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Re: [SCA Newcomers] 15th Century Undergarments for the Excessively Busty Woman

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  • blue family
    At the risk of sounding blasphemous... And being one of the gals also blessed by the BF... Does being periodically correct HAVE to go so far as what we wear
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 1, 2007
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      At the risk of sounding blasphemous...

      And being one of the gals also blessed by the BF...

      Does being "periodically correct" HAVE to go so far as what we wear for, say, 18 Hours? I mean, unless we intend to have a 15th century strip-tease, who's gonna know what is holding up the 'girls'? Victoria has her Secrets, after all...

      Just a thought :-)

      Lady Blue

      Susan Farmer <sfarmer@...> wrote:
      Quoting Sarah Natividad <sarah.natividad@...>:

      > I've chosen a time period to research for my persona-- early 15th
      > century in the Castile/Leon/Portugal area. I'm looking at clothing
      > styles and wondering how on earth I'm going to be able to wear them.
      > You see, I'm one of the Blessed Ones of Boobula the Breast Fairy.
      > There's no way in hell I could go braless and let the dress hold me
      > up, because there isn't a dress in the universe that could do that. I
      > have a skinny little waist so anything that laces close to the chest
      > will fold under in the front without some kind of foundation.
      >

      ROTFLOLWTOOME! I feel your pain!

      I've seen Robin Netherton jump up and down in her Gothic Fitted Dress
      (aka Cotehardie) and *nothing* moves. A corded corset might work as
      well. Here's a page that Marie Cadieux put together on "modern bra vs
      effigy corset vs brest binding"
      http://cadieux.mediumaevum.com/florentine.html

      jerusha, one of the Sisters of Saint Boobula ... :-)
      -----
      Susan Farmer
      sfarmer@...
      Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College
      Division of Science and Math
      http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/






      ---------------------------------
      Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today!

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Coblaith Mhuimhneach
      ... Your underwear is your business. But you should be aware that a modern bra may very well single-handedly take your look from pretty realistic to Hello,
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 1, 2007
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        Lady Blue wrote:
        > . . .unless we intend to have a 15th century strip-tease, who's gonna
        > know what is holding up the 'girls'? Victoria has her Secrets, after
        > all...

        Your underwear is your business. But you should be aware that a modern
        bra may very well single-handedly take your look from "pretty
        realistic" to "Hello, twenty-first century!" The silhouettes created
        by various underpinnings are distinctive. (After all, creating the
        "right" silhouette is at least part of their purpose, as any
        Victoria's Secret commercial will tell you.) Even a sports bra doesn't
        give the same shape as a corset or breast-band, as Marie Chantal
        Cadieux illustrates in the diary for her Florentine gown
        <http://cadieux.mediumaevum.com/florentine.html>. (She, of course, is
        not at all top-heavy. The effect would be magnified if she were, or if
        hers were a "lift and separate" bra.) I've been jolted out of reveries
        a couple of times at events by the sight of two "torpedoes" jutting out
        of the front of an otherwise quite authentic-looking tunic or kirtle.
        Shapes you don't notice at the mall become very attention-grabbing when
        they're put in a medieval setting.


        Coblaith Mhuimhneach
        Barony of Bryn Gwlad
        Kingdom of Ansteorra
        <mailto:Coblaith@...>



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bulgarelli Maria
        Personally I wear my regular bra under my garb. Sometimes I wear a strapless bra. But then I purposely cut my garb so I can wear my regular bra or the
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 1, 2007
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          Personally I wear my regular bra under my garb.
          Sometimes I wear a strapless bra. But then I
          purposely cut my garb so I can wear my regular bra or
          the strapless. I just don't wear garb that I can't
          wear a regular bra with. I even wear a regular bra
          with my Kitens and pin the bra strap to the material
          so it doesn't show. There is a way to design garb so
          you can wear a regular bra.

          And being one of the blessed of Boobula I do know the
          problems associated with it.

