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Re: [SCA Newcomers] beginners' garb

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  • Elizabeth Cember
    http://www.forest.gen.nz/Medieval/articles/Tunics/TUNICS.HTML This version doesn t call for set-in sleeves. For when you ve got time and need the fullness
    Message 1 of 20 , Jun 2, 2007
      http://www.forest.gen.nz/Medieval/articles/Tunics/TUNICS.HTML
      This version doesn't call for set-in sleeves. For when you've got time and need the fullness that the period pattern gives.

      When I do the two final side seams (cuff to hem) I pin starting at the under arm gores and let the cuffs and hem deal with any mistakes I made in cutting.

      Elspeth


      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Bulgarelli Maria <scarlettmb@...>
      And as for the

      sleeves, I like the pattern specifically because I

      don't have to play with set in sleeves. I use this

      when I want garb quick.



      Maria












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    • Elizabeth Cember
      I haven t tried to make a really fitted tunic so the the extra fabric from the gusset has been enough to allow free arm movement and I m not relying on any
      Message 2 of 20 , Jun 2, 2007
        I haven't tried to make a really fitted tunic so the the extra fabric from the gusset has been enough to allow free arm movement and I'm not relying on any bias stretching.

        I'm with you through "attach the sleeve and gusset as one", but I can't quite picture how you're manipulating the fabric for the last seam on a side. I think it's something I'd be able to do by hand, but not by machine. Do you sort of switch from
        1. Putting the sides of the sleeve together to
        2. sewing the gusset to the side of the sleeve that isn't already sewn to the gusset to
        3. sewing the gusset to the side of the body that isn't already sewn to the gusset to
        4. sewing the sides of the body together ?

        http://www.forest.gen.nz/Medieval/articles/garments/bocksten/bocksten.html
        Is one extant tunic with the underarm gussets done as two triangles.

        Elspeth

        "I slept and dreamt that life was joy,
        I woke and saw that life was duty,
        I acted and behold, duty was joy"
        -- Rabinranath Tagore

        ----- Original Message ----
        From: "bronwynmgn@..." <bronwynmgn@...>
        To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2007 8:21:03 AM
        Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] beginners' garb













        In a message dated 6/1/2007 7:36:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

        Coblaith@sbcglobal. net writes:



        <<> Also, sewing the full square gusset onto the sleeve and then setting

        > in the sleeve and sewing around it is far more difficult than doing

        > the gusset as two triangles.



        Actually, that's the one step I don't do the way Stockton does. >>

        and

        <<I'm not aware of any extant medieval tunics with seams in the middle of

        their underarm gussets. Can you point me to information on any?

        Having one would undoubtedly change the way the gusset drapes, and

        might alter the way the sleeve hangs, so I wouldn't want to use them if

        they're a modern invention.>>



        Making the gussets as two triangles with a seam up the diagonal totally

        defeats the purpose of the gusset in any case. Inserting the gusset with the

        bias (the diagonal line) of the fabric where it is gives the garment stretch to

        allow easier movement of the arm. If you have a seam where that bias line

        is, you have removed most if not all of the stretch.



        I have never inset a sleeve on a tunic - it's just not how they are made, as

        far as I can tell. I shape my sleeve piece, sew the complete square gusset

        onto one side where the sleeve will attach to the tunic (so I have a sleeve

        with a little jutting our square on one side), then lay the tunic out flat (no

        side seams sewn at this point), attach the sleeve and gusset as one, and

        then do my side and sleeve seams at the same times. Since it's all geometric,

        if I could do ASCII art I could draw it for you, but I can't.





        Brangwayna Morgan

        Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom

        Lancaster, PA



        ************ ********* ********* ******** See what's free at http://www.aol com.



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      • Emrys Clearwater
        Unfortunately, I believe that was someone else. I am personally from Wolfscairn Shire, and my sister and her friends are from Montaigne du Roi in the Barony of
        Message 3 of 20 , Jun 2, 2007
          Unfortunately, I believe that was someone else.
          I am personally from Wolfscairn Shire, and my sister and her friends are from Montaigne du Roi in the Barony of Darkwood, both in the Principality of The Mists, Kingdom of the west.

