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Re: [SCA Newcomers] Newcomer info..

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  • eltleon
    ... I agree - that was one of the biggest problems. And it s not just about the place/time. Try to show a typical event flyer to someone on the outside and see
    Message 1 of 16 , Oct 16, 2007
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      --- In scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com, "Kyla" <skycat@...> wrote:
      >
      > The most difficult thing for me was "same time/place as last time".

      I agree - that was one of the biggest problems. And it's not just about
      the place/time. Try to show a typical event flyer to someone on the
      outside and see how well they will be able to guess what's the event is
      about, what will happen there, how to register, etc. I have even seen
      flyers without the address at all - they would just say that it'll be
      in the camp [SCA name of the camp here]. Good luck map googling that.

      Another pretty frustrating thing was the outdated/not working websites.
      It took me a long time to find the local groups and I end up doing it
      through the kingdom because while local groups are pretty active and
      friendly they just don't give a damn about updating (ummm, let me re-
      phrase that: should be "do not have time and/or technical ability to
      update") their website. Quite frankly, now I don't give a damn about it
      too and would rather spend time outside hitting people with a stick
      *evil grin* but we probably do lose a fair number of new people because
      of that.
    • Elizabeth Bair
      It would not be offensive in the least. =) The etiquette rule for titles is that you used the highest title the person has. Period. If you want or need to
      Message 2 of 16 , Oct 16, 2007
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        It would not be offensive in the least. =) The etiquette rule for
        titles is that you used the highest title the person has. Period. If
        you want or need to include other ranks or awards in the introduction,
        you include them AFTER the person's name. Title stacking is
        incorrect, both in period and in the modern world and just sounds
        goofy anyway. We hear it done incorrectly in the SCA so much that
        folks are used to the way it sounds and tend to think that it is
        correct, but when in doubt, try tranferring SCA practices to the
        modern world. For example, Dwight D. Eisenhower. He is referred to
        as "President Eisenhower"... not "President General Eisenhower"
        which is the modern world equivalent of saying "His Majesty, Sir Stick
        Jock". Or to use a more analogous example - Prince Charles. If we
        used the SCA style of (incorrect) title stacking he would be:
        "Prince, Prince, Duke, Duke, Earl, Earl, Knight, Knight, Baron, Lord
        Charles". While it gets all his titles into the mix, it also doesn't
        really tell you anything much and sounds pretty stupid. If, for
        whatever reason (really formal introduction, heralding someone into a
        tournament, whatever) you wanted to use all of his titles you would
        say: "Prince Charles, By the Grace of God Prince of Wales and
        Scotland, Duke of Rothesay, Duke of Cornwall, Earl of Chester, Earl of
        Carrick, Knight of the Garter, Knight of the Thistle, Baron Renfrew,
        Lord of the Isles, Great Steward of Scotland and Companion of the
        Order of Merit." That's actually the format that is used today and
        should be used in the SCA as well. So instead of "Duke Sir Big Shot"
        you might say "Duke Big Shot, Knight of the SCA, Companion of the
        Order of the Fuzzy Mugwhumps, Defender of the Barony of Nowhereville,
        Protector of small furry creatures and drainer of many kegs of beer",
        which is a LOT more entertaining, provides more useful information
        about him to those who didn't know much about it and is more period
        correct. But in an introduction, you simply say "Duke Big Shot" if
        that's all you know about him, or maybe "Duke Bigshot, who has a soft
        spot for small furry creatures".

        Introductions are unique in that you are introducing people for a
        reason and your intoduction should encompass that reason. If you are
        introducing someone to someone who may be able to help them in some
        way (teach them to fight, teach them costuming, sponsor them in
        entering a tournament or contest, or whatever else) you should include
        that information in the introduction - "Countess Dulcia, may I present
        Lord Rapier Dude from my group who would like very much to participate
        in the Order of the Rose Lyste, if you are not already sponsoring a
        fighter." If the purpose of the introduction is to introduce people
        you like to each other it might be "Lord Good Times, may I present my
        best friend, Eddie? This is his first event but I've told him so much
        about the fun we've had together that he wanted to meet you and hear
        your story about the road trip to Pennsic for himself." If the
        purpose of the introduction is simply to expose someone to people you
        consider important to the group/kingdom/SCA, then all you need to do
        is say "Your Majesty, may I present my sister Jill?" However, if you
        want them to have something to chat about for a moment, I would
        suggest adding something of a personal nature to the introduction.
        Even high ranking SCAers can be shy and feel awkward about making
        random small talk. Even adding something as simple as "this is her
        first event, she's visiting from kingdom X, she was admiring your
        gown, she just authorized as a fighter, I told her the story about how
        you did ____(some funny or inspiring thing)___" or just about anything
        can provide a platform for a short conversation that might not
        otherwise happen if they are left staring at each other thinking "ok,
        now what?". =)

