• Does anyone know of a way to estimate how much cording (laces hehe) I would need to make a do if the corded plate/lame style? (I forget the proper name for
Message 1 of 11 , Feb 18, 2003
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Does anyone know of a way to estimate how much cording (laces hehe) I would
need to make a do if the corded plate/lame style? (I forget the proper name
for this style :/ ).
I would like to go with this style, however if I can't afford all of the
cording right now I will just go with a "solid" do.

I am 5'9", 165Lbs. If that can help anyone throw a guess my way ^_^.
Any formulas/quasi-formulas ;) you all have used to figure cording amount
would be appreciated.

arigato gozaimasu,
Ash
• ... What I did: I figured the height of the armour, then multiplied that by the number of rows of lacing I would need of any particular color, and gennerally
Message 2 of 11 , Feb 18, 2003
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On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Ash Smith wrote:

> Does anyone know of a way to estimate how much cording (laces hehe) I would
> need to make a do if the corded plate/lame style? (I forget the proper name
> for this style :/ ).
> I would like to go with this style, however if I can't afford all of the
> cording right now I will just go with a "solid" do.

What I did: I figured the 'height' of the armour, then multiplied that by
the number of rows of lacing I would need of any particular color, and
gennerally doubled that for good measure.

That seemed to work well, as I recall. At the same time, I have TONS of
replacement cording around (not a bad thing). Of course, I didn't

-Ii
• ... Well, there s a big difference between the lacing for an okegawa do (solid cuirass) and a mogami do (sparse laced cuirass) and a kebiki do (a do of lames
Message 3 of 11 , Feb 18, 2003
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Ash Smith wrote:

> Does anyone know of a way to estimate how much cording (laces hehe) I would
> need to make a do if the corded plate/lame style? (I forget the proper name
> for this style :/ ).

Well, there's a big difference between the lacing for an okegawa do (solid
cuirass) and a mogami do (sparse laced cuirass) and a kebiki do (a do of lames
laced full).

With "corded plate/lame style" it could be any of these. <G>

Why not jump over to http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/0.Katchu.html and
find the one you're thinking of so we can all be on the same page.

>
> I would like to go with this style, however if I can't afford all of the
> cording right now I will just go with a "solid" do.
>

Well, given that, you don't have much lacing. You should lay out on graph
paper one set of kuzazuri in full size. Among other points, doing that at 1:1
scale will give you the chance to see if you'll need more or fewer sets of
lacing to "look right" (e.g., four sets of 1/4" lace would look too wimpy, or
what have you) and then trace out the amount of lace per set and start
multiplying. Then add about 50% for the cut ends, the fraying, and the
left-over bits.

Effingham
• ... Something on the order of the basic yoroi that we use (http://www.nb.net/~kmeg/kaminari/Armor/preface.html) takes on the order of 200 yards, including
Message 4 of 11 , Feb 18, 2003
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On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Ash Smith wrote:

> Does anyone know of a way to estimate how much cording (laces hehe) I
> would need to make a do if the corded plate/lame style? (I forget
> the proper name for this style :/ ).
> I would like to go with this style, however if I can't afford all of the
> cording right now I will just go with a "solid" do.

Something on the order of the basic yoroi that we use
(http://www.nb.net/~kmeg/kaminari/Armor/preface.html) takes on the
order of 200 yards, including haidate and suneate; something like
Sir Oagmi's goes something more like 225 - 250 yds, and mine 250 - 300
yds, just because of the larger amounts of lacing in the sode and do.
(http://www.nb.net/~kmeg/kaminari/Penn31/walk.JPG, the Japanese
knights on the left and right respectively, though there may well be
*huge* amounts of lacing in Ogami's haidate)

> I am 5'9", 165Lbs. If that can help anyone throw a guess my way ^_^.
> Any formulas/quasi-formulas ;) you all have used to figure cording
> amount would be appreciated.

