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  • zephyr9903
    Hello, list! I ve just joined the group, and I hope it s not too pushy for a newcomer - but I ve posted scale drawings for the rocket I m trying to figure out
    Message 1 of 17 , Oct 24, 2002
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      Hello, list!

      I've just joined the group, and I hope it's not too pushy for a
      newcomer - but I've posted scale drawings for the rocket I'm trying
      to figure out how to build . . .

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scaleroc/files/marshallstuff/LunaDM.jpg

      Has anyone ever tried something like this?

      Marshall Thayer
      Las Vegas, NV
    • p.mcquillan
      ... to build . . . I d start with a V2 kit myself!! Bit of stretching and you d be most of the way there. MAC
      Message 2 of 17 , Oct 25, 2002
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        >but I've posted scale drawings for the rocket I'm trying to figure out how
        to build . . .


        I'd start with a V2 kit myself!! Bit of stretching and you'd be most of the
        way there.

        MAC
      • Marshall Thayer
        ... to build . . .
        Message 3 of 17 , Oct 25, 2002
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          >> but I've posted scale drawings for the rocket I'm trying to figure out how
          to build . . . <<


          I'd start with a V2 kit myself!! Bit of stretching and you'd be most of the
          way there. <<


          I dunno, MAC - As I found in doing the drawings, there's virtually constant taper along the entire fuselage - no "straight tube section" at all. Maybe formers and a heat-formed plastic-sheet shell? I'd think balsa planking would get awfully heavy -

          Marshall Thayer




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        • Darren J Longhorn
          ... How big are you trying to build it? ... Where did you get the dimensions? In comparison with the Spaceship handbook, you have the overall length the same,
          Message 4 of 17 , Oct 25, 2002
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            > I've just joined the group, and I hope it's not too pushy for a
            > newcomer - but I've posted scale drawings for the rocket I'm trying
            > to figure out how to build . . .
            >
            How big are you trying to build it?

            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scaleroc/files/marshallstuff/LunaDM.jpg
            >
            Where did you get the dimensions? In comparison with the Spaceship handbook, you have the overall length the same, but some of the other dimensions differ slightly.

            I haven't built anything quite like this, but I think I'd build an internal structure, and then slip on an expanded polystyrene shell, shaped with a "hotwire lathe". As in the recent apogee newsletter.

            Cheers


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          • Fehskens, Len
            ... A small straight tube section would probably not be noticeable. My own approach to this design would be to use two Aerotech 2.6 diameter 5:1 ogive
            Message 5 of 17 , Oct 25, 2002
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              > I dunno, MAC - As I found in doing the drawings, there's virtually constant taper along the entire fuselage - no "straight tube section" at all. Maybe formers and a heat-formed plastic-sheet shell? I'd think balsa planking would get awfully heavy -
              >
              A small straight tube section would probably not be noticeable. My own approach to this design would be to use two Aerotech 2.6" diameter 5:1 ogive plastic nose cones with just enough tubing
              to join them robustly. I would use rear ejection. The tail cone exit diameter would be 1.118" if
              exactly scale; this would accommodate a 29mm motor mount tube. Using a BT-5 stuffer tube to
              wrap the recovery system around would give about 1/4" of stowage clearance. A bit tight, but
              doable. If you include the rounding at the tailcone exit as part of the rear ejection unit, you could
              increase the diameter to 1.5" and increase the stowage clearance by almost 3/16".

              A 2.6" diameter model would be 1:76.923. That would make the length 23.4". The 2.6" nose
              cone is 13" long; a 2" or 3" straight section to join the nose cones, and the truncation of the
              aft nosecone to make the tailcone -- it's easily in the ballpark. The liftoff weight would probably
              be compatible with 29mm F or G motors.

              len.
            • Marshall Thayer
              ... I d like to make it fairly large - 2 long or more, and see if I could work out a glide recovery - ... handbook, you have the overall length the same, but
              Message 6 of 17 , Oct 25, 2002
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                >>> How big are you trying to build it? <<<

                I'd like to make it fairly large - 2' long or more, and see if I could work
                out a glide recovery -

                >>> Where did you get the dimensions? In comparison with the Spaceship
                handbook, you have the overall length the same, but some of the other
                dimensions differ slightly.

                One of my movie books referenced the 150' length - I tried to derive the
                other dimensions from photographs. I'd appreciate the corrections, if you
                could - I'd like to be as correct as possible before I start building
                anything.

                Thanks!

