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Re: [SCA Newcomers] beginners' garb

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  • Signora Beatrice
    Greetings from Beatrice. Hello and welcome! As you ve seen, the people here are friendly and helpful, and we re glad to have you join! ... You might try
    Message 1 of 20 , Jun 2, 2007
      Greetings from Beatrice.

      Hello and welcome! As you've seen, the people here are friendly and
      helpful, and we're glad to have you join!

      --- emrys_clearwater <emrys_clearwater@...> wrote:

      > The website for my area does not list a Chatelaine. I e-mail the
      > Seneschal, but she hasn't gotten back to me. If I don't hear from her
      > soon, is there someone I should contact? Should I try the
      > Principality officers? (Not so much about garb, but about getting
      > ready in general, and all the questions entailed therein)?

      You might try calling the Seneschal (or, for that matter, any officer who
      has a phone number listed). Phone calls are more personal, and quicker,
      especially if you're concerned about the time to get a reply. In general,
      though, don't call after 9p local time, or before 10a on the weekends.

      Yes, if you're not getting the help you need locally, contact the
      principality officers. You can also generally contact _any_ of the local
      branch officers. Even the ones that aren't directly involved in what you
      need have some knowledge, and may be able to get you more details quicker.
      If the Principality has a Chatelaine (which they should), that person
      should be able to help you with answering questions about local customs
      and such.


      Now I'm going to toss in my two cents on the whole garb issue.

      1) The most important thing is to go to the event and have fun.
      2) More authentic, if it isn't much more work, is better.

      The first thing I _ever_ sewed was a cotehardie out of velvet, using only
      the small diagram from the Known World Handbook as a pattern (pause here
      for all the costumers to wince). These days, I make all my own patterns,
      and to generally period construction, though I sew everything by machine
      (my tendonitis won't allow me to hand sew anything for longer than it
      takes to attach a button).

      As for T-tunics, I'm a HUGE fan of rectangular construction. I use a
      pattern similar to the one that was recommended by another gentle on this
      list, with a few exceptions, tips, and tricks:

      1) I do not use front or back gores, I hate setting them, and even with
      my rather curvateous figure, I can get enough fit with just side gores

      2) I always "face" the neck line (no matter what shape) to give it a
      smooth line. This step is always the FIRST thing I sew after cutting out
      the pieces (the only exception is if I've cut a seperate front and back,
      in which case the shoulder seam is first, then the neck). If you want
      detailed instructions for facing a neck, let me know, I'd be happy to
      provide them (privately or on list).

      3) When sewing the gussets into place under the arms, I do not sew ANY
      seams in the 5/8 inch border of the square. This makes turning the
      corners into their places WAY easier. I stop the needle of my machine 5/8
      of an inch from the end of the piece, leaving the needle in the fabric,
      and rotate everything around till the next segment is lined up.

      4) I sew everything onto the front and back of the tunic, and the last
      seams (other than hem and cuffs) I sew are the side seams, from cuff to
      hem, going around the gusset in the arm and the gores at the sides. This
      eliminates the icky setting into points part that is the whole reason I
      dislike doing front and back gores (these days I _can_ do them, but
      they're still a pain, and I still don't _like_ doing them).


      I was fortunate in that I got a GREAT handout (single sheet) on
      rectangular construction from a Laurel in An Tir (Mistress Fjorlief in
      Haga). I'm willing to share it with individuals (once it's unpacked from
      my move from Oregon to Chicago), but since it's not mine, I will not post
      it to the list.

      Ever since I discovered the joys of rectangular construction, I will NEVER
      go back to the "trace around a button up shirt and jeans" method of making
      tunics.


