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First aid in the SCA?

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  • Let's just leave it as "Sean"
    Greetings to all, I was wondering if there was any way that I could combine my modern training as an Emergency Medical Technician with the SCA arts and
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 1, 2008
      Greetings to all, I was wondering if there was any way that I could
      combine my modern training as an Emergency Medical Technician with the
      SCA arts and sciences? I'm never without my equipment when I go to
      events (then again I don't go anywhere without my equipment). I am not
      only an EMT I am an EMT instructor, and I would think that any where
      people are beating on one another with "sticks" someone may get hurt
      and need pre-hospital care. I would greatly appreciate any
      information. Thank you all in advance.
      Your humble servant,
      Sean the Poor
      Kingdom of the East
    • Justinos Tekton called Justin
      ... There are a LOT of EMTs and Paramedics, as well as other medical professionals, in the SCA. There are four ways you can use this skill: 1. You can do
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 2, 2008
        On Saturday 02 February 2008 00:42:38 Let's just leave it as "Sean" wrote:
        > Greetings to all, I was wondering if there was any way that I could
        > combine my modern training as an Emergency Medical Technician with the
        > SCA arts and sciences?  I'm never without my equipment when I go to
        > events (then again I don't go anywhere without my equipment).  I am not
        > only an EMT I am an EMT instructor, and I would think that any where
        > people are beating on one another with "sticks" someone may get hurt
        > and need pre-hospital care.  I would greatly appreciate any
        > information.  Thank you all in advance.

        There are a LOT of EMTs and Paramedics, as well as other medical professionals,
        in the SCA. There are four ways you can use this skill:

        1. You can do research on period medicine, from battlefield care to home remedies
        to herbalism to midwifery to apothecary to surgery. There are a few folks who
        portray medieval physicians as their persona (though of course we don't actually
        *do* period medicine...modern world law trumps SCA historical recreation). I
        have a friend who carries around a very period surgical kit with some
        reproductions of medieval instruments and some _actual_ articles that he's
        been able to purchase at antique dealers.

        2. You can become a Chirurgeon, which is a first aid guild in the SCA that has
        official organizational sanction. Our standard of care is advanced first aid
        rather than EMS, but as you know from your EMT skills one can "think" at the
        EMT level even when limited by equipment or protocols from "doing" at the EMT
        level. (Example: The first aid book says that if someone has a suspected
        spine injury, you immobilize with manual stabilization until help arrives.
        As an EMT, you simply know more advanced ways of doing this perfectly
        acceptable first aid skill.)

        3. You can always treat any consenting patient under your modern-world credentials
        as long as your credentials are valid in the jurisdiction where the SCA event
        happens. It is a common misconception that the SCA will only let Chirurgeons
        treat injuries at events -- that is absolutely not the case. The SCA Inc. does
        not sanction care by non-Chirurgeons, but that simply means you're not covered
        by SCA liability insurance, not that the treatment is forbidden by the SCA.
        Your treatment of a patient as a modern-world EMT is between you, the patient,
        and the modern-world authority of local jurisdiction.

        4. If you have modern-world credentials as a first aid and/or CPR instructor,
        you can offer these classes at SCA events under your modern-world certs. The
        SCA Inc. does not teach medical skills, but we allow FA/CPR skills to be taught
        at events under modern-world credentials.

        Welcome to the SCA!

        Kind regards,

        Justin
        Mentor Chirurgeon
        ASHI First Aid Instructor

        --
        ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
        Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
        Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
        keys fesswise reversed sable.

        Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
        justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
      • Bhadra
        Oh heck yeah! We call them Chirurgeons!! (say surgeon with a ch) And they are very highly prized officers! For all the information you want Go here!
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 2, 2008
          Oh heck yeah! We call them Chirurgeons!! (say surgeon with a ch)
          And they are very highly prized officers! For all the information you want
          Go here! Http://www.chirurgeon.org/ and here: http://www.sca
          org/officers/chirurgeon/welcome.html
          That should tell you what you need to know. Being you are an instructor you
          could do a class as an A&S "performance piece". Chirurgeons are officers
          and your kingdom must have a Kingdom Chirurgeon, http://www.eastkingdom
          org/chirurgeon/ Lady Elizabeth Reed, chirugeon@..., to be
          precise and your local group must have one, you need to talk to them both!
          Bet they snatch you up in a heartbeat!

          Happy to be of service,


          Sabina Maria d' Gibelet
          Kingdom of Ansteorra
          -------Original Message-------

          From: Let's just leave it as \"Sean\
          Date: 2/2/2008 7:29:52 AM
          To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [SCA Newcomers] First aid in the SCA?

