am noticing a lot more events offering orange wedges, pickles, trail mix and even granola bars and other things at the marshals table. I've even seen water bearers with platters of pickles and oranges out on the field during water breaks which definately seems to help.

      I guess, I just wanted to point out something I noticed last year. It seems we might need to think about amending the standard "Are you drinking water?" question to "Are you drinking water and when was the last time you ate something?" Just a thought.


      ----- Original Message ----
      From: David Roland <mystborne@...>
      To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2008 11:15:48 AM
      Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Re: First aid in the SCA?

      Keep an eye out at camping events for those morning dehydration people
      who drank too much the night before and think that they're just fine
      and can go fence or fight heavy. Between that and the tent getting hot
      we had to call an ambulance at a summer event for one guy. The local
      area here became very alert to hydrating before people armored up to
      stop that from happening again.

      Ian


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    • bronwynmgn@aol.com
      In a message dated 2/3/2008 9:39:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ladyellen2@yahoo.com writes:
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 3, 2008
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        In a message dated 2/3/2008 9:39:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
        ladyellen2@... writes:

        <<Thank you for the info for myself. I was an EMT-A/B/P and nurses aide for
        12 years. i let my liscence lapse due to not using it. I am trying to finish
        RN school. What is the minium qualification needed to start working as a
        chiuregon and how does one start? Thank you.>>

        Like Justin, I'm a Master Chirurgeon but I retired years ago due to burnout.
        At the time I wasn't doing much of anything in the SCA except for being a
        chirurgeon, and it had been that way for about 10 or 12 years...
        In any case, the minimum requirements used to be American Red Cross Standard
        First Aid and CPR or equivalent, and an SCA membership. As to how you get
        started, contact your Kingdom Chirurgeon to sign up as an apprentice, or,
        failing that, find the chirurgeons at an event where these is fighting and talk
        to them.


        Brangwayna Morgan
        Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
        Lancaster, PA



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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Chris
        We call the Oranges Pretzals Pickles etc. Fighter Food . I didnt realize there were events without it. Every event I have ever fought heavy at has had a
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 4, 2008
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          We call the Oranges Pretzals Pickles etc. "Fighter Food". I didnt
          realize there were events without it. Every event I have ever fought
          heavy at has had a selection.

          Egill Skorrason

          >orange wedges, pickles, trail mix and even granola bars and other
          things at the marshals table. I've even seen water bearers with
          platters of pickles and oranges out on the field during water breaks
          which definately seems to help.
          >
          > I guess, I just wanted to point out something I noticed last year. It
          seems we might need to think about amending the standard "Are you
          drinking water?" question to "Are you drinking water and when was the
          last time you ate something?" Just a thought.
        • P M
          Oh I am used to all of the above. I worked as a Medic at our local Six Flags Great America (Gurnee, IL). Lots of drunk/dehydrated/stupid people! We used to
          Message 4 of 18 , Feb 4, 2008
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            Oh I am used to all of the above. I worked as a Medic at our local Six Flags Great America (Gurnee, IL). Lots of drunk/dehydrated/stupid people! We used to have a 'genius of the week'. Kind of like the Darwin awards, but they didn't get themselves killed. Thank you for all of the help. BTW, I am in the Middle Kingdom, Ravenslake Shire. I have to get used to putting that in.

            Patti


            "Tu es responsable pour toujours de ce que tu as approvoise." Le Renard en "Le Petit Prince" Antoine de St. Exupery.

            You are responsible forever for that which you tame.


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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • David Roland
            I guess, I just wanted to point out something I noticed last year. It seems we might need to think about amending the standard Are you drinking water?
            Message 5 of 18 , Feb 4, 2008
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              "I guess, I just wanted to point out something I noticed last year. It
              seems we might need to think about amending the standard "Are you
              drinking water?" question to "Are you drinking water and when was the
              last time you ate something?" Just a thought."

              In the Middle Kingdom we do a pretty darn good job of this, I am proud
              to say. Every event that I have been too there is fighter food at or
              near the fighting lists. Being a fencer myself I can not tell you how
              many times I have been TOLD to go eat pretzels or pickles. Not asked
              if I wanted them, TOLD to have them. Usually its just "Ian, Drink."
              or "Ian, eat." Yes, I've also been politely directed to them as
              well. "Would you like some drink M'lord?" "Pretzels and Pickles
              M'lord?"

