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sediment in the bottle

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  • lukoffbooks
    First I d like to say thanks for the help I ve recieved on this message board, as last weekend my wife and I debuted our first mead ever created; a blueberry
    Message 1 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
      First I'd like to say thanks for the help I've recieved on this
      message board, as last weekend my wife and I debuted our first mead
      ever created; a blueberry melomel, at a baronial camping event. We
      saw many a suprised face as we passed our first bottles around
      campfires, as everybody seemed to be quite pleasantly surprised. We
      had people who said they were very picky about their meads say that
      it tasted excellent and we would never have this success again, and
      others who insisted we let them know when we have more to barter
      with. And we did not tell the people tasting that this was our first
      attempt and how little it had been aged, until after they drank and
      gave their opinions. Approximately two people had constructive
      criticism, which was basically just to age it more which we knew was
      obvious seeing as how we had just bottled it approx 5 days
      previously :) We made two cases, brought one with us to
      share/drink/barter, and left one at home to age.

      We also ended up entering a bottle in the A&S competition, realzing
      this was a possibility approx 1 hour before the competition began.
      We spent a few minutes writing up a short, period description of how
      the melomel came to be, etc. The comments we recieved regarding
      taste and complexity were excellent, though since we hadn't done any
      research and they wanted info regarding how this assists with our
      personas, of course we didn't win, but got the laurels to try our
      stuff :)

      If you've read this far, thanks again, because this is where I am
      requesting assistance. When we bottled our mead it, it was VERY
      clear. Couldn't see any sediment, a beautiful rich color. But of
      course when we put a bottle on the table to compete, sediment had
      began to swirl around in the bottle. We then checked our other
      bottles in their cases, and they had a layer of sediment at the
      bottom. We did not use any clarifying agents, as the mead was clear
      when we bottled, there wasn't even anything on the bottom of the
      carboy.

      It still tastes great, and I'm sure will taste even better with age,
      and we're going to start 3 more 6 gallon batches very soon, but we
      were wondering if this sediment is avoidable. At basically each
      racking we filters through a hop sack or a jelatin strainer bag, and
      my wife's theory was once the pressure from the cork was created, it
      forced extremely small bits to collect.

      As for clarifying agents, I've done quite a bit of research on
      these, though I thought clarifiers were more for yeast than for
      fruits, as it looks as though its fruit bits floating around after
      you give a bottle a little shake. If clarifiers would assist with
      this, we would pour the remaining case back into a fermentor, add a
      clarifier and rebottle. If a clarifier wouldnt help with this, we'll
      probably just pour them back anyway and give it some more time.
      We're already amazed at the taste of a mead that was begun approx 2
      1/2 months ago! And yes I know many people reading this may say "it
      takes at least a year for a good mead", though my taste buds beg to
      differ :) Thanks again for the help and allowing me to be longwinded
      (I like to call it thorough)

      -Niko-
    • lukoffbooks
      First I d like to say thanks for the help I ve recieved on this message board, as last weekend my wife and I debuted our first mead ever created; a blueberry
      Message 2 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
        First I'd like to say thanks for the help I've recieved on this
        message board, as last weekend my wife and I debuted our first mead
        ever created; a blueberry melomel, at a baronial camping event. We
        saw many a suprised face as we passed our first bottles around
        campfires, as everybody seemed to be quite pleasantly surprised. We
        had people who said they were very picky about their meads say that
        it tasted excellent and we would never have this success again, and
        others who insisted we let them know when we have more to barter
        with. And we did not tell the people tasting that this was our first
        attempt and how little it had been aged, until after they drank and
        gave their opinions. Approximately two people had constructive
        criticism, which was basically just to age it more which we knew was
        obvious seeing as how we had just bottled it approx 5 days
        previously :) We made two cases, brought one with us to
        share/drink/barter, and left one at home to age.

        We also ended up entering a bottle in the A&S competition, realzing
        this was a possibility approx 1 hour before the competition began.
        We spent a few minutes writing up a short, period description of how
        the melomel came to be, etc. The comments we recieved regarding
        taste and complexity were excellent, though since we hadn't done any
        research and they wanted info regarding how this assists with our
        personas, of course we didn't win, but got the laurels to try our
        stuff :)

        If you've read this far, thanks again, because this is where I am
        requesting assistance. When we bottled our mead it, it was VERY
        clear. Couldn't see any sediment, a beautiful rich color. But of
        course when we put a bottle on the table to compete, sediment had
        began to swirl around in the bottle. We then checked our other
        bottles in their cases, and they had a layer of sediment at the
        bottom. We did not use any clarifying agents, as the mead was clear
        when we bottled, there wasn't even anything on the bottom of the
        carboy.

        It still tastes great, and I'm sure will taste even better with age,
        and we're going to start 3 more 6 gallon batches very soon, but we
        were wondering if this sediment is avoidable. At basically each
        racking we filters through a hop sack or a jelatin strainer bag, and
        my wife's theory was once the pressure from the cork was created, it
        forced extremely small bits to collect.

