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Punches and fileing...

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  • B K
    Greetings to the list, I have been working on making some basic punches for the last couple of days and I have a few questions. I think I need to get some new
    Message 1 of 4 , Oct 28, 2005
      Greetings to the list,

      I have been working on making some basic punches for the last couple of
      days and I have a few questions.

      I think I need to get some new files. Currently I have a couple of sets
      of small files that I got from harbor freight. One of them is a set of
      regular metal files, the other were labled as diamond files or some
      such. The main problem is that for getting inside small curves and
      things even the smallest of the files seems to big.

      What do other folks use for files? Any suggestions for places online (or
      local to Minneapolis MN for any of the Northshielders on the list) for
      getting higher quality and finer detail files.


      My second questing has to do with making strait line punches. So far I
      have been able to look at coins or dies that I have in order to
      determine the size of my various triangels, cressents, etc. basic
      punches. I want to put together some strait line punches now. But I am
      having difficulty telling how long and wide these lines should be. I
      know that over time this will become obvious to me, but the rough
      suggestions from folks would be appreciated for some basic strait lines
      to get me started.

      thanks!!!

      yis,
      Andronikos Tzangares ho Philosophos
      Kingdom of Northshield
      Barony of Nordskogen
    • Greg Franck-Weiby
      ... From: B K To: sca_moneyer@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 2:25 PM Subject: [sca_moneyer] Punches and fileing... Greetings to the list, I
      Message 2 of 4 , Oct 28, 2005
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: B K
        Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 2:25 PM
        Subject: [sca_moneyer] Punches and fileing...

        Greetings to the list,

        I have been working on making some basic punches for the last couple of
        days and I have a few questions.

        I think I need to get some new files. Currently I have a couple of sets
        of small files that I got from harbor freight. One of them is a set of
        regular metal files, the other were labled as diamond files or some
        such. The main problem is that for getting inside small curves and
        things even the smallest of the files seems to big.

        What do other folks use for files?
         
        I have a cheap set of all the shapes (the ones I've seen at Harbor Freight are pretty funky, but they'll probably do).  However, I do 90% of my file shaping with a 200 cuts per inch Grobet 'knife' shaped file.  I think these are refered to as 'watchmakers files'.  The knife shaped file tapers down to a fairly small tip, so you can do 'inside' curves (e.g. of a crescent for letter bows) down to ~1mm inside diameter, as well as complex outlines very precisely. 
         
        However, some internal shapes simply can't be done with a file, at least not directly.  There are two approaches I've used.  One is using a punch to make a punch.  For example, the inside of a small O or the interior shapes of an Elizabethan Roman Capitol S can be made by sinking a dot with your beading punch; then file down the ridge displaced up around the depression by the punch and then use files to shape the rest of the letter around the punched in shape.  The other approach is to engrave the interior shapes with a square graver (e.g. for the inside of the wide V/A punch in 13th - 15th century style) or round gravers (e.g. for the inside curves of late period Roman Capitol style letters).  For more complex and larger interior shapes, it's more practical to engrave the shapes than to make special punches just for making a few punches. 
         
        Any suggestions for places online (or
        local to Minneapolis MN for any of the Northshielders on the list) for
        getting higher quality and finer detail files.
        I've bought the Grobet knife files from Gesswein.com.  They're relatively pricey - six or seven bux apiece - but worth it.  They give price breaks on bulk purchases (as few as three of any one tool) so it might be a good idea for your local Guild to make a bulk purchase for members (the An Tir Guild has done that with files and gravers).

        My second questing has to do with making strait line punches. So far I
        have been able to look at coins or dies that I have in order to
        determine the size of my various triangels, cressents, etc. basic
        punches. I want to put together some strait line punches now. But I am
        having difficulty telling how long and wide these lines should be. I
        know that over time this will become obvious to me, but the rough
        suggestions from folks would be appreciated for some basic strait lines
        to get me started.
        I don't do a lot of lining with punches, so I don't know if mine are the best sizes and proportions, but I have three 'lining' punches, one with the cutting edge a little over 1mm long, one ~2.5mm, and one 3mm long.  The ends of the line edge are tapered/rounded down a little bit so overlapping strokes are smoother.  The sides are about 45 degrees.  The medium length one has a shallower angle, i.e. it is 'blunter' than the longest one, making a wider line; it use it for punching Anglo-Saxon style letters.  The shortest one is for punching curved lines as well as smaller details.
         
        Ian 
         
      • B K
        Ian, Thank you for all of your helpful answers. ... I checked the Gesswin.com site, I have to say I am overwhelmed by the number of files come up on searches
        Message 3 of 4 , Oct 28, 2005
          Ian,

          Thank you for all of your helpful answers.




          Greg Franck-Weiby wrote:

          > /I have a cheap set of all the shapes (the ones I've seen at Harbor
          > Freight are pretty funky, but they'll probably do). However, I do
          > 90% of my file shaping with a 200 cuts per inch Grobet 'knife'
          > shaped file. I think these are refered to as 'watchmakers files'.
          > The knife shaped file tapers down to a fairly small tip, so you can
          > do 'inside' curves (e.g. of a crescent for letter bows) down to ~1mm
          >>>>>>>>>SNIP<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
          > /I've bought the Grobet knife files from Gesswein.com. They're
          > relatively pricey - six or seven bux apiece - but worth it. They
          > give price breaks on bulk purchases (as few as three of any one
          > tool) so it might be a good idea for your local Guild to make a bulk
          > purchase for members (the An Tir Guild has done that with files and
          > gravers)./

          I checked the Gesswin.com site, I have to say I am overwhelmed by the
          number of files come up on searches for "Gorbet" and "watchmaker files".
          Do you happen to know the item number for the file in question?

          thanks
          Andronikos
        • Greg Franck-Weiby
          ... From: B K To: sca_moneyer@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [sca_moneyer] Punches and fileing... I checked the
          Message 4 of 4 , Oct 30, 2005
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: B K
            Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 10:08 PM
            Subject: Re: [sca_moneyer] Punches and fileing...

            I checked the Gesswin.com site, I have to say I am overwhelmed by the
            number of files come up on searches for "Gorbet" and "watchmaker files".
            Do you happen to know the item number for the file in question?
            I'm pretty sure the ones I've bought are the 715-1116.  In last year's catalogue they were up to $8.70 apiece (or $7.40 each for a dozen or more).  It's a sweet tool.
             
            Ian

            thanks
            Andronikos
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