          Bulgarelli Maria <scarlettmb@...> wrote: Where exactly are you? Didn't you say Gleann Abhann?
          Give me an idea. I can get in touch with them. I
          have lots of friends who know people over there. I'm
          in Houston so I'm pretty close.

          Maria






          Emrys of Clearwater (Unregistered)
          Wolfscairn, Province of The Mists
          Kingdom of the West

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        • Bulgarelli Maria
          Ok. I looked up all of the groups. The shire at least has an up to date web site. mistsgoldkey@westkingdom.org - is the Principality s Gold Key
          Message 4 of 20 , Jun 2, 2007
            Ok. I looked up all of the groups. The shire at
            least has an up to date web site.

            mistsgoldkey@... - is the Principality's
            Gold Key

            anneofmdr@... - is the Gold key for the
            Barony of Darkwood, of which the canton of Montaigne
            du Roi is a part

            ramsheart@... - is the Chatelaine for the
            Barony of Darkwood.


            --- Emrys Clearwater <emrys_clearwater@...>
            wrote:

            > Unfortunately, I believe that was someone else.
            > I am personally from Wolfscairn Shire, and my sister
            > and her friends are from Montaigne du Roi in the
            > Barony of Darkwood, both in the Principality of The
            > Mists, Kingdom of the west.
            >
            > Bulgarelli Maria <scarlettmb@...> wrote:
            > Where exactly are
            > you? Didn't you say Gleann Abhann?
            > Give me an idea. I can get in touch with them. I
            > have lots of friends who know people over there.
            > I'm
            > in Houston so I'm pretty close.
            >
            > Maria
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Emrys of Clearwater (Unregistered)
            > Wolfscairn, Province of The Mists
            > Kingdom of the West
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with
            > the added security of spyware protection.
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been
            > removed]
            >
            >
          • Bulgarelli Maria
            OOPS. Hit the wrong button there. Ok I m going to start from the beginning. Ok. I looked up all of the groups. The shire at least has an up to date web
            Message 5 of 20 , Jun 2, 2007
              OOPS. Hit the wrong button there.

              Ok I'm going to start from the beginning.

              Ok. I looked up all of the groups. The shire at
              least has an up to date web site.

              mistsgoldkey@... - is the Principality's
              Gold Key

              anneofmdr@... - is the Gold key for the
              Barony of Darkwood, of which the canton of Montaigne
              du Roi is a part

              ramsheart@... - is the Chatelaine for the
              Barony of Darkwood.

              catherine@... - is the Seneschal of Barony of
              Darkwood.

              Ok on to the Shire's officers. The Canton's web site
              has no information on it.

              wolfscairn_seneschal@... is the Seneschal
              Lady Anne of Whaleshaven

              The A&S Minister has a phone number listed. It's the
              only one with a phone number listed. If you wanted to
              call someone I'd say all her first. I'm not going to
              post her number here, but you know how to get to the
              site so get it there. I don't post other people's
              phone numbers without their permission.

              Here's something I found on the Darkwood web site.

              Montaigne du Roi
              (North and West Monterey County - including Seaside)
              Web site: None, but visit them at their Yahoo! Group
              Seneschal: Christophe d'Avignon (his email address is
              christophe@... )
              ** Informational and officers meetings on the 2nd
              Wednesday of the month, 7:00pm, email Christophe for
              info.
              ** Arts & Sciences workshops - 4th Thursday of the
              month, at 7:00pm. Contact Hraefn fram Lindune for
              details.
              ** Fighter practice - Thursdays at 7:00pm, contact
              Badger for information.
              ** Rapier practice - Monday evenings at 7:00pm.
              Contact David Falcone for information.