        Dulcia


        Countess Dulcia MacPherson, OL OR
        Kingdom Hospitaller
        Kingdom of Trimaris





        > That is very helpful thank you. I also have a concern. As someone who is relatively new, I
        > would have no idea what all awards the her Majesty has earned. Would it be acceptable to
        > just introduce her as 'Her Majesty ______' or would that be offensive?
        >
        > Caitrina
        > Barony of Elfsea
        > Kingdom of Ansteorra
        >
        >
      • Ken Junkins
        I recently attended the Wrightstown Renaissance Faire in Wrightstown PA. and left my name in a contact book at the SCA tent there. I am not yet a member of
        Message 3 of 16 , Oct 16, 2007
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          I recently attended the Wrightstown Renaissance Faire in Wrightstown PA. and
          left my name in a contact book at the SCA tent there. I am not yet a member
          of SCA, but have had a growing interest over the past several years.



          About two weeks later I was VERY pleased to find in my mailbox a welcome
          package from the Shire of Buckland Cross. It included a cover letter from
          the Minister of Arts and Sciences (who I guess acts as their Chatelaine,
          since there is no Chatelaine listed anywhere).



          The packet was chocked full of helpful information including:



          . A two page greeting/cover letter with specific information about
          the next Shire meeting and an invitation to attend

          . A list of Shire officers

          . A SCA membership application

          . A recent issue of the Buckland Cross Arts & Sciences newsletter

          . A printed copy of "Walking With the Tyger (An Introductory Guide
          to the East Kingdom)"

          Incidentally, this guide is available online, but it was nice to get a
          printed copy, it shows thought and effort

          . A printed copy of "Glossary of SCA Jargon (with emphasis on the
          East Kingdom)"

          . A printed copy of "Tin Hats and Fancy Necklaces (A Newcomer's
          Guide to Regalia)"



          I think the welcome package was well thought out and VERY welcoming. In
          addition I got a personal e-mail from the MoAS.



          If you are thinking of developing your own newcomer packet, a great place to
          start would be in contacting the Shire of Buckland Cross.



          (mka) Ken





          From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Selena



          As the new chatelaine in our shire I have a question to ask
          everyone..As a newcomer..what was the most helpful sheets in your
          newcomer packet?..for those that didn't get one, that was the most
          helpful info you were told (besides the just have fun part,lol)?? I am
          putting together packets and would like to include really useful info..

          Yours In Service,
          Madeleine Delacroix
          aka Selena



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • wendy brown
          Dear Countess Dulcia, I very much enjoyed you story here and it helped me alot to know how to introduce family to people in the SCA. I have been attending
          Message 4 of 16 , Oct 16, 2007
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            Dear Countess Dulcia,
            I very much enjoyed you story here and it helped me alot to know how to introduce family to people in the SCA. I have been attending since Feb. 2007 and we love it very much.
            Thank you again for the story and pointers.

            Ælfwynn

            Ælfwynn of Lynford
            Shire of Beau Fort
            Kingdom of Meridies



            ----- Original Message ----
            From: Elizabeth Bair <countessdulcia@...>
            To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 9:54:21 AM
            Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] etiquette of introduction (was: Newcomer info.)

