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Re: [SCA Newcomers] beginners' garb

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  • Bulgarelli Maria
    Where exactly are you? Didn t you say Gleann Abhann? Give me an idea. I can get in touch with them. I have lots of friends who know people over there. I m
    Message 1 of 20 , Jun 2, 2007
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      Where exactly are you? Didn't you say Gleann Abhann?
      Give me an idea. I can get in touch with them. I
      have lots of friends who know people over there. I'm
      in Houston so I'm pretty close.

      Maria
      --- emrys_clearwater <emrys_clearwater@...>
      wrote:

      > > First, to address the original question, don't
      > worry about garb at
      > all, email/call the chatelaine of your local group
      > and/or of the group
      > that's holding the event and explain that it's going
      > to be your first
      > event and you have no garb--also mention how many of
      > you there are.
      > My apologies for getting so caught up in the
      > question of making garb
      > that I forgot the best way of getting garb.
      >
      > The website for my area does not list a Chatelaine.
      > I e-mail the
      > Seneschal, but she hasn't gotten back to me. If I
      > don't hear from her
      > soon, is there someone I should contact? Should I
      > try the
      > Principality officers? (Not so much about garb, but
      > about getting
      > ready in general, and all the questions entailed
      > therein)?
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Elizabeth Cember
      http://www.forest.gen.nz/Medieval/articles/Tunics/TUNICS.HTML This version doesn t call for set-in sleeves. For when you ve got time and need the fullness
      Message 2 of 20 , Jun 2, 2007
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        http://www.forest.gen.nz/Medieval/articles/Tunics/TUNICS.HTML
        This version doesn't call for set-in sleeves. For when you've got time and need the fullness that the period pattern gives.

        When I do the two final side seams (cuff to hem) I pin starting at the under arm gores and let the cuffs and hem deal with any mistakes I made in cutting.

        Elspeth


        ----- Original Message ----
        From: Bulgarelli Maria <scarlettmb@...>
        And as for the

        sleeves, I like the pattern specifically because I

        don't have to play with set in sleeves. I use this

        when I want garb quick.



        Maria












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      • Elizabeth Cember
        I haven t tried to make a really fitted tunic so the the extra fabric from the gusset has been enough to allow free arm movement and I m not relying on any
        Message 3 of 20 , Jun 2, 2007
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          I haven't tried to make a really fitted tunic so the the extra fabric from the gusset has been enough to allow free arm movement and I'm not relying on any bias stretching.

          I'm with you through "attach the sleeve and gusset as one", but I can't quite picture how you're manipulating the fabric for the last seam on a side. I think it's something I'd be able to do by hand, but not by machine. Do you sort of switch from
          1. Putting the sides of the sleeve together to
          2. sewing the gusset to the side of the sleeve that isn't already sewn to the gusset to
          3. sewing the gusset to the side of the body that isn't already sewn to the gusset to
          4. sewing the sides of the body together ?

          http://www.forest.gen.nz/Medieval/articles/garments/bocksten/bocksten.html
          Is one extant tunic with the underarm gussets done as two triangles.

          Elspeth

          "I slept and dreamt that life was joy,
          I woke and saw that life was duty,
          I acted and behold, duty was joy"
          -- Rabinranath Tagore

          ----- Original Message ----
          From: "bronwynmgn@..." <bronwynmgn@...>
          To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2007 8:21:03 AM
          Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] beginners' garb













          In a message dated 6/1/2007 7:36:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

          Coblaith@sbcglobal. net writes:



          <<> Also, sewing the full square gusset onto the sleeve and then setting

          > in the sleeve and sewing around it is far more difficult than doing

          > the gusset as two triangles.



          Actually, that's the one step I don't do the way Stockton does. >>

          and

          <<I'm not aware of any extant medieval tunics with seams in the middle of

          their underarm gussets. Can you point me to information on any?

          Having one would undoubtedly change the way the gusset drapes, and

          might alter the way the sleeve hangs, so I wouldn't want to use them if

          they're a modern invention.>>



          Making the gussets as two triangles with a seam up the diagonal totally

          defeats the purpose of the gusset in any case. Inserting the gusset with the

          bias (the diagonal line) of the fabric where it is gives the garment stretch to

          allow easier movement of the arm. If you have a seam where that bias line

          is, you have removed most if not all of the stretch.



