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Re: [SCA-JML] Jinbaori

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  • Rosemary Norwood
    ... This is what I m in the middle of trying to do for Japanese kids garb - figure out some kind of formula for what I do when I measure my toddler up every 3
    Message 1 of 25 , Jun 30, 2003
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      On Sun, Jun 29, 2003 at 12:15:06PM -0500, Anthony J. Bryant wrote:
      > Richard Brooks wrote:
      >
      > >
      > > I know that I would buy it once it was out..One thing I would love to
      > > see would be fitting instructions that can be tailored to the person
      > > wearing the garment.
      >
      > That's actually one of the hardest things to deal with -- the sizing issue. I
      > think what I'm going to do is give "standard Japanese measurements" and then do
      > something by way of explanation on how to scale them to taller or wider (or
      > both) people (e.g., assuming for men, for example, that the original garment is
      > scaled for someone who's 5'6" tall and with a 27" waist). Most Japanese
      > clothing really seems to be "one size fits all" -- and modern Western "all" is a
      > lot more difficult to fit than period Japanese folk. <G>
      >
      > What do you think about that plan?

      This is what I'm in the middle of trying to do for Japanese kids garb -
      figure out some kind of formula for what I do when I measure my toddler
      up every 3 - 6 months. I know how to make a pattern from his
      measurements in about 20 minutes, but I'm trying to make that mental
      process make sense to other people. Project's on hold for now as I'm
      just trying to churn out stuff for our first Pennsic but I'll come back
      to it in the post-Pennsic season. If you want to brainstorm over it I'm
      available via email or we'll be at Pennsic middle weekend and early 2nd
      week. The basic pretext is I work out what his 'standard bolt width' is
      and work from there.

      >
      > Yup. Only with patterns more detailed and more seriously intended for
      > reconstruction. (The one-page things here in the files are all shortcuts and
      > don't really give any information on the actual construction.)
      >
      > > I hope so:) I also hope it includes female garments as well.
      >
      > Oh, definitely. Half the book will be. <G>
      >

      Excellent! Been muddling along in the dark with some help here and there
      but so few people do Kamakura, let alone female Kamakura I get mostly
      general and not specific help.

      Tatsu
      Yomada no Tatsutoshime
    • Anthony J. Bryant
      ... Actually, that s the most problematic issue. In the older garments, fortunately the standard bolt width seems to be around 26-28 , but with some larger
      Message 2 of 25 , Jul 1 11:30 AM
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        Rosemary Norwood wrote:

        >
        > This is what I'm in the middle of trying to do for Japanese kids garb -
        > figure out some kind of formula for what I do when I measure my toddler
        > up every 3 - 6 months. I know how to make a pattern from his
        > measurements in about 20 minutes, but I'm trying to make that mental
        > process make sense to other people. Project's on hold for now as I'm
        > just trying to churn out stuff for our first Pennsic but I'll come back
        > to it in the post-Pennsic season. If you want to brainstorm over it I'm
        > available via email or we'll be at Pennsic middle weekend and early 2nd
        > week. The basic pretext is I work out what his 'standard bolt width' is
        > and work from there.
        >

        Actually, that's the most problematic issue. In the older garments, fortunately the
        standard bolt width seems to be around 26-28", but with some larger folks, that's
        just barely going to make it. I still will be following the Japanese classification
        of garments (one-panel, two-panel, three-panel, etc.,) identifying how many "panel
        widths" of fabric are used. This comes into play in garments like kariginu and suikan
        (which have one-panel bodies) and ho and noshi (which have two panel bodies) and
        hakama (three-panel vs. four-panel types, etc.)

        The problem is that if you're rotund (like me) or very broad shouldered, "one panel
        wide" fabric wouldn't make a convincing body for a kariginu, but if you expand the
        width of the panel, you grossly will overmake the sleeves (which are 1.5 panels
        wide). So for "atypically shaped" folks, we may have to consider that the panel
        widths actually are a bit "elastic" -- wider for the body, normal for the rest of the
        garment. It sounds confusing, but if I can lay it out clearly, I hope I can get
        people to understand the disjoint between "proper historical measurement" by panels
        and "modern measurement" by flexi-panels.

        > Been muddling along in the dark with some help here and there
        > but so few people do Kamakura, let alone female Kamakura I get mostly
        > general and not specific help.