          Greetings to all, I was wondering if there was any way that I could
          combine my modern training as an Emergency Medical Technician with the
          SCA arts and sciences? I'm never without my equipment when I go to
          events (then again I don't go anywhere without my equipment). I am not
          only an EMT I am an EMT instructor, and I would think that any where
          people are beating on one another with "sticks" someone may get hurt
          and need pre-hospital care. I would greatly appreciate any
          information. Thank you all in advance.
          Your humble servant,
          Sean the Poor
          Kingdom of the East





          Yahoo! Groups Links




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Let's just leave it as "Sean"
          My many Thanks to M lady Sabina Maria d Gibelet and M lord Justin for their information. I have e-mailed Lady Elizabeth Reed Chirurgeon of the Eastern
          Message 4 of 18 , Feb 2, 2008
            My many Thanks to M'lady Sabina Maria d' Gibelet and M'lord Justin for
            their information. I have e-mailed Lady Elizabeth Reed Chirurgeon of
            the Eastern Kingdom and have downloaded the Chirurgeon's handbook as
            well as an application for apprenticeship. I hope to be of service to
            the Kingdom and the SCA in the future. I am so glad that I came upon
            this group as it has helped me greatly several times already. God's
            peace upon you all

            Your humble servant,

            Sean the Poor
            (FDNY EMT-B Inst. Coordinator)
          • Bhadra
            Your welcome Sean, happy to be of service. Sabina ... From: Let s just leave it as Sean Date: 2/3/2008 12:29:43 AM To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com Subject:
            Message 5 of 18 , Feb 3, 2008
              Your welcome Sean, happy to be of service.

              Sabina

              -------Original Message-------

              From: Let's just leave it as \"Sean\
              Date: 2/3/2008 12:29:43 AM
              To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] First aid in the SCA?

              My many Thanks to M'lady Sabina Maria d' Gibelet and M'lord Justin for
              their information. I have e-mailed Lady Elizabeth Reed Chirurgeon of
              the Eastern Kingdom and have downloaded the Chirurgeon's handbook as
              well as an application for apprenticeship. I hope to be of service to
              the Kingdom and the SCA in the future. I am so glad that I came upon
              this group as it has helped me greatly several times already. God's
              peace upon you all

              Your humble servant,

              Sean the Poor
              (FDNY EMT-B Inst. Coordinator)




              Yahoo! Groups Links




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • P M
              Thank you for the info for myself. I was an EMT-A/B/P and nurses aide for 12 years. i let my liscence lapse due to not using it. I am trying to finish RN
              Message 6 of 18 , Feb 3, 2008
                Thank you for the info for myself. I was an EMT-A/B/P and nurses aide for 12 years. i let my liscence lapse due to not using it. I am trying to finish RN school. What is the minium qualification needed to start working as a chiuregon and how does one start? Thank you.

                Patti - No SCA name yet, still working on it.


                "Tu es responsable pour toujours de ce que tu as approvoise." Le Renard en "Le Petit Prince" Antoine de St. Exupery.

                You are responsible forever for that which you tame.


                ---------------------------------
                Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Justinos Tekton called Justin
                ... Elizabeth? I didn t realize you were East Kingdom! Elizabeth Reed is a friend of mine, and was on my senior staff when I was Chirurgeon-In-Charge this past
                Message 7 of 18 , Feb 3, 2008
                  On Sunday 03 February 2008 01:29:39 Let's just leave it as "Sean" wrote:
                  > My many Thanks to M'lady Sabina Maria d' Gibelet and M'lord Justin for
                  > their information.  I have e-mailed Lady Elizabeth Reed Chirurgeon of
                  > the Eastern Kingdom and have downloaded the Chirurgeon's handbook as
                  > well as an application for apprenticeship.  I hope to be of service to
                  > the Kingdom and the SCA in the future.  I am so glad that I came upon
                  > this group as it has helped me greatly several times already.  God's
                  > peace upon you all

                  Elizabeth? I didn't realize you were East Kingdom! Elizabeth Reed is a friend
                  of mine, and was on my senior staff when I was Chirurgeon-In-Charge this past
                  year at Pennsic. As a matter of fact, she has stepped up to succeed me and
                  is CIC for Pennsic 2008, so I'm sure she will welcome your addition to our
                  ranks!

                  Kind regards, and welcome.

                  Justin

                  --
                  ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                  Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                  Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                  keys fesswise reversed sable.

