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Re: [SCA Newcomers] Fun with words, re: 12th Night

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  • Elizabeth Cember
    Heh, I d never known about the definition of catholic as only pertaining to Christian groups,. Not that it s relevant, but I wonder if that was the first
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 2, 2007
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      Heh, I'd never known about the definition of "catholic" as only pertaining to Christian groups,. Not that it's relevant, but I wonder if that was the first usage or if the all-encompassing one came first?

      Thanks,

      Elspeth

      I bring myself happiness by surrounding myself with beautiful things;
      I bring myself joy by trying to see the beauty in all things.

      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Labhaoise O'Beachain <labhaoise_obeachain@...>
      To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, November 2, 2007 8:58:46 PM
      Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] HMMM......













      like what? I merely meant that this is a traditional christian (stolen

      most like) celebration, not an RC pr PC celebration specifically. Large

      C Catholic is used to refer to RC (Roman Catholic) and small c refers

      to the larger christian church....



      As for our purposes, one would celebrate in the tradition of the

      period ... most likely in the Western European tradition. In the

      medival period and into the renessance, christians in Europe held to

      the (Roman) Catholic traditions under the Pope or Bishop of Rome.



      Eastern Europe and into Asia predominantly fell into a catholic

      traditon that grew into Russian Catholics, Polish Catholics, Eastern

      Orothodox, etc who followed the lead of the Bishops at Constantinople.

      These groups mostly did NOT celebrate Twelfth Night or the Feast of the

      Three Kings.



      I'm afraid I've traveled rather far afield, but while I'm here Epiphany

      is the celebration of the Manifestaion of Christ(go figure, how those

      got together) but epiphany is the "Ah Hah" moment that changes

      vision.... (well that makes sense, Christ appears(manifests) , we all go

      AH HAH, realizing the way...)

      Labhaoise



      PS I NEVER correct other's spelling, MINE is TOO bad.

      --- In scanewcomers@ yahoogroups. com, "tasuil" <tasuil@...> wrote:

      >

      > hey, don't be like that...

      > --- In scanewcomers@ yahoogroups. com, "Labhaoise O'Beachain"

      > <labhaoise_obeachai n@> wrote:

      > >

      > > Psst, that is small C, catholic not large.....

      > >

      > > --- In scanewcomers@ yahoogroups. com, Sara L Uckelman <liana@> wrote:

      > >

      > > > Historically, 12th Night was a major celebration in the Catholic

      > > > festival calendar; it's the 12th night after Christmas (the

      > > > intervening days being the 12 Days of Christmas, as in the song),

      > > > and traditionally the day that the three wise men came to visit

      > > > Jesus. You can read more about the history of the holiday at

      > > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Twelfth_Night_ %28holiday% 29

      > >

      >














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    • Labhaoise O'Beachain
      And the answer is..... [Middle English catholik, universally accepted, from Old French catholique, from Latin catholicus, universal, from Greek katholikos,
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 3, 2007
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        And the answer is.....

        [Middle English catholik, universally accepted, from Old French
        catholique, from Latin catholicus, universal, from Greek katholikos,
        from katholou, in general : kat-, kata-, down, along, according to;
        see cata- + holou (from neuter genitive of holos, whole; see sol- in
        Indo-European roots).]
        Labhaoise

        Psst, many early christians were speekers of Greek...

