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[SCA-JML] Nandesuka.

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  • Ron Martino
    Who were, or are, the Shindai? I ve recently come across a reference to them, but can not find any information. Yumitori -- yumitori@montana.com - Ask me how
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 10, 2000
      Who were, or are, the Shindai? I've recently come across a reference to
      them, but can not find any information.

      Yumitori

      --
      yumitori@... - Ask me how to get paid for surfing the Internet.
    • Anthony J. Bryant
      ... What s the context? The shindai I m most familiar with is a bed platform... Effingham
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 10, 2000
        Ron Martino wrote:

        > Who were, or are, the Shindai? I've recently come across a reference to
        > them, but can not find any information.

        What's the context? The shindai I'm most familiar with is a bed platform...


        Effingham
      • Ron Martino
        ... They are supposed to be some sort religious class. This link basically gives as much context as I have - http://kids.infoplease.com/ce5/CE031295.html
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 10, 2000
          > > Who were, or are, the Shindai? I've recently come across a reference to
          > > them, but can not find any information.
          >
          > What's the context? The shindai I'm most familiar with is a bed platform...
          >
          > Effingham

          They are supposed to be some sort religious class. This link basically
          gives as much context as I have -

          http://kids.infoplease.com/ce5/CE031295.html

          Yumitori

          --
          yumitori@... - Ask me how to get paid for surfing the Internet.
        • Anthony J. Bryant
          ... Or are you referring to the priests? There is a Japanese pronunciation of a Chinese word for a class of Indian priests of the Brahman caste
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 10, 2000
            "Anthony J. Bryant" wrote:

            > Ron Martino wrote:
            >
            > > Who were, or are, the Shindai? I've recently come across a reference to
            > > them, but can not find any information.
            >
            > What's the context? The shindai I'm most familiar with is a bed platform...

            Or are you referring to the priests? There is a Japanese pronunciation of a Chinese
            word for a class of Indian priests of the Brahman caste (prada-something..., IIRC),
            but I don't think they were active in Japan...


            Effingham
          • Anthony J. Bryant
            ... Ah, okay, then the term comes from the Brahmin priests. I just looked it up. The Sanskrit name is Parâmartha. Many Japanese texts list it as Shintai
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 10, 2000
              Ron Martino wrote:

              > > > Who were, or are, the Shindai? I've recently come across a reference to
              > > > them, but can not find any information.
              > >
              > > What's the context? The shindai I'm most familiar with is a bed platform...
              > >
              > > Effingham
              >
              > They are supposed to be some sort religious class. This link basically
              > gives as much context as I have -

              Ah, okay, then the term comes from the Brahmin priests.

              I just looked it up. The Sanskrit name is "Parâmartha."

              Many Japanese texts list it as "Shintai" rather than "Shindai."

              It's a Buddhist term, and in classical Japanese, it means, basically,
              "abandoned/given-over to the truth" and is the antithesis to "zokutai" which is "given
              over to vulgar/worldly things." It's dispassion and abandonment to pure reason.

              Here's a definition from
              <http://www.human.toyogakuen-u.ac.jp/~acmuller/dicts/bdict/data/109.htm>

              ·¡í· [py] Zhen1di4 [wg] Chen-ti [ko] Chinch'e [ja] ÉVÉìÉ^ÉC Shintai ||| (1) The
              absolute truth, holy truth. Reality as perceived by enlightened people
              (paramaartha-satya). See èüã`í·. (2) Paramaartha (499-569), also read Shindai in
              Japanese. A scholar-monk of brahmanbackground from Ujayinii in the Avanti region of
              Western India, who become one of the "four great translators" in Chinese Buddhist
              history. After traveling throughout India, he came to Guangzhou by sea route in 546.
              In response to the request of the emperor Wu of Liang ó¿ïêíÈ (r. 502-549) of the
              southern court, he came to Jiankang åöçN where he undertook the translation of
              Buddhist texts as a way of bringing peace to a land long torn by military struggles.
              Among the 64 works in the 278 fascicles that he translated, were such influential
              scriptural texts as the Suvarna-prabhaasa-(uttama)-suutra ã?åiñæ„S, the
              haayaana-samgraha ùêëÂò©ò_ and the Madhyaanta-vibhaaga íÜÁ?ï™ï ò_. He is also
              attributed with the translation of the Awakening of Mahaayaana Faith ëÂò©ãNêMò_, but
              there is some doubt about this. His work on the Mahaayaana-samgraha would cause that
              text to become very influential as an arbiter of the Mahaayaana/Hiinayaana discussion,
              such that Paramaartha would eventually come to be regarded as the founder of the
              Mahaayaana-samgraha school ùêò_è@. [Dictionary References] iwa467b Iwa467 [Credit]
              cmuller(entry)

              So it doesn't seem to refer to a japanse class per se....

