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Re: [SCA-JML] Re: My Mon, can it get passed?

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  • Donald J. Luby
    ... Well, when I got around to submitting, I was assured (by said local heralds who became our kingdom submissions heralds) that the process had gotten better,
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 8, 2003
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      On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 07:49 AM, Jason Silver wrote:

      > Greetings Sir Koredono
      >
      > I am sure I can get it scanned in, colored and posted, that should
      > not be a problem.. As for the amount of time it takes, that does
      > surprise me LOL! Although, it shouldnt! LOL..

      Well, when I got around to submitting, I was assured (by said local
      heralds who became our kingdom submissions heralds) that the process
      had gotten better, and more streamlined, and should take 6 - 9 months,
      barring any problem with my submission. I don't know what (if
      anything) you may have been told in that regard, so I thought you
      should be informed as to the *real* processing time range.

      > Well, I have had the design for about 8 years now and have never
      > gotten around to getting it done, so I guess 14 months even still
      > would not be to bad..

      Yeah, I'd been using my mon for about 10 years, and told it should pass
      with no problems from heralds at all levels of the society (a former
      Laurel Queen of Arms is in my local group); it was only the
      documentation of my name which caused the delay, and I got badgered to
      finally submit about 2 years after I'd gotten all of my name
      information taken care of.

      > As for the name portion.. Well, that part is not so good.. I do have a
      > name that I have been going by, I believe I have researched it some
      > what, but alas, with out the book that I originally used (lost due to
      > a flood) I can not confirm I did it correctly. I used the book done by
      > Solveig Throndardottir, but at the time I was younger and didnt
      > understand japanese and history as well as I do today..

      Well, Solveig's in this list, maybe she can help you; I have a copy of
      her book, but I know she understands such things much better than I.

      > Maybe we can do a quick run down, Persona, 4th son of the family, born
      > in 1432 and sent abroad to learn and become a great leader.
      > Name : Takeda Imakawa Shirou Yoshitaka, now in recent chats with a
      > friend he told me that I would not formally announce that I am apart
      > of the Takeda Clan, and as such it should be Imakawa Shirou Yoshitaka,
      > but he believed it should be Imakawa Shirou no Yoshitaka..

      Well, that *sounds* pretty good to me, but I'm sure that Solveig (and
      Effingham) will have a far more informed opinion than I, and will
      probably will share it with you.

      > At present I am using the last.. I do plan on reordering the book that
      > done by Solveig Throndardottir as I believe that as one of the few
      > japanese persona's in our area I need to try to help others who come
      > along after me,

      What an excellent motivation! I was lucky, having been originally
      squired to a European knight who already had a Japanese squire, and
      then transferred to the head of the largest Japanese household in the
      SCA (Sir Ogami Akira, of Clan Yama Kaminari), as well as apprenticed to
      a Laurel, who, while primarily interested in Italian Rennaisance
      costuming, had done a good bit of research and interest in Japanese
      costuming as well.
      I know that in many areas, Japanese (or even all non-mainline Western
      European) personae are given trouble - I've heard many a story of
      people who wanted Japanese personae, but were told by the
      'knowledgeable old-timers' in their group that such was 'not allowed'
      in the SCA. So, the best answer really is to just be a good example,
      an informed source of information, and role model for other new people.

      > that and I loved some of the information contained with in the book.
      >
      > Well, thats about it for now, need to go to work..
      > Jason
      > SCA : Imakawa Shirou no Yoshitaka



      Sir Koredono

      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      -------
      Don Luby Magariki Katsuichi no
      Koredono, KSCA
      djl@...
      Yama-kaminari-ryu
      Pittsburgh, PA Debatable Lands,
      AEthelmearc
    • Jason Silver
      Greetings again Sir Koredono ... local ... process ... months, ... I thank you for this.. I can only hope that the process goes smoothly.. ... pass ... former
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 8, 2003
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        Greetings again Sir Koredono

        > Well, when I got around to submitting, I was assured (by said
        local
        > heralds who became our kingdom submissions heralds) that the
        process
        > had gotten better, and more streamlined, and should take 6 - 9
        months,
        > barring any problem with my submission. I don't know what (if
        > anything) you may have been told in that regard, so I thought you
        > should be informed as to the *real* processing time range.

        I thank you for this.. I can only hope that the process goes
        smoothly..

