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Re: [SCA-JML] Digest Number 1057

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  • Anthony J. Bryant
    ... Well, proper period kataginu are quite large, almost huge. Look at the mannequin wearing one in the Costume Museum:
    Message 1 of 3 , Jul 1, 2003
      Matt L wrote:

      > I tried following the measurements
      > for hakama, and kataginu and ended up with a hakama suited to someonejust
      > slightly larger than my 35" waist, but the kataginu seemed to be fitted to
      > someone of sumo proportion.

      Well, proper period kataginu are quite large, almost huge. Look at the mannequin
      wearing one in the Costume Museum:
      <http://www.iz2.or.jp/fukusyoku/busou/images/100-a.gif>

      > Perhapse it is that I misintrepreted the
      > instructions, but I did not think the sholders where suposed to hand 6
      > inches past my sholderpoints.

      No, that sounds about right. <G> Seriously, the body of a kataginu shouldn't be
      smaller than the body of the kimono; but since it doesn't have sleeves or
      sewn-shut sides, it sticks out rather than wrapping around, and stands out over
      the shoulder rather than going down your arm like the kimono. The shoulder seam
      on the kimono is actually several inches down your arm from the "point" of your
      shoulder, right? Well, imagine that length being brought straight out instead of
      down.

      >
      > GREAT!!! I hope it will also include more information on what belonged to
      > what timeframe, and how the outfits evolved from century to century.

      Actually, that is something else I want to do -- a "relationship" chart showing
      garb evolution and connections.

      > it
      > probably would be bad to make a outfit for heinan court that uses a hakama
      > that didn't come into style till late muramachi (I don't know that this
      > would be the case, BUT it is mearly an example)

      It's a real issue. It happens even in TV; almost every historical drama I've
      seen, even when they get the upper garments right, they tend to use the later
      hakama patterns. Looks really odd to me, but what it really represents is that
      these costumes already exist (there's very little "newly made" costuming for
      most historical productions there) and they're just renting bulk.

      I recently got a DVD of a really crappy "Minamoto no Yoshitsune" production
      where the costumes are okay, but whole chunks of armour were from the latter
      part of the 16th C. instead of the latter part of the 13th. And, of course,
      they're either wearing Momoyama sashinuki or Momoyama hakama as well.

      > or that durring this time
      > fram the obi was traditionaly only a couple inches wide, but turring this
      > time frame it started to grow wider, and this timeframe it was barely as
      > wide as a modern belt. (or substitute wider with longer)

      Ah, for the days when the obi was just a waist tie no thicker than a ribbon...
      <G>

      >
      > wonderful... one of the very few disapointments I have had with the website
      > was the garb section being incomplete... my girlfriend wants to go
      > japanese, and my laural has gone japanese,

      Isn't there a song... <G>

      > both being female I would like
      > to see a larger bit of information out there with easy access for those of
      > us who can not afford large libraries of books.

      I'll see if I can help you on that end. <G>

      > might I sugest a li'l of both??? you could build a book for professional
      > publication and market it tword a world of different groups, then self
      > publish a booklet or a series of booklets on quick and dirty ways to
      > produce basic garb from given periods. this would allow someone to get
      > started without having to invest more in a book containing other fields of
      > information right away...

      Not a bad idea...

      > yet the booklets would cost more per information
      > covered than the full book. either way I am looking forward to hearing of
      > the release of this book that I can get my own copy.
      >

      Well, I'm working now. <G>


      Effingham
    • sean ibanez
      I recently returned from a trip tpo new york where I visited the Metropolitan Museum of Art. First off, there Japanese wing is amazing. They have many sets
      Message 2 of 3 , Jul 7, 2003
        I recently returned from a trip tpo new york where I visited the Metropolitan Museum of Art. First off, there Japanese wing is amazing. They have many sets of armor (both in the Japanese wing and their international Armory. What I noticed about the japanese armor was that they were all Gusoku style (I think only one was Yoroi). I couldn't tell the difference between the two, and there was no provided description detailing the differences. All of the sets of armor were later than sca period (17th+). Does this have anything to do with it?

        Irobe Saburo Yoriie


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