          Maria
          --- blue family <bluejeanu@...> wrote:

          > At the risk of sounding blasphemous...
          >
          > And being one of the gals also blessed by the
          > BF...
          >
          > Does being "periodically correct" HAVE to go so
          > far as what we wear for, say, 18 Hours? I mean,
          > unless we intend to have a 15th century strip-tease,
          > who's gonna know what is holding up the 'girls'?
          > Victoria has her Secrets, after all...
          >
          > Just a thought :-)
          >
          > Lady Blue
          >
          > Susan Farmer <sfarmer@...> wrote:
          > Quoting Sarah Natividad
          > <sarah.natividad@...>:
          >
          > > I've chosen a time period to research for my
          > persona-- early 15th
          > > century in the Castile/Leon/Portugal area. I'm
          > looking at clothing
          > > styles and wondering how on earth I'm going to be
          > able to wear them.
          > > You see, I'm one of the Blessed Ones of Boobula
          > the Breast Fairy.
          > > There's no way in hell I could go braless and let
          > the dress hold me
          > > up, because there isn't a dress in the universe
          > that could do that. I
          > > have a skinny little waist so anything that laces
          > close to the chest
          > > will fold under in the front without some kind of
          > foundation.
          > >
          >
          > ROTFLOLWTOOME! I feel your pain!
          >
          > I've seen Robin Netherton jump up and down in her
          > Gothic Fitted Dress
          > (aka Cotehardie) and *nothing* moves. A corded
          > corset might work as
          > well. Here's a page that Marie Cadieux put together
          > on "modern bra vs
          > effigy corset vs brest binding"
          > http://cadieux.mediumaevum.com/florentine.html
          >
          > jerusha, one of the Sisters of Saint Boobula ... :-)
          > -----
          > Susan Farmer
          > sfarmer@...
          > Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College
          > Division of Science and Math
          > http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network
          > Research Panel today!
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been
          > removed]
          >
          >
        • Sarah Natividad
          Waspi-Square: hadn t heard that one before. But yeah, that s about what we re looking at. Not exactly a 28G, but within a couple of numbers and letters of
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 2, 2007
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            Waspi-Square: hadn't heard that one before. But yeah, that's about what
            we're looking at. Not exactly a 28G, but within a couple of numbers and
            letters of that.

            My sister said she'd be willing to help me fit a cotte like the one at
            www.cottesimple.com . I have some nice material that might work well. It
            just might work. But I still wanted to also make a different style of dress
            too, which would require a corset of some kind so that I don't, um, go
            protruding out between the bodice lacings like play-dough being squeezed in
            a sack. I found a picture of a dress I really, really wanted to copy.

            Thanks for all the suggestions! Any and all are welcome, since there's not
            one solution that will work for everything.

            --
            Sarah Natividad
            http://curiousworkmanship.etsy.com
            http://organicbabyfarm.blogspot.com


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Sarah Natividad
            I realize that I can get by with a medieval-looking something and a regular bra underneath-- in fact that s what I ll be wearing for the near future. But I d
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 2, 2007
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              I realize that I can get by with a medieval-looking something and a regular
              bra underneath-- in fact that's what I'll be wearing for the near future.
              But I'd really like to work on a full ensemble of totally period stuff. It
              appeals to the geek in me. Also I saw a couple at an event that I went to
              in full, matching, authentic Elizabethan garb, and I was very impressed.
              There were many more people less impressively dressed who were also very
              kind and good and helpful, so I know I don't have to do this. But I want
              to. Ya know? I chose my persona because I really wanted to play her role,
              and having the full costume would really help a lot. I know that when I put
              on my 19th century corset I walked and moved differently, and I'd like to
              walk and move the way my persona would have.

              I'm just geeky that way. :)

              Thanks,
              Sarah (now officially Leonor da Costa-- I joined yesterday!)

