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cloak

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  • teresa
    What would or could a cloak be made out of fabric wise? Would that work for male or female? Thank you, Teresa Kingdom of Ansteorra Barony of Northkeep
    Message 1 of 19 , Dec 26, 2007
      What would or could a cloak be made out of fabric wise? Would that work
      for male or female?
      Thank you,
      Teresa
      Kingdom of Ansteorra
      Barony of Northkeep
    • wendy brown
      Greetings Teresa, I made mine out of fabric I got at a second hand place here in Georgia. Mine is heavy like apolstery fabric and then I lined it with satin. I
      Message 2 of 19 , Dec 26, 2007
        Greetings Teresa,
        I made mine out of fabric I got at a second hand place here in Georgia. Mine is heavy like apolstery fabric and then I lined it with satin. I love my cloak. It's warm and the wind doesn't get through it. It's velvet arms and the heavy body part. The arms are about a wine color and the body is wine with gold patterning. Maybe it's not period but I've been in the Kingdom less than a year and I love it it's alot of fun.

        Ælfwynn of Lynford
        Kingdom of Meridies
        Shire of Beau Fort



        ----- Original Message ----
        From: teresa <tresehardy@...>
        To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 8:51:23 AM
        Subject: [SCA Newcomers] cloak

        What would or could a cloak be made out of fabric wise? Would that work
        for male or female?
        Thank you,
        Teresa
        Kingdom of Ansteorra
        Barony of Northkeep





        ____________________________________________________________________________________
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      • Kyla
        Greetings Teresa, Your question is a little vague, perhaps you could clarify what you want a bit? What period? What climate? What region? While it s true that
        Message 3 of 19 , Dec 26, 2007
          Greetings Teresa,

          Your question is a little vague, perhaps you could clarify what you want a
          bit?
          What period? What climate? What region?

          While it's true that almost every culture and time period found cloaks of
          some sort in use, there were details of construction and decoration that
          made some specific to their area/time.
          In general, cloaks - as large pieces of material wrapped around you to
          protect you from the elements, were pretty much unisex, but there were some
          later period ornamental Elizabethan and Italian half capes that I believe
          were male only.

          If for a relatively warm climate, I recommend a single layer of heavy
          broadcloth or thin wool treated with some sort of waterproofing - oil cloth,
          beeswax, scotchguard, etc. (You could really get into some research here -
          do a completely authentic animal fat waterproofing. It will probably smell
          authentic, as well.)
          If for a cold climate, I recommend an outer layer of thick wool, preferably
          with some of the lanolin still on it, so it remains insulating even when
          wet, with an inner layer of heavy cotton, linen or silk, for comfort against
          your skin and clothing. The outer layer is also a good place for that
          rubber backed upholstery fabric - especially if your area is both cold and
          wet.

          The reason I recommend wool, aside from periodicity, is that it has some
          unique qualities; It is a terrific insulator, against heat as well as cold,
          is water resistant, can be made waterproof, and, if some of the natural
          lanolin is left on it, will retain its insulating abilities even when
          completely saturated. Another option to consider is felted, rather than
          woven wool. I admit that I generally cheat on this one, and felt woven wool
          by washing and drying it in machines - it means that whatever I make is
          machine wash and dryable!

          As for construction, I know that some cloaks were simply blankets wrapped
          around you, although even in that, there were specific ways for specific
          cultures. I do not know when and where cloaks began to be more form fitted,
          with shoulder seams and/or attached hoods. There are lots of options. If
          you will be doing heavy work, like setting up camp, I recommend a 3/4
          length. If you are wearing fancy, expensive renaissance dress, I recommend
          floor length, to protect your clothing, as well as yourself. ( Can also be
          good for making sure ALL of your clothing is inside the car before you close
          the door. Guess how I know?)

          I hope some of that helps you. I don't know how much more detailed to get,
          or if I've already given you too much information.
          If you have some more specifics of what you are looking for, I'm sure
          somebody on this list can come up with more details to help you out.