        Well you can always drop me a line. <G>


        Effingham
      • Rosemary Norwood
        ... Yes. That s exactally how I do it. I take his shoulder and waist measurements, look at the garment I m making and try to deduce how many panels each piece
        Message 3 of 25 , Jul 1 2:24 PM
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          On Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 01:30:43PM -0500, Anthony J. Bryant wrote:
          > Rosemary Norwood wrote:
          >
          > >
          > > This is what I'm in the middle of trying to do for Japanese kids garb -
          > > figure out some kind of formula for what I do when I measure my toddler
          > > up every 3 - 6 months. I know how to make a pattern from his
          > > measurements in about 20 minutes, but I'm trying to make that mental
          > > process make sense to other people. Project's on hold for now as I'm
          > > just trying to churn out stuff for our first Pennsic but I'll come back
          > > to it in the post-Pennsic season. If you want to brainstorm over it I'm
          > > available via email or we'll be at Pennsic middle weekend and early 2nd
          > > week. The basic pretext is I work out what his 'standard bolt width' is
          > > and work from there.
          > >
          >
          > Actually, that's the most problematic issue. In the older garments, fortunately the
          > standard bolt width seems to be around 26-28", but with some larger folks, that's
          > just barely going to make it. I still will be following the Japanese classification
          > of garments (one-panel, two-panel, three-panel, etc.,) identifying how many "panel
          > widths" of fabric are used. This comes into play in garments like kariginu and suikan
          > (which have one-panel bodies) and ho and noshi (which have two panel bodies) and
          > hakama (three-panel vs. four-panel types, etc.)
          >
          > The problem is that if you're rotund (like me) or very broad shouldered, "one panel
          > wide" fabric wouldn't make a convincing body for a kariginu, but if you expand the
          > width of the panel, you grossly will overmake the sleeves (which are 1.5 panels
          > wide). So for "atypically shaped" folks, we may have to consider that the panel
          > widths actually are a bit "elastic" -- wider for the body, normal for the rest of the
          > garment. It sounds confusing, but if I can lay it out clearly, I hope I can get
          > people to understand the disjoint between "proper historical measurement" by panels
          > and "modern measurement" by flexi-panels.
          >

          Yes. That's exactally how I do it. I take his shoulder and waist
          measurements, look at the garment I'm making and try to deduce how many
          panels each piece is constructed of and then work out what would be a
          panel width for him. So far I've worked with Hakama and Kosode based
          garments and this system works very easily.


          > > Been muddling along in the dark with some help here and
          there
          > > but so few people do Kamakura, let alone female Kamakura I get mostly
          > > general and not specific help.
          >
          > Well you can always drop me a line. <G>
          >
          >
          Don't open that can of worms unless you're willing to go there. ;)

          Tatsu
        • Park McKellop
          ... this sort of thing, but I really don t think anyone below the rank of baron or peer should be wearing jinbaori anyway... but that s just me. :) Effingham
          Message 4 of 25 , Apr 29, 2004
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            >Secondarily -- we don't really have sumptuary rules in the SCA that deal with
            this sort of thing, but I really don't think anyone below the rank of baron or
            peer should be wearing jinbaori anyway... but that's just me. :)


            Effingham

            That's not such a bad idea! ;-)

            Alcyoneus



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          • Otagiri Tatsuzou
            ... deal with ... of baron or ... Just remember, in these later days, when the low rise to the high, it s the guys in the jinbaori who will be first up against
            Message 5 of 25 , Apr 30, 2004
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              > >Secondarily -- we don't really have sumptuary rules in the SCA that
              deal with
              > this sort of thing, but I really don't think anyone below the rank
              of baron or
              > peer should be wearing jinbaori anyway... but that's just me. :)
              >
              >
              > Effingham
              >
              > That's not such a bad idea! ;-)
              >
              > Alcyoneus
              >
              >

              Just remember, in these later days, when the low rise to the high,
              it's the guys in the jinbaori who will be first up against the wall.

              Otagiri
            • coyote Silverpaw
              I have a pattern that I use email and I will explain it to you Its very simple and looks great on the field call me coyote, call me raven, call me something
              Message 6 of 25 , Jun 1, 2010
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                I have a pattern that I use
                email and I will explain it to you
                Its very simple and looks great on the field


                call me coyote, call me raven, call me something else
                youd be right, youd be wrong!
                Find something worth dying for, and LIVE for it!





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