        > Yeah, I'd been using my mon for about 10 years, and told it should
        pass
        > with no problems from heralds at all levels of the society (a
        former
        > Laurel Queen of Arms is in my local group); it was only the
        > documentation of my name which caused the delay, and I got badgered
        to
        > finally submit about 2 years after I'd gotten all of my name
        > information taken care of.

        Isn't it funny how that goes? In talking to a friend of mine from
        another Kingdom, he was telling me that one of the local fighters
        became king, it was interesting to watch he said because as he did
        become king, those around him scrambled and before the end of his
        term they had the device and his name registered.. Funny how that
        goes! LOL Hmm, Wonder what it would be like to be in that seat...
        Naa, I have enough to deal with my young daughter :)

        > Well, Solveig's in this list, maybe she can help you; I have a copy
        of
        > her book, but I know she understands such things much better than I.
        >
        > > Maybe we can do a quick run down, Persona, 4th son of the family,
        born
        > > in 1432 and sent abroad to learn and become a great leader.
        > > Name : Takeda Imakawa Shirou Yoshitaka, now in recent chats with
        a
        > > friend he told me that I would not formally announce that I am
        apart
        > > of the Takeda Clan, and as such it should be Imakawa Shirou
        Yoshitaka,
        > > but he believed it should be Imakawa Shirou no Yoshitaka..
        >
        > Well, that *sounds* pretty good to me, but I'm sure that Solveig
        (and
        > Effingham) will have a far more informed opinion than I, and will
        > probably will share it with you.

        I do hope, but if not, that is ok, I am working on getting all my
        books together to make a good stab at it and get it done..

        > What an excellent motivation! I was lucky, having been originally
        > squired to a European knight who already had a Japanese squire,
        and
        > then transferred to the head of the largest Japanese household in
        the
        > SCA (Sir Ogami Akira, of Clan Yama Kaminari), as well as
        apprenticed to
        > a Laurel, who, while primarily interested in Italian Renaissance
        > costuming, had done a good bit of research and interest in
        Japanese
        > costuming as well.

        I think I must ask, are you apart of Clan Yama Kaminari? If you are I
        have looked at your web site many times and dearly love it! I have a
        real love for the encampment you have all built, if I could ask,
        maybe you could post some pictures of that encampment here as a
        inspiration for the rest of us to make bigger and better
        encampments..

        Also, if you are apart of the group, I need to ask, the hats that I
        see many of the guys wearing, what are those called and where do you
        get them? I have your basic conical style but don't really feel that
        it fits me or my look so well.. In truth I would love another style
        of hat (don't know the correct name for it), but it is the style that
        goes completely over your head only leaving a small window in front
        that looks like a bunch of bamboo bars (in theory, hiding the face)..
        Just seems more my style LOL.. (better to hide me then see me I think
        LOL)

        > I know that in many areas, Japanese (or even all non-mainline
        Western
        > European) personae are given trouble - I've heard many a story of
        > people who wanted Japanese personae, but were told by the
        > 'knowledgeable old-timers' in their group that such was 'not
        allowed'
        > in the SCA. So, the best answer really is to just be a good
        example,
        > an informed source of information, and role model for other new
        people.

        I know when I first joined the SCA and started talking to people and
        they asked about my persona and I mentioned Japanese, I really got a
        lot of negative feed back.. After a year a found that a lot of those
        who had given me that feed back had left the SCA for it was not what
        they wanted, and those that had supported me in it where still
        around.. To this day, those that DID support the idea are still
        around and I am very happy to see that..

        Jason
        Imakawa Shirou no Yoshitaka
      • Donald J. Luby
        ... Well, if your mon is well-designed, and has no conflicts, it shouldn t have any bumps along the road. ... I wondered how they managed that - from what I d
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 8, 2003
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          On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 12:28 AM, Jason Silver wrote:

          > Greetings again Sir Koredono
          >
          >> Well, when I got around to submitting, I was assured (by said local
          >> heralds who became our kingdom submissions heralds) that the process
          >> had gotten better, and more streamlined, and should take 6 - 9 months,
          >> barring any problem with my submission. I don't know what (if
          >> anything) you may have been told in that regard, so I thought you
          >> should be informed as to the *real* processing time range.
          >
          > I thank you for this.. I can only hope that the process goes smoothly..

          Well, if your mon is well-designed, and has no conflicts, it shouldn't
          have any bumps along the road.

