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Re: [Scaleroc] Huntsville Space & Rocket Center

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  • Jon Davies
    Hi all, I have been looking for these drawings for ages (I saw them once and couldn t find them again). Does anyone know where these can be purchased as the
    Message 1 of 19 , Oct 31, 2007
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      Hi all,
      I have been looking for these drawings for ages (I saw them once and couldn't find them again). Does anyone know where these can be purchased as the ones on this site appear to be too small to be readable.
      Thanks
      Jon

      Keith Frazier <kbfrazier@...> wrote:
      I do know that they have an Army Redstone Intermediate Range Missile. They also have a redstone replica. Not sure if one of the original redstones to be used for the program. I believe the Mercury redstone was just an extention of the Redstone Intermediate Range Missile's fuel tanks. The fins should be the same.

      Someone on ScaleRoc should know if this is correct.

      I'll take a good amount of detail pictures with a ruler to indicate scale. If time permits I'll get measurements of the fin unit.

      David Weeks has a set of prints available.
      http://www.apollosaturn.com/modeling/dwmerc.htm

      Keith

      ----- Original Message ----
      From: "blkgtx@..." <blkgtx@...>
      To: scaleroc@yahoogroups.com
      Cc: kbfrazier <frazier.keith@...>
      Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 7:00:29 PM
      Subject: Re: [Scaleroc] Huntsville Space & Rocket Center

      ---- kbfrazier <frazier.keith@ gmail.com> wrote:
      > For those in interested in the Atlanta are, I will be going to
      > Huntsville to the Space & Rocket Center this Saturday. If anyone would
      > like to tag along please let me know. I'll be leaving around 6:00 am
      > and leave around closing.
      >
      > Tickets to the museum are around $20.
      >
      > My primary interest will be to measure and photograph the following
      > displays: MGM-29 Sergeant and the MIM-23B Improved Hawk.
      >
      > If anyone would like any photographs of any other displays let me know.
      >
      > Keith
      >
      >
      Hi Keith. Do they have a real Mercury Redstone booster there? If so, could you get some detailed dimensions of the fins for me? I have enough info. on the booster except for the fin dimensions I hope to make a nice scale model of it for NARAM.

      Thanks,
      Geoffrey

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    • Scott Breeze
      Keith, I read about your date change after I posted. I too am interested in the MGM-29 Sgt. Missile. Let me know how your trip turns out. Scott To:
      Message 2 of 19 , Oct 31, 2007
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        Keith,
        I read about your date change after I posted.
        I too am interested in the MGM-29 Sgt. Missile.
        Let me know how your trip turns out.
        Scott


        To: scaleroc@yahoogroups.comFrom: kbfrazier@...: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 07:37:53 -0700Subject: Re: [Scaleroc] Re: Huntsville Space & Rocket Center




        Scott,The trip was moved to this weekend due to a conflict with aaSoar launch. Is there a particular display you would like for me to photograph or get measurements from?The main area of interest for me will be the MGM-29 Sergeant and the MIM-23B Improved Hawk missile system.I'm leaving around 6:00 am to head to Huntsville from Atlanta. If you're from the Atlanta area and would like to ride to the Space and Rocket Center let me know.Keith----- Original Message ----From: Seek & Ye Shall Find (or Seek & Destroy) <breeze1913@...>To: scaleroc@yahoogroups.comSent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 1:08:13 AMSubject: [Scaleroc] Re: Huntsville Space & Rocket CenterKeith,Did you make your trip?How did it go?Were you able to collect the data you were after?Thanks,Scott "Breeze"--- In scaleroc@yahoogroup s.com, "kbfrazier" <frazier.keith@ ...> wrote:>> I'm planning a trip to the US Space & Rocket Center to gather some > scale data on the Sergeant and Hawk missile systems for October 20.> > Does anyone have any contacts to the Center that I may be able to talk > to about getting the data that I need? Or maybe staying after hours as > not to inconvenence the croud.> > Thanks,> > Keith Frazier>__________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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      • bobkaplow
        ... get my boss and myself in free on a courtesy discount for being a member of IIRC the Ca Academy of Sciences. (Or maybe the National Air & Space Museum. I
        Message 3 of 19 , Nov 1, 2007
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          --- In scaleroc@yahoogroups.com, "Terry Swift.yahoo.com"
          <terryswift@...> wrote:
          >
          > Note on admission. About 2.5 years ago, I went there and was able to
          get my boss and myself in free on a courtesy discount for being a
          member of IIRC the Ca Academy of Sciences. (Or maybe the National Air
          & Space Museum. I forget which worked.) If you belong to any other
          museums or science associations check your membership info to see if
          they are affiliated or check at the membership window when you get there.