          Kyla/Tabitha Pennywarden
          Ravenslake, Midlands,
          Middle Kingdom

          -----Original Message-----
          From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com]On
          Behalf Of teresa
          Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 7:51 AM
          To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [SCA Newcomers] cloak


          What would or could a cloak be made out of fabric wise? Would that work
          for male or female?
          Thank you,
          Teresa
          Kingdom of Ansteorra
          Barony of Northkeep






          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • julian wilson
          teresa wrote What would or could a cloak be made out of fabric wise? Would that work for male or female? Thank you, Teresa Kingdom of
          Message 4 of 19 , Dec 26, 2007
            teresa <tresehardy@...> wrote
            What would or could a cloak be made out of fabric wise? Would that work
            for male or female?
            Thank you,
            Teresa
            Kingdom of Ansteorra
            Barony of Northkeep


            .



            REPLY
            Dear Teresa,
            when we started re-enacting near-on 7 years back now, I asked myself exactly the same question.
            And here are my thoughts on the matter, from then until now.
            we asked ourselves -
            why do you need a cloak?
            Is it for "looks" or is it to keep warm? Or is it to keep warm AND dry?
            How cold is it going to be where we'll be using the cloaks?
            How authentic are you trying to be? This will affect the fabric you choose.

            First of all, not having the time to make cloaks, my lady and I opted for 3/4-circle ready-made cloaks from Sofi's Stitches. These were made of 2 layers of heavy cotton twill, reversable and with attached hoods. They looked great, and came right down to our ankles. but there was a downside. They weren't "darted" over the shoulders, and kept sliding open unless pinned together just under our chins; - and being 3/4-circle cloaks, they didn't naturally close all the way [ no spare material for anjy overlap, you see; - , but hung off our shoulders open down the front. Looked good, but let in the cold at the front although keeping the wind off our sides and backs, and they needed to be pinned and held gathered closed when sitting in bardic circles round camp-fires. The cotton twill would resist drizzles for a while, but not heavy rain - which soaked-through on the shoulders.

            During a visit to Venice, we found a little shop which sold 3/4-circle cloaks for the Carnivale - made of a light-weight black silky material, lined with the same fabric in red, for only the equivalent of GB£20 each. Too good a bargain to miss as they looked great, and "swirled & floated" nicely. These were shorter than our cotton twill cloaks, - but were too good a bargain to miss, we, thought, and would be OK for summer evenings in the latitudes of the S of England. The first unexpected summer shower we got caught-out-in, they soaked-through in seconds, and turned clingy, clammy, and cold. So they have been relegated to use on warm summer nights with no rain forecast, or indoor events.

            Eventually, after tryiong-out other peoples' cloaks at events in the southern UK, we decided that the only fabric to use would be fine wool Melton cloth, despite the cost, and that the only design to use would be a full-circle-plus, ankle-length one, [ thus providing a front overlap], with darted and caped shoulders. These have proven light, warm when needed, and water-proof enough during quite prolonged rain to keep our garb underneath quite dry. Oh, one other thing, when making them, we cheated, - and inter-lined the shoulders with "GoreTex" just to make quite certain that shoulders and upper backs would remain dry in prolonged rain.

            Before we decided to you fine wool melton cloth, however, we did some experiments with blanket-style cloaks made from good-quality woollen blankets, proffed with "Fabsil" - and these worked quite well, with the blanket fibres wicking rain downwards before it had time to soak through. The only problem was that they did get heavy when wet, and dragged round our legs. The lighter but far-more-expensive wool melton doesn't do that, because it doesn't absorb so much water.

            That's as much help as I can give you from our practical experiences.
            I hope it helps you to make your choices with less experimentation than would otherwise be the case.

