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Re: [SCA Newcomers] HMMM......

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  • tasuil
    Dear Jerusha; Thank you for responding, actually would you be able to give me some links on 12th Night and why it is important? Just understanding would really
    Message 1 of 23 , Nov 2, 2007
      Dear Jerusha;
      Thank you for responding, actually would you be able to give me some
      links on 12th Night and why it is important? Just understanding
      would really help me out!!
      Congrats on the new job too!!!



      --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Susan Farmer <sfarmer@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Quoting tasuil <tasuil@...>:
      >
      > >
      > > Personally, I haven't got a clue and obviously from the various
      > > responses (polite but firm of) "Know you are new" "Would love to
      > > help with [pick a topic]but can't until after 12th Night"
      > > Even have contacted some guilds but lots of out of date stuff
      there;
      > > so have worked on Heraldry, research, clothing to keep myself
      out of
      > > trouble...Hmmmmm...
      > > Anyone else going through some of this???
      > >
      > >
      >
      > I don't know where you are -- and I've been covered up to my
      eyeballs
      > in New Job Stuff, so I've been reading all my lists sporadically --

      > but do you have something specific that you need help with?
      >
      > jerusha (in Meridies)
      > -----
      > Susan Farmer
      > sfarmer@...
      > Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College
      > Division of Science and Math
      > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/
      >
    • Sara L Uckelman
      ... Historically, 12th Night was a major celebration in the Catholic festival calendar; it s the 12th night after Christmas (the intervening days being the 12
      Message 2 of 23 , Nov 2, 2007
        Quoth "tasuil":
        > Thank you for responding, actually would you be able to give me some
        > links on 12th Night and why it is important? Just understanding
        > would really help me out!!

        Historically, 12th Night was a major celebration in the Catholic
        festival calendar; it's the 12th night after Christmas (the
        intervening days being the 12 Days of Christmas, as in the song),
        and traditionally the day that the three wise men came to visit
        Jesus. You can read more about the history of the holiday at
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelfth_Night_%28holiday%29

        In the SCA, 12th Night is generally a big celebratory event, not
        specifically of Christmas or any religious festival, but of the
        New Year, and of friends, and of good cheer in winter. Often
        people exchange small gifts or tokens with each other. Quite often
        most SCAdians are busy with real life throughout the end of
        November and December, but once the non-SCA holidays are over with,
        then people enjoy having a day to celebrate with their SCA friends,
        and that's what 12th Night is generally all about.

        In Drachenwald, the 12th Night event is also the coronation of
        the king and queen, so there is extra reason for pomp and circumstance.

        Hope this helps!

        -Aryanhwy



        --
        vita sine literis mors est
        http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/
      • tasuil
        Thanks this is wonderful information and for the link too!!! ... some ... circumstance.
        Message 3 of 23 , Nov 2, 2007
          Thanks this is wonderful information and for the link too!!!



          --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Sara L Uckelman <liana@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Quoth "tasuil":
          > > Thank you for responding, actually would you be able to give me
          some
          > > links on 12th Night and why it is important? Just understanding
          > > would really help me out!!
          >
          > Historically, 12th Night was a major celebration in the Catholic
          > festival calendar; it's the 12th night after Christmas (the
          > intervening days being the 12 Days of Christmas, as in the song),
          > and traditionally the day that the three wise men came to visit
          > Jesus. You can read more about the history of the holiday at
          > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelfth_Night_%28holiday%29
          >
          > In the SCA, 12th Night is generally a big celebratory event, not
          > specifically of Christmas or any religious festival, but of the
          > New Year, and of friends, and of good cheer in winter. Often
          > people exchange small gifts or tokens with each other. Quite often
          > most SCAdians are busy with real life throughout the end of
          > November and December, but once the non-SCA holidays are over with,
          > then people enjoy having a day to celebrate with their SCA friends,
          > and that's what 12th Night is generally all about.
          >
          > In Drachenwald, the 12th Night event is also the coronation of
          > the king and queen, so there is extra reason for pomp and
          circumstance.
          >
          > Hope this helps!
          >
          > -Aryanhwy
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          > vita sine literis mors est
          > http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/
          >
        • Labhaoise O'Beachain
          Psst, that is small C, catholic not large.....
          Message 4 of 23 , Nov 2, 2007
            Psst, that is small C, catholic not large.....