      In Service to the Dream (and, until recently, to An Tir),
      Signora Beatrice Domenici della Campana, AoA
      Argent, a lion rampant to sinister sable and in chief two roses azure each
      charged with a rose argent
      (fieldless) A rose per pale argent and azure



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    • bronwynmgn@aol.com
      In a message dated 6/1/2007 7:36:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Coblaith@sbcglobal.net writes: Also, sewing the full square gusset onto the sleeve and
      Message 2 of 20 , Jun 2, 2007
        In a message dated 6/1/2007 7:36:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
        Coblaith@... writes:

        <<> Also, sewing the full square gusset onto the sleeve and then setting
        > in the sleeve and sewing around it is far more difficult than doing
        > the gusset as two triangles.

        Actually, that's the one step I don't do the way Stockton does. >>
        and
        <<I'm not aware of any extant medieval tunics with seams in the middle of
        their underarm gussets. Can you point me to information on any?
        Having one would undoubtedly change the way the gusset drapes, and
        might alter the way the sleeve hangs, so I wouldn't want to use them if
        they're a modern invention.>>

        Making the gussets as two triangles with a seam up the diagonal totally
        defeats the purpose of the gusset in any case. Inserting the gusset with the
        bias (the diagonal line) of the fabric where it is gives the garment stretch to
        allow easier movement of the arm. If you have a seam where that bias line
        is, you have removed most if not all of the stretch.

        I have never inset a sleeve on a tunic - it's just not how they are made, as
        far as I can tell. I shape my sleeve piece, sew the complete square gusset
        onto one side where the sleeve will attach to the tunic (so I have a sleeve
        with a little jutting our square on one side), then lay the tunic out flat (no
        side seams sewn at this point), attach the sleeve and gusset as one, and
        then do my side and sleeve seams at the same times. Since it's all geometric,
        if I could do ASCII art I could draw it for you, but I can't.


        Brangwayna Morgan
        Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
        Lancaster, PA



        ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Justinos Tekton called Justin
        ... I believe I have a program that turns an image into ASCII art. If you send me a drawing off-list, I can convert it and post it. Alternatively, you could
        Message 3 of 20 , Jun 2, 2007
          On Saturday 02 June 2007 08:21, bronwynmgn@... wrote:
          > Since it's all  geometric,
          > if I could do ASCII art I could draw it for you, but I can't.

          I believe I have a program that turns an image into ASCII art. If you send me
          a drawing off-list, I can convert it and post it. Alternatively, you could
          upload a sketch to the files section for this group.

          Kind regards,

          Justin

          --
          ()xxxx[]::::::::::::::::::> <::::::::::::::::::[]xxxx()
          Maistor Justinos Tekton called Justin (Scott Courtney)
          Gules, on a bezant a fleam sable and on a chief dovetailed Or two
          keys fesswise reversed sable.

          Marche of Alderford (Canton, Ohio) http://4th.com/sca/justin/
          justin@... PGP Public Key at http://4th.com/keys/justin.pubkey
        • Bulgarelli Maria
          Where exactly are you? Didn t you say Gleann Abhann? Give me an idea. I can get in touch with them. I have lots of friends who know people over there. I m
          Message 4 of 20 , Jun 2, 2007
            Where exactly are you? Didn't you say Gleann Abhann?
            Give me an idea. I can get in touch with them. I
            have lots of friends who know people over there. I'm
            in Houston so I'm pretty close.

            Maria
            --- emrys_clearwater <emrys_clearwater@...>
            wrote:

            > > First, to address the original question, don't
            > worry about garb at
            > all, email/call the chatelaine of your local group
            > and/or of the group
            > that's holding the event and explain that it's going
            > to be your first
            > event and you have no garb--also mention how many of
            > you there are.
            > My apologies for getting so caught up in the
            > question of making garb
            > that I forgot the best way of getting garb.
            >
            > The website for my area does not list a Chatelaine.
            > I e-mail the
            > Seneschal, but she hasn't gotten back to me. If I
            > don't hear from her
            > soon, is there someone I should contact? Should I
            > try the
            > Principality officers? (Not so much about garb, but
            > about getting
            > ready in general, and all the questions entailed
            > therein)?
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Elizabeth Cember
            http://www.forest.gen.nz/Medieval/articles/Tunics/TUNICS.HTML This version doesn t call for set-in sleeves. For when you ve got time and need the fullness
            Message 5 of 20 , Jun 2, 2007
              http://www.forest.gen.nz/Medieval/articles/Tunics/TUNICS.HTML
              This version doesn't call for set-in sleeves. For when you've got time and need the fullness that the period pattern gives.