                  Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                  justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
                • Bhadra
                  Patty, all the information you will need is in the SCA Chirurgeon documents on the SCA.org website, but To answer your questions I ve sent you the links
                  Message 8 of 18 , Feb 3, 2008
                    Patty, all the information you will need is in the SCA Chirurgeon documents
                    on the SCA.org website, but
                    To answer your questions I've sent you the links http://www.sca
                    org/officers/chirurgeon/welcome.html
                    http://www.chirurgeon.org/

                    Good luck
                    Sabina Maria d' Gibelet
                    Kingdom of Ansteorra
                    Barony of Bjornsborg
                    -------Original Message-------

                    From: P M
                    Date: 2/3/2008 8:39:09 AM
                    To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Re: First aid in the SCA?

                    Thank you for the info for myself. I was an EMT-A/B/P and nurses aide for
                    12 years. i let my liscence lapse due to not using it. I am trying to
                    finish RN school. What is the minium qualification needed to start working
                    as a chiuregon and how does one start? Thank you.

                    Patti - No SCA name yet, still working on it.


                    "Tu es responsable pour toujours de ce que tu as approvoise." Le Renard en
                    Le Petit Prince" Antoine de St. Exupery.

                    You are responsible forever for that which you tame.


                    ---------------------------------
                    Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                    Yahoo! Groups Links




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Justinos Tekton called Justin
                    ... I was an EMT-B from about 1999 through 2007, and just a few weeks ago let my EMT cert lapse deliberately because I wasn t able to use it due to my
                    Message 9 of 18 , Feb 3, 2008
                      On Sunday 03 February 2008 09:39:06 P M wrote:
                      >  I was an EMT-A/B/P and nurses aide for 12 years.  i let my liscence lapse due to not using it.  I am trying to finish RN school.  What is the minium qualification needed to start working as a chiuregon and how does one start?  Thank you.

                      I was an EMT-B from about 1999 through 2007, and just a few weeks ago let my
                      EMT cert lapse deliberately because I wasn't able to use it due to my modern-job
                      work schedule (couldn't make the training dates required by my local volly squad).
                      I'm still active as a Chirurgeon, though, under ASHI First Aid and CPR certs.

                      The minimum requirement for Chirurgeons is adult CPR (infant and child highly
                      recommended and definitely the statistical majority, but not an absolute
                      requirement), plus American Red Cross or equivalent standard first aid or higher.

                      There is a training program (generally four duty shifts) that is applicable to
                      all new Chirurgeons regardless of certification level, because it is really
                      more of an organizational and paperwork orientation than a medical skills
                      training process. Since we are not ourselves a certifying authority for FA/CPR,
                      we rely on the modern world cert to teach you that. Our training period teaches
                      SCA-specific paperwork, safety issues around SCA combat fields, and so on.

                      Kind regards,

                      Justin

                      --
                      ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                      Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                      Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                      keys fesswise reversed sable.

                      Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                      justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
                    • David Roland
                      As a former EMT and American Red Cross First Aid and CPR instructor, I am very happy that you are joining the ranks of the SCA. While we will appreciate any
                      Message 10 of 18 , Feb 3, 2008
                        As a former EMT and American Red Cross First Aid and CPR instructor, I
                        am very happy that you are joining the ranks of the SCA. While we will
                        appreciate any medical service you give...

                        We all hope it will never be needed.

                        Keep an eye out at camping events for those morning dehydration people
                        who drank too much the night before and think that they're just fine
                        and can go fence or fight heavy. Between that and the tent getting hot
                        we had to call an ambulance at a summer event for one guy. The local
                        area here became very alert to hydrating before people armored up to
                        stop that from happening again.

                        Ian


                        --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Let's just leave it as \"Sean\""
                        <darklord_war@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > My many Thanks to M'lady Sabina Maria d' Gibelet and M'lord Justin
                        for
                        > their information. I have e-mailed Lady Elizabeth Reed Chirurgeon of
                        > the Eastern Kingdom and have downloaded the Chirurgeon's handbook as
                        > well as an application for apprenticeship. I hope to be of service
                        to
                        > the Kingdom and the SCA in the future. I am so glad that I came upon
                        > this group as it has helped me greatly several times already. God's
                        > peace upon you all
                        >
                        > Your humble servant,
                        >
                        > Sean the Poor
                        > (FDNY EMT-B Inst. Coordinator)
                        >
                      • Janet
                        Ok, so I am not a Chiurgeon, but I spend a lot of time near the list field. Yes, hydration certainly is a huge issue, but something I noticed a lot last summer
                        Message 11 of 18 , Feb 3, 2008
                          Ok, so I am not a Chiurgeon, but I spend a lot of time near the list field. Yes, hydration certainly is a huge issue, but something I noticed a lot last summer was guys getting up in the morning and eatting breakfast (sometimes they don't even eat breakfast) then they go out and fight all day in the hot sun without eating a thing.