            --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Sara L Uckelman <liana@...> wrote:

            > Historically, 12th Night was a major celebration in the Catholic
            > festival calendar; it's the 12th night after Christmas (the
            > intervening days being the 12 Days of Christmas, as in the song),
            > and traditionally the day that the three wise men came to visit
            > Jesus. You can read more about the history of the holiday at
            > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelfth_Night_%28holiday%29
          • Labhaoise O'Beachain
            Toss in life in general, you know mundane stuff and that sounds about right.... I haven t had a chance to pull together garb, me or the kids either.... I
            Message 5 of 23 , Nov 2, 2007
              Toss in life in general, you know mundane stuff and that sounds about
              right.... I haven't had a chance to pull together garb, me or the
              kids either.... I ripped the seams out of two linen dresses and a
              couple of wool skirts for fabric for the kids and had to start
              packing my life up (AGAIN!) I know that Golden Key exists, but I and
              they do not seem to be able to match up times.... AND I work with
              some of these people~

              I have been to a couple of "undress" gatherings and I would like to
              pull out my 'broideries and go to a practice...

              So, I am as tied up as the old hands...
              Labhaoise

              --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "tasuil" <tasuil@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello All;
              >
              > To preface, this is just the newcomers area - anyone who wants to
              > defend SCA is missing the point, I am not asking for that, this is
              > just to help us newbies with the trials and tribulations of fiting
              > into SCA... So please NO Offense is meant to anyone anywhere
              > anyhow...
              > But I do know that others share these feelings too.
              >
              > In a kingdom, a newbie, of course...While lots has been happening
              > with the established groups nothing seems to be happening for
              > newbies...At least until after 12th Night.
              >
              > I guess this is biggest celebration of the year and everyone but
              > everyone is doing something special for it.
              >
              > Personally, I haven't got a clue and obviously from the various
              > responses (polite but firm of) "Know you are new" "Would love to
              > help with [pick a topic]but can't until after 12th Night"
              > Even have contacted some guilds but lots of out of date stuff
              there;
              > so have worked on Heraldry, research, clothing to keep myself out
              of
              > trouble...Hmmmmm...
              > Anyone else going through some of this???
              >
            • Elizabeth Cember
              I know many many people who do not have anything other than the SCA version of 12th night on their festive calendars. Unless you re trying to argue that
              Message 6 of 23 , Nov 2, 2007
                I know many many people who do not have anything other than the SCA version of 12th night on their festive calendars. Unless you're trying to argue that Epiphany is universal to all forms of Christianity and not just Catholicism? Small c catholic is a bit too encompassing for it to really work in that context.

                Elspeth

                I bring myself happiness by surrounding myself with beautiful things;
                I bring myself joy by trying to see the beauty in all things.

                ----- Original Message ----
                From: Labhaoise O'Beachain <labhaoise_obeachain@...>
                To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, November 2, 2007 5:09:22 PM
                Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] HMMM......













                Psst, that is small C, catholic not large.....



                --- In scanewcomers@ yahoogroups. com, Sara L Uckelman <liana@...> wrote:



                > Historically, 12th Night was a major celebration in the Catholic

                > festival calendar; it's the 12th night after Christmas (the

                > intervening days being the 12 Days of Christmas, as in the song),

                > and traditionally the day that the three wise men came to visit

                > Jesus. You can read more about the history of the holiday at

                > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Twelfth_Night_ %28holiday% 29














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              • sidhemaiden
                In this instance it is a capitol C as she is refering particularly to the Roman Catholic Church and its festival calendar.
                Message 7 of 23 , Nov 2, 2007
                  In this instance it is a capitol C as she is refering particularly to
                  the Roman Catholic Church and its festival calendar.


