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Re: Kesho-Mawashi? and sumo story

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  • Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
    as a postscript i found ... shown live ... Out of curiosity, what year was this? I have seen this play enacted out a few times...(...with all respects to those
    Message 1 of 11 , Jun 1, 2003
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      as a postscript i found
      > out when I got back to the ship that the whole tornement had been
      shown live
      > all over japan.

      Out of curiosity, what year was this? I have seen this play enacted
      out a few times...(...with all respects to those involved... )

      I know the origins of sumo are slightly older than the 1600's...but I
      do not know when the rules were codefied...if a (demi)period demo
      could be had at Pennsic...I would enjoy it...and participate, perhaps...

      Not all of the participants at the school I lived near were of
      "supposedly" traditional sumo perportions...all makes, sizes, and
      models of wrestler were covered... (or uncovered, as it were...)

      The spirit was fierce, and the enthusiasm of the sumo-tori, as well as
      the crowd watching were grand!!!

      Perhaps a not weapon, martial convention might be adopted within the
      SCA...dare we hope?

      more thoughts from a Northern Samurai in service to a greater whole...

      - Date no Saburou Yukiie...
    • iroadkilli@aol.com
      I was stationed in japan from 1980 to 85 I beleave the match was in 82 . I have a few photos from it. I know Jesse was able to get away with a lot since he
      Message 2 of 11 , Jun 1, 2003
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        I was stationed in japan from 1980 to 85 I beleave the match was in 82 . I
        have a few photos from it. I know Jesse was able to get away with a lot since
        he did not have to maintain face as much as the native japanese competetors,
        he was american and seemed to be enjoying himself a lot more than they were.
        the charity bouts I know were yearly and I am pretty sure that the base sumo
        club went to them several times over the years normally to play with Jesse. He
        won the Emperors cup in 1972 and when I met him was setting records as the
        longest competing westler on record.

        The book I refferenced before was Secrets of the Samurai, a survey of the
        martial arts of Feudal Japan, by Oscar Ratti/Adele Westbrook ISBN 0-8048-0917-8


        the Nihon Shoki chronicle compiled in A.D. 720 seems to date wrestling as
        early as 230 BC mostly with religous conotations. most early reference works
        refer to a bout during the 7th year of the reign of Emperor Suinin 29BC-A.D 70.
        between the imperial guard Taema-no-Kuehaya, and Nomi-no-Sukune of Izumo
        province. the match of the time allowed every imaginable technique and only one
        man emerged alive from the encounter. Nomi-no-Sukune broke Kuehaya's ribs and
        then smashed his loins for good measure.

        Sukune is also credited with producing a recognizable system that became the
        foundation for the development and evolution of wrestling along lines still
        evident in sumo today.

        in 858, Emperor Montoku allowed his two sones Korehito and Koretaka, to
        wrestle for the throne by proxy.

        Lethal blows and kicks were banned by imperial decree as "inelegant" during
        the reign of Emperor Shomu.

        In 1570 the ring (dohyo) was introduced and with it the fundamental rules
        establishing ranks, purposes, and basic techniques.

        the minimum size requirement governing recruits state that an aspiring
        sumotori of 18 or younger must be at lest 170 cm (5'8") tall and weigh at lest 70
        Kilos (154 lb) over 18 must be 173cm and 75kilos but that is to be a
        professional.

        In a message dated 6/1/03 4:39:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kabuto@...
        writes:

        > Out of curiosity, what year was this? I have seen this play enacted
        > out a few times...(...with all respects to those involved... )
        >
        > I know the origins of sumo are slightly older than the 1600's...but I
        > do not know when the rules were codefied...if a (demi)period demo
        > could be had at Pennsic...I would enjoy it...and participate, perhaps...
        >
        > Not all of the participants at the school I lived near were of
        > "supposedly" traditional sumo perportions...all makes, sizes, and
        > models of wrestler were covered... (or uncovered, as it were...)
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Richard Brooks
        Pretty wild:) I ve got a picture somewhere of a sumo wrestler being shoved out of the ring by several kids, I think it s from a canadian Sumo school someplace.
        Message 3 of 11 , Jun 1, 2003
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          Pretty wild:) I've got a picture somewhere of a sumo wrestler being
          shoved out of the ring by several kids, I think it's from a canadian
          Sumo school someplace. Kinda cute, really.
          Just out of curiousity, are the traditional mawashi comfortable to wear
          at all? A few of my friends were debating this the other day.
          As for length, I've got a feeling that ten yards would be way too long
          for somebody who's only average sized, as opposed to Sumo proportions. I
          imagine anyone with an under 40" waist would need a bit less.

          -Amanita aka Hirokawa no Tsuru
        • Solveig
          Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! That story has to be pretty old. Takamiyama retired a long long time ago. Takamiyama was pretty popular, but he was
          Message 4 of 11 , Jun 1, 2003
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            Noble Cousin!

            Greetings from Solveig! That story has to be pretty old. Takamiyama retired
            a long long time ago. Takamiyama was pretty popular, but he was seriously
            over the hill a year or so before he retired. They tried to rig a tournament
            in his favor so that he could have a good send off. But he lost and shortly
            after that we was loosing almost all of his bouts and as I recall was
            actually demoted from the Seki no Uchi division before he finally gave up.