          Good tip. They are on the ASTC list which you can find at
          http://www.astc.org/members/passlist.htm

          We used our Chicago membership at several museums in AZ during our
          NARAM-48 road trip, plus the Boston Museum of Science the year before.
          The only restriction is that it is usually NOT honored within 90 miles
          of your home.
        • Geoffrey
          Nice site but I could not find any dimension info. on the fins. Thanks, Geoffrey ... From: Keith Frazier To: scaleroc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October
          Message 4 of 19 , Nov 1, 2007
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            Nice site but I could not find any dimension info. on the fins.

            Thanks, Geoffrey


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Keith Frazier
            To: scaleroc@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:27 AM
            Subject: Re: [Scaleroc] Huntsville Space & Rocket Center


            Geoffrey,

            Be sure to check out John Pursley site: http://www.accur8.com/.

            He use to produce a beautiful Mercury capsule. Not sure of the scale. I believe he use it as a basis for his Mercury-Redstone models he used for Naram.

            He may have some better detail on the fins.

            Keith

            ----- Original Message ----
            From: "blkgtx@..." <blkgtx@...>
            To: scaleroc@yahoogroups.com
            Cc: kbfrazier <frazier.keith@...>
            Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 7:00:29 PM
            Subject: Re: [Scaleroc] Huntsville Space & Rocket Center

            ---- kbfrazier <frazier.keith@ gmail.com> wrote:
            > For those in interested in the Atlanta are, I will be going to
            > Huntsville to the Space & Rocket Center this Saturday. If anyone would
            > like to tag along please let me know. I'll be leaving around 6:00 am
            > and leave around closing.
            >
            > Tickets to the museum are around $20.
            >
            > My primary interest will be to measure and photograph the following
            > displays: MGM-29 Sergeant and the MIM-23B Improved Hawk.
            >
            > If anyone would like any photographs of any other displays let me know.
            >
            > Keith
            >
            >
            Hi Keith. Do they have a real Mercury Redstone booster there? If so, could you get some detailed dimensions of the fins for me? I have enough info. on the booster except for the fin dimensions I hope to make a nice scale model of it for NARAM.

            Thanks,
            Geoffrey

            __________________________________________________
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Keith Frazier
            Geoffrey, John recently updated his site and took down the Redstone pictures. Hopefully he ll put them back up. E-mail him to check on the status of the site.
            Message 5 of 19 , Nov 1, 2007
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              Geoffrey,

              John recently updated his site and took down the Redstone pictures. Hopefully he'll put them back up.

              E-mail him to check on the status of the site.

              Keith


              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Geoffrey <blkgtx@...>
              To: scaleroc@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2007 3:11:00 PM
              Subject: Re: [Scaleroc] Huntsville Space & Rocket Center

              Nice site but I could not find any dimension info. on the fins.

              Thanks, Geoffrey

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Keith Frazier
              To: scaleroc@yahoogroup s.com
              Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:27 AM
              Subject: Re: [Scaleroc] Huntsville Space & Rocket Center

              Geoffrey,

              Be sure to check out John Pursley site: http://www.accur8. com/.

              He use to produce a beautiful Mercury capsule. Not sure of the scale. I believe he use it as a basis for his Mercury-Redstone models he used for Naram.

              He may have some better detail on the fins.

