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Re: [SCA-JML] Strugling with putting together acceptable Title

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  • Barbara Nostrand
    Noble Cousin! Greetings from Solveig! Exactly what are you trying to do? Are you inventing a game or trying to write manga? I am a bit confused. Regardless,
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 1, 2002
      Noble Cousin!

      Greetings from Solveig!

      Exactly what are you trying to do? Are you inventing a game or trying
      to write manga? I am a bit confused. Regardless, Kagetaka sounds like
      a real nanori. This is both good and bad. Good if you are trying to
      come up with a real nanori. Bad if you want Shadow Hawk to spring to
      mind in a Japanese context. Shadow in naming generally has a strong
      Buddhist context which is most likely at odds with what you are trying
      to do.

      As for other things. One place where clan affiliation shows up in
      Sengoku period names is in the yobina. The yobina is the middle name
      in three part names used by male Buke (warrior class) of the period.
      If you are interested in a Japanese name, then you should consider
      obtaining a copy of either "Name Construction in Medieval Japan" or
      "Japanese Names and How to Read Them" either by interlibrary loan or
      by purchasing copies. If those books are too formidable, there is
      an introduction to Japanese naming practices in "A Japanese Miscellany"
      in the "Complete Anachronist" series and there are also notes about
      Japanese names posted to the Academy of St. Gabriel web page. If you
      are interested in cultural aspects of naming, then "Japan's Name Culture"
      is a good place to start.
      --

      Your Humble Servant
      Solveig Throndardottir
      Amateur Scholar

      +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
      | Barbara Nostrand, Ph.D. | Solveig Throndardottir, CoM, CoS |
      | deMoivre Institute | Carolingia Statis Mentis Est |
      | mailto:nostrand@... | mailto:bnostran@... |
      +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
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      | the trash by my email filters. |
      +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
    • Ii Saburou
      ... Title is usually used for something like Lord , Minister of the Right , or Left Gate Guards Captain. What it looks like you are looking at is what
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 1, 2002
        On Sun, 1 Dec 2002, Dave Jones wrote:

        > Kagetaka is the name I have chosen,I have found a Kagetake that was
        > from the Asakura Clan that was Overan by Oda Nobunaga in 1573.I would
        > hoping the Title would roughly translate to Kage(Shadow)- taka(hawk)

        'Title' is usually used for something like 'Lord', 'Minister of the
        Right', or 'Left Gate Guards' Captain.' What it looks like you are
        looking at is what is called the 'nanori', the name by which your deeds
        would be known.

        > or Hawk from the Shadows.My character would have been from the Nosaka

        By character, you mean persona? Just some vocabulary differences to try
        and get us all speaking on the same level.

        > Mountains in the Omi region.He probably would have been a Asakura
        > Clan Vasal but as Oda has defeated them he is Either Ronin or a Oda
        > Vasal.I have thought up some Names but I am not sure if these are
        > correct or even offensive.

        I don't notice anything offensive right off the bat. I would really
        suggest looking at the books Solveig pointed out. I'm not sure if this is
        one of the sources that Solveig was pointing out but you might look here:
        http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/Miscellany/Miscellany.html

        Generally, 'Shadow Hawk' does not seem to be the type of name I would
        expect to see--it sounds about as fanciful as it does in English.
        However, there are other 'taka' kanji to choose from such as 'high' or
        'filial'. The only problem is that I am unsure of the implications of
        Kage+ any other choice, and what it could best be used with.

        > Nosaka-no-Kagetaka(Shadow Hawk from Nosaka?)
        > Omi-no-Kagetaka (Shadow hawk from Omi Region)?
        > Asakura-Nosaka-No-Kagetaka(Shadow Hawk fom the Nosaka Mountains of
        > the Asakura Clan)?

        Are you thinking of having all of these, or are you looking to pick one?
        It would be quite possible to have several different 'names', especially
        when the name is more of a descriptor than a fixed 'name' like we think of
        it (for instance, if we here 'Susan Little' today we don't go looking for
        a smaller person. Likewise, if we hear 'Johnson' we don't go looking for
        someone whose father is named 'John').

        -Ii
      • Dave Jones
        ... was ... would ... (hawk) ... deeds ... Nosaka ... to try ... Oda ... really ... this is ... would ... or ... of ... of ... one? ... especially ... think of
        Message 3 of 5 , Dec 3, 2002
          --- In sca-jml@y..., Ii Saburou <logan@m...> wrote:
          > On Sun, 1 Dec 2002, Dave Jones wrote:
          >
          > > Kagetaka is the name I have chosen,I have found a Kagetake that
          was
          > > from the Asakura Clan that was Overan by Oda Nobunaga in 1573.I
          would
          > > hoping the Title would roughly translate to Kage(Shadow)- taka
          (hawk)
          >
          > 'Title' is usually used for something like 'Lord', 'Minister of the
          > Right', or 'Left Gate Guards' Captain.' What it looks like you are
          > looking at is what is called the 'nanori', the name by which your
          deeds
          > would be known.
          >
          > > or Hawk from the Shadows.My character would have been from the
          Nosaka
          >
          > By character, you mean persona? Just some vocabulary differences
          to try
          > and get us all speaking on the same level.
          >
          > > Mountains in the Omi region.He probably would have been a Asakura
          > > Clan Vasal but as Oda has defeated them he is Either Ronin or a
          Oda
          > > Vasal.I have thought up some Names but I am not sure if these are
          > > correct or even offensive.
          >
          > I don't notice anything offensive right off the bat. I would
          really
          > suggest looking at the books Solveig pointed out. I'm not sure if
          this is
          > one of the sources that Solveig was pointing out but you might look
          here:
          > http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/Miscellany/Miscellany.html
          >
          > Generally, 'Shadow Hawk' does not seem to be the type of name I
          would
          > expect to see--it sounds about as fanciful as it does in English.
          > However, there are other 'taka' kanji to choose from such as 'high'
          or
          > 'filial'. The only problem is that I am unsure of the implications
          of
          > Kage+ any other choice, and what it could best be used with.
          >
          > > Nosaka-no-Kagetaka(Shadow Hawk from Nosaka?)
          > > Omi-no-Kagetaka (Shadow hawk from Omi Region)?
          > > Asakura-Nosaka-No-Kagetaka(Shadow Hawk fom the Nosaka Mountains
          of
          > > the Asakura Clan)?
          >
          > Are you thinking of having all of these, or are you looking to pick
          one?
          > It would be quite possible to have several different 'names',
          especially
          > when the name is more of a descriptor than a fixed 'name' like we
          think of
          > it (for instance, if we here 'Susan Little' today we don't go
          looking for
          > a smaller person. Likewise, if we hear 'Johnson' we don't go
          looking for
          > someone whose father is named 'John').
          >
          > -Ii


          Wow thanks for the help looks like I still have much to learn about
          putting together a personna.I am glad I have found all you helpful
          people.
        • makiwara_no_yetsuko
          ... May I suggest you have a look at the writings of Cariadoc of the Bow? While his chosen area of interest is Middle Eastern, he brings up a lot of excellent
          Message 4 of 5 , Dec 3, 2002
            --- In sca-jml@y..., "Dave Jones" <irish_65@y...> wrote:
            > Wow thanks for the help looks like I still have much to learn about
            > putting together a personna.I am glad I have found all you helpful
            > people.

            May I suggest you have a look at the writings of Cariadoc of the Bow?
            While his chosen area of interest is Middle Eastern, he brings up a
            lot of excellent ideas which may be of help:
            http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/miscellany_pdf/Articles_about_P
            ersona.pdf

            Makiwara
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