          >> Yeah, I'd been using my mon for about 10 years, and told it should
          >> pass
          >> with no problems from heralds at all levels of the society (a former
          >> Laurel Queen of Arms is in my local group); it was only the
          >> documentation of my name which caused the delay, and I got badgered to
          >> finally submit about 2 years after I'd gotten all of my name
          >> information taken care of.
          >
          > Isn't it funny how that goes? In talking to a friend of mine from
          > another Kingdom, he was telling me that one of the local fighters
          > became king, it was interesting to watch he said because as he did
          > become king, those around him scrambled and before the end of his
          > term they had the device and his name registered..

          I wondered how they managed that - from what I'd been told, the biggest
          hold up recently (past two years or so) has been at the Laurel level;
          as an example, they sat on the results of the meeting where my mon and
          name were decided on for 4 months before telling *anyone* the results
          of that meeting, and I have no idea whether that's gotten any better.
          So while they may have rushed to get it through *internally*, the
          external process they have little to no control over.

          > Funny how that goes! LOL Hmm, Wonder what it would be like to be in
          > that seat...
          > Naa, I have enough to deal with my young daughter :)

          Wise decision, IMO.

          >> Well, Solveig's in this list, maybe she can help you; I have a copy of
          >> her book, but I know she understands such things much better than I.
          >>
          >>> Maybe we can do a quick run down, Persona, 4th son of the family,
          >>> born
          >>> in 1432 and sent abroad to learn and become a great leader.
          >>> Name : Takeda Imakawa Shirou Yoshitaka, now in recent chats with a
          >>> friend he told me that I would not formally announce that I am apart
          >>> of the Takeda Clan, and as such it should be Imakawa Shirou
          >>> Yoshitaka,
          >>> but he believed it should be Imakawa Shirou no Yoshitaka..
          >>
          >> Well, that *sounds* pretty good to me, but I'm sure that Solveig (and
          >> Effingham) will have a far more informed opinion than I, and will
          >> probably will share it with you.
          >
          > I do hope, but if not, that is ok, I am working on getting all my
          > books together to make a good stab at it and get it done..

          Good luck.

          >> What an excellent motivation! I was lucky, having been originally
          >> squired to a European knight who already had a Japanese squire, and
          >> then transferred to the head of the largest Japanese household in the
          >> SCA (Sir Ogami Akira, of Clan Yama Kaminari), as well as apprenticed
          >> to
          >> a Laurel, who, while primarily interested in Italian Renaissance
          >> costuming, had done a good bit of research and interest in Japanese
          >> costuming as well.
          >
          > I think I must ask, are you apart of Clan Yama Kaminari?

          Yes, I am (it even says so in my .sig), and have been for many (11?
          12?) years, ever since my first knight left the SCA and transferred me
          to a more active knight before he was gone for good.

          > If you are I have looked at your web site many times and dearly love
          > it!

          I will pass that along to our hatamoto - she maintains the site, as
          well as does all of our clan paperwork and bookkeeping (including being
          our Pennsic land agent). We all chip in with submissions of various
          sorts to the site, as fits our own knowledge and interest, but she
          rides herd on all of us!

          > I have a real love for the encampment you have all built, if I could
          > ask,
          > maybe you could post some pictures of that encampment here as a
          > inspiration for the rest of us to make bigger and better
          > encampments..

          Well, we have pics of it on the site (www.nb.net/~kmeg/kaminari), will
          probably have more after Pennsic; I wouldn't want to suck up bandwidth
          by posting images to the group, though.

          > Also, if you are apart of the group, I need to ask, the hats that I
          > see many of the guys wearing, what are those called and where do you
          > get them?

          If you mean the rounded ones, that look like an inverted fruit bowl,
          I'm afraid I can't really help you. One of my former squire brothers,
          when he was stationed in Japan in the Navy, went to a specialty store
          to acquire them. He has since, some years ago, been transferred back
          to the states, so our source is gone.

          > I have your basic conical style but don't really feel that
          > it fits me or my look so well.. In truth I would love another style
          > of hat (don't know the correct name for it), but it is the style that
          > goes completely over your head only leaving a small window in front
          > that looks like a bunch of bamboo bars (in theory, hiding the face)..
          > Just seems more my style LOL.. (better to hide me then see me I think
          > LOL)

          I would enjoy one of those myself, but I suspect that'd be even harder
          to find than we ones we got.