              When I do the two final side seams (cuff to hem) I pin starting at the under arm gores and let the cuffs and hem deal with any mistakes I made in cutting.

              Elspeth


              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Bulgarelli Maria <scarlettmb@...>
              And as for the

              sleeves, I like the pattern specifically because I

              don't have to play with set in sleeves. I use this

              when I want garb quick.



              Maria












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            • Elizabeth Cember
              I haven t tried to make a really fitted tunic so the the extra fabric from the gusset has been enough to allow free arm movement and I m not relying on any
              Message 6 of 20 , Jun 2, 2007
                I haven't tried to make a really fitted tunic so the the extra fabric from the gusset has been enough to allow free arm movement and I'm not relying on any bias stretching.

                I'm with you through "attach the sleeve and gusset as one", but I can't quite picture how you're manipulating the fabric for the last seam on a side. I think it's something I'd be able to do by hand, but not by machine. Do you sort of switch from
                1. Putting the sides of the sleeve together to
                2. sewing the gusset to the side of the sleeve that isn't already sewn to the gusset to
                3. sewing the gusset to the side of the body that isn't already sewn to the gusset to
                4. sewing the sides of the body together ?

                http://www.forest.gen.nz/Medieval/articles/garments/bocksten/bocksten.html
                Is one extant tunic with the underarm gussets done as two triangles.

                Elspeth

                "I slept and dreamt that life was joy,
                I woke and saw that life was duty,
                I acted and behold, duty was joy"
                -- Rabinranath Tagore

                ----- Original Message ----
                From: "bronwynmgn@..." <bronwynmgn@...>
                To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2007 8:21:03 AM
                Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] beginners' garb













                In a message dated 6/1/2007 7:36:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

                Coblaith@sbcglobal. net writes:



                <<> Also, sewing the full square gusset onto the sleeve and then setting

                > in the sleeve and sewing around it is far more difficult than doing

                > the gusset as two triangles.



                Actually, that's the one step I don't do the way Stockton does. >>

                and

                <<I'm not aware of any extant medieval tunics with seams in the middle of

                their underarm gussets. Can you point me to information on any?

                Having one would undoubtedly change the way the gusset drapes, and

                might alter the way the sleeve hangs, so I wouldn't want to use them if

                they're a modern invention.>>



                Making the gussets as two triangles with a seam up the diagonal totally

                defeats the purpose of the gusset in any case. Inserting the gusset with the

                bias (the diagonal line) of the fabric where it is gives the garment stretch to

                allow easier movement of the arm. If you have a seam where that bias line

                is, you have removed most if not all of the stretch.



                I have never inset a sleeve on a tunic - it's just not how they are made, as

                far as I can tell. I shape my sleeve piece, sew the complete square gusset

                onto one side where the sleeve will attach to the tunic (so I have a sleeve

                with a little jutting our square on one side), then lay the tunic out flat (no

                side seams sewn at this point), attach the sleeve and gusset as one, and

                then do my side and sleeve seams at the same times. Since it's all geometric,

                if I could do ASCII art I could draw it for you, but I can't.





                Brangwayna Morgan

                Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom

                Lancaster, PA



                ************ ********* ********* ******** See what's free at http://www.aol com.



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              • Emrys Clearwater
                Unfortunately, I believe that was someone else. I am personally from Wolfscairn Shire, and my sister and her friends are from Montaigne du Roi in the Barony of
                Message 7 of 20 , Jun 2, 2007
                  Unfortunately, I believe that was someone else.
                  I am personally from Wolfscairn Shire, and my sister and her friends are from Montaigne du Roi in the Barony of Darkwood, both in the Principality of The Mists, Kingdom of the west.