The ammount of lacing really doesn't change that much assuming
you're within one (or maybe even two) standard deivations of the norm
for an American adult (male) - for the not statistically include among
you, 'within one standard deviation' means 'the middle 50%' and
'within two standard deviations' means 'the middle 75%'; this
translates to (approximately) from 5' 5" / 130# to 6' 3" / 275#.

> arigato gozaimasu,
> Ash

Sir Koredono

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don Luby Magariki Katsuichi no Koredono, KSCA
djl@... Yama-kaminari-ryu
Pittsburgh, PA Debatable Lands, AEthelmearc
• ... That s a little much, IMO - 50% is generally safe - that ll cover the extra amount needed for crossing and working room (the actual lacing process and
Message 5 of 11 , Feb 18, 2003
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On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Ii Saburou wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Ash Smith wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know of a way to estimate how much cording (laces hehe)
>> I would need to make a do if the corded plate/lame style? (I forget
>> the proper name for this style :/ ).
>> I would like to go with this style, however if I can't afford all of
>> the cording right now I will just go with a "solid" do.
>
> What I did: I figured the 'height' of the armour, then multiplied
> that by the number of rows of lacing I would need of any particular
> color, and gennerally doubled that for good measure.

That's a little much, IMO - 50% is generally safe - that'll cover
the extra amount needed for crossing and 'working room' (the actual
lacing process and tying off later). At least, that's on the order of
what I do for when I'm cutting out the individual laces for making a do.

> That seemed to work well, as I recall. At the same time, I have
> TONS of replacement cording around (not a bad thing).

Nope. Which is why I buy my lacing on the 100 yd spool, and have
enough for several full suits just sitting in my workshop.

> Of course, I didn't entirely follow my estimate, either.
>
> -Ii

Sir Koredono

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don Luby Magariki Katsuichi no Koredono, KSCA
djl@... Yama-kaminari-ryu
Pittsburgh, PA Debatable Lands, AEthelmearc
• Greetings, tomodachi... I have a penchant for Kebiki laced Japanese armor, and am one of the few crazy people stubborn enough to sit down and do it...Thus...
Message 6 of 11 , Feb 18, 2003
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Greetings, tomodachi...
I have a penchant' for Kebiki laced Japanese armor, and am one of the
few crazy people stubborn enough to sit down and do it...Thus...
A single 12x16" - 7 lame Osode piece I recently built had 756 inches
of 1/4" lacing. It was laced in kebiki style, with a total of 924
drilled holes. This piece had a kanmuri ita on top, which was cross
laced with hishinui (x shaped knots) and the bottom lame laced with
two rows of hishinui and a single row of holes for the "woodpecker
braid." The outside edges are also laced in "woodpecker braid."
If this were multiplied times two, for left and right shoulders, there
would be 1516 inches of 1/4" lace invested in just the shoulder pieces.
The rest of the armor was laced in a similar way, so you can see what
the totals would be for such an adventure.
Taking Koredono-gimi's lead, I too use spools of lacing, which is less
expensive than buying individual pairs of shoe lace, and easier to
work with.
I hope this helps...
Date Saburou Yukiie

Shi wa hei to de aru - all are equal in the grave
http://www.kabutographics.com
kabuto@...
• ... I cannot take credit for the spool of lacing idea - that belongs to Sir Ogami, and I believe that the information on how to order it is on the relevant
Message 7 of 11 , Feb 18, 2003
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On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie <kabuto@...> wrote:

> Greetings, tomodachi...

> Taking Koredono-gimi's lead, I too use spools of lacing, which is less
> expensive than buying individual pairs of shoe lace, and easier to
> work with.

I cannot take credit for the 'spool of lacing' idea - that belongs
to Sir Ogami, and I believe that the information on how to order it is
on the relevant Yama Kaminari armor page. Also, that is (or at least
was) the same lacing that baron Soiichirou uses (used) for his armor,
and apparently comes in about 40 different colors.

> I hope this helps...
> Date Saburou Yukiie
>
> Shi wa hei to de aru - all are equal in the grave
> http://www.kabutographics.com
> kabuto@...