        As for clarifying agents, I've done quite a bit of research on
        these, though I thought clarifiers were more for yeast than for
        fruits, as it looks as though its fruit bits floating around after
        you give a bottle a little shake. If clarifiers would assist with
        this, we would pour the remaining case back into a fermentor, add a
        clarifier and rebottle. If a clarifier wouldnt help with this, we'll
        probably just pour them back anyway and give it some more time.
        We're already amazed at the taste of a mead that was begun approx 2
        1/2 months ago! And yes I know many people reading this may say "it
        takes at least a year for a good mead", though my taste buds beg to
        differ :) Thanks again for the help and allowing me to be longwinded
        (I like to call it thorough)

        -Niko-
      • Carraig Mac Cosgraigh
        ... I have bottle mead that was more than a year old and appeared quite clear. Several batches still produced sediment after bottling. While products that I
        Message 3 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
          --- lukoffbooks <mrlukoff@...> wrote:

          >
          > If you've read this far, thanks again, because this
          > is where I am
          > requesting assistance. When we bottled our mead it,
          > it was VERY
          > clear. Couldn't see any sediment, a beautiful rich
          > color. But of
          > course when we put a bottle on the table to compete,
          > sediment had
          > began to swirl around in the bottle. We then checked
          > our other
          > bottles in their cases, and they had a layer of
          > sediment at the
          > bottom. We did not use any clarifying agents, as the
          > mead was clear
          > when we bottled, there wasn't even anything on the
          > bottom of the
          > carboy.
          >
          > <<SNIP>>
          >
          > As for clarifying agents, I've done quite a bit of
          > research on
          > these, though I thought clarifiers were more for
          > yeast than for
          > fruits, as it looks as though its fruit bits
          > floating around after
          > you give a bottle a little shake. If clarifiers
          > would assist with
          > this, we would pour the remaining case back into a
          > fermentor, add a
          > clarifier and rebottle. If a clarifier wouldnt help
          > with this, we'll
          > probably just pour them back anyway and give it some
          > more time.
          > We're already amazed at the taste of a mead that was
          > begun approx 2
          > 1/2 months ago! And yes I know many people reading
          > this may say "it
          > takes at least a year for a good mead", though my
          > taste buds beg to
          > differ :)
          >

          I have bottle mead that was more than a year old and
          appeared quite clear. Several batches still produced
          sediment after bottling. While products that I waited
          2 or more years to bottle have not had any sediment in
          the bottles.

          If you want to bottle sooner that a couple of years
          after you start, then you need to use fining agents;
          or use a power filter (with filters measured in
          microns not straining bags); or get used to having
          sediment in your bottles. Sediment is period ;-)

          Carraig


          __________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          http://mail.yahoo.com
        • lukoffbooks
          ... Thanks for the info, and the statement that sediment is period! I ll actually put that down in our A&S description. So clarifiers like sparkalloid and
          Message 4 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
            --- In sca_brew@yahoogroups.com, Carraig Mac Cosgraigh
            <carraig1014@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > --- lukoffbooks <mrlukoff@...> wrote:
            >
            > >
            > > If you've read this far, thanks again, because this
            > > is where I am
            > > requesting assistance. When we bottled our mead it,
            > > it was VERY
            > > clear. Couldn't see any sediment, a beautiful rich
            > > color. But of
            > > course when we put a bottle on the table to compete,
            > > sediment had
            > > began to swirl around in the bottle. We then checked
            > > our other
            > > bottles in their cases, and they had a layer of
            > > sediment at the
            > > bottom. We did not use any clarifying agents, as the
            > > mead was clear
            > > when we bottled, there wasn't even anything on the
            > > bottom of the
            > > carboy.
            > >
            > > <<SNIP>>
            > >
            > > As for clarifying agents, I've done quite a bit of
            > > research on
            > > these, though I thought clarifiers were more for
            > > yeast than for
            > > fruits, as it looks as though its fruit bits
            > > floating around after
            > > you give a bottle a little shake. If clarifiers
            > > would assist with
            > > this, we would pour the remaining case back into a
            > > fermentor, add a
            > > clarifier and rebottle. If a clarifier wouldnt help
            > > with this, we'll
            > > probably just pour them back anyway and give it some
            > > more time.
            > > We're already amazed at the taste of a mead that was
            > > begun approx 2
            > > 1/2 months ago! And yes I know many people reading
            > > this may say "it
            > > takes at least a year for a good mead", though my
            > > taste buds beg to
            > > differ :)
            > >
            >
            > I have bottle mead that was more than a year old and
            > appeared quite clear. Several batches still produced
            > sediment after bottling. While products that I waited
            > 2 or more years to bottle have not had any sediment in
            > the bottles.
            >
            > If you want to bottle sooner that a couple of years
            > after you start, then you need to use fining agents;
            > or use a power filter (with filters measured in
            > microns not straining bags); or get used to having
            > sediment in your bottles. Sediment is period ;-)
            >
            > Carraig
            >
            >
            > __________________________________________________
            > Do You Yahoo!?
            > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > http://mail.yahoo.com
            >

            Thanks for the info, and the statement that sediment is period! I'll
            actually put that down in our A&S description. So clarifiers like
            sparkalloid and bentonite or whatever would take care of that?
            Great, thanks.
          • Erick Maxskelly
            Has anyone had any success using irish moss as a clarifier while making mead? Just a thought. ... -- Ld. Earik MacSkellie Squire to Sir Galem Lionel Ostwestly
            Message 5 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
              Has anyone had any success using irish moss as a clarifier while making mead? Just a thought.