                  Bulgarelli Maria <scarlettmb@...> wrote: Where exactly are you? Didn't you say Gleann Abhann?
                  Give me an idea. I can get in touch with them. I
                  have lots of friends who know people over there. I'm
                  in Houston so I'm pretty close.

                  Maria






                  Emrys of Clearwater (Unregistered)
                  Wolfscairn, Province of The Mists
                  Kingdom of the West

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                • Bulgarelli Maria
                  Ok. I looked up all of the groups. The shire at least has an up to date web site. mistsgoldkey@westkingdom.org - is the Principality s Gold Key
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jun 2, 2007
                    Ok. I looked up all of the groups. The shire at
                    least has an up to date web site.

                    mistsgoldkey@... - is the Principality's
                    Gold Key

                    anneofmdr@... - is the Gold key for the
                    Barony of Darkwood, of which the canton of Montaigne
                    du Roi is a part

                    ramsheart@... - is the Chatelaine for the
                    Barony of Darkwood.


                    --- Emrys Clearwater <emrys_clearwater@...>
                    wrote:

                    > Unfortunately, I believe that was someone else.
                    > I am personally from Wolfscairn Shire, and my sister
                    > and her friends are from Montaigne du Roi in the
                    > Barony of Darkwood, both in the Principality of The
                    > Mists, Kingdom of the west.
                    >
                    > Bulgarelli Maria <scarlettmb@...> wrote:
                    > Where exactly are
                    > you? Didn't you say Gleann Abhann?
                    > Give me an idea. I can get in touch with them. I
                    > have lots of friends who know people over there.
                    > I'm
                    > in Houston so I'm pretty close.
                    >
                    > Maria
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Emrys of Clearwater (Unregistered)
                    > Wolfscairn, Province of The Mists
                    > Kingdom of the West
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with
                    > the added security of spyware protection.
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                    > removed]
                    >
                    >
                  • Bulgarelli Maria
                    OOPS. Hit the wrong button there. Ok I m going to start from the beginning. Ok. I looked up all of the groups. The shire at least has an up to date web
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jun 2, 2007
                      OOPS. Hit the wrong button there.

                      Ok I'm going to start from the beginning.

                      Ok. I looked up all of the groups. The shire at
                      least has an up to date web site.

                      mistsgoldkey@... - is the Principality's
                      Gold Key

                      anneofmdr@... - is the Gold key for the
                      Barony of Darkwood, of which the canton of Montaigne
                      du Roi is a part

                      ramsheart@... - is the Chatelaine for the
                      Barony of Darkwood.

                      catherine@... - is the Seneschal of Barony of
                      Darkwood.

                      Ok on to the Shire's officers. The Canton's web site
                      has no information on it.

                      wolfscairn_seneschal@... is the Seneschal
                      Lady Anne of Whaleshaven

                      The A&S Minister has a phone number listed. It's the
                      only one with a phone number listed. If you wanted to
                      call someone I'd say all her first. I'm not going to
                      post her number here, but you know how to get to the
                      site so get it there. I don't post other people's
                      phone numbers without their permission.

                      Here's something I found on the Darkwood web site.

                      Montaigne du Roi
                      (North and West Monterey County - including Seaside)
                      Web site: None, but visit them at their Yahoo! Group
                      Seneschal: Christophe d'Avignon (his email address is
                      christophe@... )
                      ** Informational and officers meetings on the 2nd
                      Wednesday of the month, 7:00pm, email Christophe for
                      info.
                      ** Arts & Sciences workshops - 4th Thursday of the
                      month, at 7:00pm. Contact Hraefn fram Lindune for
                      details.
                      ** Fighter practice - Thursdays at 7:00pm, contact
                      Badger for information.
                      ** Rapier practice - Monday evenings at 7:00pm.
                      Contact David Falcone for information.

                      Apparently there's a reason the web site wasn't
                      complete for the canton.

                      Anyway. Hope this information helps you. If you have
                      any more needs please feel free to call me or email
                      me. My phone number is 281-433-0347.