              Keith

              ----- Original Message ----
              From: "blkgtx@..." <blkgtx@...>
              To: scaleroc@yahoogroup s.com
              Cc: kbfrazier <frazier.keith@ gmail.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 7:00:29 PM
              Subject: Re: [Scaleroc] Huntsville Space & Rocket Center

              ---- kbfrazier <frazier.keith@ gmail.com> wrote:
              > For those in interested in the Atlanta are, I will be going to
              > Huntsville to the Space & Rocket Center this Saturday. If anyone would
              > like to tag along please let me know. I'll be leaving around 6:00 am
              > and leave around closing.
              >
              > Tickets to the museum are around $20.
              >
              > My primary interest will be to measure and photograph the following
              > displays: MGM-29 Sergeant and the MIM-23B Improved Hawk.
              >
              > If anyone would like any photographs of any other displays let me know.
              >
              > Keith
              >
              >
              Hi Keith. Do they have a real Mercury Redstone booster there? If so, could you get some detailed dimensions of the fins for me? I have enough info. on the booster except for the fin dimensions I hope to make a nice scale model of it for NARAM.

              Thanks,
              Geoffrey

              ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
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              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              http://mail.yahoo.com

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            • gcgassaway@aol.com
              ... Hi Keith. Do they have a real Mercury Redstone booster there? If so, could you get some detailed dimensions of the fins for me? I have enough info. on the
              Message 6 of 19 , Nov 1, 2007
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                Geoffrey wrote:

                >>>>>
                Hi Keith. Do they have a real Mercury Redstone booster there? If so, could
                you get some detailed dimensions of the fins for me? I have enough info. on the
                booster except for the fin dimensions I hope to make a nice scale model of it
                for NARAM.
                <<<<<

                The US Space & Rocket Center in Huntsville has three Redstone-based boosters.
                A Redstone missile, Juno-I (Jupiter-C), and Merc-Redstone.

                From what I could tell , they all three have the same valid "Redstone" tail
                sections.

                Here is a pic taken while a friend got a measurement of the gap between the
                tail section and tank assembly:

                http://members.aol.com/GCGassaway/SCALE/otherscale/Datagathering.JPG

                I drew up plans for the Juno-I, based on hands-on measurements of the tail
                section, general but not-detailed drawings, and a 1/96 scale Marshall model
                workshop drawing that obviously had used really solid data circa 1960 that was not
                possible to find by the 1980's. Here are links to gifs of the drawings I
                made.

                http://homepage.mac.com/georgegassaway/assorted/Juno-I.gif

                http://homepage.mac.com/georgegassaway/assorted/Juno-I_tail.gif

                A caveat about the Juno-I and Mercury Redstone up there. The real Juno-I had
                a lengthened tank compared to the Redstone missile. For whatever nutty
                reasons, the Juno-I there has two SHORT tanks from Redstone missiles, which makes
                that Juno ridiculously taller than the real thing (far worse than if they had
                just with a dressed-up Redstone missile with tanks too short). The Juno-I was
                about 70 feet tall, theirs looks like about 90 feet tall compared to the
                Redstone missile near it. It is the "Superroc" of Redstone-missile-based display
                rockets, and totally bogus to make a model of (at least a complete too-long one
                based on the extra tankage).

                Now the good news is that there is a VERY accurate real Juno-I on display at
                the Rocket Park inside of Marshall Space Flight Center a few miles away. The
                bad news is that thanks to Homeland Security you'll probably never get to see
                it other than zipping past the window during a NASA bus tour that does NOT stop
                there (the first ever Saturn-I is also there, the finless prototype).
                Marshall has a double-security whammy not just because it is a NASA facility, but
                even moreso because it is INSIDE of Redstone Arsenal’s security zone, and
                Redstone is an active army base. Actually, I am not even sure if they do the bus
                tour thing anymore, last time I looked at the US Space & Rocket Center's
                website (which reminds me too much of the old Estes website's flash over substance),
                no info could be found about the bus tours. Keith, could you check into
                whether they do those bus tours anymore?

                The real Merc-Redstone used a lengthened Jupiter-C/Juno-I type tank. Seems
                like every museum's display Merc Redstone uses an old Redstone missile, with the
                short tankage, and the one in Huntsville is no exception (The one at JSC and
                Michigan Space Musuem have the same problem, BTW). As well, the Merc Redstone
                had a special intrument unit above the tankapge, which had some antennas
                sticking out of it. IIRC, only the Merc-Redstone at JSC has an accurate (left over)
                instrument unit with antennas.