              --
              Sarah Natividad
              http://curiousworkmanship.etsy.com
              http://organicbabyfarm.blogspot.com


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Coblaith Mhuimhneach
              ... I just want to make sure you understand that putting a name on your membership form when you join the S.C.A. doesn t make it in any way official . In
              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 6, 2007
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                Sarah wrote:
                > I've chosen a time period to research for my persona-- early 15th
                > century in the Castile/Leon/Portugal area

                and later signed a post with the comment:
                > . . .now officially Leonor da Costa-- I joined yesterday!

                I just want to make sure you understand that putting a name on your
                membership form when you join the S.C.A. doesn't make it in any way
                "official". In order to make it your name-of-record within the
                Society, reserve it for your use alone, and in some kingdoms make it
                eligible for use on official award scrolls, you have to register it
                with the College of Arms. The details of the submission process vary
                from kingdom to kingdom and, since you didn't mention which one you're
                in (naughty, naughty!) I can't tell you exactly how to go about it, but
                your branch herald can. (If you don't have a herald handy, you should
                be able to find more info on your kingdom website.)

                Sarah also wrote:
                > I'd really like to work on a full ensemble of totally period stuff.. .
                > .I know I don't have to do this. But I want to. Ya know? I chose my
                > persona because I really wanted to play her role, and having the full
                > costume would really help a lot.. . .

                I don't know how much authenticity matters to you in areas other than
                clothing, but I thought I'd mention something, just in case.

                There was so much interaction between the Spanish and Portuguese in
                period that the combination can probably be registered. But it would
                be better re-creation to use a Portuguese personal name if you're going
                to use a Portuguese byname. ("Lionor" and "Lianor" are among the
                options from your period
                <http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/portuguese/>.) Even if your
                persona spent part of her life in Portugal and part in Castile or Leon,
                it's unlikely she'd have been called by a mixed Portuguese/Spanish name
                <http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/dietmar/hints.html>. It's more likely
                that she'd be, for instance, "Lionor da Costa" in Portugal and "Leonor
                de Portugal"
                <http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/isabella/locative.html> or
                "Leonor Cola"
                <http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/isabella/surnames-other.html>
                or something in Spain.

                Of course, if you've got reliable evidence that "Leonor" was used in
                Portugal, all this is irrelevant to you. I've hardly done extensive
                research on the matter. I just know that the Academy of St. Gabriel
                found none when they investigated the name nine years ago
                <http://www.panix.com/~gabriel/public-bin/showfinal.cgi?1042>.


                Coblaith Mhuimhneach
                Barony of Bryn Gwlad
                Kingdom of Ansteorra
                <mailto:Coblaith@...>
              • Justinos Tekton called Justin
                ... All correct, but just to clarify... You _can_ still use your chosen name for casual conversation, email, etc., even without it being registered by the
                Message 7 of 12 , Sep 6, 2007
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                  On Thursday 06 September 2007 04:06, Coblaith Mhuimhneach wrote:
                  > I just want to make sure you understand that putting a name on your
                  > membership form when you join the S.C.A. doesn't make it in any way
                  > "official".  In order to make it your name-of-record within the
                  > Society, reserve it for your use alone, and in some kingdoms make it
                  > eligible for use on official award scrolls, you have to register it
                  > with the College of Arms.  The details of the submission process vary
                  > from kingdom to kingdom and, since you didn't mention which one you're
                  > in (naughty, naughty!) I can't tell you exactly how to go about it, but
                  > your branch herald can.  (If you don't have a herald handy, you should
                  > be able to find more info on your kingdom website.)

                  All correct, but just to clarify...

                  You _can_ still use your chosen name for casual conversation, email, etc.,
                  even without it being registered by the College of Arms, provided it does
                  not conflict with a name someone else has already registered. For instance,
                  you can't call yourself Justinos Tekton, because I have that one registered
                  already. :-)

                  Registering a name gives you exclusive rights to it, but it's not required
                  prior to beginning to use the name casually.

                  Everything Coblaith said is correct; I just wanted to add this extra bit
                  of info for you, Sarah.

                  Kind regards,

                  Justin

                  --
                  ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
                  Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
                  Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
                  keys fesswise reversed sable.

                  Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
                  justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
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