- OK now I'm confused. I decided to make a sideless surcote 'cause I was
on a sewing binge and had lots of fabric to play with. My persona
lives in 15th century London, middle class. I started doing some
research on surcotes and all I've read says only queens were wearing
sideless surcotes by the 15th century. Anyone know any different?
I want to add some interesting trim to the outfit (assuming I'm not
told I shouldn't wear it at all) and fur seems to be the trim to use
(fake fur for me of course - never real). I saw a photo on line of one
a lady did with heraldic symbols but since I haven't gotten any
approval from my herald on my strange device I've designed, it seemed
a bit premature to go that route. Any opinions out there on this
- Quoth "jimmielou111":
> OK now I'm confused. I decided to make a sideless surcote 'cause I wasThe section on surcoats in the "Dress Diary of a Novice Medieval
> on a sewing binge and had lots of fabric to play with. My persona
> lives in 15th century London, middle class. I started doing some
> research on surcotes and all I've read says only queens were wearing
> sideless surcotes by the 15th century. Anyone know any different?
Seamstress" says "After further research, I see surcoats were used
mainly by the English and French beginning in the 12th century. As
time progressed, the sideless surcoat was used mainly for ceremonial
purposes by the 15th century."
Some of the comments on this page have further information, and if you
post a comment yourself you can probably find out what the "further
research" the author did was.
vita sine literis mors est
- Vivien Hollingsworth wrote:
> I started doing some research on surcotes and all I've read says onlyYour information is correct. It's generally accepted that the
> queens were wearing sideless surcotes by the 15th century. Anyone know
> any different?
sleeveless surcote emerged in the 12th century and developed into the
sideless surcote thereafter, and that sideless surcotes were no longer
being worn in everyday life by the 15th century. Queens were sometimes
depicted in them in 15th-century works, but their use there was likely
symbolic--a way of telling the viewer that the subject of the work was
royal--rather than a reflection of their actual clothing.
> I saw a photo on line of one a lady did with heraldic symbols butThere is some question as to whether women wore heraldic dresses in
> since I haven't gotten any approval from my herald on my strange
> device I've designed, it seemed a bit premature to go that route. Any
> opinions out there on this particular dress?
period, and if so, whether they wore it only on ceremonial occasions.
There's an excellent discussion of the topic at
Mi-parti surcotes, on the other hand, are widely depicted and were
probably worn popularly. If you want to combine the principal
tinctures of your proposed device in such a fashion (making the
left-hand half of your surcote in one and the right-hand in another),
that would be a plausible choice.
- Check out Spanish clothing from Leonora de Castille if you're
interested in sideless surcoats. There is a drawing of one from an
extant piece in a museum in Madrid that belonged to Leonora de
Here's one a SCAnadian made that I came across today while surfing:
Here is the male version:
Good information on Spanish clothing:
Check with the Medieval Spain Yahoo group for more links and
information. Have fun!
Barony of Stromgard