              On 9/4/06, lukoffbooks < mrlukoff@...> wrote:

              --- In sca_brew@yahoogroups.com, Carraig Mac Cosgraigh
              <carraig1014@...> wrote:


              >
              >
              > --- lukoffbooks <mrlukoff@...> wrote:
              >
              > >
              > > If you've read this far, thanks again, because this
              > > is where I am
              > > requesting assistance. When we bottled our mead it,
              > > it was VERY
              > > clear. Couldn't see any sediment, a beautiful rich
              > > color. But of
              > > course when we put a bottle on the table to compete,
              > > sediment had
              > > began to swirl around in the bottle. We then checked
              > > our other
              > > bottles in their cases, and they had a layer of
              > > sediment at the
              > > bottom. We did not use any clarifying agents, as the
              > > mead was clear
              > > when we bottled, there wasn't even anything on the
              > > bottom of the
              > > carboy.
              > >
              > > <<SNIP>>
              > >
              > > As for clarifying agents, I've done quite a bit of
              > > research on
              > > these, though I thought clarifiers were more for
              > > yeast than for
              > > fruits, as it looks as though its fruit bits
              > > floating around after
              > > you give a bottle a little shake. If clarifiers
              > > would assist with
              > > this, we would pour the remaining case back into a
              > > fermentor, add a
              > > clarifier and rebottle. If a clarifier wouldnt help
              > > with this, we'll
              > > probably just pour them back anyway and give it some
              > > more time.
              > > We're already amazed at the taste of a mead that was
              > > begun approx 2
              > > 1/2 months ago! And yes I know many people reading
              > > this may say "it
              > > takes at least a year for a good mead", though my
              > > taste buds beg to
              > > differ :)
              > >
              >
              > I have bottle mead that was more than a year old and
              > appeared quite clear. Several batches still produced
              > sediment after bottling. While products that I waited
              > 2 or more years to bottle have not had any sediment in
              > the bottles.
              >
              > If you want to bottle sooner that a couple of years
              > after you start, then you need to use fining agents;
              > or use a power filter (with filters measured in
              > microns not straining bags); or get used to having
              > sediment in your bottles. Sediment is period ;-)
              >
              > Carraig
              >
              >
              > __________________________________________________
              > Do You Yahoo!?
              > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              > http://mail.yahoo.com
              >

              Thanks for the info, and the statement that sediment is period! I'll
              actually put that down in our A&S description. So clarifiers like
              sparkalloid and bentonite or whatever would take care of that?
              Great, thanks.




              --
              Ld. Earik MacSkellie
              Squire to Sir Galem Lionel Ostwestly
              Marshal, Incipient Shire of Foxvale
            • NINacide@aol.com
              When I made a strawberry mead, the first step was to strain it with a reusable fabric/plastic coffee filter. The thing works very well and I now use it for
              Message 6 of 26 , Sep 4, 2006
                 When I made a strawberry mead, the first step was to strain it with a reusable fabric/plastic coffee filter.  The thing works very well and I now use it for anything that I do.  Filters are good for clumpy bits, clarifiers are good for charged particles, and enzymes are good for fruit haze.  Does anyone out there know if perfectly clear, sediment free, alcohols are period?  'Cuz if not, then I'm fine with a little sediment and haze.
                 
                 
                -----Original Message-----
                From: erickmaxskelly@...
                To: sca_brew@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 8:57 PM
                Subject: Re: [SCA_Brew] Re: sediment in the bottle

                Has anyone had any success using irish moss as a clarifier while making mead? Just a thought.

                On 9/4/06, lukoffbooks < mrlukoff@hotmail. com> wrote:
                --- In sca_brew@yahoogroup s.com, Carraig Mac Cosgraigh
                <carraig1014@ ...> wrote:

                >
                >
                > --- lukoffbooks <mrlukoff@...> wrote:
                >
                > >
                > > If you've read this far, thanks again, because this
                > > is where I am
                > > requesting assistance. When we bottled our mead it,
                > > it was VERY
                > > clear. Couldn't see any sediment, a beautiful rich
                > > color. But of
                > > course when we put a bottle on the table to compete,
                > > sediment had
                > > began to swirl around in the bottle. We then checked
                > > our other
                > > bottles in their cases, and they had a layer of
                > > sediment at the
                > > bottom. We did not use any clarifying agents, as the
                > > mead was clear
                > > when we bottled, there wasn't even anything on the
                > > bottom of the
                > > carboy.
                > >
                > > <<SNIP>>
                > >
                > > As for clarifying agents, I've done quite a bit of
                > > research on
                > > these, though I thought clarifiers were more for
                > > yeast than for
                > > fruits, as it looks as though its fruit bits
                > > floating around after
                > > you give a bottle a little shake. If clarifiers
                > > would assist with
                > > this, we would pour the remaining case back into a
                > > fermentor, add a
                > > clarifier and rebottle. If a clarifier wouldnt help
                > > with this, we'll
                > > probably just pour them back anyway and give it some
                > > more time.
                > > We're already amazed at the taste of a mead that was
                > > begun approx 2
                > > 1/2 months ago! And yes I know many people reading
                > > this may say "it
                > > takes at least a year for a good mead", though my
                > > taste buds beg to
                > > differ :)
                > >
                >
                > I have bottle mead that was more than a year old and
                > appeared quite clear. Several batches still produced
                > sediment after bottling. While products that I waited
                > 2 or more years to bottle have not had any sediment in
                > the bottles.
                >
                > If you want to bottle sooner that a couple of years
                > after you start, then you need to use fining agents;
                > or use a power filter (with filters measured in
                > microns not straining bags); or get used to having
                > sediment in your bottles. Sediment is period ;-)
                >
                > Carraig
                >
                >
                > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
                > Do You Yahoo!?
                > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                > http://mail. yahoo.com
                >

                Thanks for the info, and the statement that sediment is period! I'll
                actually put that down in our A&S description. So clarifiers like
                sparkalloid and bentonite or whatever would take care of that?
                Great, thanks.




                --
                Ld. Earik MacSkellie
                Squire to Sir Galem Lionel Ostwestly
                Marshal, Incipient Shire of Foxvale

                Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
              • Erick Maxskelly
                Our definition of clear is definately a modern concept. Heck, a good lambic will still have the fruit in it when it is served. ... -- Ld. Earik MacSkellie
                Message 7 of 26 , Sep 5, 2006
                  Our definition of clear is definately a modern concept. Heck, a good lambic will still have the fruit in it when it is served.

