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Re: [SCA Newcomers] Arts & Sciences SCA Yahoo Groups for further info

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  • Sandra
    Correct me if I wrong but isn t close if not near to impossible to create something 100% authenitic? As far as art/sci is concerned isn t there also a limit on
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 1, 2008
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      Correct me if I wrong but isn't close if not near to impossible to
      create something 100% authenitic? As far as art/sci is concerned
      isn't there also a limit on how far out you can begin a project? I
      think without the help of others it is practicily impossible for
      oneself to do so. Well that is along the lines of say garb.. because
      you could do somthing as simple as soap. I think when i approach
      authencity I figure if someone is goign to look at my garb and pick
      on me because I used a sewing machine or didn't use period shears
      (like you can really tell??) I will just "smile and nod". I love the
      stars wars and LOTR costumes and did a lot of researchign online (of
      course I won't be strolling around an SCA events liek that...) and
      was amazed when I was given the rare glance of what the inside of the
      real movie garments looked like! Complete opposite of what the
      outside looked like... it's hard to describe but it's amazing how
      many corners hollywood cuts and their costumes are fabolous. I feel
      as long as someone knows how they should be doing things medieval
      style but for budget reason cannot that should be good. Please keep
      this email for reference in the event someday I become a laurel and
      forget these things! :)

      Hope everyone is having a great 2008!

      ~Sandra
      (Insipient) Shire of Trystelle Tre
      Kingdom of Trimaris
      --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Dianne & Greg Stucki
      <goofy4@...> wrote:
      >
      > At 10:04 PM 12/30/2007, you wrote:
      > >I agree. I admire authenticity but it is hard to do
      > >on a budget I am building my outfit little by little.
      > >Patrick
      >
      >
      > That's how we ALL do it, Patrick. Very few people start out even
      > CLOSE to authentic.
      >
      > I camped in nylon tents for years. I bartered for my pavilion, and
      > it's a small one. (10.5 diameter, but plenty big enough for one
      > person.) I still have a nylon chair, and it's only over the past
      two
      > years that I've moved on to all linen and wool garb. You shoulda
      seen
      > what I started with....
      >
      > It's a process. And as you progress, you discover that, without
      fail,
      > the way it was done to begin with is more practical and more
      > comfortable. My pavilion is infinitely more comfortable than the
      > nylon tent, and there's just no comparison between linen or wool
      > fabrics, and cotton or synthetics. It's easier to manipulate
      fabrics
      > with your hands than a sewing machine. (Doesn't stop me from using
      my
      > machine though!)
      >
      > Laurensa
      >
    • bronwynmgn@aol.com
      In a message dated 12/31/2007 3:39:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, goofy4@comcast.net writes:
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 1, 2008
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        In a message dated 12/31/2007 3:39:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
        goofy4@... writes:

        <<That's how we ALL do it, Patrick. Very few people start out even
        CLOSE to authentic.>>

        Exactly. I started out in a 4-foot high, 7-foot diameter nylon dome tent,
        wearing leather sandals or black fringed moccasin boots with polycotton wench
        garb. On the way to where I am now, I have moved through several variations
        on nylon cabin tents, and an old canvas Army tent before getting to a
        pavilion, Thermarest mattress on the ground covered with a few sheepskins to an
        old trundle bed frame and now to a take-down double size four poster with
        curtains and canopy slat bed. My garb has moved from what I described above to
        quite a few of my own invented patterns, most of which looked cool but bore no
        resemblance to anything period, to various attempts of varying quality of
        doing something that looked closer to right, to where I am now, using linen and
        wool and trying to at least get the silhouette right even if I'm not sure of
        the construction. And even at this level there are places to move on
        further; a friend of mine who is at a similar level to me (and who started out as a
        modern tribal belly dancer) recently got some good pictures of clothes taken
        from the tomb of a Spanish bishop that have given her a new way of doing
        neckline facings and seams which are making her construction a whole lot closer
        to period.