                  --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Labhaoise O'Beachain"
                  <labhaoise_obeachain@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Psst, that is small C, catholic not large.....
                • tasuil
                  hey, don t be like that...
                  Message 8 of 23 , Nov 2, 2007
                    hey, don't be like that...
                    --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Labhaoise O'Beachain"
                    <labhaoise_obeachain@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Psst, that is small C, catholic not large.....
                    >
                    > --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Sara L Uckelman <liana@> wrote:
                    >
                    > > Historically, 12th Night was a major celebration in the Catholic
                    > > festival calendar; it's the 12th night after Christmas (the
                    > > intervening days being the 12 Days of Christmas, as in the song),
                    > > and traditionally the day that the three wise men came to visit
                    > > Jesus. You can read more about the history of the holiday at
                    > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelfth_Night_%28holiday%29
                    >
                  • tasuil
                    Again-I do understand that people are busy no defense of your time is needed this is just an open-forum. But I did like your idea about the linens and redoing.
                    Message 9 of 23 , Nov 2, 2007
                      Again-I do understand that people are busy no defense of your time
                      is needed this is just an open-forum. But I did like your idea about
                      the linens and redoing.
                      Thanks


                      --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Labhaoise O'Beachain"
                      <labhaoise_obeachain@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Toss in life in general, you know mundane stuff and that sounds
                      about
                      > right.... I haven't had a chance to pull together garb, me or the
                      > kids either.... I ripped the seams out of two linen dresses and a
                      > couple of wool skirts for fabric for the kids and had to start
                      > packing my life up (AGAIN!) I know that Golden Key exists, but I
                      and
                      > they do not seem to be able to match up times.... AND I work with
                      > some of these people~
                      >
                      > I have been to a couple of "undress" gatherings and I would like
                      to
                      > pull out my 'broideries and go to a practice...
                      >
                      > So, I am as tied up as the old hands...
                      > Labhaoise
                      >
                      > --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "tasuil" <tasuil@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hello All;
                      > >
                      > > To preface, this is just the newcomers area - anyone who wants
                      to
                      > > defend SCA is missing the point, I am not asking for that, this
                      is
                      > > just to help us newbies with the trials and tribulations of
                      fiting
                      > > into SCA... So please NO Offense is meant to anyone anywhere
                      > > anyhow...
                      > > But I do know that others share these feelings too.
                      > >
                      > > In a kingdom, a newbie, of course...While lots has been
                      happening
                      > > with the established groups nothing seems to be happening for
                      > > newbies...At least until after 12th Night.
                      > >
                      > > I guess this is biggest celebration of the year and everyone but
                      > > everyone is doing something special for it.
                      > >
                      > > Personally, I haven't got a clue and obviously from the various
                      > > responses (polite but firm of) "Know you are new" "Would love to
                      > > help with [pick a topic]but can't until after 12th Night"
                      > > Even have contacted some guilds but lots of out of date stuff
                      > there;
                      > > so have worked on Heraldry, research, clothing to keep myself
                      out
                      > of
                      > > trouble...Hmmmmm...
                      > > Anyone else going through some of this???
                      > >
                      >
                    • tasuil
                      Elspeth - I believe this was just a spelling correction not a philosophical correction, but thanks for the viewpoint. ... SCA version of 12th night on their
                      Message 10 of 23 , Nov 2, 2007
                        Elspeth - I believe this was just a spelling correction not a
                        philosophical correction, but thanks for the viewpoint.


                        --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Elizabeth Cember
                        <sapphire_chan@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I know many many people who do not have anything other than the
                        SCA version of 12th night on their festive calendars. Unless you're
                        trying to argue that Epiphany is universal to all forms of
                        Christianity and not just Catholicism? Small c catholic is a bit
                        too encompassing for it to really work in that context.
                        >
                        > Elspeth
                        >
                        > I bring myself happiness by surrounding myself with beautiful
                        things;
                        > I bring myself joy by trying to see the beauty in all things.
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message ----
                        > From: Labhaoise O'Beachain <labhaoise_obeachain@...>
                        > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Friday, November 2, 2007 5:09:22 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] HMMM......
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Psst, that is small C, catholic not large.....
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In scanewcomers@ yahoogroups. com, Sara L Uckelman <liana@>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > > Historically, 12th Night was a major celebration in the Catholic
                        >
                        > > festival calendar; it's the 12th night after Christmas (the
                        >
                        > > intervening days being the 12 Days of Christmas, as in the song),
                        >
                        > > and traditionally the day that the three wise men came to visit
                        >
                        > > Jesus. You can read more about the history of the holiday at
                        >
                        > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Twelfth_Night_ %28holiday% 29
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
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                      • tasuil
                        Lovely but I am not at that detail - thanks ... to
                        Message 11 of 23 , Nov 2, 2007
                          Lovely but I am not at that detail - thanks