                      Maria
                      --- Emrys Clearwater <emrys_clearwater@...>
                      wrote:

                      > Unfortunately, I believe that was someone else.
                      > I am personally from Wolfscairn Shire, and my sister
                      > and her friends are from Montaigne du Roi in the
                      > Barony of Darkwood, both in the Principality of The
                      > Mists, Kingdom of the west.
                      >
                      > Bulgarelli Maria <scarlettmb@...> wrote:
                      > Where exactly are
                      > you? Didn't you say Gleann Abhann?
                      > Give me an idea. I can get in touch with them. I
                      > have lots of friends who know people over there.
                      > I'm
                      > in Houston so I'm pretty close.
                      >
                      > Maria
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Emrys of Clearwater (Unregistered)
                      > Wolfscairn, Province of The Mists
                      > Kingdom of the West
                      >
                      > ---------------------------------
                      > Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with
                      > the added security of spyware protection.
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      > removed]
                      >
                      >
                    • bronwynmgn@aol.com
                      In a message dated 6/2/2007 11:32:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sapphire_chan@yahoo.com writes:
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jun 3, 2007
                        In a message dated 6/2/2007 11:32:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                        sapphire_chan@... writes:

                        <<I'm with you through "attach the sleeve and gusset as one", but I can't
                        quite picture how you're manipulating the fabric for the last seam on a side. I
                        think it's something I'd be able to do by hand, but not by machine. Do you
                        sort of switch from
                        1. Putting the sides of the sleeve together to
                        2. sewing the gusset to the side of the sleeve that isn't already sewn to
                        the gusset to
                        3. sewing the gusset to the side of the body that isn't already sewn to the
                        gusset to
                        4. sewing the sides of the body together ?>>

                        No.

                        If I am using separate pieces for the front and the back, then I sew the
                        shoulder seams together first. Then I take each sleeve (open, not sewn
                        together) and attach the gusset that goes with it. I then lay out the tunic as a
                        single long strip of fabric, not folded over or anything, pin the still open
                        sleeves where they need to go, and sew them on. So if you lay the whole thing
                        out flat at this point, you have, effectively, a cross with two long arms (the
                        front and back) and two short arms (the sleeves). At this point I fold it
                        at the shoulder line and close the side seams in one long strip. Starting at
                        the gusset and working out to the end of the arm and the end of the skirts
                        does work well, that way if you are a little off you just trim the extra before
                        hemming. Depending on how big your wrist openings are, it might be a bit
                        tricky to do that bit on the sewing machine, but the rest should be fine. I do
                        all my sewing by hand (I hate sewing machines, I can't sew a straight line
                        with one to save my life), so I don't have a problem with it.
                        Does that make any more sense?

                        Brangwayna Morgan
                        Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                        Lancaster, PA




                        ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Elizabeth Cember
                        My mental image of the process below has only two sides of the gusset attached. When and how do you attach the other sides of the square? Elspeth I slept and
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jun 3, 2007
                          My mental image of the process below has only two sides of the gusset attached. When and how do you attach the other sides of the square?

                          Elspeth

                          "I slept and dreamt that life was joy,
                          I woke and saw that life was duty,
                          I acted and behold, duty was joy"
                          -- Rabinranath Tagore

                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: "bronwynmgn@..." <bronwynmgn@...>

                          If I am using separate pieces for the front and the back, then I sew the

                          shoulder seams together first. Then I take each sleeve (open, not sewn

                          together) and attach the gusset that goes with it. I then lay out the tunic as a

                          single long strip of fabric, not folded over or anything, pin the still open

                          sleeves where they need to go, and sew them on. So if you lay the whole thing

                          out flat at this point, you have, effectively, a cross with two long arms (the

                          front and back) and two short arms (the sleeves). At this point I fold it

                          at the shoulder line and close the side seams in one long strip. Starting at

                          the gusset and working out to the end of the arm and the end of the skirts

                          does work well, that way if you are a little off you just trim the extra before

                          hemming. Depending on how big your wrist openings are, it might be a bit

                          tricky to do that bit on the sewing machine, but the rest should be fine. I do

                          all my sewing by hand (I hate sewing machines, I can't sew a straight line

                          with one to save my life), so I don't have a problem with it.