                          I've seen several people literally dragged off the list because they didn't have the strength to stand on their own with those around them confused because "they've been drinking water and gatorade all day." It seems that people are forgetting that you're body needs FOOD too. I am noticing a lot more events offering orange wedges, pickles, trail mix and even granola bars and other things at the marshals table. I've even seen water bearers with platters of pickles and oranges out on the field during water breaks which definately seems to help.

                          I guess, I just wanted to point out something I noticed last year. It seems we might need to think about amending the standard "Are you drinking water?" question to "Are you drinking water and when was the last time you ate something?" Just a thought.


                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: David Roland <mystborne@...>
                          To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2008 11:15:48 AM
                          Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Re: First aid in the SCA?

                          Keep an eye out at camping events for those morning dehydration people
                          who drank too much the night before and think that they're just fine
                          and can go fence or fight heavy. Between that and the tent getting hot
                          we had to call an ambulance at a summer event for one guy. The local
                          area here became very alert to hydrating before people armored up to
                          stop that from happening again.

                          Ian


                          ____________________________________________________________________________________
                          Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
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                        • bronwynmgn@aol.com
                          In a message dated 2/3/2008 9:39:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ladyellen2@yahoo.com writes:
                          Message 12 of 18 , Feb 3, 2008
                            In a message dated 2/3/2008 9:39:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                            ladyellen2@... writes:

                            <<Thank you for the info for myself. I was an EMT-A/B/P and nurses aide for
                            12 years. i let my liscence lapse due to not using it. I am trying to finish
                            RN school. What is the minium qualification needed to start working as a
                            chiuregon and how does one start? Thank you.>>

                            Like Justin, I'm a Master Chirurgeon but I retired years ago due to burnout.
                            At the time I wasn't doing much of anything in the SCA except for being a
                            chirurgeon, and it had been that way for about 10 or 12 years...
                            In any case, the minimum requirements used to be American Red Cross Standard
                            First Aid and CPR or equivalent, and an SCA membership. As to how you get
                            started, contact your Kingdom Chirurgeon to sign up as an apprentice, or,
                            failing that, find the chirurgeons at an event where these is fighting and talk
                            to them.


                            Brangwayna Morgan
                            Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                            Lancaster, PA



                            **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
                            (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
                            48)


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Chris
                            We call the Oranges Pretzals Pickles etc. Fighter Food . I didnt realize there were events without it. Every event I have ever fought heavy at has had a
                            Message 13 of 18 , Feb 4, 2008
                              We call the Oranges Pretzals Pickles etc. "Fighter Food". I didnt
                              realize there were events without it. Every event I have ever fought
                              heavy at has had a selection.

                              Egill Skorrason

                              >orange wedges, pickles, trail mix and even granola bars and other
                              things at the marshals table. I've even seen water bearers with
                              platters of pickles and oranges out on the field during water breaks
                              which definately seems to help.
                              >
                              > I guess, I just wanted to point out something I noticed last year. It
                              seems we might need to think about amending the standard "Are you
                              drinking water?" question to "Are you drinking water and when was the
                              last time you ate something?" Just a thought.
                            • P M
                              Oh I am used to all of the above. I worked as a Medic at our local Six Flags Great America (Gurnee, IL). Lots of drunk/dehydrated/stupid people! We used to
                              Message 14 of 18 , Feb 4, 2008
                                Oh I am used to all of the above. I worked as a Medic at our local Six Flags Great America (Gurnee, IL). Lots of drunk/dehydrated/stupid people! We used to have a 'genius of the week'. Kind of like the Darwin awards, but they didn't get themselves killed. Thank you for all of the help. BTW, I am in the Middle Kingdom, Ravenslake Shire. I have to get used to putting that in.

                                Patti


                                "Tu es responsable pour toujours de ce que tu as approvoise." Le Renard en "Le Petit Prince" Antoine de St. Exupery.

                                You are responsible forever for that which you tame.


                                ---------------------------------
                                Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • David Roland
                                I guess, I just wanted to point out something I noticed last year. It seems we might need to think about amending the standard Are you drinking water?
                                Message 15 of 18 , Feb 4, 2008
                                  "I guess, I just wanted to point out something I noticed last year. It
                                  seems we might need to think about amending the standard "Are you
                                  drinking water?" question to "Are you drinking water and when was the
                                  last time you ate something?" Just a thought."