                          --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "sidhemaiden" <sidhemaiden@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > In this instance it is a capitol C as she is refering particularly
                          to
                          > the Roman Catholic Church and its festival calendar.
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Labhaoise O'Beachain"
                          > <labhaoise_obeachain@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Psst, that is small C, catholic not large.....
                          >
                        • Elizabeth Cember
                          If you change it to a small c, it becomes catholic meaning universal it s a different word than Catholic as in the Roman Catholic Church which is
                          Message 12 of 23 , Nov 2, 2007
                            If you change it to a small c, it becomes "catholic" meaning "universal" it's a different word than Catholic as in the Roman Catholic Church which is capitalized. Therefore the spelling correction is also a correction of meaning.

                            It's like:
                            A: Blueberries are yummy.
                            B: I think you mean raspberries.

                            Verses:
                            A: Bleuberries are yummy.
                            B: I think you mean blueberries.

                            Sorry, I've been playing that freerice.com game and doing a lot of vocab thinking lately.

                            Elspeth

                            I bring myself happiness by surrounding myself with beautiful things;
                            I bring myself joy by trying to see the beauty in all things.

                            ----- Original Message ----
                            From: tasuil <tasuil@...>
                            To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Friday, November 2, 2007 5:25:59 PM
                            Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] HMMM......













                            Elspeth - I believe this was just a spelling correction not a

                            philosophical correction, but thanks for the viewpoint.



                            --- In scanewcomers@ yahoogroups. com, Elizabeth Cember

                            <sapphire_chan@ ...> wrote:

                            >

                            > I know many many people who do not have anything other than the

                            SCA version of 12th night on their festive calendars. Unless you're

                            trying to argue that Epiphany is universal to all forms of

                            Christianity and not just Catholicism? Small c catholic is a bit

                            too encompassing for it to really work in that context.

                            >

                            > Elspeth

                            >

                            > I bring myself happiness by surrounding myself with beautiful

                            things;

                            > I bring myself joy by trying to see the beauty in all things.

                            >

                            > ----- Original Message ----

                            > From: Labhaoise O'Beachain <labhaoise_obeachai n@...>

                            > To: scanewcomers@ yahoogroups. com

                            > Sent: Friday, November 2, 2007 5:09:22 PM

                            > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] HMMM......

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            > Psst, that is small C, catholic not large.....

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            > --- In scanewcomers@ yahoogroups. com, Sara L Uckelman <liana@>

                            wrote:

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            > > Historically, 12th Night was a major celebration in the Catholic

                            >

                            > > festival calendar; it's the 12th night after Christmas (the

                            >

                            > > intervening days being the 12 Days of Christmas, as in the song),

                            >

                            > > and traditionally the day that the three wise men came to visit

                            >

                            > > Jesus. You can read more about the history of the holiday at

                            >

                            > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Twelfth_Night_ %28holiday% 29

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

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                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                            __________________________________________________
                            Do You Yahoo!?
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                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • tasuil
                            So besides the spelling - do you have anything to add about 12th Night? ... meaning universal it s a different word than Catholic as in the Roman Catholic
                            Message 13 of 23 , Nov 2, 2007
                              So besides the spelling - do you have anything to add about 12th
                              Night?