              Effingham
            • Ron Martino
              ... ... Well, that helps. I couldn t figure out how they were getting the lost tribes of Israel in Japan. Perhaps they thought somehow that since there
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 10, 2000
                > Ah, okay, then the term comes from the Brahmin priests.
                >
                > I just looked it up. The Sanskrit name is "Parâmartha."
                >
                > Many Japanese texts list it as "Shintai" rather than "Shindai."

                <snip>

                > So it doesn't seem to refer to a japanse class per se....
                >
                > Effingham

                Well, that helps. I couldn't figure out how they were getting the lost
                tribes of Israel in Japan. Perhaps they thought somehow that since there
                was a name for the Brahmin in Japan, there must have been ones who
                immigrated there...

                Much thanks.

                Yumitori

                --
                yumitori@... - Ask me how to get paid for surfing the Internet.
              • Anthony J. Bryant
                ... Yes, I looked up the article. They seem to have misunderstood what Shindai/Shintai is... Effingham
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 10, 2000
                  Ron Martino wrote:

                  >
                  > Well, that helps. I couldn't figure out how they were getting the lost
                  > tribes of Israel in Japan. Perhaps they thought somehow that since there
                  > was a name for the Brahmin in Japan, there must have been ones who
                  > immigrated there...

                  Yes, I looked up the article. They seem to have misunderstood what
                  Shindai/Shintai is...

                  Effingham
                • Takewara no Ken'ichiro Yoshinobu
                  anthony j. bryant wrote: original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/sca-jml/?start=936 ... getting the lost ... there ... ????? I
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 11, 2000
                    "anthony j. bryant" <ajbryan-@...> wrote:
                    original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/sca-jml/?start=936
                    > Ron Martino wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    > > Well, that helps. I couldn't figure out how they were
                    getting the lost
                    > > tribes of Israel in Japan. Perhaps they thought somehow that since
                    there
                    > > was a name for the Brahmin in Japan, there must have been ones who
                    > > immigrated there...

                    ?????
                    I must have missed something here... Could someone explain to me
                    exactly what the hell Yumitori is talking about? (Israelis in Japan?
                    Japanese Jews? Does this mean that I can wear a kosode and a yarmulke
                    and be in period?)
                    (Take that one in the same spirit as the Viking luau, and the
                    Celtic Jihad...)

                    -Yoshinobu
                  • Ron Martino
                    ... Did you get the previous message with the link? The basic point is that there are ten lost Israel tribes or houses (go to
                    Message 9 of 10 , Mar 11, 2000
                      > I must have missed something here... Could someone explain to me
                      > exactly what the hell Yumitori is talking about? (Israelis in Japan?
                      > Japanese Jews? Does this mean that I can wear a kosode and a yarmulke
                      > and be in period?)
                      > (Take that one in the same spirit as the Viking luau, and the
                      > Celtic Jihad...)
                      >
                      > -Yoshinobu

                      Did you get the previous message with the link? The basic point is that
                      there are ten 'lost' Israel tribes or houses (go to
                      http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mtentribes.html

                      for a detailed history). Various groups have been proposed as the
                      descendants of these tribes, including the 'holy Shindai class in Japan'
                      according to some sources. Not knowing who the Shindai (or Shintai)
                      were, I asked, especially since the claim seemed so outrageous.

                      Yumitori

                      --
                      yumitori@... - Ask me how to get paid for surfing the Internet.
                    • Barbara Nostrand
                      Noble Cousins! Well, if you insist upon getting into nihonron, there are all sorts of wild theories about the Japanese and the Japanese language. One of them
                      Message 10 of 10 , Mar 12, 2000
                        Noble Cousins!

                        Well, if you insist upon getting into nihonron, there are all sorts
                        of wild theories about the Japanese and the Japanese language. One
                        of them holds that Japanese is descended from Sanskrit. One theory
                        which was sort of popular in the 80's was that the Japanese or at
                        least one particular priestly group were descended from the ancient
                        Israelites. This notion was supported by comparisons between shofar
                        and conch shell horns, a distinctive hat worn on mid-forhead by
                        this particular group in Japan, &c. Basically, it is a crackpot
                        theory. Linguistically, Japanese is Ural-Altaic and Hebrew is
                        Semetic. Further, there are pleanty of other sources for cultural
                        similartities including such things as the Persians and earlier
                        on the Sumerians. There are fairly reliable attestations to
                        contact between Japan and the Persian Gulf in early imperial
                        Japan. Basically, stuff spreads out from the middle east.
                        (So what else is new?) One of the persistent features of nihonron
                        is not just this business of being monogenetic and oh-so-special,
                        but also a frequent insistence that Japan had to have been in on
                        lots of famous activity. For example, there are folks who speculate
                        that the Polo's visited Japan.

                        Your Humble Servant
                        Solveig Throndardottir
                        Amateur Scholar

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