                  On 9/5/06, NINacide@... <NINacide@...> wrote:

                   When I made a strawberry mead, the first step was to strain it with a reusable fabric/plastic coffee filter.  The thing works very well and I now use it for anything that I do.  Filters are good for clumpy bits, clarifiers are good for charged particles, and enzymes are good for fruit haze.  Does anyone out there know if perfectly clear, sediment free, alcohols are period?  'Cuz if not, then I'm fine with a little sediment and haze.
                   
                   
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: erickmaxskelly@gmail.com
                  To: sca_brew@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 8:57 PM
                  Subject: Re: [SCA_Brew] Re: sediment in the bottle

                  Has anyone had any success using irish moss as a clarifier while making mead? Just a thought.

                  On 9/4/06, lukoffbooks < mrlukoff@...> wrote:
                  --- In sca_brew@yahoogroups.com, Carraig Mac Cosgraigh
                  <carraig1014@...> wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > --- lukoffbooks <mrlukoff@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  > > If you've read this far, thanks again, because this
                  > > is where I am
                  > > requesting assistance. When we bottled our mead it,
                  > > it was VERY
                  > > clear. Couldn't see any sediment, a beautiful rich
                  > > color. But of
                  > > course when we put a bottle on the table to compete,
                  > > sediment had
                  > > began to swirl around in the bottle. We then checked
                  > > our other
                  > > bottles in their cases, and they had a layer of
                  > > sediment at the
                  > > bottom. We did not use any clarifying agents, as the
                  > > mead was clear
                  > > when we bottled, there wasn't even anything on the
                  > > bottom of the
                  > > carboy.
                  > >
                  > > <<SNIP>>
                  > >
                  > > As for clarifying agents, I've done quite a bit of
                  > > research on
                  > > these, though I thought clarifiers were more for
                  > > yeast than for
                  > > fruits, as it looks as though its fruit bits
                  > > floating around after
                  > > you give a bottle a little shake. If clarifiers
                  > > would assist with
                  > > this, we would pour the remaining case back into a
                  > > fermentor, add a
                  > > clarifier and rebottle. If a clarifier wouldnt help
                  > > with this, we'll
                  > > probably just pour them back anyway and give it some
                  > > more time.
                  > > We're already amazed at the taste of a mead that was
                  > > begun approx 2
                  > > 1/2 months ago! And yes I know many people reading
                  > > this may say "it
                  > > takes at least a year for a good mead", though my
                  > > taste buds beg to
                  > > differ :)
                  > >
                  >
                  > I have bottle mead that was more than a year old and
                  > appeared quite clear. Several batches still produced
                  > sediment after bottling. While products that I waited
                  > 2 or more years to bottle have not had any sediment in
                  > the bottles.
                  >
                  > If you want to bottle sooner that a couple of years
                  > after you start, then you need to use fining agents;
                  > or use a power filter (with filters measured in
                  > microns not straining bags); or get used to having
                  > sediment in your bottles. Sediment is period ;-)
                  >
                  > Carraig
                  >
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________
                  > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  > http://mail.yahoo.com
                  >

                  Thanks for the info, and the statement that sediment is period! I'll
                  actually put that down in our A&S description. So clarifiers like
                  sparkalloid and bentonite or whatever would take care of that?
                  Great, thanks.




                  --
                  Ld. Earik MacSkellie
                  Squire to Sir Galem Lionel Ostwestly
                  Marshal, Incipient Shire of Foxvale

                  Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.




                  --
                  Ld. Earik MacSkellie
                  Squire to Sir Galem Lionel Ostwestly
                  Marshal, Incipient Shire of Foxvale
                • lordship@comcast.net
                  The choice of clarifier depends on what the sediment problem is. There is a very good primer on clarifiers in an on-line e-newsletter called the Foamy Express.
                  Message 8 of 26 , Sep 5, 2006
                    The choice of clarifier depends on what the sediment problem is. There is a very good primer on clarifiers in an on-line e-newsletter called the Foamy Express. Check out the back issues at http://www.thehomebrewstore.com/foamyexpress.htm. April 2004 is the date for the clarifier article.

                    For fruit bits, you would be looking for a clarifier with a negatively charged ionic profile, and moderate mucilage. Gelatin would be a good choice, although it will strip some of the body. One recommendation is to add some grape tannin 24 hours prior to adding the fining agent.

                    For future documentation purposes, remember that blueberries are strictly a North American berry. There are relatives of the blueberry that are European. Carraig... you have some docs on that don't you? --Madoc

                    At 06:56 PM 9/4/2006, you wrote:

                    First I'd like to say thanks for the help I've recieved on this
                    message board, as last weekend my wife and I debuted our first mead
                    ever created; a blueberry melomel, at a baronial camping event. We
                    saw many a suprised face as we passed our first bottles around
                    campfires, as everybody seemed to be quite pleasantly surprised. We
                    had people who said they were very picky about their meads say that
                    it tasted excellent and we would never have this success again, and
                    others who insisted we let them know when we have more to barter
                    with. And we did not tell the people tasting that this was our first
                    attempt and how little it had been aged, until after they drank and
                    gave their opinions. Approximately two people had constructive
                    criticism, which was basically just to age it more which we knew was
                    obvious seeing as how we had just bottled it approx 5 days
                    previously :) We made two cases, brought one with us to
                    share/drink/barter, and left one at home to age.

