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Re: [SCA Newcomers] 15th Century Undergarments for the Excessively Busty Woman

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  • Coblaith Mhuimhneach
    ... Your underwear is your business. But you should be aware that a modern bra may very well single-handedly take your look from pretty realistic to Hello,
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 1, 2007
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      Lady Blue wrote:
      > . . .unless we intend to have a 15th century strip-tease, who's gonna
      > know what is holding up the 'girls'? Victoria has her Secrets, after
      > all...

      Your underwear is your business. But you should be aware that a modern
      bra may very well single-handedly take your look from "pretty
      realistic" to "Hello, twenty-first century!" The silhouettes created
      by various underpinnings are distinctive. (After all, creating the
      "right" silhouette is at least part of their purpose, as any
      Victoria's Secret commercial will tell you.) Even a sports bra doesn't
      give the same shape as a corset or breast-band, as Marie Chantal
      Cadieux illustrates in the diary for her Florentine gown
      <http://cadieux.mediumaevum.com/florentine.html>. (She, of course, is
      not at all top-heavy. The effect would be magnified if she were, or if
      hers were a "lift and separate" bra.) I've been jolted out of reveries
      a couple of times at events by the sight of two "torpedoes" jutting out
      of the front of an otherwise quite authentic-looking tunic or kirtle.
      Shapes you don't notice at the mall become very attention-grabbing when
      they're put in a medieval setting.


      Coblaith Mhuimhneach
      Barony of Bryn Gwlad
      Kingdom of Ansteorra
      <mailto:Coblaith@...>



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    • Bulgarelli Maria
      Personally I wear my regular bra under my garb. Sometimes I wear a strapless bra. But then I purposely cut my garb so I can wear my regular bra or the
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 1, 2007
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        Personally I wear my regular bra under my garb.
        Sometimes I wear a strapless bra. But then I
        purposely cut my garb so I can wear my regular bra or
        the strapless. I just don't wear garb that I can't
        wear a regular bra with. I even wear a regular bra
        with my Kitens and pin the bra strap to the material
        so it doesn't show. There is a way to design garb so
        you can wear a regular bra.

        And being one of the blessed of Boobula I do know the
        problems associated with it.

        Maria
        --- blue family <bluejeanu@...> wrote:

        > At the risk of sounding blasphemous...
        >
        > And being one of the gals also blessed by the
        > BF...
        >
        > Does being "periodically correct" HAVE to go so
        > far as what we wear for, say, 18 Hours? I mean,
        > unless we intend to have a 15th century strip-tease,
        > who's gonna know what is holding up the 'girls'?
        > Victoria has her Secrets, after all...
        >
        > Just a thought :-)
        >
        > Lady Blue
        >
        > Susan Farmer <sfarmer@...> wrote:
        > Quoting Sarah Natividad
        > <sarah.natividad@...>:
        >
        > > I've chosen a time period to research for my
        > persona-- early 15th
        > > century in the Castile/Leon/Portugal area. I'm
        > looking at clothing
        > > styles and wondering how on earth I'm going to be
        > able to wear them.
        > > You see, I'm one of the Blessed Ones of Boobula
        > the Breast Fairy.
        > > There's no way in hell I could go braless and let
        > the dress hold me
        > > up, because there isn't a dress in the universe
        > that could do that. I
        > > have a skinny little waist so anything that laces
        > close to the chest
        > > will fold under in the front without some kind of
        > foundation.
        > >
        >
        > ROTFLOLWTOOME! I feel your pain!
        >
        > I've seen Robin Netherton jump up and down in her
        > Gothic Fitted Dress
        > (aka Cotehardie) and *nothing* moves. A corded
        > corset might work as
        > well. Here's a page that Marie Cadieux put together
        > on "modern bra vs
        > effigy corset vs brest binding"
        > http://cadieux.mediumaevum.com/florentine.html
        >
        > jerusha, one of the Sisters of Saint Boobula ... :-)
        > -----
        > Susan Farmer
        > sfarmer@...
        > Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College
        > Division of Science and Math
        > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network
        > Research Panel today!
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
        > removed]
        >
        >
      • Sarah Natividad
        Waspi-Square: hadn t heard that one before. But yeah, that s about what we re looking at. Not exactly a 28G, but within a couple of numbers and letters of
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 2, 2007
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          Waspi-Square: hadn't heard that one before. But yeah, that's about what
          we're looking at. Not exactly a 28G, but within a couple of numbers and
          letters of that.

          My sister said she'd be willing to help me fit a cotte like the one at
          www.cottesimple.com . I have some nice material that might work well. It
          just might work. But I still wanted to also make a different style of dress
          too, which would require a corset of some kind so that I don't, um, go
          protruding out between the bodice lacings like play-dough being squeezed in
          a sack. I found a picture of a dress I really, really wanted to copy.

          Thanks for all the suggestions! Any and all are welcome, since there's not
          one solution that will work for everything.