            In humble service to Our Dream,
            Mathew Baker






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Sara L Uckelman
            ... Both men and women would wear cloaks. What to make it out of depends on what you want to use it for. I most recently made a quilt out of a medium weight
            Message 5 of 19 , Dec 26, 2007
              Quoth "teresa":
              > What would or could a cloak be made out of fabric wise? Would that work
              > for male or female?

              Both men and women would wear cloaks. What to make it out of depends
              on what you want to use it for. I most recently made a quilt out of
              a medium weight wool, because I wanted something that would serve as
              a coat-substitute for winter events. For summer events, a heavier
              weight linen would probably be better than wool.

              -Aryanhwy


              --
              vita sine literis mors est
              http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/
            • Kyla
              Your coat sounds lovely! Have you done anything to make it water resistant, or water proof? I hope you won t mind if I use your example to get some
              Message 6 of 19 , Dec 26, 2007
                Your coat sounds lovely! Have you done anything to make it water resistant,
                or water proof?
                I hope you won't mind if I use your example to get some clarification on a
                point I am not entirely sure of.

                I was told - by not entirely reliable sources - that the only real
                difference between a cloak or cape and a coat is sleeves.
                If it has sleeves, it is a coat. A coat may have capes and half capes over
                it.
                A cape or cloak does not have sleeves.

                Does anyone have an opinion on this? On what might the opinion be based?

                I would really like to know, as I am currently making a period designed
                garment which can have either - the sides can be buttoned together with the
                sleeves to form a cape, or the sleeves can be buttoned to themselves, and
                the sides buttoned shut to make a coat with very long sleeves. The litle
                bit of info available with the pattern called it a 'cassock', but I don't
                think that sounds right. It's Renaissance, and I think English, but again,
                the person generous with the pattern did not save the research, so I am not
                really sure. (It looked so cool - and comfortable!)

                Thanks!

                Kyla/Tabitha Pennywarden
                Ravenslake, Midlands,
                Middle Kingdom



                -----Original Message-----
                From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com]On
                Behalf Of wendy brown
                Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 8:32 AM
                To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] cloak


                Greetings Teresa,
                I made mine out of fabric I got at a second hand place here in Georgia.
                Mine is heavy like apolstery fabric and then I lined it with satin. I love
                my cloak. It's warm and the wind doesn't get through it. It's velvet arms
                and the heavy body part. The arms are about a wine color and the body is
                wine with gold patterning. Maybe it's not period but I've been in the
                Kingdom less than a year and I love it it's alot of fun.

                Ælfwynn of Lynford
                Kingdom of Meridies
                Shire of Beau Fort

                ----- Original Message ----
                From: teresa <tresehardy@...>
                To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 8:51:23 AM
                Subject: [SCA Newcomers] cloak

                What would or could a cloak be made out of fabric wise? Would that work
                for male or female?
                Thank you,
                Teresa
                Kingdom of Ansteorra
                Barony of Northkeep

                __________________________________________________________
                Looking for last minute shopping deals?
                Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
                http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Patrick Callahan
                I live in a climate where it is rainy much of the year. I have had some success using modern synthetic blend gabardine for my brats. A brat is a type of Irish
                Message 7 of 19 , Dec 26, 2007
                  I live in a climate where it is rainy much of the
                  year. I have had some success using modern synthetic
                  blend gabardine for my brats. A brat is a type of
                  Irish cape. I admit such materials are OTP, but they
                  look nice, drape well and require little in the way of
                  water proofing.

                  Just A Thought:



                  Krezye Padreyk
                • Labhaoise O'Beachain
                  Good wool is fairly rain resistant too, and period.... altho not as cheap! Labhaoise(who s always looking for the wet sheep)
                  Message 8 of 19 , Dec 26, 2007
                    Good wool is fairly rain resistant too, and period.... altho not as
                    cheap!
                    Labhaoise(who's always looking for the wet sheep)

                    --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Callahan
                    <naspiritwalker@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I live in a climate where it is rainy much of the
                    > year. I have had some success using modern synthetic
                    > blend gabardine for my brats. A brat is a type of
                    > Irish cape. I admit such materials are OTP, but they
                    > look nice, drape well and require little in the way of
                    > water proofing.
                    >
                    > Just A Thought:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Krezye Padreyk
                    >
                  • Coblaith Mhuimhneach
                    ... Traditionally, wool, especially if you want it to be warm (which I assume is a factor at least part of the year in Northkeep). Silk was also used
                    Message 9 of 19 , Dec 26, 2007
                      teresa wrote:
                      > What would or could a cloak be made out of fabric wise? Would that
                      > work for male or female?