        Everybody does a little at a time, as they can afford it or have the time to
        learn it. It's taken me nearly 20 years to get to where I am now. Those of
        us who are a bit ahead on the road try to offer advice that cuts down on the
        learning curve we went through and try to help newcomers who are interested
        in authenticity get further along without having to reinvent the wheel, so
        maybe they can get to where we are now (if they want to) in less time.


        Brangwayna Morgan
        Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
        Lancaster, PA



        **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
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      • bronwynmgn@aol.com
        In a message dated 1/1/2008 9:00:38 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, sandra.rangel16@yahoo.com writes:
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 1, 2008
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          In a message dated 1/1/2008 9:00:38 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
          sandra.rangel16@... writes:

          <<Correct me if I wrong but isn't close if not near to impossible to
          create something 100% authenitic?>>

          In many cases, yes, because it's not always even possible, much less
          financially or otherwise plausible, for us to obtain the exact equivalent of the raw
          material that would have been used in period. But the fact that I cannot
          get wool from the same kind of sheep, raised in the same environment and on the
          same feed as Brangwayna would have done, shouldn't be taken as a reason not
          to try to do the best I can to replicate how she would have made the same
          garment in terms of cut, construction, and decoration. Getting those three
          factors right working with modern machine-processed store-bought wool is still
          going to get me a lot closer to the authentic product than throwing something
          together out of synthetics that looks cool.

          << As far as art/sci is concerned isn't there also a limit on how far out
          you can begin a project?>>

          I have no idea on this, as I have never used an art/sci competition as a
          reason to make something authentic. I neither enter nor judge art/sci, because
          I think that contests of this sort are a big detriment to the SCA, and for
          many an inspiration to fear trying to do something authentically. I think it's
          a lot harder to get up the nerve to make something that you know you are
          going to be judged on than it is to just make something to use. I have heard
          others say that they find art/sci a good way to get feedback and new ideas that
          help them learn to do things authentically, and I am pleased for them, but
          the few I've ever entered never worked that way for me. I either got
          pointless comments such as "I like it" or questions that would have been answered had
          the person bothered to read my documentation before writing the question on
          the comment sheet.

          << I think without the help of others it is practicily impossible for
          oneself to do so. Well that is along the lines of say garb.. >>

          And so it would have been in period, too. It would have been highly
          unlikely that a single woman in period would have raised her own sheep and flax,
          processed the raw materials as well as making all the tools to do so, made her
          own shears and needles, built her own loom, etc to make her clothes. That
          would have required extensive skills in animal husbandry, agriculture, metal
          work, carpentry, and a few other fields. She more likely would have purchased
          many of the tools, or relied on another craftsman to make them in return for
          some sort of barter, or even purchased woven cloth or even pre-made clothing.

          <<because you could do somthing as simple as soap.>>

          Is soap making really all that simple in the end? Making the lye, preparing
          the oil, all the tools to do so and the pot to cook it in, molds for it -
          again, I think it's likely that a soapmaker wouldn't have made all of these
          things themselves prior to actually making the soap.

          << I think when i approach
          authencity I figure if someone is goign to look at my garb and pick
          on me because I used a sewing machine or didn't use period shears
          (like you can really tell??) I will just "smile and nod".>>

          And so you should, if the person is just being rude and cutting you down.
          I've done the "smile and nod" routine myself more than once.


          Brangwayna Morgan
          Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
          Lancaster, PA



          **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
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        • David Roland
          As far as art/sci is concerned isn t there also a limit on how far out you can begin a project? I am going to assume that you mean for entry into a
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 2, 2008
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            "As far as art/sci is concerned isn't there also a limit on how far
            out you can begin a project?"