                              --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Elizabeth Cember
                              <sapphire_chan@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > If you change it to a small c, it becomes "catholic"
                              meaning "universal" it's a different word than Catholic as in the
                              Roman Catholic Church which is capitalized. Therefore the spelling
                              correction is also a correction of meaning.
                              >
                              > It's like:
                              > A: Blueberries are yummy.
                              > B: I think you mean raspberries.
                              >
                              > Verses:
                              > A: Bleuberries are yummy.
                              > B: I think you mean blueberries.
                              >
                              > Sorry, I've been playing that freerice.com game and doing a lot of
                              vocab thinking lately.
                              >
                              > Elspeth
                              >
                              > I bring myself happiness by surrounding myself with beautiful
                              things;
                              > I bring myself joy by trying to see the beauty in all things.
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message ----
                              > From: tasuil <tasuil@...>
                              > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Friday, November 2, 2007 5:25:59 PM
                              > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] HMMM......
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Elspeth - I believe this was just a spelling
                              correction not a
                              >
                              > philosophical correction, but thanks for the viewpoint.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In scanewcomers@ yahoogroups. com, Elizabeth Cember
                              >
                              > <sapphire_chan@ ...> wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > I know many many people who do not have anything other than the
                              >
                              > SCA version of 12th night on their festive calendars. Unless
                              you're
                              >
                              > trying to argue that Epiphany is universal to all forms of
                              >
                              > Christianity and not just Catholicism? Small c catholic is a bit
                              >
                              > too encompassing for it to really work in that context.
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > Elspeth
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > I bring myself happiness by surrounding myself with beautiful
                              >
                              > things;
                              >
                              > > I bring myself joy by trying to see the beauty in all things.
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > ----- Original Message ----
                              >
                              > > From: Labhaoise O'Beachain <labhaoise_obeachai n@...>
                              >
                              > > To: scanewcomers@ yahoogroups. com
                              >
                              > > Sent: Friday, November 2, 2007 5:09:22 PM
                              >
                              > > Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] HMMM......
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > Psst, that is small C, catholic not large.....
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > --- In scanewcomers@ yahoogroups. com, Sara L Uckelman <liana@>
                              >
                              > wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > Historically, 12th Night was a major celebration in the
                              Catholic
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > festival calendar; it's the 12th night after Christmas (the
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > intervening days being the 12 Days of Christmas, as in the
                              song),
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > and traditionally the day that the three wise men came to visit
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > Jesus. You can read more about the history of the holiday at
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Twelfth_Night_ %28holiday% 29
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > <!--
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > #ygrp-mkp{
                              >
                              > > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font- family:Arial; margin:14px
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                              > > color:#628c2a; font-size: 85%;font- weight:bold; line-
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                              > > -->
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
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                              > >
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                              122%;}
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                              > > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{
                              >
                              > > margin-bottom: 10px;padding: 0 0;}
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                              > > -->
                              >
                              > >
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                              > > <!--
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                              > > #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px; font-family: arial, helvetica,
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                              > > font-family: Georgia;
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                              > > }
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                              >
                              > > margin:0 0 1em 0;}
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                              0;}
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                              > > #ygrp-actbar{
                              >
                              > > clear:both;margin: 25px 0;white-space: nowrap;color: #666;text-
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                              >
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                              >
                              > > font-size:77% ;font-family: Verdana;font- weight:bold;
                              color:#333; text-
                              >
                              > transform:uppercase ;}
                              >
                              > > #ygrp-vital ul{
                              >
                              > > padding:0;margin: 2px 0;}
                              >
                              > > #ygrp-vital ul li{
                              >
                              > > list-style-type: none;clear: both;border: 1px solid #e0ecee;
                              >
                              > > }
                              >
                              > > #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{
                              >
                              > > font-weight: bold;color: #ff7900;float: right;width: 2em;text-
                              >
                              > align:right; padding-right: .5em;}
                              >
                              > > #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{
                              >
                              > > font-weight: bold;}
                              >
                              > > #ygrp-vital a{
                              >
                              > > text-decoration: none;}
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > #ygrp-vital a:hover{
                              >
                              > > text-decoration: underline; }
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > #ygrp-sponsor #hd{
                              >
                              > > color:#999;font- size:77%; }
                              >
                              > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov{
                              >
                              > > padding:6px 13px;background- color:#e0ecee; margin-bottom: 20px;}
                              >
                              > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{
                              >
                              > > padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0; }
                              >
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                            • Sara L Uckelman
                              ... Do Protestants also celebrate 12th Night? That I did not know. -Aryanhwy -- vita sine literis mors est http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/
                              Message 14 of 23 , Nov 2, 2007
                                Quoth "Labhaoise O'Beachain":
                                > > Historically, 12th Night was a major celebration in the Catholic
                                > > festival calendar; it's the 12th night after Christmas (the
                                > > intervening days being the 12 Days of Christmas, as in the song),
                                > > and traditionally the day that the three wise men came to visit
                                > > Jesus. You can read more about the history of the holiday at
                                > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelfth_Night_%28holiday%29
                                >
                                > Psst, that is small C, catholic not large.....