                      Traditionally, wool, especially if you want it to be warm (which I
                      assume is a factor at least part of the year in Northkeep). Silk was
                      also used sometimes, in some parts of Europe, especially in ceremonial
                      settings, and sometimes either of those was lined with linen.

                      If you've got a particular period in mind, we may be able to point you
                      to more detailed info on something appropriate to it.


                      Coblaith Mhuimhneach
                      Barony of Bryn Gwlad
                      Kingdom of Ansteorra
                      <mailto:Coblaith@...>
                    • PATRICIA BENTLEY
                      i make my cloaks usually out of a dark color penne or red with a cotton or flannel lining. Keep it simple and then I use a spray on weather proofing and hang
                      Message 10 of 19 , Dec 26, 2007
                        i make my cloaks usually out of a dark color penne or red with a cotton or flannel lining. Keep it simple and then I use a spray on weather proofing and hang it my clothes line to test it.


                        To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.comFrom: tresehardy@...: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 13:51:23 +0000Subject: [SCA Newcomers] cloak




                        What would or could a cloak be made out of fabric wise? Would that work for male or female?Thank you,TeresaKingdom of AnsteorraBarony of Northkeep






                        _________________________________________________________________
                        Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
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                      • bronwynmgn@aol.com
                        In a message dated 12/26/2007 8:51:47 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, tresehardy@yahoo.com writes:
                        Message 11 of 19 , Dec 26, 2007
                          In a message dated 12/26/2007 8:51:47 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                          tresehardy@... writes:

                          <<What would or could a cloak be made out of fabric wise? Would that work
                          for male or female?>>

                          First, what's the purpose for the cloak? To keep you warm and dry at cold
                          or wet events? Or just to be a fashion accessory?

                          The reason I ask is because, if your purpose is the first, you can't do
                          better than a heavy felted wool outerlayer (think wool coat material) lined with
                          linen. Felted wool is naturally water-repellant and is the only fiber that
                          will hold in warmth even when wet. Failing the ability to tolerate wool, even
                          lined, I believe there is some evidence for the use of oiled canvas
                          (oilskins) in period, but I'm sure Elias, being a sailor, probably knows more about
                          that end of things.

                          If you are in a climate where wool would be too warm, or if you are looking
                          more at a fashion accessory, lighter woven wools work; I've also heard of
                          people using plain colors of fleece for this purpose. These won't keep you dry,
                          though. I suppose a heavy linen or even cotton might work as well, but you
                          really need some weight to it for it to hang right.

                          I've not heard of a difference in material used for male or female outer
                          garments like cloaks, but there may be some style differences depending on time
                          period and culture. If you are just looking for a generic cloak, then either
                          a semi-circular pieced from triangles or a square or rectangular piece will
                          work equally well for men or women.


                          Brangwayna Morgan
                          Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                          Lancaster, PA



                          **************************************See AOL's top rated recipes
                          (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)


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                        • Michele Bouchard
                          Regarding my wonderful, much-loved cloak, I bought it from a merchant at the Potrero May War in beautiful Calafia, Caid (San Diego, CA.) It s dark blue summer
                          Message 12 of 19 , Dec 26, 2007
                            Regarding my wonderful, much-loved cloak, I bought it from a merchant at the Potrero May War in beautiful Calafia, Caid (San Diego, CA.) It's dark blue summer wool on the outside, and lines with pristinely white wool on the inside.....makes me feel like a million bucks to wear it. Its super warm, not one shred of wind gets through it, and it looks awesome.
                            Granted, it doesnt quite work for my Indian persona now, but hey....I figure when it gets cold I'll just revert back to my old French persona and enjoy my brocades and velvets. :)