            All of the professional Sumo wrestlers are big boys. There are minimum
            height and weight requirements which assure this.
            --

            Your Humble Servant
            Solveig Throndardottir
            Amateur Scholar

            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
            | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
            | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
            | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
            +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
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          • Solveig
            Date Dono! Greetings from Solveig! ... The origins of Sumo are MUCh older than 1600. Sumo appears to go back to pre-historical Japan. That does not mean that
            Message 5 of 11 , Jun 1, 2003
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              Date Dono!

              Greetings from Solveig!
              >I know the origins of sumo are slightly older than the 1600's...but I
              >do not know when the rules were codefied...if a (demi)period demo
              >could be had at Pennsic...I would enjoy it...and participate, perhaps...

              The origins of Sumo are MUCh older than 1600. Sumo appears to go back
              to pre-historical Japan. That does not mean that modern Sumo predates
              the 19th century.
              --

              Your Humble Servant
              Solveig Throndardottir
              Amateur Scholar

              +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
              | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
              | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
              | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
              +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
              | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
              | the trash by my email filters. |
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            • Solveig
              Bad Solveig! That was the maki no uchi division. Watch what you time in future! -- Your Humble Servant Solveig Throndardottir Amateur Scholar
              Message 6 of 11 , Jun 1, 2003
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                Bad Solveig!

                That was the maki'no'uchi division. Watch what you time in future!
                --

                Your Humble Servant
                Solveig Throndardottir
                Amateur Scholar

                +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                | the trash by my email filters. |
                +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
              • iroadkilli@aol.com
                I have to admit the story shows my age as well. although 20 years didnt fill very long ago. The standards dont really require big guys the minimum size
                Message 7 of 11 , Jun 1, 2003
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                  I have to admit the story shows my age as well. although 20 years didnt fill
                  very long ago.

                  The standards dont really require big guys the minimum size requirement
                  governing recruits state that an aspiring
                  sumotori of 18 or younger must be at lest 170 cm (5'8") tall and weigh at
                  lest 70 Kilos (154 lb) over 18 must be 173cm and 75kilos



                  In a message dated 6/1/03 1:31:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nostrand@...
                  writes:

                  > Greetings from Solveig! That story has to be pretty old. Takamiyama retired
                  > a long long time ago. Takamiyama was pretty popular, but he was seriously
                  > over the hill a year or so before he retired. They tried to rig a tournament
                  > in his favor so that he could have a good send off. But he lost and shortly
                  > after that we was loosing almost all of his bouts and as I recall was
                  > actually demoted from the Seki no Uchi division before he finally gave up.
                  >
                  > All of the professional Sumo wrestlers are big boys. There are minimum
                  > height and weight requirements which assure this.
                  > --
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Richard Brooks
                  Just how heavy is mawashi fabric anyway? Especially the nice silk ones. Is it similar in weight to cotton broadcloth? Bridal satin, or taffetta? Authentic silk
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jun 1, 2003
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                    Just how heavy is mawashi fabric anyway? Especially the nice silk ones.
                    Is it similar in weight to cotton broadcloth? Bridal satin, or taffetta?
                    Authentic silk satin is not something I can find around here, so I need
                    a good substitute that will approximate the weight and feel of the
                    originals. It also has to hold a knot well, so it does not slip.
                    Preferably something washable, as dry cleaning a stack of mawashi after
                    an SCA event would no doubt be a PITA, as well as expensive.

                    -Hirokawa no Tsuru
                  • ELAINE KOOGLER
                    If you really want silk satin, I believe that Thai silks has it...and at a fairly reasonable price. Their URL is www.thaisilks.com, and they are great to do
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jun 2, 2003
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                      If you really want silk satin, I believe that Thai silks has it...and
                      at a fairly reasonable price. Their URL is www.thaisilks.com, and they
                      are great to do business with!

                      Kiri



                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Richard Brooks <rjb@...>
                      Date: Sunday, June 1, 2003 11:49 pm
                      Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Kesho-Mawashi? and sumo story

                      > <span><p><span><p>
                      >
                      >
                      > <tt>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Just how heavy is mawashi fabric anyway? Especially the nice silk
                      > ones.
                      > Is it similar in weight to cotton broadcloth? Bridal satin, or
                      > taffetta?
                      > Authentic silk satin is not something I can find around here, so I
                      > need
                      > a good substitute that will approximate the weight and feel of the
                      >
                      > originals. It also has to hold a knot well, so it does not slip.
                      >
                      > Preferably something washable, as dry cleaning a stack of mawashi
                      > after
                      > an SCA event would no doubt be a PITA, as well as expensive.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > -Hirokawa no Tsuru
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > </tt>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
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                    • Solveig
                      Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... Those are not exactly itty bitty people. And, they are young and still growing. Add to that the weight-gain regimin
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jun 3, 2003
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                        Noble Cousin!

                        Greetings from Solveig!
                        > The standards dont really require big guys the minimum size requirement
                        >governing recruits state that an aspiring
                        >sumotori of 18 or younger must be at lest 170 cm (5'8") tall and weigh at
                        >lest 70 Kilos (154 lb) over 18 must be 173cm and 75kilos

                        Those are not exactly itty bitty people. And, they are young and still
                        growing. Add to that the weight-gain regimin they put them through and
                        they turn out pretty big. Even the little ones are usually big boys
                        by the time they make it into the juuryou division.
                        --

                        Your Humble Servant
                        Solveig Throndardottir
                        Amateur Scholar

                        +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                        | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
                        | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
                        | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
                        +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
                        | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
                        | the trash by my email filters. |
                        +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
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