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Re: [SCA Newcomers] beginners' garb

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  • Justinos Tekton called Justin
    ... I believe I have a program that turns an image into ASCII art. If you send me a drawing off-list, I can convert it and post it. Alternatively, you could
    Message 1 of 20 , Jun 2, 2007
      On Saturday 02 June 2007 08:21, bronwynmgn@... wrote:
      > Since it's all  geometric,
      > if I could do ASCII art I could draw it for you, but I can't.

      I believe I have a program that turns an image into ASCII art. If you send me
      a drawing off-list, I can convert it and post it. Alternatively, you could
      upload a sketch to the files section for this group.

      Kind regards,

      Justin

      --
      ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
      Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
      Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
      keys fesswise reversed sable.

      Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
      justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
    • Bulgarelli Maria
      Where exactly are you? Didn t you say Gleann Abhann? Give me an idea. I can get in touch with them. I have lots of friends who know people over there. I m
      Message 2 of 20 , Jun 2, 2007
        Where exactly are you? Didn't you say Gleann Abhann?
        Give me an idea. I can get in touch with them. I
        have lots of friends who know people over there. I'm
        in Houston so I'm pretty close.

        Maria
        --- emrys_clearwater <emrys_clearwater@...>
        wrote:

        > > First, to address the original question, don't
        > worry about garb at
        > all, email/call the chatelaine of your local group
        > and/or of the group
        > that's holding the event and explain that it's going
        > to be your first
        > event and you have no garb--also mention how many of
        > you there are.
        > My apologies for getting so caught up in the
        > question of making garb
        > that I forgot the best way of getting garb.
        >
        > The website for my area does not list a Chatelaine.
        > I e-mail the
        > Seneschal, but she hasn't gotten back to me. If I
        > don't hear from her
        > soon, is there someone I should contact? Should I
        > try the
        > Principality officers? (Not so much about garb, but
        > about getting
        > ready in general, and all the questions entailed
        > therein)?
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Elizabeth Cember
        http://www.forest.gen.nz/Medieval/articles/Tunics/TUNICS.HTML This version doesn t call for set-in sleeves. For when you ve got time and need the fullness
        Message 3 of 20 , Jun 2, 2007
          http://www.forest.gen.nz/Medieval/articles/Tunics/TUNICS.HTML
          This version doesn't call for set-in sleeves. For when you've got time and need the fullness that the period pattern gives.

          When I do the two final side seams (cuff to hem) I pin starting at the under arm gores and let the cuffs and hem deal with any mistakes I made in cutting.

          Elspeth


          ----- Original Message ----
          From: Bulgarelli Maria <scarlettmb@...>
          And as for the

          sleeves, I like the pattern specifically because I

          don't have to play with set in sleeves. I use this

          when I want garb quick.



          Maria












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        • Elizabeth Cember
          I haven t tried to make a really fitted tunic so the the extra fabric from the gusset has been enough to allow free arm movement and I m not relying on any
          Message 4 of 20 , Jun 2, 2007
            I haven't tried to make a really fitted tunic so the the extra fabric from the gusset has been enough to allow free arm movement and I'm not relying on any bias stretching.

            I'm with you through "attach the sleeve and gusset as one", but I can't quite picture how you're manipulating the fabric for the last seam on a side. I think it's something I'd be able to do by hand, but not by machine. Do you sort of switch from
            1. Putting the sides of the sleeve together to
            2. sewing the gusset to the side of the sleeve that isn't already sewn to the gusset to
            3. sewing the gusset to the side of the body that isn't already sewn to the gusset to
            4. sewing the sides of the body together ?

            http://www.forest.gen.nz/Medieval/articles/garments/bocksten/bocksten.html
            Is one extant tunic with the underarm gussets done as two triangles.

            Elspeth

            "I slept and dreamt that life was joy,
            I woke and saw that life was duty,
            I acted and behold, duty was joy"
            -- Rabinranath Tagore

            ----- Original Message ----
            From: "bronwynmgn@..." <bronwynmgn@...>
            To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2007 8:21:03 AM
            Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] beginners' garb













            In a message dated 6/1/2007 7:36:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

            Coblaith@sbcglobal. net writes:



            <<> Also, sewing the full square gusset onto the sleeve and then setting

            > in the sleeve and sewing around it is far more difficult than doing

            > the gusset as two triangles.