                            *That is, until I get the hang of the beautiful coats and robes of the Mughal Empire....THEN Ill be stylin' no matter what the weather :)

                            ~Sunayna :)


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                          • JonH
                            Can anyone suggest a pattern for a robe similar to the plain brown jedi type see in StarWars? I don t know which period this might be closest to but Im looking
                            Message 13 of 19 , Oct 10 2:43 AM
                              Can anyone suggest a pattern for a robe similar to the plain brown jedi type see in StarWars? I don't know which period this might be closest to but Im looking for something similar for my son.
                              Thank you.
                              Jon
                            • Logan Jacobson
                              the closest i can find would be a monk robe, they are greatly similar with little variation. i wish i could help more. ________________________________ From:
                              Message 14 of 19 , Oct 11 5:59 AM
                                the closest i can find would be a monk robe, they are greatly similar with
                                little variation. i wish i could help more.




                                ________________________________
                                From: JonH <jon.horde@...>
                                To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Sun, October 10, 2010 4:43:34 AM
                                Subject: [SCA Newcomers] cloak

                                 
                                Can anyone suggest a pattern for a robe similar to the plain brown jedi type see
                                in StarWars? I don't know which period this might be closest to but Im looking
                                for something similar for my son.
                                Thank you.
                                Jon







                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Stefan li Rous
                                Jon asked:
                                Message 15 of 19 , Oct 11 8:01 PM
                                  Jon asked:
                                  <<< Can anyone suggest a pattern for a robe similar to the plain brown jedi type see in StarWars? I don't know which period this might be closest to but Im looking for something similar for my son. >>>

                                  I'm not sure if this style is in any way medieval or not. However, you might want to look at these files in the CLOTHING section of the Florilegium:
                                  AS-Cloaks-art (10K) 5/ 3/02 "An Anglo-Saxon Cloak" by Lady Eowyn "Eo" Swiftlere.
                                  http://www.florilegium.org/files/CLOTHING/AS-Cloaks-art.html

                                  cloaks-msg (56K) 1/10/08 Cloaks, cloak pins and clasps.
                                  http://www.florilegium.org/files/CLOTHING/cloaks-msg.html

                                  While not necessarily talking about cloaks, some folks might also find this file of use:
                                  raingear-msg (61K) 2/15/10 Period raingear. waterproofing cloth.
                                  http://www.florilegium.org/files/CLOTHING/raingear-msg.html

                                  If you've not been to the Florilegium, the address is in my signature line below.

                                  Stefan
                                  --------
                                  THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
                                  Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas StefanliRous@...
                                  **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org ****
                                • JonH
                                  Thank you. Can you suggest where I could find a pattern for one? Jon
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Oct 12 4:54 PM
                                    Thank you. Can you suggest where I could find a pattern for one?
                                    Jon

                                    --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Logan Jacobson <razhneh@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > the closest i can find would be a monk robe, they are greatly similar with
                                    > little variation. i wish i could help more.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • JonH
                                    Maybe I m searching it wrong but I can t find a single pattern nor even a picture of a cloak on Florilegium. Is there a section with pictures for beginners or
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Oct 12 4:57 PM
                                      Maybe I'm searching it wrong but I can't find a single pattern nor even a picture of a cloak on Florilegium. Is there a section with pictures for beginners or archive of patterns like they have on Armor Archives?
                                      Jon




                                      However, you might want to look at these files in the CLOTHING section of the Florilegium:
                                      > AS-Cloaks-art (10K) 5/ 3/02 "An Anglo-Saxon Cloak" by Lady Eowyn "Eo" Swiftlere.
                                    • Kyla
                                      Greetings Jon, What kind of armour do you make? I make some cold worked steel and leather armour myself, and I find that constructing clothing and constructing
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Oct 12 5:45 PM
                                        Greetings Jon,

                                        What kind of armour do you make?
                                        I make some cold worked steel and leather armour myself, and I find that
                                        constructing clothing and constructing armour are not that different, as
                                        long as you understand what your construction material can and can't do.
                                        I usually make my own patterns, based on period paintings and other people's
                                        research - that way the garment or armour fits me better.