            I am going to assume that you mean for entry into a competition here
            as you can start a project and take as long as you like, or have, for
            your own purposes. The answer is a matter of interkingdom
            anthropology. Each Kingdom has its own rules, each A&S competition
            may as well. In the Middle Kingdom, for regional A&S (if you place at
            least second you are elligible to go on to Kingdom) competitions there
            are at the moment NO restrictions for elligability on how long ago you
            STARTED the project. However, there ARE restrictions for elligibility
            on how long ago you COMPLETED the A&S project. Check your
            local/kingdom rules. Contact your Minister of Arts and Sciences (MoAS)
            or check online to see what your local/kingdom rules are for this.

            "Correct me if I wrong but isn't close if not near to impossible to
            create something 100% authenitic?"

            In short, yes. 100% authenticity is utterly impossible. The air we
            breath is different today than the air they breathed. They can have
            and does affect chemical changes on the plants and animals, microbes
            etc. Also the microbes now may not be the microbes then as well.
            Okay so why do I start with chemistry and microbes? I make ink from
            period recipes.

            In a vast majority of recipes rain water is called for to be used
            becuase it is reliably the purest water available. Umm, not today due
            to the atmosphere an what we put into it in mass quantities. I use
            steam distilled water, which frankly is good but we can't say
            definitively if its functionally equivelant to rain water. Also some
            recipes for ink find that soaking the oak galls in rain water and
            allowing mold to grow on them creates a much blacker a beautiful ink.
            Umm, period mold (microbes) anyone?

            Oak galls themselves are a way for the oak tree to defend itself
            against pests and such. Remember how acid raid was killing of forests
            until we started to clean up our air? It affects the internal
            chemistry of the tree as well. The ingredient in oak galls that makes
            the ink work by the way is tannic acid, (not tannins as in tea but
            tannic acid), and the balance of tannic acid in an oak gall DOES
            change the recipe considerably and the quality of ink I assure you.
            Did they know that in period? Well not like we do today thats for
            sure. Yes, they knew some oak galls were better than others and other
            things would work to make ink but the point is this: It is utterly
            impossible for me to make 100% authenticly period ink because of these
            very basic issues.

            Can I make very very period ink? Sure. I'm gonna put in a wild guess
            of 95% authentic. But I'll never reach 100%.

            Just to show a bit further in period in europe they often wrote on
            vellum/parchment or animal skins which were soaked in running water.
            To temper the acid they sometimes used crushed eggshells, easy to get
            ahold of certainly today but from a period egg? (On a side note I do
            know there is a lord who raises period breeds of chickens but I don't
            know if its on period feeds and that would affect the makeup of the
            eggs).

            And all of that is just for ink.

            Period breeds of plants/animals for making your clothing? Sure wool
            is a period material but is it from a period breed of sheep that got
            rained on with the same rain and fed the period breed of food they
            were fed? That after all would be 100% authenticity.

            Does it sound ridiculous to go to this length? It does to me. But
            that is what 100% authenticity would require in my mind.

            I'm all for the 10 foot, 5 foot, 6 inches types of rules. If it looks
            good at XYZ distances you've done pretty darn good and should be
            congratulated. If you look like you're trying but just aren't making
            a good go of it, courtesy and chivalry (ideals upheld in our SCA)
            demands polite compliments and polite and useful offers of help NOT
            tearing someone down and telling them how much they suck.

            I have never torn into someone for using a cartridge pen or marker for
            doing calligraphy. I promise you it is at least as abhorent as using
            elastic as rayon in your garb. I have however offered to show someone
            how to use a dip pen or quill and teach classes on the basics of
            calligraphy. If they're not interested I complement on learning
            calligraphy and am happy they're trying. If its something they like
            doing they'll get to more period techiniques eventually. And besides
            that, and most importantly:

            Someone's lack of authentic tools and materials is not an attack on me
            so I don't need to respond to it as if it were. Their lack of
            authentic tools and materials in not an attack on the SCA or what we
            are trying to do either and so I don't need to respond to it as if it
            were. We are all teachers and/or learners in the SCA. As an
            educational group its about the learning, the path, not the product or
            destination. As a friend of mine put it once, "If you kill 'em they
            don't learn nuthin'" Going after someone for their lack of
            authenticity, especially anyone new, KILLS THEIR INTEREST.

