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[SCA-JML] Re: Re: Adventurous ancestors!

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  • Barbara Nostrand
    Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! ... Classifying the Japanese language is fraught with politics. There are people who would prefer the Japanese to have
    Message 1 of 56 , Dec 2, 2002
      Noble Cousin!

      Greetings from Solveig!

      >Where is this? Just curious since the classification of the Japanese
      >language is also a touchy subject and different authors have various
      >strange spins on it. There is at least one book out that lists a
      >dozen plus Japanese origin theories with citations and quotes. My
      >favorite is that the Japanese are one of the lost tribes of Israel
      >along with the mysterious horse nomads that show up one day in Japan
      >without ever passing through a China that is already writing
      >histories.

      Classifying the Japanese language is fraught with politics. There are people
      who would prefer the Japanese to have been separately evolved from the
      Japanese monkey. As I recall, Nakasone was just about arguing for independent
      invention of language in Japan in some of his public speeches. My own
      prefered notion is that Japanese is actually a Ural-Altai/Austronesian
      hybrid. The arguments for Austronesian usually center around phonology and
      a variety of specialized words. This makes Japanese similar to English
      in etiology. It places fusion 500 or more years earlier than English and
      fuses languages from two distinct major language groups as opposed to
      English which fuses Germanic and Romance langauges which are both part
      of Indo-European. Roy Andrew Miller relates Japanese to the Tungus branch
      of Proto-Altaic. Ono argues for an Austronesian-Dravidic-Altaic
      hybrid. Basically, I agree with the Yayoi immigrant theory which has
      the Yayoi people immigrating to Japan begining about 300-200 BCE and
      bringing with them a Koguryo-type Altaic language.

      Other more radical theories exist including discredited theories placing
      Japanese in the Indo-European group. A recent innovation aligns Japanese
      with Tibeto-Burman.

      As for linked-log buildings. They appear as an early post-Jomon building
      type. This type was later abandoned in favour of a more Chinese style of
      architecture. These buildings are documented in just about any Architectural
      history of Japan. While I had long known about linked log buildings in
      Scandinavia, I had not made a connection until I read about their use by
      the Turks. (As I recall it was the Turks.)

      You will note that Mongolian and Turkic are geographically continuous
      in principal domain and that Magyar is supposably the result of a
      Westward migration from China. Aside from a national foundation mythos
      linking Magyar speakers to China, they also use Sino/Korean/Japanese
      name order. The modern geographical separation abetween Mongolian and
      Korean is actually quite small, so all you need is a nomadic period
      (easily arranged for Mongols) during a period of weak Chinese government
      (easily arranged in China) and you have tribes of Ural-Altaic speakers
      in Korea. This is especially likely as this is a frontier area for
      early China. The entirity of the hypothetical migration path lies well
      outside the great wall. Finally, the rivers even run the right way.

      A final question has to be asked about Ainu. This appears to be a
      linguistic isolate and is a likely candidate for being the language
      of the Jomon period in at least parts of Japan. Unfortunately, I don't
      recall maps of Jomon pottery distribution. Hattori notes a substantial
      gap between the Ainu dialects of Hokkaidou and those of Shakalin. This
      along with the language being an apparent isolate suggests a relatively
      early entry time for the Ainu.
      --

      Your Humble Servant
      Solveig Throndardottir
      Amateur Scholar

      +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
      | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
      | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
      | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
      +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
      | Note. Many popular "free" email services are automatically routed to |
      | the trash by my email filters. |
      +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
    • Jordan Malokofsky
      Ii-dono, I occasionally get the early messages out of order as well; however, I can t imagine that there is a problem with Yahoo. Else, how did the others
      Message 56 of 56 , Dec 19, 2002
        Ii-dono,

        I occasionally get the early messages out of order as well; however,
        I can't imagine that there is a problem with Yahoo. Else, how did the
        others receive the message to reply to? I assume that either A) the
        messages are slow enough to deliver to some mail servers that others
        reply back to the original and that mail goes through faster than the
        original, or B) the time stamp for several of the users are not
        configured correctly, and the e-mail program sorts by date. Thus, the
        original will flag at the right time, but the reply is incorrectly set
        as before the original, or the original is incorrectly set to a future
        time, thus letting replies sort before it.
        Let me know if anyone else has any more insight on this.

        --
        Jordan Malokofsky
        Hayes Lemmerz International, Inc.
        (734) 737-5821


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Ii Saburou [mailto:logan@...]
        Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 7:15 AM
        To: sca-jml@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [SCA-JML] Re: Looking for Koto music...


        > ----- Original Message -----
        >
        > That brings up a question I have for everyone: What sorts of
        Japanese
        > musical instruments do people have on this list? I have a
        Shakuhachi
        > (well, Shaku-shichi or Shaku-roku, since it's tuned a western whole
        > step higher) made by a flute-maker more as an experiment than an
        > authentic instrument.
        >
        > And I take it Ii has a Koto?

        I'm only renting one at the moment. Eventually I'll have enough money
        to
        buy one.

        -Ii

        PS: Is anyone else out there getting messages out of order from Yahoo!?

        I have missed the originals on several threads so far, and I need to see

        if it is Yahoo! or my e-mail host.


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