                                Do Protestants also celebrate 12th Night? That I did not know.

                                -Aryanhwy


                                --
                                vita sine literis mors est
                                http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/
                              • bronwynmgn@aol.com
                                In a message dated 11/2/2007 6:32:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, liana@ellipsis.cx writes:
                                Message 15 of 23 , Nov 2, 2007
                                  In a message dated 11/2/2007 6:32:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                  liana@... writes:

                                  <<Do Protestants also celebrate 12th Night? That I did not know.>>

                                  Episcopalians do, to a certain extent. The church that I go to does a very
                                  elaborate 12th night pageant, 3 performances, on the Sunday closest to the
                                  actual date of 12th night most years. It involves over 100 cast members,
                                  including some who fly back from all sorts of places to perform their traditional
                                  roles. One of the guys who comes back every year is a retired Marine general
                                  and he gets dolled up in an Elizabeth doublet, trunk hose and tights every
                                  year...My hubby and another local Scadian put on their armor and act as door
                                  guards and clank around through the sanctuary a few times before the
                                  performance.

                                  We aren't doing it this year though. We take a break every 7 years - why
                                  seven, I do not know. But as the priest pointed out, it's a good year to take
                                  a break since Easter is so incredibly early this year - it's something like
                                  March 22.


                                  Brangwayna Morgan
                                  Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                                  Lancaster, PA



                                  ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Labhaoise O'Beachain
                                  like what? I merely meant that this is a traditional christian (stolen most like) celebration, not an RC pr PC celebration specifically. Large C Catholic is
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Nov 2, 2007
                                    like what? I merely meant that this is a traditional christian (stolen
                                    most like) celebration, not an RC pr PC celebration specifically. Large
                                    C Catholic is used to refer to RC (Roman Catholic) and small c refers
                                    to the larger christian church....

                                    As for our purposes, one would celebrate in the tradition of the
                                    period ... most likely in the Western European tradition. In the
                                    medival period and into the renessance, christians in Europe held to
                                    the (Roman) Catholic traditions under the Pope or Bishop of Rome.

                                    Eastern Europe and into Asia predominantly fell into a catholic
                                    traditon that grew into Russian Catholics, Polish Catholics, Eastern
                                    Orothodox, etc who followed the lead of the Bishops at Constantinople.
                                    These groups mostly did NOT celebrate Twelfth Night or the Feast of the
                                    Three Kings.

                                    I'm afraid I've traveled rather far afield, but while I'm here Epiphany
                                    is the celebration of the Manifestaion of Christ(go figure, how those
                                    got together) but epiphany is the "Ah Hah" moment that changes
                                    vision.... (well that makes sense, Christ appears(manifests), we all go
                                    AH HAH, realizing the way...)
                                    Labhaoise

                                    PS I NEVER correct other's spelling, MINE is TOO bad.
                                    --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "tasuil" <tasuil@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > hey, don't be like that...
                                    > --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Labhaoise O'Beachain"
                                    > <labhaoise_obeachain@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Psst, that is small C, catholic not large.....
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Sara L Uckelman <liana@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > > Historically, 12th Night was a major celebration in the Catholic
                                    > > > festival calendar; it's the 12th night after Christmas (the
                                    > > > intervening days being the 12 Days of Christmas, as in the song),
                                    > > > and traditionally the day that the three wise men came to visit
                                    > > > Jesus. You can read more about the history of the holiday at
                                    > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelfth_Night_%28holiday%29
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • Susan Farmer
                                    ... Thanks! 12th night is the end of the Christmas Holiday. You know the song 12 days of Christmas ? The first day of Christmas is Christmas Day -- the 12th
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Nov 2, 2007
                                      --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "tasuil" <tasuil@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Dear Jerusha;
                                      > Thank you for responding, actually would you be able to give me some
                                      > links on 12th Night and why it is important? Just understanding
                                      > would really help me out!!
                                      > Congrats on the new job too!!!
                                      >

                                      Thanks!