            Yes, garb nazis and authenticity police abound and are generally found
            to be loathed everywhere. They can be anyone at any level. Here is
            what most seem to fail to understand: Everyone will find what they
            want to be authentic about and eventually other things they have/do
            will become more and more authentic the longer they are in. It just
            happens.

            I have told my newcomers and I recommend this to everyone, if someone
            starts in on your lack of authenticity on any given thing, politely
            thank them for their interest and move on. If they continue, politely
            express your surprise at their interest and ask what them how they are
            willing to help fix the problem they are seeing since it is so
            important to them. IE come to their house to learn, gift you with non-
            offensive item(s) etc. (Its they SCA, they may indeed be willing to
            help and just don't have the social skills that we'd like them to have
            and it may indeed be a boon for you.) If they refuse or don't offer
            anyway of helping, them politely say, "Oh, okay." and walk away.
            Failing that if they continue, simply and politely ask them to leave
            you alone. Failing that grab a white belt/baldric (Knight), Pelican
            or Laurel and have them intervene. They're being incredibly rude and
            need to have a talk with a peer about it.

            I have also told my newcomers to come to me at ANY event I am at that
            they are at and I will deal with the problem. In general the average
            scadian is a helpful person. Some see telling others how unauthentic
            they are to be helping them to become more authentic. If they're
            doing it to the level of being rude they're being jerks not helpful.
            And no it is NOT chivalrous to let such folks continue to be jerks to
            you or others. However, you don't get to be a jerk back. Be nice.

            Ian the Green, AoA, Calligrapher Scribe, Amature Ink Maker
            Chatelain - Shire of Grey Gargoyles
            Region of the Midlands
            Middle Kingdom
          • David Roland
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 2, 2008
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              << As far as art/sci is concerned isn't there also a limit on how
              far out you can begin a project?>>

              "I have no idea on this, as I have never used an art/sci competition
              as a reason to make something authentic. I neither enter nor judge
              art/sci, because I think that contests of this sort are a big
              detriment to the SCA, and for many an inspiration to fear trying to
              do something authentically."

              > Brangwayna Morgan
              > Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
              > Lancaster, PA

              I respectfully disagree with this sentiment though I am fully aware
              of that occuring for some people. This is one of those things that
              I think celebrates the diversity of people in the SCA. For some
              people it inspires fear of spitfire criticism let alone regular
              criticism.

              For myself, I LOVE A&S competions! And I know others who do as
              well. At the very least its an exhibition for everyone to come and
              see what is being done and to get some inspiration from it. I've
              seen woodworkers get inspiration from clothing makers, fiberarts
              folks get inspiration from calligraphy and many other such unlikely
              matches.

              On the personal level it gives me something to strive for and to aim
              for. Do I -need- that? No, but I sure do like to have it. So to
              me A&S competitions are a good thing. I stress this though and I
              stress it a lot, only enter if -you- want to enter them. If you
              don't then by all means don't. I do however encourage anyone who
              has any interests whatsoever in doing arts and sciences to attend
              A&S competitions and see what is there! I've never not learned
              something new nor walked away thinking there was nothing of interest.

              So, I suppose I should say that I disagree that A&S competitions are
              bad but agree that they can and do inspire fear in some folks. But
              for others it also inspires them. So do what you want when it comes
              to A&S competitions.

              On my first competition entry, (it went to kingdom level having
              placed second in regional), one of my judges tried to hunt me down
              at Pennsic 35 coming to my camp to give me some pointers and help.
              Alas I was not there to have seen him not knowing he was coming.
              He's a great person and I've exchanged a couple of very informative
              e-mails with him. So the judges aren't all bad. Have I heard
              horror stories? Yes, both from the judges who told of contestants
              who were just mean to them and from contestants who had mean
              judges. As in most such instances, I blame the individual who was
              mean not the activity they were participating in.