                                        A brief look through my personal archives turns up a couple of pattern
                                        companies, and a few other sites that include cloaks and robes.
                                        I haven't looked at the cloaks on these sites myself, but period cloaks and
                                        robes all have a very similar construction style, with details of cut,
                                        material and trim being what defines them as being from a particular time or
                                        region.

                                        I think you may be looking for something like this:
                                        http://www.folkwear.com/patternindex.html

                                        or maybe this:
                                        http://www.feoragdubh.eastkingdom.org/GarbWorkshops.php
                                        scroll down to cloak specific info.

                                        While I'm at it, here are some other sites that might be useful.
                                        http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/cloth/bockhome.html

                                        http://stores.renstore.com/StoreFront.bok

                                        http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/beginners.php?c=22&d=29&w=24&r=Y

                                        I hope some of these links will help.
                                        I'm sorry that garb, in general, is not as organized as the Armour Archive,
                                        but it is a much larger subject.

                                        Tabitha Pennywarden, who really appreciates people who do research!


                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com]On
                                        Behalf Of JonH
                                        Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 6:57 PM
                                        To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: [SCA Newcomers] Re: cloak



                                        Maybe I'm searching it wrong but I can't find a single pattern nor even a
                                        picture of a cloak on Florilegium. Is there a section with pictures for
                                        beginners or archive of patterns like they have on Armor Archives?
                                        Jon

                                        However, you might want to look at these files in the CLOTHING section of
                                        the Florilegium:
                                        > AS-Cloaks-art (10K) 5/ 3/02 "An Anglo-Saxon Cloak" by Lady Eowyn "Eo"
                                        Swiftlere.






                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Stefan li Rous
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Oct 13 10:12 PM
                                          <<< Maybe I'm searching it wrong but I can't find a single pattern nor even a picture of a cloak on Florilegium. Is there a section with pictures for beginners or archive of patterns like they have on Armor Archives?
                                          Jon

                                          However, you might want to look at these files in the CLOTHING section of the Florilegium:
                                          > AS-Cloaks-art (10K) 5/ 3/02 "An Anglo-Saxon Cloak" by Lady Eowyn "Eo" Swiftlere. >>>

                                          Okay, I hadn't read the file in a while. I see that it describes a much simpler and easier cloak to make, little or no cutting or sewing. But it doesn't match the cloak you were looking for.

                                          The other file, being a collection of messages off of various newsgroups and mail lists, doesn't have any patterns or diagrams because those aren't allowed in most groups. I was hoping that some of the books referenced or the, sometimes, patterns and pattern sources mentioned might be of use to you.

                                          Everything is organized in the files and sections that you found.

                                          This file in the CLOTHING section does have reviews of various mundane patterns. I know there is one for cloaks, since that is what my mother used when she sewed mine and my wife's. However, if I saw a message on that pattern it is likely in the cloaks-msg file and not in this file. But it might be worth a look.

                                          patterns-msg (115K) 4/19/10 Sources for clothing patterns. Altering mundane patterns.
                                          http://www.florilegium.org/files/CLOTHING/patterns-msg.html

                                          For future reference, although it won't help in this case, there is a search engine on the top page of the Florilegium that is useful in searching the entire site. This is especially good for items that I don't have enough information on to create a file for, but which are in part of other files.

                                          Stefan

                                          --------
                                          THLord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra
                                          Mark S. Harris Austin, Texas StefanliRous@...
                                          **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at: http://www.florilegium.org ****
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