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Re: [SCA Newcomers] First aid in the SCA?

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  • Justinos Tekton called Justin
    ... Elizabeth? I didn t realize you were East Kingdom! Elizabeth Reed is a friend of mine, and was on my senior staff when I was Chirurgeon-In-Charge this past
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 3, 2008
      On Sunday 03 February 2008 01:29:39 Let's just leave it as "Sean" wrote:
      > My many Thanks to M'lady Sabina Maria d' Gibelet and M'lord Justin for
      > their information.  I have e-mailed Lady Elizabeth Reed Chirurgeon of
      > the Eastern Kingdom and have downloaded the Chirurgeon's handbook as
      > well as an application for apprenticeship.  I hope to be of service to
      > the Kingdom and the SCA in the future.  I am so glad that I came upon
      > this group as it has helped me greatly several times already.  God's
      > peace upon you all

      Elizabeth? I didn't realize you were East Kingdom! Elizabeth Reed is a friend
      of mine, and was on my senior staff when I was Chirurgeon-In-Charge this past
      year at Pennsic. As a matter of fact, she has stepped up to succeed me and
      is CIC for Pennsic 2008, so I'm sure she will welcome your addition to our
      ranks!

      Kind regards, and welcome.

      Justin

      --
      ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
      Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
      Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
      keys fesswise reversed sable.

      Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
      justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
    • Bhadra
      Patty, all the information you will need is in the SCA Chirurgeon documents on the SCA.org website, but To answer your questions I ve sent you the links
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 3, 2008
        Patty, all the information you will need is in the SCA Chirurgeon documents
        on the SCA.org website, but
        To answer your questions I've sent you the links http://www.sca
        org/officers/chirurgeon/welcome.html
        http://www.chirurgeon.org/

        Good luck
        Sabina Maria d' Gibelet
        Kingdom of Ansteorra
        Barony of Bjornsborg
        -------Original Message-------

        From: P M
        Date: 2/3/2008 8:39:09 AM
        To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Re: First aid in the SCA?

        Thank you for the info for myself. I was an EMT-A/B/P and nurses aide for
        12 years. i let my liscence lapse due to not using it. I am trying to
        finish RN school. What is the minium qualification needed to start working
        as a chiuregon and how does one start? Thank you.

        Patti - No SCA name yet, still working on it.


        "Tu es responsable pour toujours de ce que tu as approvoise." Le Renard en
        Le Petit Prince" Antoine de St. Exupery.

        You are responsible forever for that which you tame.


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      • Justinos Tekton called Justin
        ... I was an EMT-B from about 1999 through 2007, and just a few weeks ago let my EMT cert lapse deliberately because I wasn t able to use it due to my
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 3, 2008
          On Sunday 03 February 2008 09:39:06 P M wrote:
          >  I was an EMT-A/B/P and nurses aide for 12 years.  i let my liscence lapse due to not using it.  I am trying to finish RN school.  What is the minium qualification needed to start working as a chiuregon and how does one start?  Thank you.

          I was an EMT-B from about 1999 through 2007, and just a few weeks ago let my
          EMT cert lapse deliberately because I wasn't able to use it due to my modern-job
          work schedule (couldn't make the training dates required by my local volly squad).
          I'm still active as a Chirurgeon, though, under ASHI First Aid and CPR certs.

          The minimum requirement for Chirurgeons is adult CPR (infant and child highly
          recommended and definitely the statistical majority, but not an absolute
          requirement), plus American Red Cross or equivalent standard first aid or higher.

          There is a training program (generally four duty shifts) that is applicable to
          all new Chirurgeons regardless of certification level, because it is really
          more of an organizational and paperwork orientation than a medical skills
          training process. Since we are not ourselves a certifying authority for FA/CPR,
          we rely on the modern world cert to teach you that. Our training period teaches
          SCA-specific paperwork, safety issues around SCA combat fields, and so on.

          Kind regards,

          Justin

          --
          ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
          Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
          Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
          keys fesswise reversed sable.

          Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
          justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
        • David Roland
          As a former EMT and American Red Cross First Aid and CPR instructor, I am very happy that you are joining the ranks of the SCA. While we will appreciate any
          Message 4 of 18 , Feb 3, 2008
            As a former EMT and American Red Cross First Aid and CPR instructor, I
            am very happy that you are joining the ranks of the SCA. While we will
            appreciate any medical service you give...

            We all hope it will never be needed.

            Keep an eye out at camping events for those morning dehydration people
            who drank too much the night before and think that they're just fine
            and can go fence or fight heavy. Between that and the tent getting hot
            we had to call an ambulance at a summer event for one guy. The local
            area here became very alert to hydrating before people armored up to
            stop that from happening again.