              Ian the Green, AoA
            • bronwynmgn@aol.com
              In a message dated 1/2/2008 1:36:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mystborne@yahoo.com writes:
              Message 6 of 17 , Jan 2, 2008
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                In a message dated 1/2/2008 1:36:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                mystborne@... writes:

                <<So, I suppose I should say that I disagree that A&S competitions are
                bad but agree that they can and do inspire fear in some folks. But
                for others it also inspires them. So do what you want when it comes
                to A&S competitions.>>

                Ian, I agree that folks should check out A&S competitions if they are so
                inclined. My reason for noting that I don't like or participate in them is
                partly just to express what may be a minority view, but mostly because there are
                some myths that many people believe about competitions.

                The first myth is that the only reason to try to do something authentically
                is to win in competitions. Since I never enter them, I must have another
                reason. My reason is that it is a fun challenge to learn how to do something
                more authentically, and that I often find out that a more authentic
                method/result is as easy or easier, as effective or more effective, etc, than the modern
                version.

                The second myth is that one must participate in competitions to win arts
                awards at a kingdom or Society level. I am both a Companion of the Order of the
                Manche, the East Kingdom arts award, and a member of the Order of the
                Laurel, the Society level award, despite not participating in competitions. (I was
                also never an apprentice.) So many newcomers get told they must enter
                competitions if they want recognition in the arts; I'm a living example that it
                doesn't have to be that way.

                My reason for disliking arts competitions in the SCA context specifically is
                firstly that I think there is too much emphasis on competition throughout
                everyday society, and that no one seems to be able to get an sense of
                achievement about having accomplished something unless they can win an award for it.
                I'd like to think of the SCA as a place where you can get a sense of
                achievement because you've learned to do something new that not many people know.

                The second, even more closely SCA-oriented, is that these competitions are
                actually one of the LEAST authentic things you can do at an event. People in
                period didn't take their wares to modern county-fair style contests to be
                judged, nor did craftmasters spend the majority of their time judging the works
                of random other people. Yet the focus of activity at events of people who
                do arts competitions seems to be primarily in either entering the competition
                and spending time thinking about it, or sitting with their work, or in
                judging other people's work, while not actually doing anything during the event
                that their persona would have done in period. I like to go to events to do
                things that Brangwayna would have done, so I take my projects and work on them
                (and teach people about what I'm doing and how to do it), play period games,
                dance, shoot archery, etc, none of which I would be able to do if I spent all
                day in an arts competition.

                Brangwayna Morgan
                Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                Lancaster, PA




                **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
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              • Ruth
                I have two A&S/period related questions on two different topics, Calligraphy and Sewing. First; my boyfriend just made me a gorgeous wooden box to hold the
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 3, 2008
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                  I have two A&S/period related questions on two different topics,
                  Calligraphy and Sewing.

                  First; my boyfriend just made me a gorgeous wooden box to hold the
                  cacophony of calligraphy supplies I have (from felt pens, to dip pens,
                  paper, gold pain, gold leaf.. you name it I probably have it). Highly
                  encouraging me to continue exploring period calligraphy (most of my
                  time has been spent copying Celtic knot work from the book of Kells
                  and other sources).

                  I think period ink is a bit too far for me to jump into directly,
                  however I'm sure that my dip pens are extremely modern versions of
                  such. I would be really interested in period types of pens. Are these
                  things you make yourself? Is there somewhere to buy them? Or since we
                  use ballpoint pens now, are the dip pens still a somewhat accurate
                  rendition of what was used.

                  Second; I have found it nearly impossible (in my local sewing shops)
                  to find anything but polyester thread. There is one, small sewing
                  shop, on the other side of town that sells 100% cotton thread, but
                  linen or wool thread is nowhere to be found. So far all of my (outer)
                  garb is linen, while under-garb is cotton, (with the exception of some
                  poorly advised 'wench outfits' I made first, which while cute and
                  functional, I will retire to loaner garb or pirate night at the local
                  bar).

                  Is there a website where one can order thread that is linen or wool.
                  Or even cotton... (the store I Found it, it was very spendy).

