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Re: [SCA-JML] First Japanese in Europe

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  • Ii Saburou
    ... There are two bits: one, is that 1600 is the beginning of the 17th Century, and the rule in the SCA is pre-17th century (which generally means Edo Period),
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 18, 2003
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      On Tue, 18 Mar 2003, txsamurai wrote:

      > Hmmm, tough crowd here (^_^).
      >
      > There does not seem to be much interest about the reference to a
      > Japanese settlement in Spain that was established in 1613 [ or maybe
      > this is considered old news m(_ _)m gomen nasai ] in my earlier post.

      There are two bits: one, is that 1600 is the beginning of the 17th
      Century, and the rule in the SCA is pre-17th century (which generally
      means Edo Period), so I think most people don't look past 1600 for
      references like this (don't get me wrong, it is cool, but it is sadly post
      period for our uses). The second was that I have been pretty busy, so
      really haven't read everything all that thoroughly.

      > I have not seen this information posted here so it might be news.
      >
      > The first Japanese visitor to visit Europe was a samurai named
      > Bernardo in the year 1554 (^^)v. In 1555 he met with Pope Paul and
      > Ignacio Loyola in Rome m(_ _)m. He passed away in 1557 in Coimbra,
      > Portugal <(_ _)>

      Do you have a source for this? When quoting stuff like this it is best to
      give a source.

      The problem still remains: we know the names of the Japanese of any
      considerable rank who made it to Europe in Period.

      That's why my typical explanation of 'how did you get here?' is something
      like: "Yesterday I was in Owari, today I am here." And when they say, "So
      you came on a boat?" I reply "Yesterday I was in Owari, today I am here."

      Fujiwara-hime used a similar argument with her persona: she just took an
      ox-cart and showed up at in the Knowne World. It isn't actually Europe,
      it is just a 'middle world' based generally on Western European cultures.

      > Usually the first mention of a visit to Europe is by the four princes
      > in 1582 and no mention is made of this earlier visit.

      Which is why I'm really interested in the source. I ould have thought we
      would have seen more mention of it.

      On the other hand, we find Japanese in many odd places. I believe it was
      a Japanese Christian convert in India who is credited with encouraging the
      Basque Francis Xavier into coming on a mission to Japan.

      -Ii
    • Warrior_of_bushido
      hmmmm???????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Park McKellop wrote: Glendour told me of seeing a photo in a book of the inside of a tipi
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 19, 2003
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        hmmmm???????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
        Park McKellop <squire009@...> wrote:
        Glendour told me of seeing a photo in a book of the inside of a tipi from the period with a katana on display. No, he can't remember the book.
        Alcyoneus
        Solveig wrote:Noble Cousin!

        Greetings from Solveig!

        >And i read somewhere that in the 1860s a group of samurai on a
        >diplomatic mission visted the USA.. I lost the photo during a
        >computer crash though
        >Laura

        That was after Commodore Perry and before the Meiji Restoration. I have a
        copy of the photograph in a book. The Japanese were impressed by the vast
        expanse of various formal rooms without supporting pillars or posts.
        --

        Your Humble Servant
        Solveig Throndardottir
        Amateur Scholar

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