            Actually, that's the one step I don't do the way Stockton does. >>

            and

            <<I'm not aware of any extant medieval tunics with seams in the middle of

            their underarm gussets. Can you point me to information on any?

            Having one would undoubtedly change the way the gusset drapes, and

            might alter the way the sleeve hangs, so I wouldn't want to use them if

            they're a modern invention.>>



            Making the gussets as two triangles with a seam up the diagonal totally

            defeats the purpose of the gusset in any case. Inserting the gusset with the

            bias (the diagonal line) of the fabric where it is gives the garment stretch to

            allow easier movement of the arm. If you have a seam where that bias line

            is, you have removed most if not all of the stretch.



            I have never inset a sleeve on a tunic - it's just not how they are made, as

            far as I can tell. I shape my sleeve piece, sew the complete square gusset

            onto one side where the sleeve will attach to the tunic (so I have a sleeve

            with a little jutting our square on one side), then lay the tunic out flat (no

            side seams sewn at this point), attach the sleeve and gusset as one, and

            then do my side and sleeve seams at the same times. Since it's all geometric,

            if I could do ASCII art I could draw it for you, but I can't.





            Brangwayna Morgan

            Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom

            Lancaster, PA



            ************ ********* ********* ******** See what's free at http://www.aol com.



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          • Emrys Clearwater
            Unfortunately, I believe that was someone else. I am personally from Wolfscairn Shire, and my sister and her friends are from Montaigne du Roi in the Barony of
            Message 5 of 20 , Jun 2, 2007
              Unfortunately, I believe that was someone else.
              I am personally from Wolfscairn Shire, and my sister and her friends are from Montaigne du Roi in the Barony of Darkwood, both in the Principality of The Mists, Kingdom of the west.

              Bulgarelli Maria <scarlettmb@...> wrote: Where exactly are you? Didn't you say Gleann Abhann?
              Give me an idea. I can get in touch with them. I
              have lots of friends who know people over there. I'm
              in Houston so I'm pretty close.

              Maria






              Emrys of Clearwater (Unregistered)
              Wolfscairn, Province of The Mists
              Kingdom of the West

              ---------------------------------
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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Bulgarelli Maria
              Ok. I looked up all of the groups. The shire at least has an up to date web site. mistsgoldkey@westkingdom.org - is the Principality s Gold Key
              Message 6 of 20 , Jun 2, 2007
                Ok. I looked up all of the groups. The shire at
                least has an up to date web site.

                mistsgoldkey@... - is the Principality's
                Gold Key

                anneofmdr@... - is the Gold key for the
                Barony of Darkwood, of which the canton of Montaigne
                du Roi is a part

                ramsheart@... - is the Chatelaine for the
                Barony of Darkwood.


                --- Emrys Clearwater <emrys_clearwater@...>
                wrote:

                > Unfortunately, I believe that was someone else.
                > I am personally from Wolfscairn Shire, and my sister
                > and her friends are from Montaigne du Roi in the
                > Barony of Darkwood, both in the Principality of The
                > Mists, Kingdom of the west.
                >
                > Bulgarelli Maria <scarlettmb@...> wrote:
                > Where exactly are
                > you? Didn't you say Gleann Abhann?
                > Give me an idea. I can get in touch with them. I
                > have lots of friends who know people over there.
                > I'm
                > in Houston so I'm pretty close.
                >
                > Maria
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Emrys of Clearwater (Unregistered)
                > Wolfscairn, Province of The Mists
                > Kingdom of the West
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with
                > the added security of spyware protection.
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                > removed]
                >
                >
              • Bulgarelli Maria
                OOPS. Hit the wrong button there. Ok I m going to start from the beginning. Ok. I looked up all of the groups. The shire at least has an up to date web
                Message 7 of 20 , Jun 2, 2007
                  OOPS. Hit the wrong button there.

                  Ok I'm going to start from the beginning.

                  Ok. I looked up all of the groups. The shire at
                  least has an up to date web site.

                  mistsgoldkey@... - is the Principality's
                  Gold Key

                  anneofmdr@... - is the Gold key for the
                  Barony of Darkwood, of which the canton of Montaigne
                  du Roi is a part

                  ramsheart@... - is the Chatelaine for the
                  Barony of Darkwood.

                  catherine@... - is the Seneschal of Barony of
                  Darkwood.