                    We also ended up entering a bottle in the A&S competition, realzing
                    this was a possibility approx 1 hour before the competition began.
                    We spent a few minutes writing up a short, period description of how
                    the melomel came to be, etc. The comments we recieved regarding
                    taste and complexity were excellent, though since we hadn't done any
                    research and they wanted info regarding how this assists with our
                    personas, of course we didn't win, but got the laurels to try our
                    stuff :)

                    If you've read this far, thanks again, because this is where I am
                    requesting assistance. When we bottled our mead it, it was VERY
                    clear. Couldn't see any sediment, a beautiful rich color. But of
                    course when we put a bottle on the table to compete, sediment had
                    began to swirl around in the bottle. We then checked our other
                    bottles in their cases, and they had a layer of sediment at the
                    bottom. We did not use any clarifying agents, as the mead was clear
                    when we bottled, there wasn't even anything on the bottom of the
                    carboy.

                    It still tastes great, and I'm sure will taste even better with age,
                    and we're going to start 3 more 6 gallon batches very soon, but we
                    were wondering if this sediment is avoidable. At basically each
                    racking we filters through a hop sack or a jelatin strainer bag, and
                    my wife's theory was once the pressure from the cork was created, it
                    forced extremely small bits to collect.

                    As for clarifying agents, I've done quite a bit of research on
                    these, though I thought clarifiers were more for yeast than for
                    fruits, as it looks as though its fruit bits floating around after
                    you give a bottle a little shake. If clarifiers would assist with
                    this, we would pour the remaining case back into a fermentor, add a
                    clarifier and rebottle. If a clarifier wouldnt help with this, we'll
                    probably just pour them back anyway and give it some more time.
                    We're already amazed at the taste of a mead that was begun approx 2
                    1/2 months ago! And yes I know many people reading this may say "it
                    takes at least a year for a good mead", though my taste buds beg to
                    differ :) Thanks again for the help and allowing me to be longwinded
                    (I like to call it thorough)

                    -Niko-

                  • lordship@comcast.net
                    I ve used Irish moss in braggot and mead ale. It didn t work worth a darn in the mead ale, although the hop to honey ratio was incredibly high (1 to 1). It
                    Message 9 of 26 , Sep 5, 2006
                      I've used Irish moss in braggot and mead ale. It didn't work worth a
                      darn in the mead ale, although the hop to honey ratio was incredibly
                      high (1 to 1). It worked okay in the braggot, although the base was a
                      brown ale, so it was hard to tell --Madoc

                      At 11:57 PM 9/4/2006, you wrote:

                      >Has anyone had any success using irish moss as a clarifier while
                      >making mead? Just a thought.
                    • lordship@comcast.net
                      Yes, there are examples of perfectly clear alcohols, if your definition of perfectly clear is no sediment . Filtering was used in Greek, Roman, and Persian
                      Message 10 of 26 , Sep 5, 2006
                        Yes, there are examples of perfectly clear alcohols, if your
                        definition of perfectly clear is "no sediment". Filtering was used in
                        Greek, Roman, and Persian wines, for example. --Madoc

                        At 01:22 AM 9/5/2006, you wrote:

                        > When I made a strawberry mead, the first step was to strain it
                        > with a reusable fabric/plastic coffee filter. The thing works very
                        > well and I now use it for anything that I do. Filters are good for
                        > clumpy bits, clarifiers are good for charged particles, and enzymes
                        > are good for fruit haze. Does anyone out there know if perfectly
                        > clear, sediment free, alcohols are period? 'Cuz if not, then I'm
                        > fine with a little sediment and haze.
                      • David Gillam
                        Im getting into Herbology, and discovered Creeping Charlie , aka Ground Ivy aka Alehoof, was used for preservative before hops (mostly in Germanic tribes, it
                        Message 11 of 26 , Sep 5, 2006

                          Im getting into Herbology, and discovered “Creeping Charlie”, aka Ground Ivy aka Alehoof, was used for preservative before hops (mostly in Germanic tribes, it seems. Cant find anything to back that up though) Anywho, Anyone know more about this? As a total noob (still on kit beers) I don’t want to experiment without the advice and guidance of far more experienced brewers.

                        • NINacide@aol.com
                          Whenever I hear about uncommon herbs that were used in period recipes, my first thought is, is it now known to be toxic? That s where I d start, some sort
                          Message 12 of 26 , Sep 5, 2006
                            Whenever I hear about uncommon herbs that were used in period recipes, my first thought is, "is it now known to be toxic?"  That's where I'd start, some sort of toxicology database and find out if it's on the list or not.
                          • Jason C.
                            ... ok, google on alehoof pulled up a few, this was the first: http://www.herbsarespecial.com.au/free-herb-information/alehoof.html try web searching more,
                            Message 13 of 26 , Sep 5, 2006
                              At 08:34 PM 9/5/2006, you wrote:
                              Whenever I hear about uncommon herbs that were used in period recipes, my first thought is, "is it now known to be toxic?"  That's where I'd start, some sort of toxicology database and find out if it's on the list or not.
                              []

                              ok, google on "alehoof" pulled up a few, this was the first:

                              http://www.herbsarespecial.com.au/free-herb-information/alehoof.html

                              try web searching more, lots of good herb sources out there
                              Jason
                            • Carraig Mac Cosgraigh
                              ... No period references yet (still working on that), but the North American Blueberry is related to the European Bilberry. Bilberries are smaller than
                              Message 14 of 26 , Sep 5, 2006
                                --- lordship@... wrote:

                                >
                                > For future documentation purposes, remember that
                                > blueberries are strictly a North American berry.
                                > There are relatives of the blueberry that are
                                > European. Carraig... you have some docs on
                                > that don't you? --Madoc
                                >

                                No period references yet (still working on that), but
                                the North American Blueberry is related to the
                                European Bilberry. Bilberries are smaller than
                                blueberries, but have similar flavors. So they can be
                                substituted for each other in cooking recipes.