                Marshall
              • Jack Hagerty
                On Fri, 25 Oct 2002 04:54:37 -0000 zephyr9903 ... Jim Fackert did a wonderful version of the Luna at a comparatively small scale, using a pair of PNC-55AC
                Message 7 of 17 , Oct 25, 2002
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                  On Fri, 25 Oct 2002 04:54:37 -0000 "zephyr9903"
                  <zephyr9903@...> writes:
                  > Hello, list!
                  >
                  > I've just joined the group, and I hope it's not too pushy for a
                  > newcomer - but I've posted scale drawings for the rocket I'm trying
                  >
                  > to figure out how to build . . .
                  > > Has anyone ever tried something like this?

                  Jim Fackert did a wonderful version of the Luna at a comparatively small
                  scale, using a pair of PNC-55AC nose cones trimmed and joined
                  base-to-base. He published the plans in the March/April '98 issue of
                  Sport Rocketry (page 19), and we reproduced them, with a somewhat
                  shortened article in Appendix B of "Spaceship Handbook" (page B-6).

                  For HP enthusiasts, there's also the two "LUNAR Express" kits from PML,
                  which could be turned into Luna's by leaving off the decals and changing
                  one of the small fins to a ventral jack.

                  - Jack

                  Jack Hagerty, ARA Press (www.arapress.com)
                  ARA #97 // NAR #55105 / LUNAR #2 / TRA #3943 / AeroPAC #168
                  Phone/fax (925) 455-1143
                • Jack Hagerty
                  On Fri, 25 Oct 2002 14:34:24 -0700 Marshall Thayer ... The wings are all the way back at the end like that on the prototype because that s where the really
                  Message 8 of 17 , Oct 25, 2002
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                    On Fri, 25 Oct 2002 14:34:24 -0700 "Marshall Thayer"
                    <zephyr9903@...> writes:
                    > >>> How big are you trying to build it? <<<
                    >
                    > I'd like to make it fairly large - 2' long or more, and see if I
                    > could work out a glide recovery -

                    The wings are all the way back at the end like that on the prototype
                    because that's where the really heavy part (the nuclear reactor) was. The
                    front of the ship was all empty tanks when the ship glides in for a
                    landing. You're going to have a heck of a time getting the glide CG over
                    the wings, and still have it stable for boost.

                    - Jack

                    Jack Hagerty, ARA Press (www.arapress.com)
                    ARA #97 // NAR #55105 / LUNAR #2 / TRA #3943 / AeroPAC #168
                    Phone/fax (925) 455-1143
                  • p.mcquillan
                    ... Now I can go to sleep! Jacks on the case! :) Alex s buddy, MAC
                    Message 9 of 17 , Oct 25, 2002
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                      > You're going to have a heck of a time getting the glide CG over
                      > the wings, and still have it stable for boost.
                      >
                      > - Jack


                      Now I can go to sleep! Jacks on the case! :)

                      Alex's buddy,
                      MAC
                    • Marshall Thayer
                      For HP enthusiasts, there s also the two LUNAR Express kits from PML, which could be turned into Luna s by leaving off the decals and changing one of the
                      Message 10 of 17 , Oct 25, 2002
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                        For HP enthusiasts, there's also the two "LUNAR Express" kits from PML,
                        which could be turned into Luna's by leaving off the decals and changing
                        one of the small fins to a ventral jack.

                        - Jack

                        Answering both of your posts at once, Jack - I realize that the balance thing will be an interesting challenge.

                        I don't think I'm ready to get into HP right away - it's been almost 40 years since I was active in rocket modeling, so I'll just mess around in the lower atmosphere for a while <grin> -

                        Marshall Thayer


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                      • Jack Hagerty
                        On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 02:46:29 +0100 p.mcquillan ... Now I can go to sleep! Jacks on the case! :) Alex s buddy, MAC Thanks, MAC, it s nice to be missed!
                        Message 11 of 17 , Oct 25, 2002
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                          On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 02:46:29 +0100 "p.mcquillan"
                          <p.mcquillan@...> writes:

                          > You're going to have a heck of a time getting the glide CG over
                          > the wings, and still have it stable for boost.
                          >
                          > - Jack


                          Now I can go to sleep! Jacks on the case! :)

                          Alex's buddy,
                          MAC


                          Thanks, MAC, it's nice to be missed! Actually, I've been lurking on this
                          group for over a year, but couldn't post because of the awkward way my
                          mail was set up. I finally bit the bullet and moved my group membership
                          to this account so I can post again.

                          - Jack

                          Jack Hagerty, ARA Press (www.arapress.com)
                          ARA #97 // NAR #55105 / LUNAR #2 / TRA #3943 / AeroPAC #168
                          Phone/fax (925) 455-1143

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Darren J Longhorn
                          ... I don t think you could make it stable in both flight & glide phases very easily. ... The smallest diameter at the base is 72 . The pods are 45 max
                          Message 12 of 17 , Oct 26, 2002
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                            > I'd like to make it fairly large - 2' long or more, and see if I could work
                            > out a glide recovery -
                            >
                            I don't think you could make it stable in both flight & glide phases very easily.