          I have never inset a sleeve on a tunic - it's just not how they are made, as

          far as I can tell. I shape my sleeve piece, sew the complete square gusset

          onto one side where the sleeve will attach to the tunic (so I have a sleeve

          with a little jutting our square on one side), then lay the tunic out flat (no

          side seams sewn at this point), attach the sleeve and gusset as one, and

          then do my side and sleeve seams at the same times. Since it's all geometric,

          if I could do ASCII art I could draw it for you, but I can't.





          Brangwayna Morgan

          Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom

          Lancaster, PA



          ************ ********* ********* ******** See what's free at http://www.aol com.



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        • Emrys Clearwater
          Unfortunately, I believe that was someone else. I am personally from Wolfscairn Shire, and my sister and her friends are from Montaigne du Roi in the Barony of
          Message 4 of 20 , Jun 2, 2007
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            Unfortunately, I believe that was someone else.
            I am personally from Wolfscairn Shire, and my sister and her friends are from Montaigne du Roi in the Barony of Darkwood, both in the Principality of The Mists, Kingdom of the west.

            Bulgarelli Maria <scarlettmb@...> wrote: Where exactly are you? Didn't you say Gleann Abhann?
            Give me an idea. I can get in touch with them. I
            have lots of friends who know people over there. I'm
            in Houston so I'm pretty close.

            Maria






            Emrys of Clearwater (Unregistered)
            Wolfscairn, Province of The Mists
            Kingdom of the West

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          • Bulgarelli Maria
            Ok. I looked up all of the groups. The shire at least has an up to date web site. mistsgoldkey@westkingdom.org - is the Principality s Gold Key
            Message 5 of 20 , Jun 2, 2007
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              Ok. I looked up all of the groups. The shire at
              least has an up to date web site.

              mistsgoldkey@... - is the Principality's
              Gold Key

              anneofmdr@... - is the Gold key for the
              Barony of Darkwood, of which the canton of Montaigne
              du Roi is a part

              ramsheart@... - is the Chatelaine for the
              Barony of Darkwood.


              --- Emrys Clearwater <emrys_clearwater@...>
              wrote:

              > Unfortunately, I believe that was someone else.
              > I am personally from Wolfscairn Shire, and my sister
              > and her friends are from Montaigne du Roi in the
              > Barony of Darkwood, both in the Principality of The
              > Mists, Kingdom of the west.
              >
              > Bulgarelli Maria <scarlettmb@...> wrote:
              > Where exactly are
              > you? Didn't you say Gleann Abhann?
              > Give me an idea. I can get in touch with them. I
              > have lots of friends who know people over there.
              > I'm
              > in Houston so I'm pretty close.
              >
              > Maria
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Emrys of Clearwater (Unregistered)
              > Wolfscairn, Province of The Mists
              > Kingdom of the West
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with
              > the added security of spyware protection.
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              >
              >
            • Bulgarelli Maria
              OOPS. Hit the wrong button there. Ok I m going to start from the beginning. Ok. I looked up all of the groups. The shire at least has an up to date web
              Message 6 of 20 , Jun 2, 2007
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                OOPS. Hit the wrong button there.

                Ok I'm going to start from the beginning.

                Ok. I looked up all of the groups. The shire at
                least has an up to date web site.

                mistsgoldkey@... - is the Principality's
                Gold Key

                anneofmdr@... - is the Gold key for the
                Barony of Darkwood, of which the canton of Montaigne
                du Roi is a part

                ramsheart@... - is the Chatelaine for the
                Barony of Darkwood.

                catherine@... - is the Seneschal of Barony of
                Darkwood.

                Ok on to the Shire's officers. The Canton's web site
                has no information on it.

                wolfscairn_seneschal@... is the Seneschal
                Lady Anne of Whaleshaven

                The A&S Minister has a phone number listed. It's the
                only one with a phone number listed. If you wanted to
                call someone I'd say all her first. I'm not going to
                post her number here, but you know how to get to the
                site so get it there. I don't post other people's
                phone numbers without their permission.