                                Carraig

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                              • NINacide@aol.com
                                Is there a source on what plants and fruits come from where and when they were discovered. I know potatoes are from peru, and also tomatoes, and my friends
                                Message 15 of 26 , Sep 5, 2006
                                  Is there a source on what plants and fruits come from where and when they were discovered.  I know potatoes are from peru, and also tomatoes, and my friends and I use what we call "the Columbus Rule" which means even if an explorer didn't bring back these plants before 1650, we can still eat them for dinner because European explorers were in the neighborhood in the 1500's.  It's mental mas******ion, I know, but many of the people in my group get grumpy if you take away their potatoes because they're not period.  Furthermore, under our rule, you could say that the Vikings were in North America and so you can use the berries, but don't expect anyone other than your circle of friends to play by these rules or guidelines.
                                • leaking pen
                                  yeah, using potatoes in an a and s cooking competition means you lose, automatically. (so, no potatoe vodka either) ... -- That which yields isn t always weak.
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Sep 5, 2006
                                    yeah, using potatoes in an a and s cooking competition means you lose, automatically.
                                    (so, no potatoe vodka either)

                                     
                                    On 9/5/06, NINacide@... <NINacide@...> wrote:

                                    Is there a source on what plants and fruits come from where and when they were discovered.  I know potatoes are from peru, and also tomatoes, and my friends and I use what we call "the Columbus Rule" which means even if an explorer didn't bring back these plants before 1650, we can still eat them for dinner because European explorers were in the neighborhood in the 1500's.  It's mental mas******ion, I know, but many of the people in my group get grumpy if you take away their potatoes because they're not period.  Furthermore, under our rule, you could say that the Vikings were in North America and so you can use the berries, but don't expect anyone other than your circle of friends to play by these rules or guidelines.




                                    --
                                    That which yields isn't always weak.
                                  • NINacide@aol.com
                                    *potato (Sorry, my grandmother was an English teacher and she never let me get away with anything.)
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Sep 6, 2006
                                      *potato
                                       
                                      (Sorry, my grandmother was an English teacher and she never let me get away with anything.)
                                    • Steven Sanders
                                      Yeah, I ve got it all over my backyard. Although I cant find the reference now, none of the online references I m pulling up mention it, I had ran across a
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Sep 6, 2006
                                        Yeah, I've got it all over my backyard. Although I cant find the reference now, none of the online references I'm pulling up mention it, I had ran across a potential for some kind of toxicity (hepa?) when I first researched this stuff. On the other hand, take enough of anything, and it will kill you, so who knows what the LD50 was, or if it was accumulative, or what.

                                        So, potentially toxic, odd's are you are safe, though, unless you are looking to make a brew out of 5 gallons of the pressed juice of the plant, but don't quote me on it.

                                        steven

                                        On 9/5/06, David Gillam <david.gillam@...> wrote:

                                        Im getting into Herbology, and discovered "Creeping Charlie", aka Ground Ivy aka Alehoof, was used for preservative before hops (mostly in Germanic tribes, it seems. Cant find anything to back that up though) Anywho, Anyone know more about this? As a total noob (still on kit beers) I don't want to experiment without the advice and guidance of far more experienced brewers.




                                        --
                                        My Moon-based death ray
                                        Panics the people of earth
                                        Mock my theories now!

                                        http://www.studiosputnik.com


                                      • kral
                                        Alehoof is not classify as toxic for human (base on A sip through time ) I know it was use in beer at some point (gruit ale) but I have to dig the reference.
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Sep 6, 2006
                                          Alehoof is not classify as toxic for human
                                          (base on 'A sip through time')

                                          I know it was use in beer at some point (gruit ale) but I have to dig
                                          the reference.
                                          It is refered sligly post-period in a mead by Digbie (I have to check
                                          which on) but as a minor ingredient I believe..

                                          Used for tea also and clarifying base on a 17xx writing (again, see A
                                          sip through time).

                                          I have taste it in Good gruit ale at least once before, I have some at
                                          home and plan to brew something with it as some point
                                          (along with too many other herbs).

                                          Ludwig

                                          Funny to consider it exotic and buy it at high price, and then having it
                                          point out to me as something that cover the ground at Pennsic later on...



                                          NINacide@... wrote:

                                          > Whenever I hear about uncommon herbs that were used in period recipes,
                                          > my first thought is, "is it now known to be toxic?" That's where I'd
                                          > start, some sort of toxicology database and find out if it's on the
                                          > list or not.
                                          >
                                          >
                                        • leaking pen
                                          heh. i do it on purpose, ever since a particular vice president, as satire of a sorts. ... -- That which yields isn t always weak.
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Sep 6, 2006
                                            heh.  i do it on purpose, ever since a particular vice president, as satire of a sorts.

                                            On 9/6/06, NINacide@... <NINacide@...> wrote:

                                            *potato
                                             
                                            (Sorry, my grandmother was an English teacher and she never let me get away with anything.)




                                            --
                                            That which yields isn't always weak.
                                          • NINacide@aol.com
                                            well now that I know that, good job then.
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Sep 6, 2006
                                              well now that I know that, good job then.
                                            • David Gillam
                                              I know its not too toxic, because Ive eaten it. My teacher threw it into a salad. But she s Native American, and doesn t know too much about the European uses
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Sep 6, 2006

                                                I know its not too toxic, because Ive eaten it. My teacher threw it into a salad. But she’s Native American, and doesn’t know too much about the European uses of the plant.

                                                 


                                                From: sca_brew@yahoogroups.com [mailto: sca_brew@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Steven Sanders
                                                Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 7:33 AM
                                                To: sca_brew@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: Re: [SCA_Brew] RE:Alehoof

                                                 

                                                Yeah, I've got it all over my backyard. Although I cant find the reference now, none of the online references I'm pulling up mention it, I had ran across a potential for some kind of toxicity (hepa?) when I first researched this stuff. On the other hand, take enough of anything, and it will kill you, so who knows what the LD50 was, or if it was accumulative, or what.