            It would not be offensive in the least. =) The etiquette rule for
            titles is that you used the highest title the person has. Period. If
            you want or need to include other ranks or awards in the introduction,
            you include them AFTER the person's name. Title stacking is
            incorrect, both in period and in the modern world and just sounds
            goofy anyway. We hear it done incorrectly in the SCA so much that
            folks are used to the way it sounds and tend to think that it is
            correct, but when in doubt, try tranferring SCA practices to the
            modern world. For example, Dwight D. Eisenhower. He is referred to
            as "President Eisenhower". .. not "President General Eisenhower"
            which is the modern world equivalent of saying "His Majesty, Sir Stick
            Jock". Or to use a more analogous example - Prince Charles. If we
            used the SCA style of (incorrect) title stacking he would be:
            "Prince, Prince, Duke, Duke, Earl, Earl, Knight, Knight, Baron, Lord
            Charles". While it gets all his titles into the mix, it also doesn't
            really tell you anything much and sounds pretty stupid. If, for
            whatever reason (really formal introduction, heralding someone into a
            tournament, whatever) you wanted to use all of his titles you would
            say: "Prince Charles, By the Grace of God Prince of Wales and
            Scotland, Duke of Rothesay, Duke of Cornwall, Earl of Chester, Earl of
            Carrick, Knight of the Garter, Knight of the Thistle, Baron Renfrew,
            Lord of the Isles, Great Steward of Scotland and Companion of the
            Order of Merit." That's actually the format that is used today and
            should be used in the SCA as well. So instead of "Duke Sir Big Shot"
            you might say "Duke Big Shot, Knight of the SCA, Companion of the
            Order of the Fuzzy Mugwhumps, Defender of the Barony of Nowhereville,
            Protector of small furry creatures and drainer of many kegs of beer",
            which is a LOT more entertaining, provides more useful information
            about him to those who didn't know much about it and is more period
            correct. But in an introduction, you simply say "Duke Big Shot" if
            that's all you know about him, or maybe "Duke Bigshot, who has a soft
            spot for small furry creatures".

            Introductions are unique in that you are introducing people for a
            reason and your intoduction should encompass that reason. If you are
            introducing someone to someone who may be able to help them in some
            way (teach them to fight, teach them costuming, sponsor them in
            entering a tournament or contest, or whatever else) you should include
            that information in the introduction - "Countess Dulcia, may I present
            Lord Rapier Dude from my group who would like very much to participate
            in the Order of the Rose Lyste, if you are not already sponsoring a
            fighter." If the purpose of the introduction is to introduce people
            you like to each other it might be "Lord Good Times, may I present my
            best friend, Eddie? This is his first event but I've told him so much
            about the fun we've had together that he wanted to meet you and hear
            your story about the road trip to Pennsic for himself." If the
            purpose of the introduction is simply to expose someone to people you
            consider important to the group/kingdom/ SCA, then all you need to do
            is say "Your Majesty, may I present my sister Jill?" However, if you
            want them to have something to chat about for a moment, I would
            suggest adding something of a personal nature to the introduction.
            Even high ranking SCAers can be shy and feel awkward about making
            random small talk. Even adding something as simple as "this is her
            first event, she's visiting from kingdom X, she was admiring your
            gown, she just authorized as a fighter, I told her the story about how
            you did ____(some funny or inspiring thing)___" or just about anything
            can provide a platform for a short conversation that might not
            otherwise happen if they are left staring at each other thinking "ok,
            now what?". =)

            Dulcia

            Countess Dulcia MacPherson, OL OR
            Kingdom Hospitaller
            Kingdom of Trimaris

            > That is very helpful thank you. I also have a concern. As someone who is relatively new, I
            > would have no idea what all awards the her Majesty has earned. Would it be acceptable to
            > just introduce her as 'Her Majesty ______' or would that be offensive?
            >
            > Caitrina
            > Barony of Elfsea
            > Kingdom of Ansteorra
            >
            >




            ____________________________________________________________________________________
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Ciaran O'Cainnech
            If you re sending the packets to people without meeting them, a picture of you (a group picture on a title page with a note like I m the thirs from the left )
            Message 5 of 16 , Oct 17, 2007
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              If you're sending the packets to people without meeting them, a picture of
              you (a group picture on a title page with a note like "I'm the thirs from
              the left") would be good so that at that first event they can identify you.
              Other than that, a map showing the local groups and frequently used sites
              and a list of local groups' websites (not just yours).

