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Re: [SCA Newcomers] dating kilts (was: Fabric Patterns)

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  • Larry
    When this was thread was fabric patterns I lost intrest altogether. But the acceptability of men wearing skirts on dates concerns me a bit so I will step
    Message 1 of 3 , Jul 2 1:42 PM
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      When this was "thread" was fabric patterns I lost
      intrest altogether. But the acceptability of men
      wearing skirts on dates concerns me a bit so I will
      step back into the "fray".

      Ahnuld is neither Scottish, nor wears a skirt, but an
      earlier topic on Scottish names led me to research and
      whatknot. On one of the pages about ancient Scotland,
      I went tracking and as oft happens, got lost in the
      underbrush, and found a reference to kilts. I thought
      it mentioned something to the effect that kilts as wee
      know them weren't worn until the late 18th or 19th
      century. I'll have to go back and look into them
      again (ACK!)

      I have some very good friends who are from Scotland
      and in discussions about Scotland, Highland games, and
      Irish dancing were often casual conversation topics.
      I once asked the cliche, "What DOES a Scotsman wear
      under his kilt", and was told "Ask Tommy, he'll SHOW
      you, and I doan think you'll ask any more..." so I
      didn't ask, left it alone from then on.

      Another discussion on kilts was how they were made.
      There is a kilt, and a competition kilt. The
      competition kilt had to be a certain density of
      fabric, and a minimum number of pleats. I always
      assumed the criteria for a competition kilt was
      because it had to have a certain authenticity to it.
      As I understand it, the mens and womens kilts are both
      very heavy because of thread counts, and the number of
      folds/pleats in the material.

      This probably adds nothing to the conversation, but
      there may be twisted folk out there, like me, who are
      interested in such arcanum.

      Ahnuld the Woodsman
      San Jose, CA, Mundania

      --- Elizabeth Cember <sapphire_chan@...> wrote:

      > And didn't "plaid" mean "fold" back when?
      >
      > Elspeth
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message ----
      > From: Coblaith Mhuimhneach <Coblaith@...>
      > To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, July 2, 2007 2:56:02 AM
      > Subject: [SCA Newcomers] dating kilts (was: Fabric
      > Patterns)
      >
      > Krezye Padreyk wrote:
      > > The earliest mention of Scottish Kilts was in 1594
      > so kilts are in
      > > fashion with in the SCA time frame though only in
      > the very late period
      > > and only the earliest of kilts.
      >
      > Maria
      > > Isnt' that the formed kilt though. The great kilt
      > was found much
      > > earlier wasn't it? I always thought it was.
      >
      > The garment typically called a "kilt"--the
      > skirt-like article sometimes
      > known as "the small kilt"--didn' t exist until at
      > least the end of the
      > 17th century, according to all the evidence I've
      > ever seen
      > <http://www.reconstr uctinghistory. com/index.
      > php?c=8&d= 117&a=130& w=2>.
      >
      > The garment sometimes called "the great kilt" is
      > more properly known as
      > "the belted plaid". It's not at all skirt-like, but
      > a cloak/blanket
      > with a belt worn over it, the bottom part of which
      > hangs down around
      > the legs. Everything I've seen indicates it was
      > first worn in the late
      > 16th century
      > <http://www.reconstr uctinghistory. com/index. php?
      > c=8&d=117&e= &f=&g=&a= 132&w=2>. The description of
      > Scots in belted
      > plaids in "The Life of Red Hugh O'Donnell",
      > published in 1594, might be
      > the "mention of Scottish Kilts" to which Krezye
      > Padreyk referred.
      >
      > So, if it only becomes a garment when you put a belt
      > on over it, it's
      > appropriate to the tail-end of the S.C.A.'s period.
      > If it's got a
      > waistband, it's not appropriate to any of it.
      >
      > Coblaith Mhuimhneach
      > Barony of Bryn Gwlad
      > Kingdom of Ansteorra
      > <mailto:Coblaith@sbcglobal. net>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • Coblaith Mhuimhneach
      ... Plaid originally meant something between cloak and blanket . Around the middle of the 17th century, some began to use plaid to refer to the patterns
      Message 2 of 3 , Jul 2 3:35 PM
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        I wrote:
        > The garment sometimes called "the great kilt" is more properly known
        > as "the belted plaid". It's not at all skirt-like, but a
        > cloak/blanket with a belt worn over it, the bottom part of which hangs
        > down around the legs. Everything I've seen indicates it was first
        > worn in the late 16th century <http://www.reconstr uctinghistory.
        > com/index. php?c=8&d=117&e= &f=&g=&a= 132&w=2>.

        Elspeth wrote:
        > And didn't "plaid" mean "fold" back when?

        "Plaid" originally meant something between "cloak" and "blanket".
        Around the middle of the 17th century, some began to use "plaid" to
        refer to the patterns woven into the fabric, which 'til then were (and
        today are, in some places) called "tartan". (See the site mentioned
        above for citations.)


        Coblaith Mhuimhneach
        Barony of Bryn Gwlad
        Kingdom of Ansteorra
        <mailto:Coblaith@...>
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