                                                So, potentially toxic, odd's are you are safe, though, unless you are looking to make a brew out of 5 gallons of the pressed juice of the plant, but don't quote me on it.

                                                steven

                                                On 9/5/06, David Gillam <david.gillam@ comcast.net> wrote:

                                                Im getting into Herbology, and discovered "Creeping Charlie", aka Ground Ivy aka Alehoof, was used for preservative before hops (mostly in Germanic tribes, it seems. Cant find anything to back that up though) Anywho, Anyone know more about this? As a total noob (still on kit beers) I don't want to experiment without the advice and guidance of far more experienced brewers.




                                                --
                                                My Moon-based death ray
                                                Panics the people of earth
                                                Mock my theories now!

                                                http://www.studiosp utnik.com

                                              • Jeffrey Polaski
                                                This is a little OT, but still on the sediment topic... I have a Chocolate Chipotle mead that turned rather nasty on bringing it to an event. At home it was
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Sep 6, 2006

                                                  This is a little OT, but still on the sediment topic…

                                                   

                                                  I have a Chocolate Chipotle mead that turned rather nasty on bringing it to an event. At home it was really nice if not typical mead. Once I got to the event it pretty much turned to crap.

                                                   

                                                  Not that it was bad, exactly, but some of it was very hot from the peppers. I’m pretty sure what happened was that the sediment got stirred up during the trip. It changed the flavor from something that was good to something in the “passable” to “crap” range, depending on how much you like heat and how much sediment there was left in the bottle. I felt bad handing it out, actually. I gave one bottle away on the condition that it sit for a while so the sediment drops out.

                                                   

                                                  I really enjoy it at home, but next time I think I’ll let it age longer and rack it once or twice more, or use a fining agent. Oh well, live and learn…

                                                   

                                                   


                                                  From: sca_brew@yahoogroups.com [mailto: sca_brew@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of lukoffbooks
                                                  Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 3:57 PM
                                                  To: sca_brew@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: [SCA_Brew] sediment in the bottle

                                                   

                                                  First I'd like to say thanks for the help I've recieved on this
                                                  message board, as last weekend my wife and I debuted our first mead
                                                  ever created; a blueberry melomel, at a baronial camping event. We
                                                  saw many a suprised face as we passed our first bottles around
                                                  campfires, as everybody seemed to be quite pleasantly surprised. We
                                                  had people who said they were very picky about their meads say that
                                                  it tasted excellent and we would never have this success again, and
                                                  others who insisted we let them know when we have more to barter
                                                  with. And we did not tell the people tasting that this was our first
                                                  attempt and how little it had been aged, until after they drank and
                                                  gave their opinions. Approximately two people had constructive
                                                  criticism, which was basically just to age it more which we knew was
                                                  obvious seeing as how we had just bottled it approx 5 days
                                                  previously :) We made two cases, brought one with us to
                                                  share/drink/ barter, and left one at home to age.

                                                  We also ended up entering a bottle in the A&S competition, realzing
                                                  this was a possibility approx 1 hour before the competition began.
                                                  We spent a few minutes writing up a short, period description of how
                                                  the melomel came to be, etc. The comments we recieved regarding
                                                  taste and complexity were excellent, though since we hadn't done any
                                                  research and they wanted info regarding how this assists with our
                                                  personas, of course we didn't win, but got the laurels to try our
                                                  stuff :)

                                                  If you've read this far, thanks again, because this is where I am
                                                  requesting assistance. When we bottled our mead it, it was VERY
                                                  clear. Couldn't see any sediment, a beautiful rich color. But of
                                                  course when we put a bottle on the table to compete, sediment had
                                                  began to swirl around in the bottle. We then checked our other
                                                  bottles in their cases, and they had a layer of sediment at the
                                                  bottom. We did not use any clarifying agents, as the mead was clear
                                                  when we bottled, there wasn't even anything on the bottom of the
                                                  carboy.

                                                  It still tastes great, and I'm sure will taste even better with age,
                                                  and we're going to start 3 more 6 gallon batches very soon, but we
                                                  were wondering if this sediment is avoidable. At basically each
                                                  racking we filters through a hop sack or a jelatin strainer bag, and
                                                  my wife's theory was once the pressure from the cork was created, it
                                                  forced extremely small bits to collect.

                                                  As for clarifying agents, I've done quite a bit of research on
                                                  these, though I thought clarifiers were more for yeast than for
                                                  fruits, as it looks as though its fruit bits floating around after
                                                  you give a bottle a little shake. If clarifiers would assist with
                                                  this, we would pour the remaining case back into a fermentor, add a
                                                  clarifier and rebottle. If a clarifier wouldnt help with this, we'll
                                                  probably just pour them back anyway and give it some more time.
                                                  We're already amazed at the taste of a mead that was begun approx 2
                                                  1/2 months ago! And yes I know many people reading this may say "it
                                                  takes at least a year for a good mead", though my taste buds beg to
                                                  differ :) Thanks again for the help and allowing me to be longwinded
                                                  (I like to call it thorough)

                                                  -Niko-

                                                • Steven Sanders
                                                  Jeff, What did you use for the chipotle? steven ... -- My Moon-based death ray Panics the people of earth Mock my theories now! http://www.studiosputnik.com
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Sep 6, 2006
                                                    Jeff,

                                                    What did you use for the chipotle?