                          Does that make any more sense?



                          Brangwayna Morgan

                          Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom

                          Lancaster, PA



                          ************ ********* ********* ******** See what's free at http://www.aol com.



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                        • Signora Beatrice
                          ... I can t speak for anyone else, but here s my order of doing things: 1) Sew front to back 2) Cut out and face neck (being sure to *not* center the neck on
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jun 4, 2007
                            --- Elizabeth Cember <sapphire_chan@...> wrote:

                            > My mental image of the process below has only two sides of the gusset
                            > attached. When and how do you attach the other sides of the square?
                            >
                            > Elspeth


                            I can't speak for anyone else, but here's my order of doing things:

                            1) Sew front to back
                            2) Cut out and face neck (being sure to *not* center the neck on the
                            shoulder seam, but put it 1/3 to the back and 2/3 to the front for
                            comfort)
                            3) Attach gussets to end of sleeve (forming a little dangle bit on one
                            edge, which continues and elongates the edge that will attach to the body)
                            4) Sew one seam to attach the sleeve and gusset to the body (making sure
                            to center the sleeve, not the whole sleeve-gusset piece, on the shoulder
                            seam)
                            5) Sew triangular gores (2-6, depending on size) together into one big
                            fan shape. To control stretch, I sew the bias of each triangle to the
                            straight grain of the next triangle.
                            6) Sew the two fans of gores (left and right sides) to opposite sides of
                            the body pieces (this winds up one left-back and one front-right (or maybe
                            vice-versa), because of the way I control the fabric). I sew this from
                            the hem up, using the straight edge of one side of the triangles in the
                            fan and matching it up to the straight edge of the bottom of the body of
                            the gown. This way, I don't have to worry about where the top of the gore
                            is going to hit on the body, and my hems come out even every time.
                            **Nota Bene: The advantage to doing this is that, if you use a very
                            consistant seam allowance, you wind up with a very neat point where all
                            the gores come together at a single spot.**
                            7) Sew one really long seam, from cuff to hem, sewing first the sleeve
                            bits together, then the body end of the sleeve to one side of the gusset,
                            then the other side of the gusset to the body of the garment, then down
                            the side of the garment, sewing gores to body parts and finishing at the
                            hem.
                            8) If the cuff end wasn't cut as a selvedge (which I often try to do),
                            fold over and hem the cuff
                            9) Cut off stray triangle points and hem bottom edge.


                            Any questions? I could do some sketches and scan them, if that would help.

                            In Service to Lioncourt Manor and An Tir,
                            Signora Beatrice Domenici della Campana



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                          • bronwynmgn@aol.com
                            In a message dated 6/3/2007 11:11:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sapphire_chan@yahoo.com writes:
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jun 4, 2007
                              In a message dated 6/3/2007 11:11:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                              sapphire_chan@... writes:

                              <<My mental image of the process below has only two sides of the gusset
                              attached. When and how do you attach the other sides of the square?>>

                              The first side is attached when you sew it to the sleeve. The second side
                              is attached when you sew the sleeve-and-gusset to the body of the tunic. The
                              third and fourth sides form parts of the underarm seam and side seam and are
                              done when you close these seams.


                              Brangwayna Morgan
                              Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                              Lancaster, PA



                              ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Elizabeth Cember
                              Sorry. Looked back at the post just now and realized that starting from the gusset can include sewing the gusset. I had originally read it as starting the
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jun 4, 2007
                                Sorry. Looked back at the post just now and realized that "starting from the gusset" can include sewing the gusset. I had originally read it as starting the side seam just under where the gusset was attached to the body.

                                All clear now, and it is just as I thought you were doing.