              Apparently there's a reason the web site wasn't
              complete for the canton.

              Anyway. Hope this information helps you. If you have
              any more needs please feel free to call me or email
              me. My phone number is 281-433-0347.

              Maria
              --- Emrys Clearwater <emrys_clearwater@...>
              wrote:

              > Unfortunately, I believe that was someone else.
              > I am personally from Wolfscairn Shire, and my sister
              > and her friends are from Montaigne du Roi in the
              > Barony of Darkwood, both in the Principality of The
              > Mists, Kingdom of the west.
              >
              > Bulgarelli Maria <scarlettmb@...> wrote:
              > Where exactly are
              > you? Didn't you say Gleann Abhann?
              > Give me an idea. I can get in touch with them. I
              > have lots of friends who know people over there.
              > I'm
              > in Houston so I'm pretty close.
              >
              > Maria
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Emrys of Clearwater (Unregistered)
              > Wolfscairn, Province of The Mists
              > Kingdom of the West
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with
              > the added security of spyware protection.
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              >
              >
            • bronwynmgn@aol.com
              In a message dated 6/2/2007 11:32:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sapphire_chan@yahoo.com writes:
              Message 6 of 20 , Jun 3, 2007
                In a message dated 6/2/2007 11:32:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                sapphire_chan@... writes:

                <<I'm with you through "attach the sleeve and gusset as one", but I can't
                quite picture how you're manipulating the fabric for the last seam on a side. I
                think it's something I'd be able to do by hand, but not by machine. Do you
                sort of switch from
                1. Putting the sides of the sleeve together to
                2. sewing the gusset to the side of the sleeve that isn't already sewn to
                the gusset to
                3. sewing the gusset to the side of the body that isn't already sewn to the
                gusset to
                4. sewing the sides of the body together ?>>

                No.

                If I am using separate pieces for the front and the back, then I sew the
                shoulder seams together first. Then I take each sleeve (open, not sewn
                together) and attach the gusset that goes with it. I then lay out the tunic as a
                single long strip of fabric, not folded over or anything, pin the still open
                sleeves where they need to go, and sew them on. So if you lay the whole thing
                out flat at this point, you have, effectively, a cross with two long arms (the
                front and back) and two short arms (the sleeves). At this point I fold it
                at the shoulder line and close the side seams in one long strip. Starting at
                the gusset and working out to the end of the arm and the end of the skirts
                does work well, that way if you are a little off you just trim the extra before
                hemming. Depending on how big your wrist openings are, it might be a bit
                tricky to do that bit on the sewing machine, but the rest should be fine. I do
                all my sewing by hand (I hate sewing machines, I can't sew a straight line
                with one to save my life), so I don't have a problem with it.
                Does that make any more sense?

                Brangwayna Morgan
                Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                Lancaster, PA




                ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Elizabeth Cember
                My mental image of the process below has only two sides of the gusset attached. When and how do you attach the other sides of the square? Elspeth I slept and
                Message 7 of 20 , Jun 3, 2007
                  My mental image of the process below has only two sides of the gusset attached. When and how do you attach the other sides of the square?

                  Elspeth

                  "I slept and dreamt that life was joy,
                  I woke and saw that life was duty,
                  I acted and behold, duty was joy"
                  -- Rabinranath Tagore

                  ----- Original Message ----
                  From: "bronwynmgn@..." <bronwynmgn@...>

                  If I am using separate pieces for the front and the back, then I sew the

                  shoulder seams together first. Then I take each sleeve (open, not sewn

                  together) and attach the gusset that goes with it. I then lay out the tunic as a

                  single long strip of fabric, not folded over or anything, pin the still open

                  sleeves where they need to go, and sew them on. So if you lay the whole thing

                  out flat at this point, you have, effectively, a cross with two long arms (the

                  front and back) and two short arms (the sleeves). At this point I fold it

                  at the shoulder line and close the side seams in one long strip. Starting at

                  the gusset and working out to the end of the arm and the end of the skirts

                  does work well, that way if you are a little off you just trim the extra before

                  hemming. Depending on how big your wrist openings are, it might be a bit

                  tricky to do that bit on the sewing machine, but the rest should be fine. I do

                  all my sewing by hand (I hate sewing machines, I can't sew a straight line

                  with one to save my life), so I don't have a problem with it.