Koredono

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don Luby Magariki Katsuichi no Koredono, KSCA
djl@... Yama-kaminari-ryu
Pittsburgh, PA Debatable Lands, AEthelmearc
• Thanks for all of your replies. I am refering to a Maru Do of kozane construction. I am looking at buying two gross of lacing... so I d have roughly 288 yards
Message 8 of 11 , Feb 18, 2003
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Thanks for all of your replies.

I am refering to a Maru Do of kozane construction.
I am looking at buying two gross of lacing... so I'd have roughly 288 yards
(144 yards of each color I intend to use).

Think that would be enough?

arigato gozaimasu
(watashi wa nihongoga shikoshi wakarimas (thanks to Pimsluer :P )
• Keep in mind that if you are frugal, and lace your armor in sugake (sparse) style, you might be able to pull off a good looking armor. You might have to make
Message 9 of 11 , Feb 19, 2003
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Keep in mind that if you are frugal, and lace your armor in sugake
(sparse) style, you might be able to pull off a good looking armor.
You might have to make calculations as to how many pairs of lacing
will cover a given area...this will come from your actual usage tests...
The numnbers you quote will not cover a great area of armor, but might
be enough to accomplish a good set of latter period gusoku. If you
want to actually cover each Kozane, you will be seriously lacking in
lacing. If you are building an armor that uses kozane, but is laced
to mearly suspend the lames below it, without placing lacing in each
piece of kozane, then you have a chance.
I hope this helps, and I will be more than happy to assist you, if you
need it.

Yama Kaminari no Date Saburou Yukiie
Shi wa hei to de aru - all are equal in the grave...
http://www.kabutographics.com
kabuto@...
• ... Sure, that s sounds like a very safe estimate to me, though having it in pre-cut 1 yd lengths may make it less efficient. But, how much is that costing
Message 10 of 11 , Feb 19, 2003
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On Wed, 19 Feb 2003, Ash Smith wrote:

> Thanks for all of your replies.
>
> I am refering to a Maru Do of kozane construction.
> I am looking at buying two gross of lacing... so I'd have roughly 288
> yards (144 yards of each color I intend to use).
>
> Think that would be enough?

Sure, that's sounds like a very safe estimate to me, though having
it in pre-cut 1 yd lengths may make it less efficient. But, how much
is that costing you? As an example, the place where we buy our lacing
from charges \$70 (approx) for a 1000 yd spool; if it's costing you
more than \$0.25 per lace, it's just flat out cheaper to buy the spool,
and if it's costing you more than \$0.07 per lace then to total gross
amount will be cheaper. And speaking from pesonal experience, it's
hard to go wrong with having extra lace around, especially for when
you build that higher-end *really* cool yoroi :)

> arigato gozaimasu
> (watashi wa nihongoga shikoshi wakarimas (thanks to Pimsluer :P )

Sir Koredono

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don Luby Magariki Katsuichi no Koredono, KSCA
djl@... Yama-kaminari-ryu
Pittsburgh, PA Debatable Lands, AEthelmearc
• Just from lacesforless.com It is about \$30 for a 144yard spool (not pre-cut). So that s like \$0.20/yard. Where do you get your 1000 yard spools from, and how
Message 11 of 11 , Feb 19, 2003
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Just from lacesforless.com
It is about \$30 for a 144yard spool (not pre-cut). So that's like
\$0.20/yard.

Where do you get your 1000 yard spools from, and how much do they run you?
(If you don't mind sharing that is)
Thanks,
Ash

> Sure, that's sounds like a very safe estimate to me, though having
> it in pre-cut 1 yd lengths may make it less efficient. But, how much
> is that costing you? As an example, the place where we buy our lacing
> from charges \$70 (approx) for a 1000 yd spool; if it's costing you
> more than \$0.25 per lace, it's just flat out cheaper to buy the spool,
> and if it's costing you more than \$0.07 per lace then to total gross
> amount will be cheaper. And speaking from pesonal experience, it's
> hard to go wrong with having extra lace around, especially for when
> you build that higher-end *really* cool yoroi :)
>
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