                  Ok on to the Shire's officers. The Canton's web site
                  has no information on it.

                  wolfscairn_seneschal@... is the Seneschal
                  Lady Anne of Whaleshaven

                  The A&S Minister has a phone number listed. It's the
                  only one with a phone number listed. If you wanted to
                  call someone I'd say all her first. I'm not going to
                  post her number here, but you know how to get to the
                  site so get it there. I don't post other people's
                  phone numbers without their permission.

                  Here's something I found on the Darkwood web site.

                  Montaigne du Roi
                  (North and West Monterey County - including Seaside)
                  Web site: None, but visit them at their Yahoo! Group
                  Seneschal: Christophe d'Avignon (his email address is
                  christophe@... )
                  ** Informational and officers meetings on the 2nd
                  Wednesday of the month, 7:00pm, email Christophe for
                  info.
                  ** Arts & Sciences workshops - 4th Thursday of the
                  month, at 7:00pm. Contact Hraefn fram Lindune for
                  details.
                  ** Fighter practice - Thursdays at 7:00pm, contact
                  Badger for information.
                  ** Rapier practice - Monday evenings at 7:00pm.
                  Contact David Falcone for information.

                  Apparently there's a reason the web site wasn't
                  complete for the canton.

                  Anyway. Hope this information helps you. If you have
                  any more needs please feel free to call me or email
                  me. My phone number is 281-433-0347.

                  Maria
                  --- Emrys Clearwater <emrys_clearwater@...>
                  wrote:

                  > Unfortunately, I believe that was someone else.
                  > I am personally from Wolfscairn Shire, and my sister
                  > and her friends are from Montaigne du Roi in the
                  > Barony of Darkwood, both in the Principality of The
                  > Mists, Kingdom of the west.
                  >
                  > Bulgarelli Maria <scarlettmb@...> wrote:
                  > Where exactly are
                  > you? Didn't you say Gleann Abhann?
                  > Give me an idea. I can get in touch with them. I
                  > have lots of friends who know people over there.
                  > I'm
                  > in Houston so I'm pretty close.
                  >
                  > Maria
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Emrys of Clearwater (Unregistered)
                  > Wolfscairn, Province of The Mists
                  > Kingdom of the West
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with
                  > the added security of spyware protection.
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                  > removed]
                  >
                  >
                • bronwynmgn@aol.com
                  In a message dated 6/2/2007 11:32:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sapphire_chan@yahoo.com writes:
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jun 3, 2007
                    In a message dated 6/2/2007 11:32:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                    sapphire_chan@... writes:

                    <<I'm with you through "attach the sleeve and gusset as one", but I can't
                    quite picture how you're manipulating the fabric for the last seam on a side. I
                    think it's something I'd be able to do by hand, but not by machine. Do you
                    sort of switch from
                    1. Putting the sides of the sleeve together to
                    2. sewing the gusset to the side of the sleeve that isn't already sewn to
                    the gusset to
                    3. sewing the gusset to the side of the body that isn't already sewn to the
                    gusset to
                    4. sewing the sides of the body together ?>>

                    No.

                    If I am using separate pieces for the front and the back, then I sew the
                    shoulder seams together first. Then I take each sleeve (open, not sewn
                    together) and attach the gusset that goes with it. I then lay out the tunic as a
                    single long strip of fabric, not folded over or anything, pin the still open
                    sleeves where they need to go, and sew them on. So if you lay the whole thing
                    out flat at this point, you have, effectively, a cross with two long arms (the
                    front and back) and two short arms (the sleeves). At this point I fold it
                    at the shoulder line and close the side seams in one long strip. Starting at
                    the gusset and working out to the end of the arm and the end of the skirts
                    does work well, that way if you are a little off you just trim the extra before
                    hemming. Depending on how big your wrist openings are, it might be a bit
                    tricky to do that bit on the sewing machine, but the rest should be fine. I do
                    all my sewing by hand (I hate sewing machines, I can't sew a straight line
                    with one to save my life), so I don't have a problem with it.
                    Does that make any more sense?

                    Brangwayna Morgan
                    Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                    Lancaster, PA




                    ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Elizabeth Cember
                    My mental image of the process below has only two sides of the gusset attached. When and how do you attach the other sides of the square? Elspeth I slept and
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jun 3, 2007
                      My mental image of the process below has only two sides of the gusset attached. When and how do you attach the other sides of the square?