                  Does that make any more sense?



                  Brangwayna Morgan

                  Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom

                  Lancaster, PA



                  ************ ********* ********* ******** See what's free at http://www.aol com.



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]














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                • Signora Beatrice
                  ... I can t speak for anyone else, but here s my order of doing things: 1) Sew front to back 2) Cut out and face neck (being sure to *not* center the neck on
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jun 4, 2007
                    --- Elizabeth Cember <sapphire_chan@...> wrote:

                    > My mental image of the process below has only two sides of the gusset
                    > attached. When and how do you attach the other sides of the square?
                    >
                    > Elspeth


                    I can't speak for anyone else, but here's my order of doing things:

                    1) Sew front to back
                    2) Cut out and face neck (being sure to *not* center the neck on the
                    shoulder seam, but put it 1/3 to the back and 2/3 to the front for
                    comfort)
                    3) Attach gussets to end of sleeve (forming a little dangle bit on one
                    edge, which continues and elongates the edge that will attach to the body)
                    4) Sew one seam to attach the sleeve and gusset to the body (making sure
                    to center the sleeve, not the whole sleeve-gusset piece, on the shoulder
                    seam)
                    5) Sew triangular gores (2-6, depending on size) together into one big
                    fan shape. To control stretch, I sew the bias of each triangle to the
                    straight grain of the next triangle.
                    6) Sew the two fans of gores (left and right sides) to opposite sides of
                    the body pieces (this winds up one left-back and one front-right (or maybe
                    vice-versa), because of the way I control the fabric). I sew this from
                    the hem up, using the straight edge of one side of the triangles in the
                    fan and matching it up to the straight edge of the bottom of the body of
                    the gown. This way, I don't have to worry about where the top of the gore
                    is going to hit on the body, and my hems come out even every time.
                    **Nota Bene: The advantage to doing this is that, if you use a very
                    consistant seam allowance, you wind up with a very neat point where all
                    the gores come together at a single spot.**
                    7) Sew one really long seam, from cuff to hem, sewing first the sleeve
                    bits together, then the body end of the sleeve to one side of the gusset,
                    then the other side of the gusset to the body of the garment, then down
                    the side of the garment, sewing gores to body parts and finishing at the
                    hem.
                    8) If the cuff end wasn't cut as a selvedge (which I often try to do),
                    fold over and hem the cuff
                    9) Cut off stray triangle points and hem bottom edge.


                    Any questions? I could do some sketches and scan them, if that would help.

                    In Service to Lioncourt Manor and An Tir,
                    Signora Beatrice Domenici della Campana



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                  • bronwynmgn@aol.com
                    In a message dated 6/3/2007 11:11:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sapphire_chan@yahoo.com writes:
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jun 4, 2007
                      In a message dated 6/3/2007 11:11:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                      sapphire_chan@... writes:

                      <<My mental image of the process below has only two sides of the gusset
                      attached. When and how do you attach the other sides of the square?>>

                      The first side is attached when you sew it to the sleeve. The second side
                      is attached when you sew the sleeve-and-gusset to the body of the tunic. The
                      third and fourth sides form parts of the underarm seam and side seam and are
                      done when you close these seams.


                      Brangwayna Morgan
                      Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                      Lancaster, PA



                      ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Elizabeth Cember
                      Sorry. Looked back at the post just now and realized that starting from the gusset can include sewing the gusset. I had originally read it as starting the
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jun 4, 2007
                        Sorry. Looked back at the post just now and realized that "starting from the gusset" can include sewing the gusset. I had originally read it as starting the side seam just under where the gusset was attached to the body.