            Ian


            --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Let's just leave it as \"Sean\""
            <darklord_war@...> wrote:
            >
            > My many Thanks to M'lady Sabina Maria d' Gibelet and M'lord Justin
            for
            > their information. I have e-mailed Lady Elizabeth Reed Chirurgeon of
            > the Eastern Kingdom and have downloaded the Chirurgeon's handbook as
            > well as an application for apprenticeship. I hope to be of service
            to
            > the Kingdom and the SCA in the future. I am so glad that I came upon
            > this group as it has helped me greatly several times already. God's
            > peace upon you all
            >
            > Your humble servant,
            >
            > Sean the Poor
            > (FDNY EMT-B Inst. Coordinator)
            >
          • Janet
            Ok, so I am not a Chiurgeon, but I spend a lot of time near the list field. Yes, hydration certainly is a huge issue, but something I noticed a lot last summer
            Message 5 of 18 , Feb 3, 2008
              Ok, so I am not a Chiurgeon, but I spend a lot of time near the list field. Yes, hydration certainly is a huge issue, but something I noticed a lot last summer was guys getting up in the morning and eatting breakfast (sometimes they don't even eat breakfast) then they go out and fight all day in the hot sun without eating a thing.

              I've seen several people literally dragged off the list because they didn't have the strength to stand on their own with those around them confused because "they've been drinking water and gatorade all day." It seems that people are forgetting that you're body needs FOOD too. I am noticing a lot more events offering orange wedges, pickles, trail mix and even granola bars and other things at the marshals table. I've even seen water bearers with platters of pickles and oranges out on the field during water breaks which definately seems to help.

              I guess, I just wanted to point out something I noticed last year. It seems we might need to think about amending the standard "Are you drinking water?" question to "Are you drinking water and when was the last time you ate something?" Just a thought.


              ----- Original Message ----
              From: David Roland <mystborne@...>
              To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2008 11:15:48 AM
              Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Re: First aid in the SCA?

              Keep an eye out at camping events for those morning dehydration people
              who drank too much the night before and think that they're just fine
              and can go fence or fight heavy. Between that and the tent getting hot
              we had to call an ambulance at a summer event for one guy. The local
              area here became very alert to hydrating before people armored up to
              stop that from happening again.

              Ian


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            • bronwynmgn@aol.com
              In a message dated 2/3/2008 9:39:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ladyellen2@yahoo.com writes:
              Message 6 of 18 , Feb 3, 2008
                In a message dated 2/3/2008 9:39:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                ladyellen2@... writes:

                <<Thank you for the info for myself. I was an EMT-A/B/P and nurses aide for
                12 years. i let my liscence lapse due to not using it. I am trying to finish
                RN school. What is the minium qualification needed to start working as a
                chiuregon and how does one start? Thank you.>>

                Like Justin, I'm a Master Chirurgeon but I retired years ago due to burnout.
                At the time I wasn't doing much of anything in the SCA except for being a
                chirurgeon, and it had been that way for about 10 or 12 years...
                In any case, the minimum requirements used to be American Red Cross Standard
                First Aid and CPR or equivalent, and an SCA membership. As to how you get
                started, contact your Kingdom Chirurgeon to sign up as an apprentice, or,
                failing that, find the chirurgeons at an event where these is fighting and talk
                to them.


                Brangwayna Morgan
                Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                Lancaster, PA



                **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
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              • Chris
                We call the Oranges Pretzals Pickles etc. Fighter Food . I didnt realize there were events without it. Every event I have ever fought heavy at has had a
                Message 7 of 18 , Feb 4, 2008
                  We call the Oranges Pretzals Pickles etc. "Fighter Food". I didnt
                  realize there were events without it. Every event I have ever fought
                  heavy at has had a selection.

                  Egill Skorrason

                  >orange wedges, pickles, trail mix and even granola bars and other
                  things at the marshals table. I've even seen water bearers with
                  platters of pickles and oranges out on the field during water breaks
                  which definately seems to help.
                  >
                  > I guess, I just wanted to point out something I noticed last year. It
                  seems we might need to think about amending the standard "Are you
                  drinking water?" question to "Are you drinking water and when was the
                  last time you ate something?" Just a thought.
                • P M
                  Oh I am used to all of the above. I worked as a Medic at our local Six Flags Great America (Gurnee, IL). Lots of drunk/dehydrated/stupid people! We used to
                  Message 8 of 18 , Feb 4, 2008
                    Oh I am used to all of the above. I worked as a Medic at our local Six Flags Great America (Gurnee, IL). Lots of drunk/dehydrated/stupid people! We used to have a 'genius of the week'. Kind of like the Darwin awards, but they didn't get themselves killed. Thank you for all of the help. BTW, I am in the Middle Kingdom, Ravenslake Shire. I have to get used to putting that in.

                    Patti


                    "Tu es responsable pour toujours de ce que tu as approvoise." Le Renard en "Le Petit Prince" Antoine de St. Exupery.

                    You are responsible forever for that which you tame.