                Here's something I found on the Darkwood web site.

                Montaigne du Roi
                (North and West Monterey County - including Seaside)
                Web site: None, but visit them at their Yahoo! Group
                Seneschal: Christophe d'Avignon (his email address is
                christophe@... )
                ** Informational and officers meetings on the 2nd
                Wednesday of the month, 7:00pm, email Christophe for
                info.
                ** Arts & Sciences workshops - 4th Thursday of the
                month, at 7:00pm. Contact Hraefn fram Lindune for
                details.
                ** Fighter practice - Thursdays at 7:00pm, contact
                Badger for information.
                ** Rapier practice - Monday evenings at 7:00pm.
                Contact David Falcone for information.

                Apparently there's a reason the web site wasn't
                complete for the canton.

                Anyway. Hope this information helps you. If you have
                any more needs please feel free to call me or email
                me. My phone number is 281-433-0347.

                Maria
                --- Emrys Clearwater <emrys_clearwater@...>
                wrote:

                > Unfortunately, I believe that was someone else.
                > I am personally from Wolfscairn Shire, and my sister
                > and her friends are from Montaigne du Roi in the
                > Barony of Darkwood, both in the Principality of The
                > Mists, Kingdom of the west.
                >
                > Bulgarelli Maria <scarlettmb@...> wrote:
                > Where exactly are
                > you? Didn't you say Gleann Abhann?
                > Give me an idea. I can get in touch with them. I
                > have lots of friends who know people over there.
                > I'm
                > in Houston so I'm pretty close.
                >
                > Maria
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Emrys of Clearwater (Unregistered)
                > Wolfscairn, Province of The Mists
                > Kingdom of the West
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with
                > the added security of spyware protection.
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                > removed]
                >
                >
              • bronwynmgn@aol.com
                In a message dated 6/2/2007 11:32:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sapphire_chan@yahoo.com writes:
                Message 7 of 20 , Jun 3, 2007
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                  In a message dated 6/2/2007 11:32:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                  sapphire_chan@... writes:

                  <<I'm with you through "attach the sleeve and gusset as one", but I can't
                  quite picture how you're manipulating the fabric for the last seam on a side. I
                  think it's something I'd be able to do by hand, but not by machine. Do you
                  sort of switch from
                  1. Putting the sides of the sleeve together to
                  2. sewing the gusset to the side of the sleeve that isn't already sewn to
                  the gusset to
                  3. sewing the gusset to the side of the body that isn't already sewn to the
                  gusset to
                  4. sewing the sides of the body together ?>>

                  No.

                  If I am using separate pieces for the front and the back, then I sew the
                  shoulder seams together first. Then I take each sleeve (open, not sewn
                  together) and attach the gusset that goes with it. I then lay out the tunic as a
                  single long strip of fabric, not folded over or anything, pin the still open
                  sleeves where they need to go, and sew them on. So if you lay the whole thing
                  out flat at this point, you have, effectively, a cross with two long arms (the
                  front and back) and two short arms (the sleeves). At this point I fold it
                  at the shoulder line and close the side seams in one long strip. Starting at
                  the gusset and working out to the end of the arm and the end of the skirts
                  does work well, that way if you are a little off you just trim the extra before
                  hemming. Depending on how big your wrist openings are, it might be a bit
                  tricky to do that bit on the sewing machine, but the rest should be fine. I do
                  all my sewing by hand (I hate sewing machines, I can't sew a straight line
                  with one to save my life), so I don't have a problem with it.
                  Does that make any more sense?

                  Brangwayna Morgan
                  Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                  Lancaster, PA




                  ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Elizabeth Cember
                  My mental image of the process below has only two sides of the gusset attached. When and how do you attach the other sides of the square? Elspeth I slept and
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jun 3, 2007
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                    My mental image of the process below has only two sides of the gusset attached. When and how do you attach the other sides of the square?