                  Thanks guys, I am really appreciating this authenticity discussion.

                  Rose Atherton
                  An Tir
                  Adiantum
                  (A newcomer who has never been harassed for using inauthentic garb)

                  PS. My personae tend from between Mid 14th Century to 16th Century
                  England, depending on which of my garb I feel like wearing. (Some day
                  I will either narrow it down, or create two distinct personas. Some day)
                • Coblaith Mhuimhneach
                  ... Well, the quill pen had long been standard by the 14th century and remained so through the 16th, so if you re looking for tools to suit your persona,
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jan 3, 2008
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                    Rose Atherton wrote:
                    > I would be really interested in period types of pens.

                    > My personae tend from between Mid 14th Century to 16th Century
                    > England. . .

                    Well, the quill pen had long been standard by the 14th century and
                    remained so through the 16th, so if you're looking for tools to suit
                    your persona, that's the obvious choice.

                    > Are these things you make yourself?

                    My understanding is that it takes a little time to learn how to cut a
                    proper pen, but once you've got the technique down it's a quick and
                    fairly easy process. There are instructions in most comprehensive
                    calligraphy books, as well as online <http://www.regia.org/quill2.htm>
                    <http://www.flick.com/~liralen/quills/quills.html>. Art supply stores
                    and educational outlets
                    <http://www.corpsrediscovery.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?
                    Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PP808&Category_Code=cnp-projkits> sometimes
                    offer quills for the purpose. I'm sure you could obtain feathers from
                    a poultry farm, too. (Just remember that turkeys are North American
                    birds; if you want to be really authentic, go for the geese.)

                    > Is there somewhere to buy them?

                    There are many sources for prepared quill pens. They're popular items
                    for sale at museums
                    <http://www.libertybellmuseum.com/MuseumShop/quillpengoose.htm> and
                    living history exhibits
                    <http://www.williamsburgmarketplace.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/
                    ProductView?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=12113&catgroupId=15921>
                    as well as at stationers' shops and art supply stores. Places that
                    carry ritual supplies for pagans will often stock a few, and I suspect
                    some of those that supply materials for Jewish ceremonies do, too.
                    Just be sure you get a proper quill pen, and not a reamed-out feather
                    with a brass nib fitted to it. And don't forget to keep a penknife on
                    hand, to sharpen the tip as needed.

                    > . . .are the dip pens still a somewhat accurate rendition of what was
                    > used.. . .

                    Metal nibs were rare, hand-crafted luxury items--more novelty items,
                    really--until the second quarter of the 19th century
                    <http://www.null-hypothesis.co.uk/article/110>
                    <http://www.artmuseums.harvard.edu/fogg/drawingglossary.html>. Using
                    one during the Renaissance was probably roughly analogous to using one
                    of those beautiful blown-glass pens they sell in Murano today.
                    Somebody, somewhere, has done it, but most folks, even those who write
                    a lot, haven't. And, of course, the few metal-nibbed pens that did
                    exist before 1600 weren't made of steel, as are modern nibs, so they
                    looked and functioned quite differently. If your goal is authenticity,
                    you should avoid modern calligraphy pens altogether.


                    Coblaith Mhuimhneach
                    Barony of Bryn Gwlad
                    Kingdom of Ansteorra
                    <mailto:Coblaith@...>
                  • Patrick Callahan
                    I KREYZE PADREYK HEREBY ATTEST THAT I MENTALLY STABLE AND REASONABLY SANE. I TESTIFY TO THIS ONLY TO SAY THE FOLLOWING: I ONCE SAW A HOBBIT IN A BUTTON SHOP AT
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jan 5, 2008
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                      I KREYZE PADREYK HEREBY ATTEST THAT I MENTALLY STABLE
                      AND REASONABLY SANE.