                            > One of my movie books referenced the 150' length - I tried to derive the
                            > other dimensions from photographs. I'd appreciate the corrections, if you
                            > could - I'd like to be as correct as possible before I start building
                            > anything.
                            >
                            The smallest diameter at the base is 72".
                            The pods are 45" max diameter.
                            Body max diameter is 220".
                            Big fins 375" (to center of pods).
                            Small fin 265" (to center of pod).
                            But if you're at all interested in movie rockets, you should buy the book, it's excellent value.




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                          • Marshall Thayer
                            ... it s excellent value.
                            Message 13 of 17 , Oct 26, 2002
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                              > >
                              > The smallest diameter at the base is 72".
                              > The pods are 45" max diameter.
                              > Body max diameter is 220".
                              > Big fins 375" (to center of pods).
                              > Small fin 265" (to center of pod).
                              > But if you're at all interested in movie rockets, you should buy the book,
                              it's excellent value.
                              < <


                              Thanks.

                              If the book includes Captain Video's "Galaxy", it would go straight to the
                              top of my priority list!!!

                              Marshall Thayer
                            • Darren J Longhorn
                              ... There s a Galaxy II. ... Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.401 / Virus
                              Message 14 of 17 , Oct 26, 2002
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                                > If the book includes Captain Video's "Galaxy", it would go straight to the
                                > top of my priority list!!!
                                >
                                There's a Galaxy II.


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                              • Jack Hagerty
                                On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 09:04:03 -0700 Marshall Thayer ... We have the Galaxy II in the book (the original Galaxy no longer exists in any form thanks to the
                                Message 15 of 17 , Oct 26, 2002
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                                  On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 09:04:03 -0700 "Marshall Thayer"
                                  <zephyr9903@...> writes:
                                  > > If the book includes Captain Video's "Galaxy", it would go straight
                                  > to the top of my priority list!!!

                                  We have the "Galaxy II" in the book (the original Galaxy no longer exists
                                  in any form thanks to the DuMont network selling all of their kinescopes
                                  to recover the silver as they were going bankrupt in the mid '50s). Our
                                  data drawing for that entry was reviewed and corrected by Jack McKirgan,
                                  probably the foremost expert on '50s era TV Sci-Fi effects models. It was
                                  also blessed by Rory Coker, who runs the "Roaring Rockets" website
                                  devoted to Space Patrol, Tom Corbett, Capt'n Video, Rocky Jones, etc.

                                  I can give Scaleroc members the same discount that I give NAR and Tripoli
                                  members, 15% off. Just go to the ARA Press website (www.arapress.com) and
                                  on the catalog page, look for the discount button. Follow the
                                  instructions and use the code word "Scaleroc." This goes for the rest of
                                  you as well :-)

                                  - Jack

                                  Jack Hagerty, ARA Press (www.arapress.com)
                                  ARA #97 // NAR #55105 / LUNAR #2 / TRA #3943 / AeroPAC #168
                                  Phone/fax (925) 455-1143
                                • Marshall Thayer
                                  ... As well as my memory serves (I was only ten when the Galaxy I was destroyed), it s not much of a loss; the first version was very plain. Galaxy II had
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Oct 26, 2002
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                                    >> We have the "Galaxy II" in the book (the original Galaxy no longer exists in any form thanks to the DuMont network selling all of their kinescopes <<


                                    As well as my memory serves (I was only ten when the "Galaxy I" was destroyed), it's not much of a loss; the first version was very plain. Galaxy II had some class & flair, though -

                                    My favorite of the Captain Video ships was the "Argo", from the episode about circumnavigating the Universe. The model appeared to be based on a resistance heating coil from one of those old-fashioned floor warmers <grin> . . .

                                    Marshall












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                                  • Fehskens, Len
                                    ... True, though the PML kit uses 4:1 ogive shapes for the nose and tail cones, and has a longer cylindrical section than is scale. What this hobby needs real
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Oct 28, 2002
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                                      Jack Hagerty writes:

                                      >For HP enthusiasts, there's also the two "LUNAR Express" kits from PML,
                                      >which could be turned into Luna's by leaving off the decals and changing
                                      >one of the small fins to a ventral jack.

                                      True, though the PML kit uses 4:1 ogive shapes for the nose and tail cones,
                                      and has a longer cylindrical section than is scale.

                                      What this hobby needs real bad is a relatively inexpensive 4" diameter 5:1
                                      ogive.

                                      len.
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