                      Elspeth

                      "I slept and dreamt that life was joy,
                      I woke and saw that life was duty,
                      I acted and behold, duty was joy"
                      -- Rabinranath Tagore

                      ----- Original Message ----
                      From: "bronwynmgn@..." <bronwynmgn@...>

                      If I am using separate pieces for the front and the back, then I sew the

                      shoulder seams together first. Then I take each sleeve (open, not sewn

                      together) and attach the gusset that goes with it. I then lay out the tunic as a

                      single long strip of fabric, not folded over or anything, pin the still open

                      sleeves where they need to go, and sew them on. So if you lay the whole thing

                      out flat at this point, you have, effectively, a cross with two long arms (the

                      front and back) and two short arms (the sleeves). At this point I fold it

                      at the shoulder line and close the side seams in one long strip. Starting at

                      the gusset and working out to the end of the arm and the end of the skirts

                      does work well, that way if you are a little off you just trim the extra before

                      hemming. Depending on how big your wrist openings are, it might be a bit

                      tricky to do that bit on the sewing machine, but the rest should be fine. I do

                      all my sewing by hand (I hate sewing machines, I can't sew a straight line

                      with one to save my life), so I don't have a problem with it.

                      Does that make any more sense?



                      Brangwayna Morgan

                      Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom

                      Lancaster, PA



                      ************ ********* ********* ******** See what's free at http://www.aol com.



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                    • Signora Beatrice
                      ... I can t speak for anyone else, but here s my order of doing things: 1) Sew front to back 2) Cut out and face neck (being sure to *not* center the neck on
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jun 4, 2007
                        --- Elizabeth Cember <sapphire_chan@...> wrote:

                        > My mental image of the process below has only two sides of the gusset
                        > attached. When and how do you attach the other sides of the square?
                        >
                        > Elspeth


                        I can't speak for anyone else, but here's my order of doing things:

                        1) Sew front to back
                        2) Cut out and face neck (being sure to *not* center the neck on the
                        shoulder seam, but put it 1/3 to the back and 2/3 to the front for
                        comfort)
                        3) Attach gussets to end of sleeve (forming a little dangle bit on one
                        edge, which continues and elongates the edge that will attach to the body)
                        4) Sew one seam to attach the sleeve and gusset to the body (making sure
                        to center the sleeve, not the whole sleeve-gusset piece, on the shoulder
                        seam)
                        5) Sew triangular gores (2-6, depending on size) together into one big
                        fan shape. To control stretch, I sew the bias of each triangle to the
                        straight grain of the next triangle.
                        6) Sew the two fans of gores (left and right sides) to opposite sides of
                        the body pieces (this winds up one left-back and one front-right (or maybe
                        vice-versa), because of the way I control the fabric). I sew this from
                        the hem up, using the straight edge of one side of the triangles in the
                        fan and matching it up to the straight edge of the bottom of the body of
                        the gown. This way, I don't have to worry about where the top of the gore
                        is going to hit on the body, and my hems come out even every time.
                        **Nota Bene: The advantage to doing this is that, if you use a very
                        consistant seam allowance, you wind up with a very neat point where all
                        the gores come together at a single spot.**
                        7) Sew one really long seam, from cuff to hem, sewing first the sleeve
                        bits together, then the body end of the sleeve to one side of the gusset,
                        then the other side of the gusset to the body of the garment, then down
                        the side of the garment, sewing gores to body parts and finishing at the
                        hem.
                        8) If the cuff end wasn't cut as a selvedge (which I often try to do),
                        fold over and hem the cuff
                        9) Cut off stray triangle points and hem bottom edge.


                        Any questions? I could do some sketches and scan them, if that would help.

                        In Service to Lioncourt Manor and An Tir,
                        Signora Beatrice Domenici della Campana



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                      • bronwynmgn@aol.com
                        In a message dated 6/3/2007 11:11:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sapphire_chan@yahoo.com writes:
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jun 4, 2007
                          In a message dated 6/3/2007 11:11:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                          sapphire_chan@... writes:

                          <<My mental image of the process below has only two sides of the gusset
                          attached. When and how do you attach the other sides of the square?>>

                          The first side is attached when you sew it to the sleeve. The second side
                          is attached when you sew the sleeve-and-gusset to the body of the tunic. The
                          third and fourth sides form parts of the underarm seam and side seam and are
                          done when you close these seams.