          >> I know that in many areas, Japanese (or even all non-mainline Western
          >> European) personae are given trouble - I've heard many a story of
          >> people who wanted Japanese personae, but were told by the
          >> 'knowledgeable old-timers' in their group that such was 'not allowed'
          >> in the SCA. So, the best answer really is to just be a good example,
          >> an informed source of information, and role model for other new
          >> people.
          >
          > I know when I first joined the SCA and started talking to people and
          > they asked about my persona and I mentioned Japanese, I really got a
          > lot of negative feed back.. After a year a found that a lot of those
          > who had given me that feed back had left the SCA for it was not what
          > they wanted, and those that had supported me in it where still
          > around.. To this day, those that DID support the idea are still
          > around and I am very happy to see that..

          Well, that is very lucky for you; believe me, not everyone is so
          fortunate. I know that no-one local to me when I was joining really
          had any issues (that they brought up to me) about my persona choice,
          but I live in a pretty mellow and liberal group; there's a lot of
          serious research and authenticity that goes on here, but by and large
          we don't rain on each others' parades if it just happens to not suit
          our personal preferences (so long as it's not *completely* ridiculous,
          like elves, vampires, and other fantasy creatures).

          > Jason
          > Imakawa Shirou no Yoshitaka
          >


          Sir Koredono

          ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          -------
          Don Luby Magariki Katsuichi no
          Koredono, KSCA
          djl@...
          Yama-kaminari-ryu
          Pittsburgh, PA Debatable Lands,
          AEthelmearc
        • Steve Gill
          ... You can get them from Japan - http://www.shop-japan.co.jp/english-boku/warring5.htm - not cheap but very nice. The hat you re describing sounds like the
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 9, 2003
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            Donald J. Luby wrote:
            >
            > On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 12:28 AM, Jason Silver wrote:
            >
            > > Greetings again Sir Koredono
            > >
            ... snip ...
            >
            > > Also, if you are apart of the group, I need to ask, the hats that I
            > > see many of the guys wearing, what are those called and where do you
            > > get them?
            >
            > If you mean the rounded ones, that look like an inverted fruit bowl,
            > I'm afraid I can't really help you. One of my former squire brothers,
            > when he was stationed in Japan in the Navy, went to a specialty store
            > to acquire them. He has since, some years ago, been transferred back
            > to the states, so our source is gone.
            >
            > > I have your basic conical style but don't really feel that
            > > it fits me or my look so well.. In truth I would love another style
            > > of hat (don't know the correct name for it), but it is the style that
            > > goes completely over your head only leaving a small window in front
            > > that looks like a bunch of bamboo bars (in theory, hiding the face)..
            > > Just seems more my style LOL.. (better to hide me then see me I think
            > > LOL)
            >
            > I would enjoy one of those myself, but I suspect that'd be even harder
            > to find than we ones we got.
            >

            You can get them from Japan -
            http://www.shop-japan.co.jp/english-boku/warring5.htm - not cheap but very
            nice. The hat you're describing sounds like the 'Ronin gasa'. I haven't seen
            one of these yet, but have the 'Takuhatsu gasa' and the quality is pretty
            good. The cheaper hats don't have quite the same build quality.

            And yes, the 'Takuhatsu gasa' constantly gets referred to as 'the fruit
            bowl'.

            ... snip again ...


            ---
            Steve Gill
            Steve@...
            http://www.caws.demon.co.uk/
            http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lion_azure/

            This message has been checked for all known viruses by Norton AntiVirus
            2002.
          • Donald J. Luby
            ... Actually, it looks like we have Sando gasa , but the shape isn t all that different. Thanks for the info, BTW; now I know where we could get more. OTOH,
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 9, 2003
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              On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 05:42 AM, Steve Gill wrote:

              > You can get them from Japan -
              > http://www.shop-japan.co.jp/english-boku/warring5.htm - not cheap but
              > very
              > nice. The hat you're describing sounds like the 'Ronin gasa'. I
              > haven't seen
              > one of these yet, but have the 'Takuhatsu gasa' and the quality is
              > pretty
              > good. The cheaper hats don't have quite the same build quality.
              >
              > And yes, the 'Takuhatsu gasa' constantly gets referred to as 'the fruit
              > bowl'.

              Actually, it looks like we have "Sando gasa", but the shape isn't all
              that different. Thanks for the info, BTW; now I know where we could
              get more. OTOH, the seem to be charging about triple what we got them
              from in Japan; I guess everyone has whatever markup they think they cna
              get away with.