                    Elspeth

                    "I slept and dreamt that life was joy,
                    I woke and saw that life was duty,
                    I acted and behold, duty was joy"
                    -- Rabinranath Tagore

                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: "bronwynmgn@..." <bronwynmgn@...>

                    If I am using separate pieces for the front and the back, then I sew the

                    shoulder seams together first. Then I take each sleeve (open, not sewn

                    together) and attach the gusset that goes with it. I then lay out the tunic as a

                    single long strip of fabric, not folded over or anything, pin the still open

                    sleeves where they need to go, and sew them on. So if you lay the whole thing

                    out flat at this point, you have, effectively, a cross with two long arms (the

                    front and back) and two short arms (the sleeves). At this point I fold it

                    at the shoulder line and close the side seams in one long strip. Starting at

                    the gusset and working out to the end of the arm and the end of the skirts

                    does work well, that way if you are a little off you just trim the extra before

                    hemming. Depending on how big your wrist openings are, it might be a bit

                    tricky to do that bit on the sewing machine, but the rest should be fine. I do

                    all my sewing by hand (I hate sewing machines, I can't sew a straight line

                    with one to save my life), so I don't have a problem with it.

                    Does that make any more sense?



                    Brangwayna Morgan

                    Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom

                    Lancaster, PA



                    ************ ********* ********* ******** See what's free at http://www.aol com.



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]














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                  • Signora Beatrice
                    ... I can t speak for anyone else, but here s my order of doing things: 1) Sew front to back 2) Cut out and face neck (being sure to *not* center the neck on
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jun 4, 2007
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                      --- Elizabeth Cember <sapphire_chan@...> wrote:

                      > My mental image of the process below has only two sides of the gusset
                      > attached. When and how do you attach the other sides of the square?
                      >
                      > Elspeth


                      I can't speak for anyone else, but here's my order of doing things:

                      1) Sew front to back
                      2) Cut out and face neck (being sure to *not* center the neck on the
                      shoulder seam, but put it 1/3 to the back and 2/3 to the front for
                      comfort)
                      3) Attach gussets to end of sleeve (forming a little dangle bit on one
                      edge, which continues and elongates the edge that will attach to the body)
                      4) Sew one seam to attach the sleeve and gusset to the body (making sure
                      to center the sleeve, not the whole sleeve-gusset piece, on the shoulder
                      seam)
                      5) Sew triangular gores (2-6, depending on size) together into one big
                      fan shape. To control stretch, I sew the bias of each triangle to the
                      straight grain of the next triangle.
                      6) Sew the two fans of gores (left and right sides) to opposite sides of
                      the body pieces (this winds up one left-back and one front-right (or maybe
                      vice-versa), because of the way I control the fabric). I sew this from
                      the hem up, using the straight edge of one side of the triangles in the
                      fan and matching it up to the straight edge of the bottom of the body of
                      the gown. This way, I don't have to worry about where the top of the gore
                      is going to hit on the body, and my hems come out even every time.
                      **Nota Bene: The advantage to doing this is that, if you use a very
                      consistant seam allowance, you wind up with a very neat point where all
                      the gores come together at a single spot.**
                      7) Sew one really long seam, from cuff to hem, sewing first the sleeve
                      bits together, then the body end of the sleeve to one side of the gusset,
                      then the other side of the gusset to the body of the garment, then down
                      the side of the garment, sewing gores to body parts and finishing at the
                      hem.
                      8) If the cuff end wasn't cut as a selvedge (which I often try to do),
                      fold over and hem the cuff
                      9) Cut off stray triangle points and hem bottom edge.


                      Any questions? I could do some sketches and scan them, if that would help.

                      In Service to Lioncourt Manor and An Tir,
                      Signora Beatrice Domenici della Campana



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                    • bronwynmgn@aol.com
                      In a message dated 6/3/2007 11:11:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sapphire_chan@yahoo.com writes:
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jun 4, 2007
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                        In a message dated 6/3/2007 11:11:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                        sapphire_chan@... writes:

                        <<My mental image of the process below has only two sides of the gusset
                        attached. When and how do you attach the other sides of the square?>>

                        The first side is attached when you sew it to the sleeve. The second side
                        is attached when you sew the sleeve-and-gusset to the body of the tunic. The
                        third and fourth sides form parts of the underarm seam and side seam and are
                        done when you close these seams.