              YiS,
              Ciaran


              On 10/16/07, Ken Junkins <junkins@...> wrote:
              >
              > I recently attended the Wrightstown Renaissance Faire in Wrightstown PA.
              > and
              > left my name in a contact book at the SCA tent there. I am not yet a
              > member
              > of SCA, but have had a growing interest over the past several years.
              >
              > About two weeks later I was VERY pleased to find in my mailbox a welcome
              > package from the Shire of Buckland Cross. It included a cover letter from
              > the Minister of Arts and Sciences (who I guess acts as their Chatelaine,
              > since there is no Chatelaine listed anywhere).
              >
              > The packet was chocked full of helpful information including:
              >
              > . A two page greeting/cover letter with specific information about
              > the next Shire meeting and an invitation to attend
              >
              > . A list of Shire officers
              >
              > . A SCA membership application
              >
              > . A recent issue of the Buckland Cross Arts & Sciences newsletter
              >
              > . A printed copy of "Walking With the Tyger (An Introductory Guide
              > to the East Kingdom)"
              >
              > Incidentally, this guide is available online, but it was nice to get a
              > printed copy, it shows thought and effort
              >
              > . A printed copy of "Glossary of SCA Jargon (with emphasis on the
              > East Kingdom)"
              >
              > . A printed copy of "Tin Hats and Fancy Necklaces (A Newcomer's
              > Guide to Regalia)"
              >
              > I think the welcome package was well thought out and VERY welcoming. In
              > addition I got a personal e-mail from the MoAS.
              >
              > If you are thinking of developing your own newcomer packet, a great place
              > to
              > start would be in contacting the Shire of Buckland Cross.
              >
              > (mka) Ken
              >
              > From: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com <scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:
              > scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com <scanewcomers%40yahoogroups.com>] On
              > Behalf Of Selena
              >
              > As the new chatelaine in our shire I have a question to ask
              > everyone..As a newcomer..what was the most helpful sheets in your
              > newcomer packet?..for those that didn't get one, that was the most
              > helpful info you were told (besides the just have fun part,lol)?? I am
              > putting together packets and would like to include really useful info..
              >
              > Yours In Service,
              > Madeleine Delacroix
              > aka Selena
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • julian wilson
              Gentles of the List, my Lady and this humble veteran soldier joined the SCA following 4 years re-enacting with a small group concentrating on late-15th Century
              Message 6 of 16 , Oct 18, 2007
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                Gentles of the List,
                my Lady and this humble veteran soldier joined the SCA following 4 years re-enacting with a small group concentrating on late-15th Century England, Normandy, Brittany, & France. In mundane life I have been a serious amateur historian for decades; and my wife is also well-grounded historically - so that - once we had learned, from the available online info, the SCA Modes of Address and General Order of Precedence - we had no problem fitting-in-with the Populace of Insulæ Draconis we have met at the first SCA events we'd been able to attend.

                However, had I not done that online research previous to attending our first SCA Events, - and had we not been so well-grounded historically, - I dare say we would have been really puzzled as to the SCA Etiquette of Introduction and Address.
                However, let me give a recent "newcomer" example from Raglan Ffair III, just past!
                Our adult younger son has been spectating at a number of the medieval events his mother and I have attended, since 2002. But had never been able to take part in any, due to pressure of Work.
                With Raglan Ffair coming up, he delighted us by saying he'd been able to get Leave and would like to come along with us and actually take part at Raglan Ffair!
                Garb wasn't a problem - we were able to equip him with suitable "Gentle" garb from our own Coffers and chests. He was however somewhat concerned about how to talk to everyone - not through shyness, but through not being as grounded in "speaking forsoothly" as my Lady & I routinely converse at SCA events.
                So, we told him not to worry, and once arrived at Raglan Castle, took him around and introduced him formally to all the gentles we knew, as we saw they'd arrived and assumed their Garb, - [including HM King Alaric, Her Grace Duchess Melisende, and at least two past-Viceroys] - and assured him that when addressing anyone we hadn't presented him to, - then "My Lord" and "My Lady" would be fine. We also briefed him about white belts & baldrics, and about crowns & circlets.
                Speaking about the Event afterwards, he said he'd felt confident that the formal Intro's and the rest of the briefing would help him avoid making any majorly-embarrassing errors of etiquette, and had quickly felt "at home" using "My Lord" & "My Lady" to all others outside of our immediate aquaintance. Feeling more confident than would otherwise have been the case; - he said he was able to relax; and had enjoyed a wonderful experience.


                YiS,
                Matthew Baker,
                dwelling in "old" Jersey,
                on the Southern Marches of Insulæ Draconis, Kingdom of Drachenwald.





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