              > ---
              > Steve Gill
              > Steve@...
              > http://www.caws.demon.co.uk/
              > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/lion_azure/

              Koredono
            • Solveig
              Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! ... As i recall, holding names are only created at laurel level. This means that your name has to make it past kingdom
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 11, 2003
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                Noble Cousins!

                Greetings from Solveig!

                >Also, you cannot submit a device without submitting a name (though you
                >can submit a name, and if it passes, you can later submit a device for
                >it), so unless you've got your name documentation all good to go, you
                >should probably take care of that soon too; if the name bounces and the
                >mon passes, they'll assign you a 'holding name' (usually something like
                >"[your mundane or SCA first name] of [the name of the SCA group you
                >live in]", which is what your mon will be registered to, until you
                >submit a name which passes.

                As i recall, "holding names" are only created at laurel level. This means
                that your name has to make it past kingdom level, or everything gets sent
                back to you.
                --

                Your Humble Servant
                Solveig Throndardottir
                Amateur Scholar

                +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                | the trash by my email filters. |
                +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
              • Solveig
                Noble Cousins! Greetings from Solveig! We should understand that the late sixteenth century military groups were distinct from the uji which did persist in at
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 12, 2003
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                  Noble Cousins!

                  Greetings from Solveig! We should understand that the late sixteenth
                  century military groups were distinct from the uji which did persist
                  in at least some circles until after the Meiji Restoration in the
                  nineteenth century. In terms of name formation, these uji are imporant,
                  but the military groups of the sixteenth century generally are not.
                  This is because the mlitary groups were, according to Mass, territory
                  based rather than kinship based.

                  Regardless, the uji as distinct from the family does show up in
                  documents. Since the uji often carry the kabane titles you are
                  not so likely to pass over them when you are getting into high
                  gear about announcing yourself and your impressive lineage.
                  However, actual practice can only be deduced from reading Monogatari
                  dating from about the time period that you are interested in.

                  So for example, Takeda Shingen claimed descent from the Seiwa Genji
                  and therefor from Seiwa Ten'nou. What you should expect is for the
                  Genji to posess the cadet branch which in turn might posess a
                  specific family and then on to a specific individual who first is
                  mentioned by their structural relationship and then by their
                  individual name. Here is an example taken from a more or less
                  contemporaneous illustration:

                  Takeda Daizen no Daibu Harunobu Nyuudou Shingen

                  In this case we are not seeing the Genji being mentioned although
                  we do see them being mentioned in 19th century documents with
                  notations such as Minamoto no Asomi. Here is a specific example
                  from Heike Monogatari.

                  Daijou Daijin Taira no Asson Kiyomori Kou

                  GOOD GRIEF IT IS A TYPO! GRUMBLE! GRUMBLE! GRUMBLE! That is supposed
                  to be Ason not Asson. GRUMBLE! And, I just got to the point where
                  fixing things costs money.

                  Daijou Daijin is a an office, Taira is an Uji, ... <I think that
                  I will quitely go off somewhere and cry or something.>


                  The wandering -no- is at best a bit elusive. This is especially true
                  as they generally only appear as glosses and not in the main text.
                  However, at least some of the names in Heike Monogatari follow the
                  form of <uji> no <tsuushou> <nanori> which puts the -no- in a rather
                  differnt place than you are putting it. The placemet which I am
                  suggesting makes a bit more sense if you think about the function
                  of the name elementand their possible origin. I currently believe
                  that -<suffix> names are generally associated with <uji> and are
                  "posessed" by the <uji> and that <nanori> originated as an imitation
                  of Chinese given names begining around 645 CE.

                  Incidentally, I just sent NCMJ to the printer a couple of hours ago.
                  I should be receiving a proof early next week, and if the printer
                  smiles kindly upon us, it will be available at Pennsic. This will
                  be a "Revised" editition rather than a "Second" edition. There are
                  a number of specific reasons for this, but I am too tired at the
                  moment to go over them in detail.