                - George Gassaway




                **************************************
                See what's new at http://www.aol.com


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • blkgtx@cox.net
                Thanks much George! That is exactly the info I was looking for. I can get a nice set of fins from that. I have a bunch of reference pictures as well. All
                Message 7 of 19 , Nov 1, 2007
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                  Thanks much George! That is exactly the info I was looking for. I can get a nice set of fins from that. I have a bunch of reference pictures as well. All together I should get a nice model together.

                  Geoffrey

                  ---- gcgassaway@... wrote:
                  > Geoffrey wrote:
                  >
                  > >>>>>
                  > Hi Keith. Do they have a real Mercury Redstone booster there? If so, could
                  > you get some detailed dimensions of the fins for me? I have enough info. on the
                  > booster except for the fin dimensions I hope to make a nice scale model of it
                  > for NARAM.
                  > <<<<<
                  >
                  > The US Space & Rocket Center in Huntsville has three Redstone-based boosters.
                  > A Redstone missile, Juno-I (Jupiter-C), and Merc-Redstone.
                  >
                  > From what I could tell , they all three have the same valid "Redstone" tail
                  > sections.
                  >
                  > Here is a pic taken while a friend got a measurement of the gap between the
                  > tail section and tank assembly:
                  >
                  > http://members.aol.com/GCGassaway/SCALE/otherscale/Datagathering.JPG
                  >
                  > I drew up plans for the Juno-I, based on hands-on measurements of the tail
                  > section, general but not-detailed drawings, and a 1/96 scale Marshall model
                  > workshop drawing that obviously had used really solid data circa 1960 that was not
                  > possible to find by the 1980's. Here are links to gifs of the drawings I
                  > made.
                  >
                  > http://homepage.mac.com/georgegassaway/assorted/Juno-I.gif
                  >
                  > http://homepage.mac.com/georgegassaway/assorted/Juno-I_tail.gif
                  >
                  > A caveat about the Juno-I and Mercury Redstone up there. The real Juno-I had
                  > a lengthened tank compared to the Redstone missile. For whatever nutty
                  > reasons, the Juno-I there has two SHORT tanks from Redstone missiles, which makes
                  > that Juno ridiculously taller than the real thing (far worse than if they had
                  > just with a dressed-up Redstone missile with tanks too short). The Juno-I was
                  > about 70 feet tall, theirs looks like about 90 feet tall compared to the
                  > Redstone missile near it. It is the "Superroc" of Redstone-missile-based display
                  > rockets, and totally bogus to make a model of (at least a complete too-long one
                  > based on the extra tankage).
                  >
                  > Now the good news is that there is a VERY accurate real Juno-I on display at
                  > the Rocket Park inside of Marshall Space Flight Center a few miles away. The
                  > bad news is that thanks to Homeland Security you'll probably never get to see
                  > it other than zipping past the window during a NASA bus tour that does NOT stop
                  > there (the first ever Saturn-I is also there, the finless prototype).
                  > Marshall has a double-security whammy not just because it is a NASA facility, but
                  > even moreso because it is INSIDE of Redstone Arsenal’s security zone, and
                  > Redstone is an active army base. Actually, I am not even sure if they do the bus
                  > tour thing anymore, last time I looked at the US Space & Rocket Center's
                  > website (which reminds me too much of the old Estes website's flash over substance),
                  > no info could be found about the bus tours. Keith, could you check into
                  > whether they do those bus tours anymore?
                  >
                  > The real Merc-Redstone used a lengthened Jupiter-C/Juno-I type tank. Seems
                  > like every museum's display Merc Redstone uses an old Redstone missile, with the
                  > short tankage, and the one in Huntsville is no exception (The one at JSC and
                  > Michigan Space Musuem have the same problem, BTW). As well, the Merc Redstone
                  > had a special intrument unit above the tankapge, which had some antennas
                  > sticking out of it. IIRC, only the Merc-Redstone at JSC has an accurate (left over)
                  > instrument unit with antennas.
                  >
                  > - George Gassaway
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > **************************************
                  > See what's new at http://www.aol.com
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • roketrik@aol.com
                  _Re: Huntsville Space & Rocket Center _ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scaleroc/message/10289;_ylc=X3oDMTJvNG5nMnViBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzc3NjQEZ3Jwc3BJZ
                  Message 8 of 19 , Nov 2, 2007
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                    _Re: Huntsville Space & Rocket Center _
                    (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scaleroc/message/10289;_ylc=X3oDMTJvNG5nMnViBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzc3NjQEZ3Jwc3BJZ
                    AMxNzA1MDYzNTU3BG1zZ0lkAzEwMjg5BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzExOTM5OTYxODk
                    -)
                    Posted by: "Geoffrey" _blkgtx@... _ (mailto:blkgtx@...?Subject=
                    Re:%20Huntsville%20Space%20&%20Rocket%20Center) _blkgtx _
                    (http://profiles.yahoo.com/blkgtx)
                    Thu Nov 1, 2007 12:19 pm (PST)
                    Nice site but I could not find any dimension info. on the fins.