                                Elspeth

                                "I slept and dreamt that life was joy,
                                I woke and saw that life was duty,
                                I acted and behold, duty was joy"
                                -- Rabinranath Tagore



                                ----- Original Message ----
                                From: "bronwynmgn@..." <bronwynmgn@...>
                                To: scanewcomers@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Monday, June 4, 2007 5:12:07 PM
                                Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] beginners' garb

                                In a message dated 6/3/2007 11:11:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                sapphire_chan@ yahoo.com writes:

                                <<My mental image of the process below has only two sides of the gusset
                                attached. When and how do you attach the other sides of the square?>>

                                The first side is attached when you sew it to the sleeve. The second side
                                is attached when you sew the sleeve-and-gusset to the body of the tunic. The
                                third and fourth sides form parts of the underarm seam and side seam and are
                                done when you close these seams.


                                Brangwayna Morgan
                                Shire of Silver Rylle, East Kingdom
                                Lancaster, PA

                                ************ ********* ********* ******** See what's free at http://www.aol com.

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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                              • Coblaith Mhuimhneach
                                In response to a number of recent posts to this list, I d like to make a general observation: It s a very bad idea to send someone else s e-mail address to a
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jun 5, 2007
                                  In response to a number of recent posts to this list, I'd like to make
                                  a general observation:

                                  It's a very bad idea to send someone else's e-mail address to a Yahoo!
                                  Group. Spiders harvest from archives, and those whose addresses are so
                                  posted may soon be inundated with spam. . .on the order of hundreds of
                                  pieces per day. (You may have noticed I include mine in my signature;
                                  I received over 3000 pieces of junk today.) Even if they're using an
                                  officer address, rather than their personal one, that can completely
                                  overwhelm.

                                  If you've seen a particular individual's address on a website, it's
                                  much better to simply pass on the URL. It is likely protected there,
                                  by one piece of careful programming or another, from harvest. And if
                                  it's not, you can at least be sure it isn't being exposed in any way to
                                  which the individual to whom it belongs has not consented.


                                  Coblaith Mhuimhneach
                                  Barony of Bryn Gwlad
                                  Kingdom of Ansteorra
                                  <mailto:Coblaith@...>
                                • Wolfy
                                  I m using Gmail... I haven t had a single spam mail for the past... 3-4 month Up to 20 in the past 2 years. If you really have to put in an email use
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jun 5, 2007
                                    I'm using Gmail...
                                    I haven't had a single spam mail for the past... 3-4 month
                                    Up to 20 in the past 2 years.
                                    If you really have to put in an email use thisisanemail [ATs] address [DOTs] com
                                    I am sure people can read through the square brackets. Bots can't though.

                                    And if there is mail on a web page, rest assured that it will get
                                    picked up by crawlers.

                                    ~Wolfy

                                    --
                                    The heart has reasons which reason does not know. (Blaise Pascal)

                                    On 6/5/07, Coblaith Mhuimhneach <Coblaith@...> wrote:
                                    > In response to a number of recent posts to this list, I'd like to make
                                    > a general observation:
                                    >
                                    > It's a very bad idea to send someone else's e-mail address to a Yahoo!
                                    > Group. Spiders harvest from archives, and those whose addresses are so
                                    > posted may soon be inundated with spam. . .on the order of hundreds of
                                    > pieces per day. (You may have noticed I include mine in my signature;
                                    > I received over 3000 pieces of junk today.) Even if they're using an
                                    > officer address, rather than their personal one, that can completely
                                    > overwhelm.
                                    >
                                    > If you've seen a particular individual's address on a website, it's
                                    > much better to simply pass on the URL. It is likely protected there,
                                    > by one piece of careful programming or another, from harvest. And if
                                    > it's not, you can at least be sure it isn't being exposed in any way to
                                    > which the individual to whom it belongs has not consented.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Coblaith Mhuimhneach
                                    > Barony of Bryn Gwlad
                                    > Kingdom of Ansteorra
                                    > <mailto:Coblaith@...>
                                    >
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