                                  In the Middle Kingdom we do a pretty darn good job of this, I am proud
                                  to say. Every event that I have been too there is fighter food at or
                                  near the fighting lists. Being a fencer myself I can not tell you how
                                  many times I have been TOLD to go eat pretzels or pickles. Not asked
                                  if I wanted them, TOLD to have them. Usually its just "Ian, Drink."
                                  or "Ian, eat." Yes, I've also been politely directed to them as
                                  well. "Would you like some drink M'lord?" "Pretzels and Pickles
                                  M'lord?"

                                  The idea being that water is great, Gatoraid is great but you need to
                                  up your electrolyts and carbs too beyond what just water and Gatoraid
                                  can do for you. And frankly when you're fighting, either with rapier
                                  or rattan, you get stupid. I tell all my newcomers that as soon as
                                  that helmet goes on people get stupid and need to be directed to drink
                                  and eat for their own an other's safety. So help them out. If you
                                  are in armor and someone offers you drink of food, unless you slosh or
                                  just had some the answer is ALWAYS "Yes, thank you."

                                  And since I said to do it to others, I do it too. Not that I always
                                  want to.

                                  Ian
                                • Justinos Tekton called Justin
                                  ... PFC: Purina Fighter Chow! -- ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Feb 4, 2008
                                    On Monday 04 February 2008 09:38:41 Chris wrote:
                                    > We call the Oranges Pretzals Pickles etc. "Fighter Food".

                                    PFC: Purina Fighter Chow!

                                    --
                                    ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                                    Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                                    Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                                    keys fesswise reversed sable.

                                    Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                                    justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
                                  • Justinos Tekton called Justin
                                    ... With respect, I must dissent from this. Fighters and fencers are adults who have signed liability waivers. They are responsible for their own safety and
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Feb 4, 2008
                                      On Monday 04 February 2008 09:59:38 David Roland wrote:
                                      > Being a fencer myself I can not tell you how
                                      > many times I have been TOLD to go eat pretzels or pickles.  Not asked
                                      > if I wanted them, TOLD to have them.

                                      With respect, I must dissent from this. Fighters and fencers are adults who
                                      have signed liability waivers. They are responsible for their own safety and
                                      health, and we who are Chirurgeons and Water Bearers have no right to order
                                      anyone to eat or drink anything.

                                      In years past, the Chirurgeonate has had problems with some of its more
                                      zealous members trying to _insist_ that someone needs first aid, and the Water
                                      Bearers in some areas have had similar problems with _insisting_ that people
                                      need to drink more water. We have worked hard, with lots of training and
                                      mentoring, to soften the well-intentioned but inappropriate pushiness, and
                                      in the process we have gradually earned more respect from the fighters we serve.

                                      Offer, yes. Offer with vigor, if the person seems to be a bit "out of it".
                                      But "no thank you" means "no thank you", and we owe the combatant the courtesy
                                      and respect of accepting that they know what is best for their own body. If
                                      you _really_ feel someone is far enough "around the bend" from heat exhaustion
                                      or low blood sugar to be a danger to themselves or others, our course of action
                                      should be to speak with a Marshal, not to take matters into our own hands, for
                                      it is the Marshalls who are in charge of the list field, not us. Also, the
                                      Marshal is a fighter as well, and so the same advice coming from a Marshal is
                                      likely to be listened to more than coming from a non-fighter.

                                      Ian, I understand that most of the people who "order" fighters to drink or
                                      eat don't literally think they have authority to do so, and that there is some
                                      humor involved -- that it's really meant to be more of a firm "nudge" than
                                      literally an "order" in the legal or military sense. But the problem is that
                                      some fighters don't see it that way, and thus we Chirurgeons and Water Bearers
                                      get a reputation of being overbearing nannies rather than the service teams
                                      we really need to be.

                                      As one of my mentors taught me, "Adults have the right to make their own
                                      choices, even if we think those choices are bad ones."

                                      Kind regards,

                                      Justin

                                      --
                                      ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                                      Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                                      Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                                      keys fesswise reversed sable.

                                      Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                                      justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
                                    • Chris
                                      umm we dont get stupid... we usually have other things on our minds like not getting hit upside the head before you hit the other guy Egill ... drink
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Feb 5, 2008
                                        umm we dont get stupid... we usually have other things on our minds
                                        like not getting hit upside the head before you hit the other guy

                                        Egill
                                        > can do for you. And frankly when you're fighting, either with rapier
                                        > or rattan, you get stupid. I tell all my newcomers that as soon as
                                        > that helmet goes on people get stupid and need to be directed to
                                        drink
                                        > and eat for their own an other's safety.
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