                                      12th night is the end of the Christmas Holiday. You know the song "12
                                      days of Christmas"? The first day of Christmas is Christmas Day --
                                      the 12th day of Christmas is 12th night -- it's the day according to
                                      Tradition that the Wise Men brought gifts to the Christ Child.

                                      jerusha
                                    • Susan Farmer
                                      ... IMO it s Catholic (large C) -- Baptists don t do 12th night. Of course, we don t do Lent or Advent either. jerusha
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Nov 2, 2007
                                        --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, Sara L Uckelman <liana@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Quoth "Labhaoise O'Beachain":
                                        > > > Historically, 12th Night was a major celebration in the Catholic
                                        > > > festival calendar; it's the 12th night after Christmas (the
                                        > > > intervening days being the 12 Days of Christmas, as in the song),
                                        > > > and traditionally the day that the three wise men came to visit
                                        > > > Jesus. You can read more about the history of the holiday at
                                        > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelfth_Night_%28holiday%29
                                        > >
                                        > > Psst, that is small C, catholic not large.....
                                        >
                                        > Do Protestants also celebrate 12th Night? That I did not know.
                                        >

                                        IMO it's Catholic (large C) -- Baptists don't do 12th night. Of
                                        course, we don't do Lent or Advent either.

                                        jerusha
                                      • Labhaoise O'Beachain
                                        Baptists are one sect of Protestants, Methodists and Episcopalians are others. Some do, some don t, and within each sect there are differences as well.
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Nov 3, 2007
                                          Baptists are one sect of Protestants, Methodists and Episcopalians are
                                          others. Some do, some don't, and within each sect there are differences
                                          as well.

                                          Baptists for example split from the Catholic church over the faith
                                          point of being saved by immersion(the dipped or sprinkled arguement).
                                          Like many of the other Protestants the protest in question was the
                                          waste, formality, and classism with in the Catholic (yes, RC) church;
                                          therefore in their reforms many of the celebrations were removed from
                                          the calendar they used.

                                          Other Protestants separated for other reasons, Anglecans(Episcopalians
                                          included) were launched in the time of Henry VII(not just because of
                                          his wives by the way). The feeling there was more of a beleif that the
                                          pomp, ceremony, classism, etc should be Anglocentric(English);
                                          therefore they did not remove things from the calendar for the same
                                          reasons.

                                          Aditionally many of the celebrations of the Church, Protestant,
                                          Catholic, Orthodox, etc is based in what the people they were serving
                                          celebrated at the time they were christianized. Twelfth Night is from
                                          the British Isles predominantly and Feast of the Three Kings from the
                                          area around the Meditaranian, same basic dates, same "historical" event
                                          different names... but basically in both cases a celebration in waste
                                          and excess to celebrate surviving the worst of the Winter season.
                                          Labhaoise

                                          PS someone with more religious training than I please step in, I am
                                          chasing facts around the back of my brain....

                                          --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Farmer" <sfarmer@...> wrote:
                                          > > Do Protestants also celebrate 12th Night? That I did not know.
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > IMO it's Catholic (large C) -- Baptists don't do 12th night. Of
                                          > course, we don't do Lent or Advent either.
                                          >
                                          > jerusha
                                          >
                                        • julian wilson
                                          Labhaoise O Beachain wrote: MUCH GOOD STUFF SNIPPED Other Protestants separated for other reasons, Anglicans (Episcopalians
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Nov 3, 2007
                                            Labhaoise O'Beachain <labhaoise_obeachain@...> wrote:
                                            MUCH GOOD STUFF SNIPPED
                                            Other Protestants separated for other reasons, Anglicans (Episcopalians
                                            included) were launched in the time of Henry VII (not just because of
                                            his wives by the way). The feeling there was more of a belief that the
                                            pomp, ceremony, classism, etc should be Anglocentric (English);
                                            therefore they did not remove things from the calendar for the same
                                            reasons.
                                            MUCH GOOD STUFF SNIPPED


                                            .