                        Brangwayna Morgan
                        Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                        Lancaster, PA



                        ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Elizabeth Cember
                        Sorry. Looked back at the post just now and realized that starting from the gusset can include sewing the gusset. I had originally read it as starting the
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jun 4, 2007
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                          Sorry. Looked back at the post just now and realized that "starting from the gusset" can include sewing the gusset. I had originally read it as starting the side seam just under where the gusset was attached to the body.

                          All clear now, and it is just as I thought you were doing.

                          Elspeth

                          "I slept and dreamt that life was joy,
                          I woke and saw that life was duty,
                          I acted and behold, duty was joy"
                          -- Rabinranath Tagore



                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: "bronwynmgn@..." <bronwynmgn@...>
                          To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, June 4, 2007 5:12:07 PM
                          Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] beginners' garb

                          In a message dated 6/3/2007 11:11:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                          sapphire_chan@ yahoo.com writes:

                          <<My mental image of the process below has only two sides of the gusset
                          attached. When and how do you attach the other sides of the square?>>

                          The first side is attached when you sew it to the sleeve. The second side
                          is attached when you sew the sleeve-and-gusset to the body of the tunic. The
                          third and fourth sides form parts of the underarm seam and side seam and are
                          done when you close these seams.


                          Brangwayna Morgan
                          Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                          Lancaster, PA

                          ************ ********* ********* ******** See what's free at http://www.aol com.

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                          ____________________________________________________________________________________
                          Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.
                          http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Coblaith Mhuimhneach
                          In response to a number of recent posts to this list, I d like to make a general observation: It s a very bad idea to send someone else s e-mail address to a
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jun 5, 2007
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                            In response to a number of recent posts to this list, I'd like to make
                            a general observation:

                            It's a very bad idea to send someone else's e-mail address to a Yahoo!
                            Group. Spiders harvest from archives, and those whose addresses are so
                            posted may soon be inundated with spam. . .on the order of hundreds of
                            pieces per day. (You may have noticed I include mine in my signature;
                            I received over 3000 pieces of junk today.) Even if they're using an
                            officer address, rather than their personal one, that can completely
                            overwhelm.

                            If you've seen a particular individual's address on a website, it's
                            much better to simply pass on the URL. It is likely protected there,
                            by one piece of careful programming or another, from harvest. And if
                            it's not, you can at least be sure it isn't being exposed in any way to
                            which the individual to whom it belongs has not consented.


                            Coblaith Mhuimhneach
                            Barony of Bryn Gwlad
                            Kingdom of Ansteorra
                            <mailto:Coblaith@...>
                          • Wolfy
                            I m using Gmail... I haven t had a single spam mail for the past... 3-4 month Up to 20 in the past 2 years. If you really have to put in an email use
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jun 5, 2007
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                              I'm using Gmail...
                              I haven't had a single spam mail for the past... 3-4 month
                              Up to 20 in the past 2 years.
                              If you really have to put in an email use thisisanemail [ATs] address [DOTs] com
                              I am sure people can read through the square brackets. Bots can't though.

                              And if there is mail on a web page, rest assured that it will get
                              picked up by crawlers.

                              ~Wolfy

                              --
                              The heart has reasons which reason does not know. (Blaise Pascal)

                              On 6/5/07, Coblaith Mhuimhneach <Coblaith@...> wrote:
                              > In response to a number of recent posts to this list, I'd like to make
                              > a general observation:
                              >
                              > It's a very bad idea to send someone else's e-mail address to a Yahoo!
                              > Group. Spiders harvest from archives, and those whose addresses are so
                              > posted may soon be inundated with spam. . .on the order of hundreds of
                              > pieces per day. (You may have noticed I include mine in my signature;
                              > I received over 3000 pieces of junk today.) Even if they're using an
                              > officer address, rather than their personal one, that can completely
                              > overwhelm.
                              >
                              > If you've seen a particular individual's address on a website, it's
                              > much better to simply pass on the URL. It is likely protected there,
                              > by one piece of careful programming or another, from harvest. And if
                              > it's not, you can at least be sure it isn't being exposed in any way to
                              > which the individual to whom it belongs has not consented.
                              >
                              >
                              > Coblaith Mhuimhneach
                              > Barony of Bryn Gwlad
                              > Kingdom of Ansteorra
                              > <mailto:Coblaith@...>
                              >
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