                    Thanks, Geoffrey >>



                    **********************************************************

                    Geoffrey,


                    I took some closeup photos & measurements of the original Redstone that was
                    on gate guard duty at CCAFS. I'll see if I can dig those up. Also, I'll be at
                    the Cape in a few weeks, leading our club's charter tour. There's a Redstone
                    on display at pad 5; it has an authentic aft section so I'll take some
                    photos. Anyone who has special photo requests of display items, email me what you
                    would like me to photograph & I will do what I can.

                    Rick Boyette



                    ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Geoffrey
                    Much thanks for you generous help. Geoffrey ... From: roketrik@aol.com To: scaleroc@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 6:57 AM Subject: [Scaleroc]
                    Message 9 of 19 , Nov 2, 2007
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                      Much thanks for you generous help.
                      Geoffrey

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: roketrik@...
                      To: scaleroc@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 6:57 AM
                      Subject: [Scaleroc] Re: Huntsville Space & Rocket Center




                      _Re: Huntsville Space & Rocket Center _
                      (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scaleroc/message/10289;_ylc=X3oDMTJvNG5nMnViBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzc3NjQEZ3Jwc3BJZ
                      AMxNzA1MDYzNTU3BG1zZ0lkAzEwMjg5BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzExOTM5OTYxODk
                      -)
                      Posted by: "Geoffrey" _blkgtx@... _ (mailto:blkgtx@...?Subject=
                      Re:%20Huntsville%20Space%20&%20Rocket%20Center) _blkgtx _
                      (http://profiles.yahoo.com/blkgtx)
                      Thu Nov 1, 2007 12:19 pm (PST)
                      Nice site but I could not find any dimension info. on the fins.

                      Thanks, Geoffrey >>

                      **********************************************************

                      Geoffrey,

                      I took some closeup photos & measurements of the original Redstone that was
                      on gate guard duty at CCAFS. I'll see if I can dig those up. Also, I'll be at
                      the Cape in a few weeks, leading our club's charter tour. There's a Redstone
                      on display at pad 5; it has an authentic aft section so I'll take some
                      photos. Anyone who has special photo requests of display items, email me what you
                      would like me to photograph & I will do what I can.

                      Rick Boyette

                      ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • gcgassaway@aol.com
                      ... David Weeks has a set of prints available. http://www.apollosaturn.com/modeling/dwmerc.htm
                      Message 10 of 19 , Nov 4, 2007
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                        Keith Frazier wrote:
                        >>>->>>
                        David Weeks has a set of prints available.
                        http://www.apollosaturn.com/modeling/dwmerc.htm
                        <<<-<<<

                        Jon replied:
                        >>>
                        I have been looking for these drawings for ages (I saw them once and
                        couldn't find them again). Does anyone know where these can be purchased as the ones
                        on this site appear to be too small to be readable.
                        <<<<<

                        From RealSpace Models:

                        http://www.realspacemodels.com/html/drawings.htm

                        - George Gassaway


                        **************************************
                        See what's new at
                        http://www.aol.com


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Geoffrey
                        Super Rick, send them along when you get a chance. This will be a winter project so no rush. Enjoy your trip! Regards, Geoffrey [Non-text portions of this
                        Message 11 of 19 , Nov 6, 2007
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                          Super Rick, send them along when you get a chance. This will be a winter project so no rush. Enjoy your trip!

                          Regards,
                          Geoffrey


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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