                        All clear now, and it is just as I thought you were doing.

                        Elspeth

                        "I slept and dreamt that life was joy,
                        I woke and saw that life was duty,
                        I acted and behold, duty was joy"
                        -- Rabinranath Tagore



                        ----- Original Message ----
                        From: "bronwynmgn@..." <bronwynmgn@...>
                        To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Monday, June 4, 2007 5:12:07 PM
                        Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] beginners' garb

                        In a message dated 6/3/2007 11:11:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                        sapphire_chan@ yahoo.com writes:

                        <<My mental image of the process below has only two sides of the gusset
                        attached. When and how do you attach the other sides of the square?>>

                        The first side is attached when you sew it to the sleeve. The second side
                        is attached when you sew the sleeve-and-gusset to the body of the tunic. The
                        third and fourth sides form parts of the underarm seam and side seam and are
                        done when you close these seams.


                        Brangwayna Morgan
                        Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                        Lancaster, PA

                        ************ ********* ********* ******** See what's free at http://www.aol com.

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                      • Coblaith Mhuimhneach
                        In response to a number of recent posts to this list, I d like to make a general observation: It s a very bad idea to send someone else s e-mail address to a
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jun 5, 2007
                          In response to a number of recent posts to this list, I'd like to make
                          a general observation:

                          It's a very bad idea to send someone else's e-mail address to a Yahoo!
                          Group. Spiders harvest from archives, and those whose addresses are so
                          posted may soon be inundated with spam. . .on the order of hundreds of
                          pieces per day. (You may have noticed I include mine in my signature;
                          I received over 3000 pieces of junk today.) Even if they're using an
                          officer address, rather than their personal one, that can completely
                          overwhelm.

                          If you've seen a particular individual's address on a website, it's
                          much better to simply pass on the URL. It is likely protected there,
                          by one piece of careful programming or another, from harvest. And if
                          it's not, you can at least be sure it isn't being exposed in any way to
                          which the individual to whom it belongs has not consented.


                          Coblaith Mhuimhneach
                          Barony of Bryn Gwlad
                          Kingdom of Ansteorra
                          <mailto:Coblaith@...>
                        • Wolfy
                          I m using Gmail... I haven t had a single spam mail for the past... 3-4 month Up to 20 in the past 2 years. If you really have to put in an email use
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jun 5, 2007
                            I'm using Gmail...
                            I haven't had a single spam mail for the past... 3-4 month
                            Up to 20 in the past 2 years.
                            If you really have to put in an email use thisisanemail [ATs] address [DOTs] com
                            I am sure people can read through the square brackets. Bots can't though.

                            And if there is mail on a web page, rest assured that it will get
                            picked up by crawlers.

                            ~Wolfy

                            --
                            The heart has reasons which reason does not know. (Blaise Pascal)

                            On 6/5/07, Coblaith Mhuimhneach <Coblaith@...> wrote:
                            > In response to a number of recent posts to this list, I'd like to make
                            > a general observation:
                            >
                            > It's a very bad idea to send someone else's e-mail address to a Yahoo!
                            > Group. Spiders harvest from archives, and those whose addresses are so
                            > posted may soon be inundated with spam. . .on the order of hundreds of
                            > pieces per day. (You may have noticed I include mine in my signature;
                            > I received over 3000 pieces of junk today.) Even if they're using an
                            > officer address, rather than their personal one, that can completely
                            > overwhelm.
                            >
                            > If you've seen a particular individual's address on a website, it's
                            > much better to simply pass on the URL. It is likely protected there,
                            > by one piece of careful programming or another, from harvest. And if
                            > it's not, you can at least be sure it isn't being exposed in any way to
                            > which the individual to whom it belongs has not consented.
                            >
                            >
                            > Coblaith Mhuimhneach
                            > Barony of Bryn Gwlad
                            > Kingdom of Ansteorra
                            > <mailto:Coblaith@...>
                            >
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