              The idea being that water is great, Gatoraid is great but you need to
              up your electrolyts and carbs too beyond what just water and Gatoraid
              can do for you. And frankly when you're fighting, either with rapier
              or rattan, you get stupid. I tell all my newcomers that as soon as
              that helmet goes on people get stupid and need to be directed to drink
              and eat for their own an other's safety. So help them out. If you
              are in armor and someone offers you drink of food, unless you slosh or
              just had some the answer is ALWAYS "Yes, thank you."

              And since I said to do it to others, I do it too. Not that I always
              want to.

              Ian
            • Justinos Tekton called Justin
              ... PFC: Purina Fighter Chow! -- ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::
              Message 6 of 18 , Feb 4, 2008
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                On Monday 04 February 2008 09:38:41 Chris wrote:
                > We call the Oranges Pretzals Pickles etc. "Fighter Food".

                PFC: Purina Fighter Chow!

                --
                ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                keys fesswise reversed sable.

                Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
              • Justinos Tekton called Justin
                ... With respect, I must dissent from this. Fighters and fencers are adults who have signed liability waivers. They are responsible for their own safety and
                Message 7 of 18 , Feb 4, 2008
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                  On Monday 04 February 2008 09:59:38 David Roland wrote:
                  > Being a fencer myself I can not tell you how
                  > many times I have been TOLD to go eat pretzels or pickles.  Not asked
                  > if I wanted them, TOLD to have them.

                  With respect, I must dissent from this. Fighters and fencers are adults who
                  have signed liability waivers. They are responsible for their own safety and
                  health, and we who are Chirurgeons and Water Bearers have no right to order
                  anyone to eat or drink anything.

                  In years past, the Chirurgeonate has had problems with some of its more
                  zealous members trying to _insist_ that someone needs first aid, and the Water
                  Bearers in some areas have had similar problems with _insisting_ that people
                  need to drink more water. We have worked hard, with lots of training and
                  mentoring, to soften the well-intentioned but inappropriate pushiness, and
                  in the process we have gradually earned more respect from the fighters we serve.

                  Offer, yes. Offer with vigor, if the person seems to be a bit "out of it".
                  But "no thank you" means "no thank you", and we owe the combatant the courtesy
                  and respect of accepting that they know what is best for their own body. If
                  you _really_ feel someone is far enough "around the bend" from heat exhaustion
                  or low blood sugar to be a danger to themselves or others, our course of action
                  should be to speak with a Marshal, not to take matters into our own hands, for
                  it is the Marshalls who are in charge of the list field, not us. Also, the
                  Marshal is a fighter as well, and so the same advice coming from a Marshal is
                  likely to be listened to more than coming from a non-fighter.

                  Ian, I understand that most of the people who "order" fighters to drink or
                  eat don't literally think they have authority to do so, and that there is some
                  humor involved -- that it's really meant to be more of a firm "nudge" than
                  literally an "order" in the legal or military sense. But the problem is that
                  some fighters don't see it that way, and thus we Chirurgeons and Water Bearers
                  get a reputation of being overbearing nannies rather than the service teams
                  we really need to be.

                  As one of my mentors taught me, "Adults have the right to make their own
                  choices, even if we think those choices are bad ones."

                  Kind regards,

                  Justin

                  --
                  ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                  Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                  Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                  keys fesswise reversed sable.

                  Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                  justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
                • Chris
                  umm we dont get stupid... we usually have other things on our minds like not getting hit upside the head before you hit the other guy Egill ... drink
                  Message 8 of 18 , Feb 5, 2008
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                    umm we dont get stupid... we usually have other things on our minds
                    like not getting hit upside the head before you hit the other guy

                    Egill
                    > can do for you. And frankly when you're fighting, either with rapier
                    > or rattan, you get stupid. I tell all my newcomers that as soon as
                    > that helmet goes on people get stupid and need to be directed to
                    drink
                    > and eat for their own an other's safety.
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