                                            COMMENT
                                            Congratulations on a very informative thumbnail sketch of why various Christian sects separated from the original "one True [Christian] Church" - the Church of Rome.

                                            Allow me please one small but important historical correction - the English King Henry VII only married once, and died in 1509, - 29 years prior to the split with Rome.
                                            It was his son, King Henry VIII who had 6 wives, and caused the founding of The Church of England.
                                            And the Schism [generally dated to 1538] had more to do with the Papacy playing politics, and interfering in the internal temporal affairs of Christian countries, - by requiring the "annointed" Sovereigns of those to acknowledge the overall Primacy of the Papacy as to a "temporal" Overlord - which was really the cause of the Schism.
                                            The refusal to allow Henry VIII to divorce Katharine of Aragon is now generally accepted as having been - for King Henry - the "last [political] straw which broke the camel's back", because it had wide-ranging tactical and strategic military and trading implications, - since England's traditional continental enemies - France and Spain - had acknowledged Papal primacy.
                                            The refusal to sanction the Royal Divorce was merely the small "overt" reason magnified for public consumption; which allowed the multitude of other political reasons to remain "covert", and hence to avoid King Henry's .Government giving serious insult to other powerful States with whom England was then notionally "at peace"!
                                            What insult? The unwritten/unspoken one that the supposedly "absolute" Monarchs of France/ Spain/ etc. - were not actually the supreme authorities of their own Realms, because they obeyed the dictates of the Papacy under several levels of implied threat - that of "national Excommunication" being the ultimate sanction, - which might cause a national uprising by the "commonality" in mortal teroor of their own souls - which could then lose the Throne to the reigning Royal House.

                                            YiS,
                                            Matthew Baker.







                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Labhaoise O'Beachain
                                            Huzzah, I knew there was someone out there who KNEW! ... various Christian sects separated from the original one True [Christian] Church - the Church of
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Nov 3, 2007
                                              Huzzah, I knew there was someone out there who KNEW!

                                              --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, julian wilson <smnco37@...>
                                              wrote:
                                              > COMMENT
                                              > Congratulations on a very informative thumbnail sketch of why
                                              various Christian sects separated from the original "one True
                                              [Christian] Church" - the Church of Rome.
                                              >
                                              > Allow me please one small but important historical correction -
                                              the English King Henry VII only married once, and died in 1509, - 29
                                              years prior to the split with Rome.
                                              > It was his son, King Henry VIII who had 6 wives, and caused the
                                              founding of The Church of England.
                                              > And the Schism [generally dated to 1538] had more to do with the
                                              Papacy playing politics, and interfering in the internal temporal
                                              affairs of Christian countries, - by requiring the "annointed"
                                              Sovereigns of those to acknowledge the overall Primacy of the Papacy
                                              as to a "temporal" Overlord - which was really the cause of the
                                              Schism.
                                              > The refusal to allow Henry VIII to divorce Katharine of Aragon
                                              is now generally accepted as having been - for King Henry - the "last
                                              [political] straw which broke the camel's back", because it had wide-
                                              ranging tactical and strategic military and trading implications, -
                                              since England's traditional continental enemies - France and Spain -
                                              had acknowledged Papal primacy.
                                              > The refusal to sanction the Royal Divorce was merely the
                                              small "overt" reason magnified for public consumption; which allowed
                                              the multitude of other political reasons to remain "covert", and
                                              hence to avoid King Henry's .Government giving serious insult to
                                              other powerful States with whom England was then notionally "at
                                              peace"!
                                              > What insult? The unwritten/unspoken one that the
                                              supposedly "absolute" Monarchs of France/ Spain/ etc. - were not
                                              actually the supreme authorities of their own Realms, because they
                                              obeyed the dictates of the Papacy under several levels of implied
                                              threat - that of "national Excommunication" being the ultimate
                                              sanction, - which might cause a national uprising by
                                              the "commonality" in mortal teroor of their own souls - which could
                                              then lose the Throne to the reigning Royal House.
                                              >
                                              > YiS,
                                              > Matthew Baker.
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