                          Brangwayna Morgan
                          Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                          Lancaster, PA



                          ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Elizabeth Cember
                          Sorry. Looked back at the post just now and realized that starting from the gusset can include sewing the gusset. I had originally read it as starting the
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jun 4, 2007
                            Sorry. Looked back at the post just now and realized that "starting from the gusset" can include sewing the gusset. I had originally read it as starting the side seam just under where the gusset was attached to the body.

                            All clear now, and it is just as I thought you were doing.

                            Elspeth

                            "I slept and dreamt that life was joy,
                            I woke and saw that life was duty,
                            I acted and behold, duty was joy"
                            -- Rabinranath Tagore



                            ----- Original Message ----
                            From: "bronwynmgn@..." <bronwynmgn@...>
                            To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Monday, June 4, 2007 5:12:07 PM
                            Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] beginners' garb

                            In a message dated 6/3/2007 11:11:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                            sapphire_chan@ yahoo.com writes:

                            <<My mental image of the process below has only two sides of the gusset
                            attached. When and how do you attach the other sides of the square?>>

                            The first side is attached when you sew it to the sleeve. The second side
                            is attached when you sew the sleeve-and-gusset to the body of the tunic. The
                            third and fourth sides form parts of the underarm seam and side seam and are
                            done when you close these seams.


                            Brangwayna Morgan
                            Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                            Lancaster, PA

                            ************ ********* ********* ******** See what's free at http://www.aol com.

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Coblaith Mhuimhneach
                            In response to a number of recent posts to this list, I d like to make a general observation: It s a very bad idea to send someone else s e-mail address to a
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jun 5, 2007
                              In response to a number of recent posts to this list, I'd like to make
                              a general observation:

                              It's a very bad idea to send someone else's e-mail address to a Yahoo!
                              Group. Spiders harvest from archives, and those whose addresses are so
                              posted may soon be inundated with spam. . .on the order of hundreds of
                              pieces per day. (You may have noticed I include mine in my signature;
                              I received over 3000 pieces of junk today.) Even if they're using an
                              officer address, rather than their personal one, that can completely
                              overwhelm.

                              If you've seen a particular individual's address on a website, it's
                              much better to simply pass on the URL. It is likely protected there,
                              by one piece of careful programming or another, from harvest. And if
                              it's not, you can at least be sure it isn't being exposed in any way to
                              which the individual to whom it belongs has not consented.


                              Coblaith Mhuimhneach
                              Barony of Bryn Gwlad
                              Kingdom of Ansteorra
                              <mailto:Coblaith@...>
                            • Wolfy
                              I m using Gmail... I haven t had a single spam mail for the past... 3-4 month Up to 20 in the past 2 years. If you really have to put in an email use
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jun 5, 2007
                                I'm using Gmail...
                                I haven't had a single spam mail for the past... 3-4 month
                                Up to 20 in the past 2 years.
                                If you really have to put in an email use thisisanemail [ATs] address [DOTs] com
                                I am sure people can read through the square brackets. Bots can't though.

                                And if there is mail on a web page, rest assured that it will get
                                picked up by crawlers.

                                ~Wolfy

                                --
                                The heart has reasons which reason does not know. (Blaise Pascal)

                                On 6/5/07, Coblaith Mhuimhneach <Coblaith@...> wrote:
                                > In response to a number of recent posts to this list, I'd like to make
                                > a general observation:
                                >
                                > It's a very bad idea to send someone else's e-mail address to a Yahoo!
                                > Group. Spiders harvest from archives, and those whose addresses are so
                                > posted may soon be inundated with spam. . .on the order of hundreds of
                                > pieces per day. (You may have noticed I include mine in my signature;
                                > I received over 3000 pieces of junk today.) Even if they're using an
                                > officer address, rather than their personal one, that can completely
                                > overwhelm.
                                >
                                > If you've seen a particular individual's address on a website, it's
                                > much better to simply pass on the URL. It is likely protected there,
                                > by one piece of careful programming or another, from harvest. And if
                                > it's not, you can at least be sure it isn't being exposed in any way to
                                > which the individual to whom it belongs has not consented.
                                >
                                >
                                > Coblaith Mhuimhneach
                                > Barony of Bryn Gwlad
                                > Kingdom of Ansteorra
                                > <mailto:Coblaith@...>
                                >
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