          --
          Sarah Natividad
          http://curiousworkmanship.etsy.com
          http://organicbabyfarm.blogspot.com


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        • Sarah Natividad
          I realize that I can get by with a medieval-looking something and a regular bra underneath-- in fact that s what I ll be wearing for the near future. But I d
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 2, 2007
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            I realize that I can get by with a medieval-looking something and a regular
            bra underneath-- in fact that's what I'll be wearing for the near future.
            But I'd really like to work on a full ensemble of totally period stuff. It
            appeals to the geek in me. Also I saw a couple at an event that I went to
            in full, matching, authentic Elizabethan garb, and I was very impressed.
            There were many more people less impressively dressed who were also very
            kind and good and helpful, so I know I don't have to do this. But I want
            to. Ya know? I chose my persona because I really wanted to play her role,
            and having the full costume would really help a lot. I know that when I put
            on my 19th century corset I walked and moved differently, and I'd like to
            walk and move the way my persona would have.

            I'm just geeky that way. :)

            Thanks,
            Sarah (now officially Leonor da Costa-- I joined yesterday!)

            --
            Sarah Natividad
            http://curiousworkmanship.etsy.com
            http://organicbabyfarm.blogspot.com


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          • Coblaith Mhuimhneach
            ... I just want to make sure you understand that putting a name on your membership form when you join the S.C.A. doesn t make it in any way official . In
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 6, 2007
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              Sarah wrote:
              > I've chosen a time period to research for my persona-- early 15th
              > century in the Castile/Leon/Portugal area

              and later signed a post with the comment:
              > . . .now officially Leonor da Costa-- I joined yesterday!

              I just want to make sure you understand that putting a name on your
              membership form when you join the S.C.A. doesn't make it in any way
              "official". In order to make it your name-of-record within the
              Society, reserve it for your use alone, and in some kingdoms make it
              eligible for use on official award scrolls, you have to register it
              with the College of Arms. The details of the submission process vary
              from kingdom to kingdom and, since you didn't mention which one you're
              in (naughty, naughty!) I can't tell you exactly how to go about it, but
              your branch herald can. (If you don't have a herald handy, you should
              be able to find more info on your kingdom website.)

              Sarah also wrote:
              > I'd really like to work on a full ensemble of totally period stuff.. .
              > .I know I don't have to do this. But I want to. Ya know? I chose my
              > persona because I really wanted to play her role, and having the full
              > costume would really help a lot.. . .

              I don't know how much authenticity matters to you in areas other than
              clothing, but I thought I'd mention something, just in case.

              There was so much interaction between the Spanish and Portuguese in
              period that the combination can probably be registered. But it would
              be better re-creation to use a Portuguese personal name if you're going
              to use a Portuguese byname. ("Lionor" and "Lianor" are among the
              options from your period
              <http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/portuguese/>.) Even if your
              persona spent part of her life in Portugal and part in Castile or Leon,
              it's unlikely she'd have been called by a mixed Portuguese/Spanish name
              <http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/dietmar/hints.html>. It's more likely
              that she'd be, for instance, "Lionor da Costa" in Portugal and "Leonor
              de Portugal"
              <http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/isabella/locative.html> or
              "Leonor Cola"
              <http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/isabella/surnames-other.html>
              or something in Spain.

              Of course, if you've got reliable evidence that "Leonor" was used in
              Portugal, all this is irrelevant to you. I've hardly done extensive
              research on the matter. I just know that the Academy of St. Gabriel
              found none when they investigated the name nine years ago
              <http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/showfinal.cgi?1042>.


              Coblaith Mhuimhneach
              Barony of Bryn Gwlad
              Kingdom of Ansteorra
              <mailto:Coblaith@...>
            • Justinos Tekton called Justin
              ... All correct, but just to clarify... You _can_ still use your chosen name for casual conversation, email, etc., even without it being registered by the
              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 6, 2007
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                On Thursday 06 September 2007 04:06, Coblaith Mhuimhneach wrote:
                > I just want to make sure you understand that putting a name on your
                > membership form when you join the S.C.A. doesn't make it in any way
                > "official".  In order to make it your name-of-record within the
                > Society, reserve it for your use alone, and in some kingdoms make it
                > eligible for use on official award scrolls, you have to register it
                > with the College of Arms.  The details of the submission process vary
                > from kingdom to kingdom and, since you didn't mention which one you're
                > in (naughty, naughty!) I can't tell you exactly how to go about it, but
                > your branch herald can.  (If you don't have a herald handy, you should
                > be able to find more info on your kingdom website.)

                All correct, but just to clarify...

                You _can_ still use your chosen name for casual conversation, email, etc.,
                even without it being registered by the College of Arms, provided it does
                not conflict with a name someone else has already registered. For instance,
                you can't call yourself Justinos Tekton, because I have that one registered
                already. :-)

                Registering a name gives you exclusive rights to it, but it's not required
                prior to beginning to use the name casually.

                Everything Coblaith said is correct; I just wanted to add this extra bit
                of info for you, Sarah.

                Kind regards,

                Justin

                --
                ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                keys fesswise reversed sable.

                Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
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