                    ---------------------------------
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                  • David Roland
                    I guess, I just wanted to point out something I noticed last year. It seems we might need to think about amending the standard Are you drinking water?
                    Message 9 of 18 , Feb 4, 2008
                      "I guess, I just wanted to point out something I noticed last year. It
                      seems we might need to think about amending the standard "Are you
                      drinking water?" question to "Are you drinking water and when was the
                      last time you ate something?" Just a thought."

                      In the Middle Kingdom we do a pretty darn good job of this, I am proud
                      to say. Every event that I have been too there is fighter food at or
                      near the fighting lists. Being a fencer myself I can not tell you how
                      many times I have been TOLD to go eat pretzels or pickles. Not asked
                      if I wanted them, TOLD to have them. Usually its just "Ian, Drink."
                      or "Ian, eat." Yes, I've also been politely directed to them as
                      well. "Would you like some drink M'lord?" "Pretzels and Pickles
                      M'lord?"

                      The idea being that water is great, Gatoraid is great but you need to
                      up your electrolyts and carbs too beyond what just water and Gatoraid
                      can do for you. And frankly when you're fighting, either with rapier
                      or rattan, you get stupid. I tell all my newcomers that as soon as
                      that helmet goes on people get stupid and need to be directed to drink
                      and eat for their own an other's safety. So help them out. If you
                      are in armor and someone offers you drink of food, unless you slosh or
                      just had some the answer is ALWAYS "Yes, thank you."

                      And since I said to do it to others, I do it too. Not that I always
                      want to.

                      Ian
                    • Justinos Tekton called Justin
                      ... PFC: Purina Fighter Chow! -- ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::
                      Message 10 of 18 , Feb 4, 2008
                        On Monday 04 February 2008 09:38:41 Chris wrote:
                        > We call the Oranges Pretzals Pickles etc. "Fighter Food".

                        PFC: Purina Fighter Chow!

                        --
                        ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                        Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                        Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                        keys fesswise reversed sable.

                        Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                        justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
                      • Justinos Tekton called Justin
                        ... With respect, I must dissent from this. Fighters and fencers are adults who have signed liability waivers. They are responsible for their own safety and
                        Message 11 of 18 , Feb 4, 2008
                          On Monday 04 February 2008 09:59:38 David Roland wrote:
                          > Being a fencer myself I can not tell you how
                          > many times I have been TOLD to go eat pretzels or pickles.  Not asked
                          > if I wanted them, TOLD to have them.

                          With respect, I must dissent from this. Fighters and fencers are adults who
                          have signed liability waivers. They are responsible for their own safety and
                          health, and we who are Chirurgeons and Water Bearers have no right to order
                          anyone to eat or drink anything.

                          In years past, the Chirurgeonate has had problems with some of its more
                          zealous members trying to _insist_ that someone needs first aid, and the Water
                          Bearers in some areas have had similar problems with _insisting_ that people
                          need to drink more water. We have worked hard, with lots of training and
                          mentoring, to soften the well-intentioned but inappropriate pushiness, and
                          in the process we have gradually earned more respect from the fighters we serve.

                          Offer, yes. Offer with vigor, if the person seems to be a bit "out of it".
                          But "no thank you" means "no thank you", and we owe the combatant the courtesy
                          and respect of accepting that they know what is best for their own body. If
                          you _really_ feel someone is far enough "around the bend" from heat exhaustion
                          or low blood sugar to be a danger to themselves or others, our course of action
                          should be to speak with a Marshal, not to take matters into our own hands, for
                          it is the Marshalls who are in charge of the list field, not us. Also, the
                          Marshal is a fighter as well, and so the same advice coming from a Marshal is
                          likely to be listened to more than coming from a non-fighter.

                          Ian, I understand that most of the people who "order" fighters to drink or
                          eat don't literally think they have authority to do so, and that there is some
                          humor involved -- that it's really meant to be more of a firm "nudge" than
                          literally an "order" in the legal or military sense. But the problem is that
                          some fighters don't see it that way, and thus we Chirurgeons and Water Bearers
                          get a reputation of being overbearing nannies rather than the service teams
                          we really need to be.

                          As one of my mentors taught me, "Adults have the right to make their own
                          choices, even if we think those choices are bad ones."

                          Kind regards,

                          Justin

                          --
                          ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                          Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                          Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                          keys fesswise reversed sable.

                          Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                          justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
                        • Chris
                          umm we dont get stupid... we usually have other things on our minds like not getting hit upside the head before you hit the other guy Egill ... drink
                          Message 12 of 18 , Feb 5, 2008
                            umm we dont get stupid... we usually have other things on our minds
                            like not getting hit upside the head before you hit the other guy

                            Egill
                            > can do for you. And frankly when you're fighting, either with rapier
                            > or rattan, you get stupid. I tell all my newcomers that as soon as
                            > that helmet goes on people get stupid and need to be directed to
                            drink
                            > and eat for their own an other's safety.
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