                                                    steven

                                                    On 9/6/06, Jeffrey Polaski <jeff.polaski@...> wrote:

                                                    This is a little OT, but still on the sediment topic…

                                                     

                                                    I have a Chocolate Chipotle mead that turned rather nasty on bringing it to an event. At home it was really nice if not typical mead. Once I got to the event it pretty much turned to crap.

                                                     

                                                    Not that it was bad, exactly, but some of it was very hot from the peppers. I'm pretty sure what happened was that the sediment got stirred up during the trip. It changed the flavor from something that was good to something in the "passable" to "crap" range, depending on how much you like heat and how much sediment there was left in the bottle. I felt bad handing it out, actually. I gave one bottle away on the condition that it sit for a while so the sediment drops out.

                                                     

                                                    I really enjoy it at home, but next time I think I'll let it age longer and rack it once or twice more, or use a fining agent. Oh well, live and learn…

                                                     

                                                     


                                                    From: sca_brew@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:sca_brew@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of lukoffbooks
                                                    Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 3:57 PM


                                                    To: sca_brew@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: [SCA_Brew] sediment in the bottle

                                                     

                                                    First I'd like to say thanks for the help I've recieved on this
                                                    message board, as last weekend my wife and I debuted our first mead
                                                    ever created; a blueberry melomel, at a baronial camping event. We
                                                    saw many a suprised face as we passed our first bottles around
                                                    campfires, as everybody seemed to be quite pleasantly surprised. We
                                                    had people who said they were very picky about their meads say that
                                                    it tasted excellent and we would never have this success again, and
                                                    others who insisted we let them know when we have more to barter
                                                    with. And we did not tell the people tasting that this was our first
                                                    attempt and how little it had been aged, until after they drank and
                                                    gave their opinions. Approximately two people had constructive
                                                    criticism, which was basically just to age it more which we knew was
                                                    obvious seeing as how we had just bottled it approx 5 days
                                                    previously :) We made two cases, brought one with us to
                                                    share/drink/barter, and left one at home to age.

                                                    We also ended up entering a bottle in the A&S competition, realzing
                                                    this was a possibility approx 1 hour before the competition began.
                                                    We spent a few minutes writing up a short, period description of how
                                                    the melomel came to be, etc. The comments we recieved regarding
                                                    taste and complexity were excellent, though since we hadn't done any
                                                    research and they wanted info regarding how this assists with our
                                                    personas, of course we didn't win, but got the laurels to try our
                                                    stuff :)

                                                    If you've read this far, thanks again, because this is where I am
                                                    requesting assistance. When we bottled our mead it, it was VERY
                                                    clear. Couldn't see any sediment, a beautiful rich color. But of
                                                    course when we put a bottle on the table to compete, sediment had
                                                    began to swirl around in the bottle. We then checked our other
                                                    bottles in their cases, and they had a layer of sediment at the
                                                    bottom. We did not use any clarifying agents, as the mead was clear
                                                    when we bottled, there wasn't even anything on the bottom of the
                                                    carboy.

                                                    It still tastes great, and I'm sure will taste even better with age,
                                                    and we're going to start 3 more 6 gallon batches very soon, but we
                                                    were wondering if this sediment is avoidable. At basically each
                                                    racking we filters through a hop sack or a jelatin strainer bag, and
                                                    my wife's theory was once the pressure from the cork was created, it
                                                    forced extremely small bits to collect.

                                                    As for clarifying agents, I've done quite a bit of research on
                                                    these, though I thought clarifiers were more for yeast than for
                                                    fruits, as it looks as though its fruit bits floating around after
                                                    you give a bottle a little shake. If clarifiers would assist with
                                                    this, we would pour the remaining case back into a fermentor, add a
                                                    clarifier and rebottle. If a clarifier wouldnt help with this, we'll
                                                    probably just pour them back anyway and give it some more time.
                                                    We're already amazed at the taste of a mead that was begun approx 2
                                                    1/2 months ago! And yes I know many people reading this may say "it
                                                    takes at least a year for a good mead", though my taste buds beg to
                                                    differ :) Thanks again for the help and allowing me to be longwinded
                                                    (I like to call it thorough)

                                                    -Niko-




                                                    --
                                                    My Moon-based death ray
                                                    Panics the people of earth
                                                    Mock my theories now!

                                                    http://www.studiosputnik.com


                                                  • Jeffrey Polaski
                                                    ... You know, smoked jalapenos - plain old chipotle chili peppers. I m not sure what they were smoked with, but I think it was mesquite. I ground them up in
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , Sep 6, 2006

                                                      >Steven:
                                                      >What did you use for the chipotle?

                                                      You know, smoked jalapenos – plain old chipotle chili peppers. I’m not sure what they were smoked with, but I think it was mesquite. I ground them up in clean pepper mill and added them to the primary. I forgot exactly when I started it, but this batch is about 8—12 months old.



                                                    • PBLoomis@aol.com
                                                      In a message dated 9/5/2006 9:58:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, david.gillam@comcast.net writes: Im getting into Herbology, and discovered “Creeping
                                                      Message 26 of 26 , Sep 7, 2006
                                                        In a message dated 9/5/2006 9:58:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, david.gillam@... writes:
                                                        Im getting into Herbology, and discovered “Creeping Charlie”, aka Ground Ivy aka Alehoof, was used for preservative before hops (mostly in Germanic tribes, it seems. Cant find anything to back that up though) Anywho, Anyone know more about this?
                                                            Alehoof is my favorite gruit for a refreshing summer ale.  I use two ounces of dried
                                                        alehoof for bittering and half an ounce of dried hyssop for aroma.  The mash is six lbs
                                                        of malted barley and two lbs of malted oats.  Brought five gallons to Pennsic and
                                                        everybody loved it.
                                                            Scotti
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