        --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Elizabeth Cember
        <sapphire_chan@...> wrote:
        >
        > Heh, I'd never known about the definition of "catholic" as only
        pertaining to Christian groups,. Not that it's relevant, but I
        wonder if that was the first usage or if the all-encompassing one
        came first?
        >
        > Thanks,
        >
        > Elspeth
        >
        > I bring myself happiness by surrounding myself with beautiful
        things;
        > I bring myself joy by trying to see the beauty in all things.
        >
        > ----- Original Message ----
        > From: Labhaoise O'Beachain <labhaoise_obeachain@...>
        > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Friday, November 2, 2007 8:58:46 PM
        > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] HMMM......
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > like what? I merely meant that this is a traditional
        christian (stolen
        >
        > most like) celebration, not an RC pr PC celebration specifically.
        Large
        >
        > C Catholic is used to refer to RC (Roman Catholic) and small c
        refers
        >
        > to the larger christian church....
        >
        >
        >
        > As for our purposes, one would celebrate in the tradition of the
        >
        > period ... most likely in the Western European tradition. In the
        >
        > medival period and into the renessance, christians in Europe held
        to
        >
        > the (Roman) Catholic traditions under the Pope or Bishop of Rome.
        >
        >
        >
        > Eastern Europe and into Asia predominantly fell into a catholic
        >
        > traditon that grew into Russian Catholics, Polish Catholics,
        Eastern
        >
        > Orothodox, etc who followed the lead of the Bishops at
        Constantinople.
        >
        > These groups mostly did NOT celebrate Twelfth Night or the Feast of
        the
        >
        > Three Kings.
        >
        >
        >
        > I'm afraid I've traveled rather far afield, but while I'm here
        Epiphany
        >
        > is the celebration of the Manifestaion of Christ(go figure, how
        those
        >
        > got together) but epiphany is the "Ah Hah" moment that changes
        >
        > vision.... (well that makes sense, Christ appears(manifests) , we
        all go
        >
        > AH HAH, realizing the way...)
        >
        > Labhaoise
        >
        >
        >
        > PS I NEVER correct other's spelling, MINE is TOO bad.
        >
        > --- In scanewcomers@ yahoogroups. com, "tasuil" <tasuil@> wrote:
        >
        > >
        >
        > > hey, don't be like that...
        >
        > > --- In scanewcomers@ yahoogroups. com, "Labhaoise O'Beachain"
        >
        > > <labhaoise_obeachai n@> wrote:
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > > Psst, that is small C, catholic not large.....
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > > --- In scanewcomers@ yahoogroups. com, Sara L Uckelman <liana@>
        wrote:
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > > > Historically, 12th Night was a major celebration in the
        Catholic
        >
        > > > > festival calendar; it's the 12th night after Christmas (the
        >
        > > > > intervening days being the 12 Days of Christmas, as in the
        song),
        >
        > > > > and traditionally the day that the three wise men came to
        visit
        >
        > > > > Jesus. You can read more about the history of the holiday at
        >
        > > > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Twelfth_Night_ %28holiday% 29
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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      • Patrick Callahan
        I though Catholic was translated as Universal . So in the Protestant where I grew up they would speak of the Catholic Church meaning the Universal
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 3, 2007
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          I though "Catholic" was translated as "Universal". So
          in the Protestant where I grew up they would speak of
          the "Catholic Church" meaning the "Universal Church"
          or the world wide body of believers in some variation
          of the Christian Faith. Which would include both
          Protestants and Catholics.

          Krezye Padreyk
        • Brittany Phelps
          It is weird, but if catholic is lowercase that is what it means, but uppercase Catholic is a branch of the church...I think. Patrick Callahan
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 3, 2007
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            It is weird, but if catholic is lowercase that is what it means, but uppercase Catholic is a branch of the church...I think.

            Patrick Callahan <naspiritwalker@...> wrote:
            I though "Catholic" was translated as "Universal". So
            in the Protestant where I grew up they would speak of
            the "Catholic Church" meaning the "Universal Church"
            or the world wide body of believers in some variation
            of the Christian Faith. Which would include both
            Protestants and Catholics.

            Krezye Padreyk




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          • Labhaoise O'Beachain
            Krezye, You can see where the confusion comes in. Big C(which the RCs take for their own) means ROMAN CATHOLIC; they THINK they ARE the universal church(not
            Message 5 of 6 , Nov 3, 2007
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              Krezye,
              You can see where the confusion comes in.

              Big C(which the RCs take for their own) means ROMAN CATHOLIC; they
              THINK they ARE the universal church(not really, but...).

              Small c means UNIVERSAL or UNDIVIDED church (all christians.)
              Sometimes small c means the broader "traditional" or "conservative"
              church leaving out some sects. By the way small c catholic is more
              often used in religious discussion (like now) than in self-
              description.

              If as I did as a child you live in a predominantly (say) Baptist
              community where RCs are rare on unknown, Catholic (big C) is used
              almost as an epithet, meaning them "AWFUL POPISTS". Not to say it
              isn't used that way in more diverse areas, it just is harder to tell
              the difference if you don't hear it often.
              Labhaoise

              --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Callahan
              <naspiritwalker@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > I though "Catholic" was translated as "Universal". So
              > in the Protestant where I grew up they would speak of
              > the "Catholic Church" meaning the "Universal Church"
              > or the world wide body of believers in some variation
              > of the Christian Faith. Which would include both
              > Protestants and Catholics.
              >
              > Krezye Padreyk
              >
            • Labhaoise O'Beachain
              Actually several branches, all claiming to be THE Catholic Church(both large and small C), Roman Catholic, Russian Catholics, Polish Catholics, ad
              Message 6 of 6 , Nov 3, 2007
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                Actually several branches, all claiming to be THE Catholic Church(both
                large and small C), Roman Catholic, Russian Catholics, Polish
                Catholics, ad infinitum....

                --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Brittany Phelps <waterviolite@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > It is weird, but if catholic is lowercase that is what it means, but
                uppercase Catholic is a branch of the church...I think.
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