                      I TESTIFY TO THIS ONLY TO SAY THE FOLLOWING:

                      I ONCE SAW A HOBBIT IN A BUTTON SHOP AT AN SCA EVENT.
                      MAYBE I AM A LITTLE LAX ON MY AUTHENTICITY STANDARD
                      AND I CERTAINLY WAS NOT HOLDING THIS HOBBIT TO THE
                      GARB STANDARD I SET FOR MYSELF BUT IT SEEMED TO ME NOT
                      SO INAPPROPRIATE AS LONG NOT EVERY WAS DOING IT. IT
                      WAS AFTER A FASHION AN ATTEMPT AT MEDIEVAL CLOTHING.
                      ALTHOUGH THE RESEARCH WAS MORE DRAMATICAL AND
                      THEATRICAL IN NATURE THAN BASE ON HARD HISTORICAL
                      FACTS.


                      Kreyze Padreyk
                    • julian wilson
                      Patrick Callahan wrote: I KREYZE PADREYK HEREBY ATTEST Snipped I ONCE SAW A HOBBIT - GOOD STUFF SNIPPED FOR THE SAKE OF BREVITY -
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jan 5, 2008
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                        Patrick Callahan <naspiritwalker@...> wrote:
                        I KREYZE PADREYK HEREBY ATTEST Snipped
                        I ONCE SAW A HOBBIT - GOOD STUFF SNIPPED FOR THE SAKE OF BREVITY - ALTHOUGH THE RESEARCH WAS MORE DRAMATICAL AND
                        THEATRICAL IN NATURE THAN BASE ON HARD HISTORICAL
                        FACTS.


                        .



                        Comment
                        Ah, but that hobbit was only following what I undertsand to be one of the SCA's very earliest traditions - when many of the Founding population of what became The Kingdom Of The West chose their personas from the "fantasy" and "sword & sorcery" stories being written by many of the early members; - many of whom are still "playing", these decades later, though some are gone before us - the immortal Marion Zimmer Bradley [neƩ Marion Breen, may God be good to her, - for example, who proposed the SCA name in 1967 IIRC], leaving a wonderful heritage behind for us to enjoy - and to thank her for on the Shining Fields, where we shall al meet again, in the Service of The Light.

                        This humble veteran soldier believes that such diversity is one of the great strengths of the Society.

                        In Service to the Light, and to Our dream,
                        Lord Matthew Baker.






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                      • Ziddinaaitzumar@comcast.net
                        Hmmm. Very interesting - thanks for the information! I am tempted to beat myself against the cliffs of authenticity like an ocean wave crashing against the
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jan 6, 2008
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                          Hmmm. Very interesting - thanks for the information! I am tempted to beat myself against the cliffs of authenticity like an ocean wave crashing against the rocks - in plain english - to try my skills against certain standards. But I am the Bionic Re=enactor! Ziddina

                          -------------- Original message --------------
                          From: Michele Bouchard <angeisdescent@...>
                          Ziddina asked: Does anyone know which Kingdom is the most intensely
                          dedicated to authenticity?

                          This is a curious question, although I admit my inter-Kingdom anthropology is terribly rusty.

                          I can only speak for two kingdoms so far (Caid and Ansteorra), since that's all Ive lived in, but as I recall my home Kingdom of Caid was very supportive of those seeking to further their persona research, and make that commitment to try for a more authentic persona. I remember the Pas de Arms tournament becoming very popular amoungst the fighters, which was a documentable form of combat 'practice.' (Ill say here and now I am not a combatant of any kind, so my terminology might be sorely lacking.) I also saw a resurgence of period-looking headgear, period footwear, and even period ornamentation.....suddenly Wal-Mart belts and chunky necklaces that were 'passable' were absent in favor of beautifully hand-crafted bronze-cast plaque belts and gorgeous 'initials' chains draping across men's shoulders. It seemed to happen overnight, but I know it was only after a renewed interest in research and artistic expression (and lots and lots of hard work!) I have not really
                          gotten involved with the local A&S community here in Ansteorra just yet.....it's a massive Kingdom compared to what Im used to! lol

                          Namaste,

                          Sunayna





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