                  >Well, that *sounds* pretty good to me, but I'm sure that Solveig
                  >(and Effingham) will have a far more informed opinion than I, and
                  >will probably will share it with you.
                  >
                  >> At present I am using the last.. I do plan on reordering the book
                  >>that done by Solveig Throndardottir as I believe that as one of
                  >>the few japanese persona's in our area I need to try to help
                  >>others who come along after me,
                  >
                  >What an excellent motivation! I was lucky, having been originally
                  >squired to a European knight who already had a Japanese squire, and
                  >then transferred to the head of the largest Japanese household in
                  >the SCA (Sir Ogami Akira, of Clan Yama Kaminari), as well as
                  >apprenticed to a Laurel, who, while primarily interested in Italian
                  >Rennaisance costuming, had done a good bit of research and interest
                  >in Japanese costuming as well.
                  >I know that in many areas, Japanese (or even all non-mainline
                  >Western European) personae are given trouble - I've heard many a
                  >story of people who wanted Japanese personae, but were told by the
                  >'knowledgeable old-timers' in their group that such was 'not
                  >allowed' in the SCA. So, the best answer really is to just be a
                  >good example, an informed source of information, and role model for
                  >other new people.
                  >
                  >> that and I loved some of the information contained with in the book.
                  >>
                  >> Well, thats about it for now, need to go to work..
                  >> Jason
                  >> SCA : Imakawa Shirou no Yoshitaka
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Sir Koredono
                  >
                  >------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >-------
                  >Don Luby Magariki Katsuichi no
                  >Koredono, KSCA
                  >djl@...
                  >Yama-kaminari-ryu
                  >Pittsburgh, PA Debatable Lands,
                  >AEthelmearc
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >UNSUBSCRIBE: E-mail sca-jml-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


                  --
                  +----------------------------------+-----------------------------------+
                  | Dr. Barbara Nostrand | Department of Computer Science |
                  | Assistant Professor | SUNY College at Potsdam |
                  | (315) 267-2216 | Potsdam, New York 13676 |
                  +----------------------------------+-----------------------------------+
                  | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                  | the trash by my email filters. |
                  +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                  --

                  Your Humble Servant
                  Solveig Throndardottir
                  Amateur Scholar

                  +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                  | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                  | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                  | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                  +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                  | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                  | the trash by my email filters. |
                  +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                • Dean Wayland
                  Dear Donald, Further to Steve Gill s reply regarding Kasa (hats) from shop-japan at: http://www.shop-japan.co.jp/english-boku/warring5.htm - not cheap When we
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 19, 2003
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                    Dear Donald,

                    Further to Steve Gill's reply regarding Kasa (hats) from shop-japan at:
                    http://www.shop-japan.co.jp/english-boku/warring5.htm - not cheap

                    When we got our first order from them last month we found that some of
                    the cheaper hats have a plastic frame as part of their construction,
                    which gives them a flat apex, and can be seen at the centre on the
                    inside only. Steve's "Takuhatsu gasa" was the only one without this
                    feature. I have the Sando-gasa which has a flattish top to it, and so it
                    doesn't look too bad, and once I have covered the plastic with Washi
                    (Japanese paper), installed the Atamadai (a ring with loops for wearing
                    the Kasa), and finally putting in the cloth pad normally worn, you'll
                    never know its there.

                    As we try to avoid modern materials in kit construction, I wrote to
                    shop-japan and asked which other models don't have plastic frames. I
                    have just received their reply and I thought you might find it useful.
                    Apart from the Takuhatsu gasa the only one devoid of plastic is the
                    Ronin gasa, so that's what we're getting next, along with some more
                    Waraji (straw sandals).

                    If you manage to find anyone out there doing them cheaper let us know.

                    Yours

                    Dean
                    Dean Wayland
                    Head Of The Fight School
                    http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk
                  • Anthony J. Bryant
                    ... Thanks, this is good to know! Effingham PS: Tell herself I said hi!
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jul 19, 2003
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                      Dean Wayland wrote:

                      >
                      > As we try to avoid modern materials in kit construction, I wrote to
                      > shop-japan and asked which other models don't have plastic frames. I
                      > have just received their reply and I thought you might find it useful.
                      > Apart from the Takuhatsu gasa the only one devoid of plastic is the
                      > Ronin gasa, so that's what we're getting next, along with some more
                      > Waraji (straw sandals).

                      Thanks, this is good to know!

                      Effingham

                      PS: Tell herself I said "hi!"
                    • Dean Wayland
                      ... No problem ... Willco:-) Dean Wayland Head Of The Fight School http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jul 22, 2003
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                        > Thanks, this is good to know!

                        No problem

                        > Effingham
                        >
                        > PS: Tell herself I said "hi!"

                        Willco:-)
                        Dean Wayland
                        Head Of The Fight School
                        http://www.thefightschool.demon.co.uk
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